NY Daily News - Psychiatrist retracts infamous study claiming gay people can turn straight through therapy

[Predicto]

The psychiatrist behind a prominent 2001 study declaring people can go from gay to straight has retracted his original claims.

Although the research is still cited by anti-gay organizations as proof that so-called ex-gay therapy works to change someone's sexual orientation, the study has endured scientific criticism for years.

Now, Robert Spitzer, who led the research, told American Prospect that he wants to publish a retraction.

"In retrospect, I have to admit I think the critiques are largely correct," Spitzer said. "The findings can be considered evidence for what those who have undergone ex-gay therapy say about it, but nothing more."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/psychiatrist-retracts-infamous-study-claiming-gay-people-turn-straight-therapy-article-1.1060226#ixzz1rwWBq8gt

Interesting. I wonder if Michele Bachman's husband will have to find a new profession.

[Thiebear]

Has to be genetic: I apparently am genetically pushed towards secretaries that have no income and horrible mothers.

Question: If you don't have sex for 10 years are you gay or straight or neither?

[twa]

so does the study then show the ones that want to can be cured?

I do agree extrapolating the results to those no desiring it was a reach

they will probably come out with a pill soon anyway

[JimboDaMan]

so does the study then show the ones that want to can be cured?

I do agree extrapolating the results to those no desiring it was a reach

they will probably come out with a pill soon anyway

Cured? Of finding those of the same gender to be sexually attractive? Probably works a well as it would changing your orientation. I mean, if you really wanted to switch away from women.

[Predicto]

so does the study then show the ones that want to can be cured?

You are correct. Self-loathing is a powerful psychological force.

[Teller]

Shocker.

I've always thought the people who think people "choose" to be gay are idiots. I don't recall choosing to be straight. Why would it be different for homosexuals? And who in the name of God would elect a lifestyle that guarantees fewer rights?

But then, y'all know what they say about common sense. Ain't so common.

[LadySkinsFan]

Well, I tried the Great Heterosexual Experiment for about 15 years and it didn't change my orientation.

[JMS]

I don't think this was just a 2001 study. This was a long standing belief inside the Psychiatry dating back to Freud.. I also remember reading about the position in the Psychiatric community in the early 1970's.

I think most people have considered this BS for many decades.

[Predicto]

I don't think this was just a 2001 study. This was a long standing belief inside the Psychiatry dating back to Freud.. I also remember reading about the position in the Psychiatric community in the early 1970's.

I think most people have considered this BS for many decades.

Correct. It was an assumption in the early psychiatric community. Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness. Then, people noticed that there was no scientific evidence to support that, so the mental illness classification was dropped.

Then, this study came out purporting to show that gays could be "cured," and it got a hell of a lot of attention.

Now it is debunked. And here we are.

[twa]

You are correct. Self-loathing is a powerful psychological force.

Indeed, and changes behavior

A wise old man once told me that when something(smoking,in that instance,but a universal theme with him) becomes a sin to you you will quit.

He was wise enough to leave it up to me if that will ever occur.

[Predicto]

Indeed, and changes behavior

A wise old man once told me that when something(smoking,in that instance,but a universal theme with him) becomes a sin to you you will quit.

He was wise enough to leave it up to me if that will ever occur.

Of course, as any "cured" alcoholic can tell you, you may stop drinking, you may never never touch another drop, but you are still an alcoholic and you will be one for the rest of your life.

And a gay person can deny his or her reality, and never again indulge in sexual acts with another person of the same sex, that is their choice to make. But they are still the same person they always were at the core.

[DCSaints_fan]

Well, I tried the Great Heterosexual Experiment for about 15 years and it didn't change my orientation.

This is something I never quite understand... and this is no offense to you. It seems like "orientation" means attracted to men, or women. (or possibly both). I don't understand how you can "experiment" with being hetero/homosexual. You either find (at least) men/women attractive, and find intercourse with them appealing, or you don't.

[twa]

But they are still the same person they always were at the core.

Does the core matter or the externals?

