How should I approach someone who is a chronic thief about their problem?

[SteveFromYellowstone]

Seconded.

Hate to seem cruel, but you can't save people who don't want saving. Once opiates are involved, you can't do anything anymore.

All they'll do is drag you into their pit.

~Bang

I had an issue with opiates. Well, not an issue, but a huge problem. They controlled my life. I did a lot of things I'm not proud of, but my whole life up until I was introduced to opiates, I had been an A+ student and model citizen. Part of it was me being naive, but a lot of it was me having issues that I didnt want to deal with so I masked them instead. It eventually got to the point where it was too difficult to control and I asked for help. The LAST thing I needed to get through that 2 year period in my life was to have everyone tell me to kick rocks and abandon me. That would have drove me even deeper into what I was doing because I would have no reason to want to get better anymore. It's easy for a lot of you to sit behind your computers and tell the OP to tell his friend to **** off. All addicts aren't beyond saving. They need the right combination of love and support. Don't give her money, if you ever need to buy something for her do it yourself. If she is already going down a dark path, how would all her friends and family abandoning her encourage her to change her ways? The way an addict copes with that stress is to do more of whatever drug to numb their minds.

[DeaconTheVillain]

I would like to think that sitting in jail with a bond that no one is willing to pay would be her "rock bottom," but, i've seen it take others a lot more before they really decide to stop

[stevenaa]

I would like to think that sitting in jail with a bond that no one is willing to pay would be her "rock bottom," but, i've seen it take others a lot more before they really decide to stop

That could just be a bump in the road for her. It's impossible to know what someones rock bottom is. Be there for her as a friend. Anything more is a disaster waiting to happen. Maybe she'll figure it out. If not, at some point you just may have to turn away and leave her to her own devices. Don't let yourself get any more emotionally involved. That can only end badly.

[zoony]

I had an issue with opiates. Well, not an issue, but a huge problem. They controlled my life. I did a lot of things I'm not proud of, but my whole life up until I was introduced to opiates, I had been an A+ student and model citizen. Part of it was me being naive, but a lot of it was me having issues that I didnt want to deal with so I masked them instead. It eventually got to the point where it was too difficult to control and I asked for help. The LAST thing I needed to get through that 2 year period in my life was to have everyone tell me to kick rocks and abandon me. That would have drove me even deeper into what I was doing because I would have no reason to want to get better anymore. It's easy for a lot of you to sit behind your computers and tell the OP to tell his friend to **** off. All addicts aren't beyond saving. They need the right combination of love and support. Don't give her money, if you ever need to buy something for her do it yourself. If she is already going down a dark path, how would all her friends and family abandoning her encourage her to change her ways? The way an addict copes with that stress is to do more of whatever drug to numb their minds.

I see. She has the drug problem, thieving issues, and sociopathic tendencies. It's up to the OP to risk his well being to save her.

How many lives will she destroy before she's saved? Is her well being more valuable than everyone she will **** over? What about the guy who was robbed and beaten? Think he did the right thing associating with her?

. Spare us the sermon

On another note, good for you on your sobriety.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I see. She has the drug problem, thieving issues, and sociopathic tendencies. It's up to the OP to risk his well being to save her.

How many lives will she destroy before she's saved? Is her well being more valuable than everyone she will **** over? What about the guy who was robbed and beaten? Think he did the right thing associating with her?

. Spare us the sermon

On another note, good for you on your sobriety.

That was the zooniest post ever. If you could have somehow worked in something about food, we could have shut down the site.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I could type for hours about the entire dramatic situation, but basically someone who is close to me is now in jail for the third time related to robbery/theft.

She was caught stealing clothes from a store on Tuesday and people are so fet up with her behavior (she has more issues than stealing) that no one is gonna bail her out. I was going to try and visit her tomorrow if I can (she hasn't been sentenced yet and I don't know how long they will keep her before letting her go) and trying to talk some sense into her and also just to see where she is at mentally, if she has finally owned up to the fact that she has a huge problem with stealing.

