Ask and ye shall recieve (Philly@SEA)

[Jesterhawk]

Several of you asked for it, and we soundly laid a whoopin on the Eagles for you.

You guys probably pay more attention to the Eagles than I do. What the heck is wrong with them? It's like they aren't even trying. Vince Young isn't an all pro, but he shouldn't be as bad as he was tonight. 4 picks for over 100 yards and a TD...something is backwards there. He almost performed as well with our DB's as our QB did with our Receivers.

Is Desean Jackson really crying that hard about his contract that he isn't even playing? He was dogging almost every play. I kind of agree with him, Philly should have taken care of their own guys before blowing their whole wad on Nnamdi. Thing is, he isn't making himself look very attractive to potential teams next year.

Eagles played like whiny little girls tonight, cheap shots, after the whistle stuff. Pretty pathetic. I hope you guys eat their lunch twice a year for the next decade.

[Coolio47]

What the heck is wrong with them?

They're the Eagles.

[FanboyOf91]

What the heck is wrong with them?

Andy Reid doesn't look at the clock or realize that he has an excellent running back.

[Hitman21ST]

Andy Reid doesn't look at the clock or realize that he has an excellent running back.

That was some of the most horrendous clock management at the end of the first half. They get a stop on third down, with over a minute to go, two time outs, and they don't use one to conserve the clock. If they had a minute to go from the 40 instead of 19 seconds, that could have been a completely different game.

[Stophovr6]

Whats wrong with them has been what was wrong with the Skins for so many years. Overpay a bunch of freeagents, and don't take care of the talent you drafted so that they leave you in disgust. Do this for a long enough time and you will find rebuilding to be quite the endeavour.

[ddub52]

Im pulling for them to win a few more and end up with a later pick, but Im glad they got dismantled tonight

[PokerPacker]

I guess they keep forgetting that LeSean McCoy is awesome.

[dockeryfan]

I started a thread about his situation in september.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?354399-Desean-Jackson-contract&highlight=desean

[jflow78]

Attention NFL Free Agents:

The new place to go to get paid for failure is Philadelphia.

(BTW, nice game Lynch, and thanks for not doing it to the Skins.)

[pointyfootball]

What's wrong with them? Let me list the ways, as an Eagles fan (not in any particular order):

1) Djackson has every right to be pissed about his contract. Hold out then, but don't join the team and let your teammates down by dogging it.

2) Castillo. Holy crap. Similar to last year, the players have checked out and never even bought in to his "system", whatever that is.

3) Weaknesses that I felt they had before the season are easily exploited by opposition. LB & S are putrid and there isn't a one of them that should return as a starter.

4) Vince Young. How was he drafted as high as he was? Seriously, he makes McNabb's accuracy look like Chad Pennington. For the guy who started the "Dream Team" talk, he has been godawful. Can't see him ever getting a starting gig.

5) Andy Reid. I like him, and even though I don't think he's going to win a SB, unless he gets a weak AFC opponent, I think he's better than a LOT of coaches out there. However, there is major disfunction on the team, and it starts with the coaches, which is his responsibility.

6) Front office. I don't think the spending spree was necessarily bad, just that in a year with no offseason they couldn't expect everything to gel, especially considering most of the new pieces were being put under a DC that is terrible. Lack of LB attention in offseason was huge mistake. Also, should have paid Jackson and McCoy.

I'll still watch their games because of one player: McCoy. He's a phenomenal talent that is a lot of fun to watch, maybe even better than Brian Westbrook.

And...btw...Seattle sucks too.

[SWO-tarious]

Whats wrong with them has been what was wrong with the Skins for so many years. Overpay a bunch of freeagents, and don't take care of the talent you drafted so that they leave you in disgust. Do this for a long enough time and you will find rebuilding to be quite the endeavour.

This and the fact that the Eagles are a ship without a rudder. Andy Reid's time in Philly has passed him by and apparently what he says is just white noise to his players. They are much more undisciplined than they have been in years past. I have nothing against Reid personally, but I wish that he would stick around for another year or two so the Eagles can assume the spot in the NFC East's cellar.

[pointyfootball]

Whats wrong with them has been what was wrong with the Skins for so many years. Overpay a bunch of freeagents, and don't take care of the talent you drafted so that they leave you in disgust. Do this for a long enough time and you will find rebuilding to be quite the endeavour.

