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January 16, 2012 Republican Presidential Primary Debate (On Fox News Channel)

visionary

By visionary
in The Tailgate

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Unforgiven

Unforgiven

Posted
Posted
Paul got great marks on that Fox News chart. Nice.

Well it's if you think he answered the questions or dodged them. I don't think anyone really accused Ron Paul of dodging on the issues, his problem is his stances on a lot of issues. He has some really good ideas on some things but then totally alienates the majority on the others, which will prevent him from ever getting a nomination.

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LadySkinsFan

LadySkinsFan

Posted
Posted

All of you that support union busting and right to work laws do realize that you owe your working life to the unions, right? Without them there would be no OSHA, no paid vacations or holidays, no pensions or 401Ks and all the rest. You do know the history of the union movement here in America, right?

---------- Post added January-16th-2012 at 11:11 PM ----------

It wouldn't shock me to see the manipulated unemployment rate be 7.1% on election. day. ;)

It shocks me every day when corporations outsource jobs out of the United States. I think we should tax those corporations for every single job they outsource and we should put an import tariff on every good brought into the United States that was produced by foreign workers. It used to be called balance of trade instead of free market.

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NoVaO

NoVaO

Posted
Posted
May be in the minority, but I don't think by much

That's also a poll from November. His numbers have climbed since then. That poll has his approval rating at 44-53, while a poll out today from the same company has approval-disapproval at 48-48. Thus I wouldn't be surprised if those honest and trustworthy numbers are even higher than 57%.

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Unforgiven

Unforgiven

Posted
Posted
May be in the minority, but I don't think by much

You removed the link but the stat they quoted was viewed as a strength and not a weakness.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/anger-at-government-hits-a-new-peak-marking-battle-lines-in-the-2012-election/

"In addition to more durability in his base in these partisan times, Obama also benefits from comparative strength in his personal ratings. Fifty-seven percent of Americans see him as honest and trustworthy; his immediate predecessor fell as low as 40 percent on that score."

I think if you're a national politician the majority of Americans view you as honest and trustworthy you're doing really good, because most people would never attach "honest and trustworthy" to any politician. :)

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Wrong Direction

Wrong Direction

Posted
Posted

W's personal favorability was always pretty positive, IIRC.

Anyone who's chalking up this election as a victory for Obama or his opponent either doesn't understand things or doesn't want to, or both. 11 months is a very long time in politics.

---------- Post added January-16th-2012 at 11:23 PM ----------

I missed most of it, but would anyone have noticed if Mitt Romney was replaced by a life-sized cardboard cutout of Mitt Romney?

I thought he did really well again. Newt pretty much nailed this debate, but Mitt definitely did well. Paul really got tripped up on the int'l law/kill Bin Laden question. Santorum was fine, but not moving enough, IMO. Perry was really good, actually.

All of these guys have gotten much better. Plenty of red meat for the R audience.

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Guest Spearfeather

Guest Spearfeather

Posted
Posted
You removed the link but the stat they quoted was viewed as a strength and not a weakness.

:)

I'm just not convinced most Americans have that much trust and confidence in Obama.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/152051/Obama-Faces-Challenging-Election-Climate.aspx

Americans' current evaluation of the president's job performance, their satisfaction with the direction of the country, and their ratings of the economy are all on the lower end of what Gallup has found at or near the start of previous years when an incumbent president sought re-election

It's gonna be a tough " sell " for him.

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Guest Spearfeather

Guest Spearfeather

Posted
Posted
You removed the link but the stat they quoted was viewed as a strength and not a weakness.

Put it back.

Accidentally put it up twice, and then removed both.

The president’s approval rating is lower than his disapproval rating. In mid-December, Gallup had him “underwater” by eight points: 42 percent approval and 50 percent disapproval.

His current Gallup approval rating is the lowest ever for any incumbent president at this point in his first term.

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/01/04/politics/gloomy-poll-numbers-for-obama/

Thought the debate was entertaining if nothing else.

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Ken

Ken

Posted
Posted
There's no such thing as a credible real-time online poll with Ron Paul in it. If these things were indicators, he'd be running away with the nomination. His campaign obviously has a following that is heavily promoted online.