I looked up Kleptomania, and it seems that she doesn't really fit this. I say that only because of the fact that it seems most kelptos steal things that are insignificant (pens, change, keytags etc) while she is stealing for personal gain.

She is a sweet girl when you meet her, but she certainly has a sneaky/shady side that no one would have ever guessed. She has been in my house a lot and I haven't noticed anything stolen/missing so that is good.

But this is the 2nd time in a year she has been in jail for stealing from Mall stores and another incident back in 2008 involved her and another girl setting up and NFL player who was pistol whipped and robbed. She got like conspiracy to commit credit card fraud or something like that. I am positive that she was merely there to benefit and had no part in planning this incident.

I want to help her. Is she help able? I know she needs to realize the problem herself first.

FWIW, I think jail is good for her and I will absolutely not be bailing her out.

Steal her toothbrush right in front of her face, and then when she questions her about it deny, deny deny.

[LadySkinsFan]

Well, I disagree.

I am not putting the her mess on my shoulders and she is going to sit there until the state decides she is done. She isn't getting any money from me. I told her that I would write her and visit her if she wanted me to.

Did I think about getting her out in hopes that she would have learned after a month? Absolutely. But now that I have made this decision, I know it is the right one. At least its best for me and what she does from here on out is up to her.

Writing and visiting is a good combination for letting this girl know that you do support her. I wish you both good luck as you work through this situation.

[DeaconTheVillain]

I suppose I will give an update to this insane "relationship" I have with this women.

I gotta say that LadySkinsFan seems to consistently give good advice on here and seems to have a great understanding. Not just in this thread, but in many posts i've read.

Anyway, I suppose I'll just touch on what im going through, although I could make a thread that doesn't have enough bandwidth. Basically, I got involved with someone who was captivating to me. She really seemed to love me and I felt so comfortable around her. Never felt like that with anyone else (im in my 20's) She was so interested in what I like, what my hobbies are, etc and wanted me to teach her to play poker as that is what I was doing for $$. Slowly I find out that her past is one that is spotty in places she lives, jobs she held, and arrests. No worries. I love being with her and she makes me feel so good about myself. And that stuff is in the past right? Soon into the relationship I notice her texting lots of guys including ex bfs and always being flirtatious with them. I tell her that it needs to stop. She agrees. It keeps happening and I still love her and decide its no big deal cuz that is how she is. Soon after she gets arrested for shoplifting....And like thousands of dollars worth from the mall. I google her name and see warrants in FL and PA. Time to run, right? Of course it is, but I don't. She admits that she has had a shady past but blames drug use and says she has impulsive tendencies. She considers herself, sweet, caring, and says she has a big heart. To which I agree, because the person who did this stuff is not who I know.

Slowly her mask came off...It came off when she sensed that I was hers and had really fallen for her. She was irritable, angry, and would go off on me. I've seen her treat wal-mart clerks with disrespect because there were not more registers open and a gas attendent as her to move because she was in a fire zone to which she made fun of his job and refused to move. I'm a calm and laid back guy by nature, but this women would have me screaming and yelling. One time, I really went off and basically told her who she was. It left her in tears and me feeling sorry for her. She was not rational at all. I had been told by her sister that she had been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I knew about it, but had never really seen what it can do to someone who is involved with a person who has the disorder (and refuses to really address it, because they don't think they are the problem, unlike WR Brandon Marshall and I applaud him for working on himself)

Now I never get that nice sweet girl, I caught her prostituting herself (we had broken up, but still talked. The whole situation was weird) and I was disgusted. This girl has more issues than a magazine. I keep in touch with her because she has no real friends, and I still care for her. That should tell you two things

1. I must have some co-dependency issues I was unaware of.

2. The grip that a borderline can have on you is quit simply amazing.

To be honest, this women has me scared. I'm scared she will go back to jail, kill herself (she has had two attempts in the past 5 years), or try to harm me. False police reports are no big deal as she has done one before (not against me, but against someone for sex assault in an attempt to not get caught in a lie to me)

I'm a sick person. This women has made me realize that. I'm in recovery for drug and alcohol abuse/dependence and doing ok. I am clearly not were I wanted to be in my late 20s. I have a degree from a good university and am striving to become a better person. I'm getting therapy for addiction and well, trying to understand how this women was able to have such a hold on me and still does. I would have NEVER put up with some of the things she does/did with another person. There is no likelyhood of a relationship with me ever again because she simply isn't capable of being trusted (and I tried), any respect she showed was likely an act to gain something.