Maybe, but only player they're not paying is Jackson. Probably b/c he wants top-5 WR money, and considering his injury history he isn't worth that. Also, that's not the reason they lead the league in turnovers, or the reason that defenders can't tackle. Turnovers, defensive coaching and lack of talent in the LB/S corps are the primary reason they're losing, IMO. And, when you lose, all the other stuff gets magnified.

[Riggo#44]

They followed the Vinny Cerrato model of team building. It never, ever works. Ever.

[pointyfootball]

This and the fact that the Eagles are a ship without a rudder. Andy Reid's time in Philly has passed him by and apparently what he says is just white noise to his players. They are much more undisciplined than they have been in years past. I have nothing against Reid personally, but I wish that he would stick around for another year or two so the Eagles can assume the spot in the NFC East's cellar.

Quite possible. He has definitely struggled with the loss of Johnson as DC, as he never probably even gave a moment's thought to defense before.

I have no problem with them being in the cellar this season, even though I'm not big on blowing off games to get a better draft pick. I'm hoping it will institute major change (even if AR's not gone). They really do need to approach it differently, maybe even "rebuild" by attempting to get a good QB in the draft.

---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 09:22 AM ----------

They followed the Vinny Cerrato model of team building. It never, ever works. Ever.

I don't believe that's why they are bad as I think most of their FAs have produced. They HAD to get DEs due to Graham's injury, so Babin/Jenkins weren't awful IMO and they have produced. VY, although questionable, was probably a good pickup as a backup, b/c you think "he's started, maybe he can play a couple of games in Vick's place. Ronnie Brown...he's a back up RB to the best RB in the league this year. NA has been the biggest flop, but that IMO is due more to Castillo than him, and no matter what, NA is still better than the option at RCB that they had last year.

[Riggo#44]

I don't believe that's why they are bad as I think most of their FAs have produced. They HAD to get DEs due to Graham's injury, so Babin/Jenkins weren't awful IMO and they have produced. VY, although questionable, was probably a good pickup as a backup, b/c you think "he's started, maybe he can play a couple of games in Vick's place. Ronnie Brown...he's a back up RB to the best RB in the league this year. NA has been the biggest flop, but that IMO is due more to Castillo than him, and no matter what, NA is still better than the option at RCB that they had last year.

It's not just FAs -- The Redskins signed a bunch of FAs on defense this year that have performed very well, and their defense has improved dramatically. It is getting unnecessary FAs while ignoring gaping holes. Was NA necessary? No, they already had Samules and DRC -- he was a luxury. They completely ignored their two biggest holes on defense: Safety and LB. They signed all the big names and everyone went gaga -- and it took the attention away from terrible LBs and S. Turning the defense over to Castillo was laughable.

Not to mention EVERYONE knew Vick was going to come back to earth -- except maybe ESPN.

This was a flawed team to begin with.

[pointyfootball]

It's not just FAs -- The Redskins signed a bunch of FAs on defense this year that have performed very well, and their defense has improved dramatically. It is getting unnecessary FAs while ignoring gaping holes. Was NA necessary? No, they already had Samules and DRC -- he was a luxury. They completely ignored their two biggest holes on defense: Safety and LB. They signed all the big names and everyone went gaga -- and it took the attention away from terrible LBs and S. Turning the defense over to Castillo was laughable.

Not to mention EVERYONE knew Vick was going to come back to earth -- except maybe ESPN.

This was a flawed team to begin with.

I agree with most of this. Redskins D has improved due to a real DC having a second year in the system. Eagles D was not very good last year with McDermott, and most likely would have been better this year (although still not good enough) if he had stayed on. Brand new DC plus lack of talent in areas you mention doomed them, along with Vick coming unglued.

[Warhead36]

The Eagles spent money at the wrong spots. They should have shored up their OL and gotten LB help. Instead they strengthened a secondary that was already decent and got a bunch of pass rushers that couldn't stop the run. That and they were relying on a QB that, after an amazing midseason stretch last year, was falling off pretty clearly at the end of last year.

[sideshow24]

What do you mean they should have taken care of their own? That little ***** is under contract. They already took care of him when they signed him.

[Jesterhawk]

And...btw...Seattle sucks too.

Yeah, I know. I watch the east-coast news too. Baltimore, the Giants and now the Eagles have soundly beaten themselves for our benefit. 3 times in one year. Who knew. Couldn't possibly be us.