Fox news was quick to point that out. Anything positive Ron Paul quickly gets a qualifier.

How does Ron Paul not get 1 economic question?

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Ken

Ken

Posted
Posted
Yeah. There was a lot of time taken up in the attack-Mitt time, but this debate didn't have a ton for anyone on the economy.

Ok, I actually missed the debate, rewatching it now on the rebroadcast. Heard that was a slight on him.

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
Brian Schweitzer, Montana governor is a good sleeper candidate.

I first read that as "good sheeper candidate". :)

---------- Post added January-17th-2012 at 07:04 AM ----------

I'm not against means testing, but the case against it is that you turn Social Security into a welfare program.

It pretty much is. "Welfare" isn't the word I'd use to describe it, but "safety net" definitely fits.

The formula for calculating how much you get is tilted vastly in favor of people who've had low incomes all their lives.

(Which, I firmly believe, is the main reason why the GOP unanimously wants to kill it, and replace it with a system that's tilted in favor of people who've had high incomes.)

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Wrong Direction

Wrong Direction

Posted
Posted

(Which, I firmly believe, is the main reason why the GOP unanimously wants to kill it, and replace it with a system that's tilted in favor of people who've had high incomes.)

This is a shame. The GOP's proposed reforms would almost certainly favor the poor in a big way. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that the Chilean or Galveston systems are in any way worse for the poor?

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
This is a shame. The GOP's proposed reforms would almost certainly favor the poor in a big way. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that the Chilean or Galveston systems are in any way worse for the poor?

1) The GOP's proposed reforms aren't reforms. They're destruction.

2) My brother is a bum. He's pretty much never really supported himself, for his entire life. (He hasn't really been a "welfare queen". Instead, he's simply extorted money from his parents all his life. But the results are pretty much the same.)

He's never in his life earned more than $10K a year. Probably more than half of his life, he's earned zero. Overall, he's probably averaged around $3-4K a year, income.

According to the documents he gets annually from SS (they wind up getting sent to me, because he hasn't updated his address), when he retires, he's going to get a bit over $400/month, for the rest of his life.

Now, assuming a working life of 40 years, and an annual salary of $4K/year, and a SS tax rate of 6.5% (just to make the numbers kind of round), my brother, over his life, will have paid $10,400 to SS. (His employers will have paid an equal amount.)

Please, tell me about the Roth where you can pay $20K into it, and collect $5,000/year for life.

----------

Obviously, $400/month income isn't exactly living the good life. (Although, it's more than he's earned, over his life.) My brother is not going to be able to live on $400/month.

(No doubt when that time comes, he will fully expect me to throw money at him.)

I'm not saying "SS will pay my brother for a decent retirement".

I'm saying "SS will pay my brother far more than any privatization plan will".

---------- Post added January-17th-2012 at 11:11 AM ----------

“But don’t forget who it was that cut Medicare by $500 billion. And that was President Obama, to pay for Obamacare.” — Romney

Anybody got any kind of support for that claim? Or some kind of idea what he's talking about?

I suspect that it isn't true. But I wish I was sure.

(Actually, I'm going to head over to FactCheck, and see if they've got anything.)

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Kilmer17

Kilmer17

Posted
Posted

If Hillary runs, she wins in 2016. Should she not run, on the Democratic side Andrew Cuomo and Martin O'Malley are the two most credible names I've heard. Brian Schweitzer, Montana governor is a good sleeper candidate.

I love Brian Schweitzer.

Not only would I vote for him, I'd actively campaign for him.

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Tulane Skins Fan

Tulane Skins Fan

Posted
Posted
1Anybody got any kind of support for that claim? Or some kind of idea what he's talking about?

I suspect that it isn't true. But I wish I was sure.

(Actually, I'm going to head over to FactCheck, and see if they've got anything.)

Let me know too because I just don't get it. I could see this turning into one of two things though: 1) either Medicare became more efficient and saved money, or 2) payments to health care providers was reduced, which doesn't effect the benefits received at all.

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