You decide

[Predicto]

This is something I never quite understand... and this is no offense to you. It seems like "orientation" means attracted to men, or women. (or possibly both). I don't understand how you can "experiment" with being hetero/homosexual. You either find (at least) men/women attractive, and find intercourse with them appealing, or you don't.

Sexuality is a spectrum, not an either/or choice.

Plus, societal pressure and the need to conform can make people deny reality for a long time. Just ask KoolBlue13 about his dad.

---------- Post added April-13th-2012 at 11:59 AM ----------

Does the core matter or the externals?

You decide

Well, to me the core matters if you are claiming that something is a "disorder" that can be "cured."

To some, I guess it is all about the externals.

[JMS]

Of course, as any "cured" alcoholic can tell you, you may stop drinking, you may never never touch another drop, but you are still an alcoholic and you will be one for the rest of your life.

And a gay person can deny his or her reality, and never again indulge in sexual acts with another person of the same sex, that is their choice to make. But they are still the same person they always were at the core.

And you likely wouldn't be a better person too. Think of it this way.. If you couldn't pursue ladies but had to remain celibate or go out with dudes.. Would you be happier, better adjusted, or develop an uncontrolable twitch ?

---------- Post added April-13th-2012 at 03:20 PM ----------

This is something I never quite understand... and this is no offense to you. It seems like "orientation" means attracted to men, or women. (or possibly both). I don't understand how you can "experiment" with being hetero/homosexual. You either find (at least) men/women attractive, and find intercourse with them appealing, or you don't.

I personally think it's a sliding scale. You've got folks who ae solidly on one side or the other and folks who can switch back and forth. Least that's seems to be the case. Folks who form opinions on the subject generally take the slant of which demographic they fall into and which personal choice they've made with their attractions.

---------- Post added April-13th-2012 at 03:23 PM ----------

Indeed, and changes behavior

A wise old man once told me that when something(smoking,in that instance,but a universal theme with him) becomes a sin to you you will quit.

He was wise enough to leave it up to me if that will ever occur.

I don't know about that... I think self loathing makes self loathing; I don't think it changes behaviors in many cases. If it did homosexuality would have been "cured" long ago. I mean it's been repressed for millennia hasn't it?

[mjah]

And who in the name of God would elect a lifestyle that guarantees fewer rights?

Well, it won't guarantee fewer rights forever.

And then people will be choosing to be gay all over the place! Nooooooooooooo!

Agreed -- it's incredible that some folks still think it's simply a choice. Anymore, I think a lot of them just claim to believe that because they know it pushes buttons.

[JimboDaMan]

I don't know about that... I think self loathing makes self loathing; I don't think it changes behaviors in many cases. If it did homosexuality would have been "cured" long ago. I mean it's been repressed for millennia hasn't it?

Guy I knew in high school killed himself as a young adult, under circumstances that made it clear he could not accept his own gay urges. He and his brother had always been vocally anti-homosexual. I hadn't seen him for a couple years, and even as kids I never encouraged his gay-bashing, but it always bothered me to think of the inner torment and terror he must have lived with. Guess he managed to find a "cure", the only one guaranteed to work.

[Bliz]

Of course, as any "cured" alcoholic can tell you, you may stop drinking, you may never never touch another drop, but you are still an alcoholic and you will be one for the rest of your life.

And a gay person can deny his or her reality, and never again indulge in sexual acts with another person of the same sex, that is their choice to make. But they are still the same person they always were at the core.

Great analogy. I've never heard that one before, but I intend to steal it in the future

Well, it won't guarantee fewer rights forever.

And then people will be choosing to be gay all over the place! Nooooooooooooo!

Agreed -- it's incredible that some folks still think it's simply a choice. Anymore, I think a lot of them just claim to believe that because they know it pushes buttons.

Surely you're not referring to anyone in this thread!

Does the core matter or the externals?

You decide

If you believe homosexuality is a sin and you make a choice to refrain from engaging in it even though you're still attracted to members of the same sex, then arguably, in G-d's eyes, the externals are what matter.* But you're still gay. And definitely not "cured"

* I'll leave that discussion to others who are better versed on the subject. Maybe it's kinda like coveting your neighbor's possessions, but not stealing from them. Still a sin, but not "as bad"?