Part of me wants to hold up a verbal mirror to herself and just let her have it. Part of me wants to hold her and love her. She is stunning. Simply beautiful, but really lacks something inside. She is a broken person and I feel sorry for her, but she has really, really hurt me. And now, I fear the wrath of cutting her off and having no contact. But I got a pair and will make sure I protect myself. Its going to take a while to heal from this.

Just being real....on a football message board. lol

---------- Post added October-29th-2012 at 10:49 PM ----------

I will never understand what having borderline personality feels like, but I know what its like to be caught with someone. This relationship is and was very sick from the start. I knew it on an intellectual level. But, something in me craves chaos. Its just the way I am. But what this women did to me emotionally was something I never experienced. And I let it happen because I was hoping the girl I feel for was real. It was not, I feel for a persona that she has perfected to probably everyone she gets intimate with until she is comfortable.

[Win4us]

DTV....FWIW i would say that there's some people who just cannot be helped. I know how you feel in wanting to be that friend and put her on the right track. She may be able to straighten out but in my experience it usually doesn't work. Hope you can come to a decision that puts you at ease as well. Good luck

[DeaconTheVillain]

I came across this and it is soo damned true:

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm

Love: The Vulnerable Seducer Phase

At first, a Borderline female may appear sweet, shy, vulnerable and "ambivalently in need of being rescued"; looking for her Knight in Shining Armor.

In the beginning, you will feel a rapidly accelerating sense of compassion because she is a master at portraying herself as she "victim of love" and you are saving her. But listen closely to how she sees herself as a victim. As her peculiar emotional invasion advances upon you, you will hear how no one understands her - except you. Other people have been "insensitive." She has been betrayed, just when she starts trusting people. But there is something "special" about you, because "you really seem to know her."

It is this intense way she has of bearing down on you emotionally that can feel very seductive. You will feel elevated, adored, idealized - almost worshiped, maybe even to the level of being uncomfortable. And you will feel that way quickly. It may seem like a great deal has happened between the two of you in a short period of time, because conversation is intense, her attention, and her eyes are so deeply focused on you.

Here is a woman who may look like a dream come true. She not only seems to make you the center of her attention, but she even craves listening to your opinions, thoughts and ideas. It will seem like you have really found your heart's desire.

Like many things that seems too good to be true, this is. This is borderline personality disorder.

It will all seem so real because it is real in her mind. But what is in her mind it is not what you perceive to be happening.

Love: The Clinger Phase

Once she has successfully candied her hook with your adoration, she will weld it into place by “reeling in” your attention and concern. Her intense interest in you will subtly transform over time. She still appears to be interested in you, but no longer in what you are interested in. Her interest becomes your exclusive interest in her. This is when you start to notice “something”. Your thoughts, feelings and ideas fascinate her, but more so when they focus on her. You can tell when this happens because you can feel her "perk-up" emotionally whenever your attention focuses upon her feelings and issues. Those moments can emotionally hook your compassion more deeply into her, because that is when she will treat you well - tenderly.

It’s often here, you begin to confuse your empathy with love, and you believe you're in love with her. Especially if your instinct is strong and rescuing is at the heart of your "code." Following that code results in the most common excuse I hear as a therapist, as to why many men stay with borderline women, ".... But I love her!" Adult love is built on mutual interest, care and respect - not on one-way emotional rescues. And mothering is for kids. Not grown men.