[pjfootballer]

Cream Team?

Scream Team?

Ream Team?

4-8!! Bwaahahahaha!

[BeefJerky]

The epic failure of the eagles makes this season a little less painful. There is a whole lot of this these days in the city of brotherly love :anon:

[pointyfootball]

Yeah, I know. I watch the east-coast news too. Baltimore, the Giants and now the Eagles have soundly beaten themselves for our benefit. 3 times in one year. Who knew. Couldn't possibly be us.

Eagles were whipped last night, no doubt about it. But, do you really think the Hawks are a good team?

---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 12:28 PM ----------

The Eagles spent money at the wrong spots. They should have shored up their OL and gotten LB help. Instead they strengthened a secondary that was already decent and got a bunch of pass rushers that couldn't stop the run. That and they were relying on a QB that, after an amazing midseason stretch last year, was falling off pretty clearly at the end of last year.

I thought I remember looking to see who was available, and there really wasn't much. Of course anything @ the LB position would have helped, even a low-rated FA. Maybe AR was beaten up by a LB when he was a kid and to this day disdains the position. No idea.

[jflow78]

I agree with most of this. Redskins D has improved due to a real DC having a second year in the system. Eagles D was not very good last year with McDermott, and most likely would have been better this year (although still not good enough) if he had stayed on. Brand new DC plus lack of talent in areas you mention doomed them, along with Vick coming unglued.

I think this was the opposite of what they did when they went out and got TO in FA. When they did that, they were solid all the way around. They'd made smart decisions and really did need only one thing to get them over the hump, an pro-bowl WR. Now, TO actually didn't get them to the SB, which is a bit ironic, but perhaps it was because the team came out playing better, and the offense looked dangerous, that everyone gained confidence and once TO went down they believed enough in what they were doing that they didn't miss him much.

This year, they had gaping holes (OL, S, LB) and instead of doing what they needed to to solidify those spots, with working class guys, they went out and bought a bunch of high priced FAs they didn't necessarily need (and some that they did).

I honestly think, after watching the Skins do this for 10 years, that the blame only lies half with the superstar FAs that come in, and the rest is on everyone else on the team. If you're playing football, and you go out and get a guy that's the best, at whatever, then everyone on the team thinks, "wow, this year we're going to kill everyone" and the mental commitment to do the little things that make a big difference starts to wain. For instance, CB 3 or 4 has a free day on Monday after a win so what does he do:

A - go to the film room and facility and work on some things he knows he needs to change and can do by himself to improve his play AND the team's

B - think, "well, I'm not going to see the field even half the time I did last season, so what does it matter"

C - think, "well, we've got Nmadi, he's invincible, so why do I need to work harder, I'm not going to be playing against the opposing team's 2nd or 3rd WR like I did last year, and even I can hang with a number 4 or 5 WR.

I really think that's what happens most of the time (B & C), and it's not like these guys think consciously, "I can not work hard and we'll still win", but I think they start taking that one play off, or that one rep, or that one day, or whatever, because, "Hey, we've got Babin and Nmadi and FA and FA and FA, and they'll make up for it if I mess up this once, besides I've seen them take a play off when they get tired and they're fine". (Ignoring the fact that those players might occasionally take a play off and not pay for it because even when they "take a play off" they're still 100xs more talented and skilled than the average guy).

That's my theory anyway. That's why I think the Eagles, after going years getting lesser known FAs and maybe ONE big star (which doesn't seem to have the same effect as going and getting 3-4 big stars) they ignored their holes and thought that having that big FA class would make up for it, and like the Skins teams of the past, they're paying for it embarrassingly.

---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 01:46 PM ----------

The Eagles spent money at the wrong spots. They should have shored up their OL and gotten LB help. Instead they strengthened a secondary that was already decent and got a bunch of pass rushers that couldn't stop the run. That and they were relying on a QB that, after an amazing midseason stretch last year, was falling off pretty clearly at the end of last year.

I'm curious as to what you guys (ES Eagle's fans) think they'll do with Vick's contract now. Was it worth it (especially in the long run), or do you guys think it's going to hamper you during this next offseason?

I actually really like Andy Reid. If the Eagles weren't in the same division as the Skins I'd actually cheer for the guy. I do think he needs to learn clock management someday, but we've seen similar things with every Skins coach we've had in the last 10 years (Marty being the only exception).