[twa]

If you believe homosexuality is a sin and you make a choice to refrain from engaging in it even though you're still attracted to members of the same sex, then arguably, in G-d's eyes, the externals are what matter.* But you're still gay. And definitely not "cured"

* I'll leave that discussion to others who are better versed on the subject. Maybe it's kinda like coveting your neighbor's possessions, but not stealing from them. Still a sin, but not "as bad"?

If you are not symptomatic do you have the disease?

You choose in life....whether it is to follow your core or externals is entirely in your hands.

If you are self loathing it is because you choose to be....just as LSF chose to try to live straight(while loathing it )

No one can make you miserable quite like yourself.

---------- Post added April-13th-2012 at 03:56 PM ----------

If you believe homosexuality is a sin and you make a choice to refrain from engaging in it even though you're still attracted to members of the same sex, then arguably, in G-d's eyes, the externals are what matter.* But you're still gay. And definitely not "cured"

* I'll leave that discussion to others who are better versed on the subject. Maybe it's kinda like coveting your neighbor's possessions, but not stealing from them. Still a sin, but not "as bad"?

If you are not symptomatic do you have the disease?

You choose in life....whether it is to follow your core or externals is entirely in your hands.

If you are self loathing it is because you choose to be....just as LSF chose to try to live straight(while loathing it )

No one can make you miserable quite like yourself.

[LadySkinsFan]

This is something I never quite understand... and this is no offense to you. It seems like "orientation" means attracted to men, or women. (or possibly both). I don't understand how you can "experiment" with being hetero/homosexual. You either find (at least) men/women attractive, and find intercourse with them appealing, or you don't.

I call it the "the Great Heterosexual Experiment" for several reasons. First, family and society were telling me that being a lesbian was dirty, nasty and wrong. Second, so many men think that lesbians just haven't met the right man yet and that they would be the one to prove that I really wanted to be with men. They were ALL wrong. Third, it's a nicer way of saying that I tried my damnest to be straight instead of saying that having sex with men made me literally throw up.

I was attracted to girls/women since about 4 years old. Since I was born in 1951, you might imagine what having those thoughts wrought in my life, see First above. I had crushes on girls/women (age appropriate) for all of my life and only started to live my truth after my daughter was born and I decided I wasn't going to live a lie anymore. So now I've lived my truth for more than half my life (a couple of years longer than you've been alive) and I can't tell you how freeing it's been and how rewarding. Maybe sorta how you feel about your life.

So, it was an "experiment" to please everyone else, but I always knew who I was.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

If you are not symptomatic do you have the disease?

I don't think you quite understand what the "symptoms" of homosexuality are. Here's a hint: NONE of them are external.

[Thiebear]

I totally believe its a choice: on the who what when and where.

To be cured though is weird: Cured of what? making personal choices base on what you feel

To say its genetic is to say there is a chromosone(sp) that is different.

To say its a choice is to say thats what you've decided you want.

[LadySkinsFan]

I totally believe its a choice: on the who what when and where.

To be cured though is weird: Cured of what? making personal choices base on what you feel

To say its genetic is to say there is a chromosone(sp) that is different.

To say its a choice is to say thats what you've decided you want.

You can believe what you want. However, how do you explain that at 4 years old and all throughout my life I've wanted relationships and sex with girls/women? How do you explain that you always wanted to have relationships and sex with girls/women? When did you choose to be heterosexual and not homosexual?

[JimboDaMan]

I totally believe its a choice: on the who what when and where.

To be cured though is weird: Cured of what? making personal choices base on what you feel

To say its genetic is to say there is a chromosone(sp) that is different.

To say its a choice is to say thats what you've decided you want.

Obviously having sex with members of the same sex is a choice. Are you saying you believe finding members of the same sex to be sexually attractive is a conscious choice?

[Renegade7]

You can't talk somebody out of their genetic makeup. Which begs the question: Are we going to see someone actually attempt to "cure" homosexuality via hormone treatment or genetic research???