But, if like King Priam, you do fall prey to this Trojan Horse and let her inside your city gates, the first Berserker to leave the horse will be the devious Clinger. A master at strengthening her control through empathy, she is brilliant at eliciting sympathy and identifying those most likely to provide it-like the steady-tempered and tenderhearted.

The world ails her. Physical complaints are common. Her back hurts. Her head aches. Peculiar pains of all sorts come and go like invisible, malignant companions. If you track their appearance, though, you may see a pattern of occurrence connected to the waning or waxing of your attentions. Her complaints are ways of saying, "don't leave me. Save me!" And Her maladies are not simply physical. Her feelings ail her too.

She is depressed or anxious, detached and indifferent or vulnerable and hypersensitive. She can swing from elated agitation to mournful gloom at the blink of an eye. Watching the erratic changes in her moods is like tracking the needle on a Richter-scale chart at the site of an active volcano, and you never know which flick of the needle will predict the big explosion.

But after every emotional Vesuvius she pleads for your mercy. And if she has imbedded her guilt-hooks deep enough into your conscientious nature, you will stay around and continue tracking this volcanic earthquake, caught in the illusion that you can discover how to stop Vesuvius before she blows again. But, in reality, staying around this cauldron of emotional unpredictability is pointless. Every effort to understand or help this type of woman is an excruciatingly pointless exercise in emotional rescue.

It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional - rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping her, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference. It's like pouring the best of your self into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you'll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory "event horizon." But before that happens, other signs will reveal her true colors.

Sex will be incredible. She will be instinctually tuned in to reading your needs. It will seem wonderful - for a while.

The intensity of her erotic passion can sweep you away, but her motive is double-edged. One side of it comes from the instinctually built-in, turbulent emotionality of her disorder. Intensity is her trump-card.

But the other side of her is driven by an equally instinctually and concentrated need to control you. The sexual experiences, while imposing, are motivated from a desire to dominate you, not please you. Her erotic intensity will be there in a cunning way tailored so you will not readily perceive it.

“I love you” means – “I need you to love me”. “That was the best ever for me” means – tell me “it was the best ever for you”. Show me that I have you.

Once a Borderline Controller has succeeded and is in control, the Hater appears. This hateful part of her may have emerged before, but you probably will not see it in full, acidic bloom until she feels she has achieved a firm hold on your conscience and compassion. But when that part makes it's first appearance, rage is how it breaks into your life.

What gives this rage its characteristically borderline flavor is that it is very difficult for someone witnessing it to know what triggered it in reality. But that is its primary identifying clue: the actual rage-trigger is difficult for you to see. But in the Borderline's mind it always seems to be very clear. To her, there is always a cause. And the cause is always you. Whether it is the tone of your voice, how you think, how you feel, dress, move or breathe - or "the way you're looking at me," - she will always justify her rage by blaming you for "having to hurt her."

Rage reactions are also unpredictable and unexpected. They happen when you least expect it. And they can become extremely dangerous. It all serves to break you down over time. Your self esteem melts away. You change and alter your behavior in hopes of returning to the “Clinger Stage”. And periodically you will, but only to cycle back to the hater when you least expect it, possibly on her birthday, or your anniversary.

Borderline Personality Disorder is a serious mental illness.

[brandymac27]

Wow. I understand you have feelings for her and want to help her, but sometimes you just have to let people go-especially considering the things you've dealt with in your past (substance abuse). The very last thing you want to do is put yourself at risk, and in my personal opinion, I think that contact with her would/could put you in a position to either relapse or digress with any kind of treatment you've had in your own recovery.

You have to start thinking about yourself. As someone else said, you can't help everyone-especially if they don't want to be helped (or in this situation don't feel like they need help (I've heard BPD can be a very difficult illness to treat)).

So, at the very least, I would really avoid contact with her (considering how strong your feelings are for her, it could be easy to get sucked back into some kind of relationship with her) and focus on you. Try to understand that the best thing for you at this point in your life is to move on, and do everything you can to be healthy and happy again.

Stay with your treatment program, discuss the situation with a therapist if possible, and stay focused on what's best for you. Good luck to you!