[Jesterhawk]

Eagles were whipped last night, no doubt about it. But, do you really think the Hawks are a good team?

Aside from needing a bit more out of the QB position, I'd say so. We've already IR'd two of our starting Olinemen (maybe 3 later today thanks to a cheap shot) and are managing our best running performances of the year with backups. Tom Cable is installing an outstanding run blocking oline. We have IR'd our starting corner and his backup and still have a strong secondary. We IR'd our #1 receiver and watched Golden Tate emerge in his place last night, overall our receiving group is solid at worst. We have one of the best run stuffing front 4 in the league.

All of that with one of (if not THE) youngest teams in the NFL.

We need a new QB, a better backup RB, maybe a project WR, a pass rushing beast for obvious passing downs...some LB depth.

Yeah, I'd say we'll be ok. Pete Carroll has a vision and seeing it develop it looks pretty dang good.

---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 12:28 PM ----------

I thought I remember looking to see who was available, and there really wasn't much. Of course anything @ the LB position would have helped, even a low-rated FA. Maybe AR was beaten up by a LB when he was a kid and to this day disdains the position. No idea.

[penasquito]

I think this was the opposite of what they did when they went out and got TO in FA. When they did that, they were solid all the way around. They'd made smart decisions and really did need only one thing to get them over the hump, an pro-bowl WR. Now, TO actually didn't get them to the SB, which is a bit ironic, but perhaps it was because the team came out playing better, and the offense looked dangerous, that everyone gained confidence and once TO went down they believed enough in what they were doing that they didn't miss him much.

This year, they had gaping holes (OL, S, LB) and instead of doing what they needed to to solidify those spots, with working class guys, they went out and bought a bunch of high priced FAs they didn't necessarily need (and some that they did).

I honestly think, after watching the Skins do this for 10 years, that the blame only lies half with the superstar FAs that come in, and the rest is on everyone else on the team. If you're playing football, and you go out and get a guy that's the best, at whatever, then everyone on the team thinks, "wow, this year we're going to kill everyone" and the mental commitment to do the little things that make a big difference starts to wain. For instance, CB 3 or 4 has a free day on Monday after a win so what does he do:

A - go to the film room and facility and work on some things he knows he needs to change and can do by himself to improve his play AND the team's

B - think, "well, I'm not going to see the field even half the time I did last season, so what does it matter"

C - think, "well, we've got Nmadi, he's invincible, so why do I need to work harder, I'm not going to be playing against the opposing team's 2nd or 3rd WR like I did last year, and even I can hang with a number 4 or 5 WR.

I really think that's what happens most of the time (B & C), and it's not like these guys think consciously, "I can not work hard and we'll still win", but I think they start taking that one play off, or that one rep, or that one day, or whatever, because, "Hey, we've got Babin and Nmadi and FA and FA and FA, and they'll make up for it if I mess up this once, besides I've seen them take a play off when they get tired and they're fine". (Ignoring the fact that those players might occasionally take a play off and not pay for it because even when they "take a play off" they're still 100xs more talented and skilled than the average guy).

That's my theory anyway. That's why I think the Eagles, after going years getting lesser known FAs and maybe ONE big star (which doesn't seem to have the same effect as going and getting 3-4 big stars) they ignored their holes and thought that having that big FA class would make up for it, and like the Skins teams of the past, they're paying for it embarrassingly.

---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 01:46 PM ----------

I'm curious as to what you guys (ES Eagle's fans) think they'll do with Vick's contract now. Was it worth it (especially in the long run), or do you guys think it's going to hamper you during this next offseason?

I actually really like Andy Reid. If the Eagles weren't in the same division as the Skins I'd actually cheer for the guy. I do think he needs to learn clock management someday, but we've seen similar things with every Skins coach we've had in the last 10 years (Marty being the only exception).

Great points, I just want to piggy-back on and say, that's why leadership is so important. If the 4th CB sees Nnamdi, Samuel and DRC in the film room or working out every Monday, and one of them actually makes a point of telling the guy (I guess we're talking about Joselio Hanson here, but nothing personal Joselio, if you're reading this), "hey, we're gonna check out the breakdown of last nights game then do some yoga," then maybe he, and the rest of the guys fighting for PT, will actually put in that extra work.

And you can't break it down to just one thing. It is coaching. It is talent. It is effort. The Eagles have problems from top to bottom, and I don't know how to fix it, but I'm enjoying the hell out of watching them try.