The Official(ish) 2012 Quarterback Prospect Thread

[ArmchairRedskin]

There certainly are, and if you don't believe that, I can only assume that you haven't seen as much of Cam this season as I have. Cam completed passes this season that the large majority of the league has no chance of completing. As I said, he's inconsistent on some of his throws. But he's capable of making throws that are impossible for most QB's, including Griffin, from what we have seen so far. Its possible he could show a similar ability in the NFL, but we won't know until then.

You have any examples of the throws you're talking about?

[darrelgreenie]

I think its fair to say that as a prospect, he seems to be the best passer of the three, if you're judging by how they were ALL seen as prospects. Cam, though, has proven to have an incredible arm, although a bit inconsistent as a rookie in the NFL. But he can hit throws that only a few other QB's in the league, if that, can dream of attempting.

+1

Nah, I think Griffin is a better passer that Cam is now. His ball placement is better and you don't see Griff sail his passes high on the outs. I don't think there's any pass that Cam can make that Griff couldn't.

I just don't see it either.

For one Cam has a much cleaner and efficient throw motion.

Cam has elite NFL arm strength up there with guys like Cutler and Stafford.

We've seen him throw the ball 60 yards in the air (with velocity) for off his back foot.

I haven't seen Cam sail a pass high on an out route in the NFL at all and I've watched a bunch of his games this year.

I mean we are in fact talking about the dude that hold the rookie record for passing yards.

Cam's ball placement is fine.

I like RGIII as a prospect but he's not Cam.

[darrelgreenie]

You have any examples of the throws you're talking about?

Go to youtube and type: Cam Newton to Steve Smith, then take your pick

[Conn]

You have any examples of the throws you're talking about?

I'm sure that I could find some, but that would require watching a LOT of highlight videos looking for them. And since I've already seen every one of his games, I don't really want to do the leg-work on this one...sorry.

One specific such play occurred on a 60+ yard TD pass that he was forced to throw off of his back foot, or while hopping, or some other ridiculous showing of elite arm strength, and it was perfect. A throw that not many QB's in the league right now can make. Stafford and Cutler come to mind. Two of the best pure arms in the league.

Edit: Woah dg, I was composing this post when you posted yours. I see we're on the exact same page with this one, to an eerie degree.

[RWJ]

I'd be comfortable betting a small portion of money that Tannehill gets taken in the 1st round. Luckily for my poor college self, I don't know anybody in real life who would make such a specific bet like this with me.

Bro, your not telling me anything I don't know and thank you for the response. I believe Shanahan is going to let the cards play out right up into the draft. After that is when I believe his plan comes into play. JMO.

[ArmchairRedskin]

I'm sure that I could find some, but that would require watching a LOT of highlight videos looking for them. And since I've already seen every one of his games, I don't really want to do the leg-work on this one...sorry.

One specific such play occurred on a 60+ yard TD pass that he was forced to throw off of his back foot, or while hopping, or some other ridiculous showing of elite arm strength, and it was perfect. A throw that not many QB's in the league right now can make. Stafford and Cutler come to mind. Two of the best pure arms in the league.

Edit: Woah dg, I was composing this post when you posted yours. I see we're on the exact same page with this one.

You remember the game he threw it in? I have NFL Rewind and it lists all the plays. I'm sure if you remember who he threw it against I could find it pretty easily.

I wouldn't put that throw out of Griff's reach, though. His arm is pretty damn good.

Here's what Matt Miller says about Griff's arm strength

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/979087-robert-griffin-iii-2012-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Arm Strength: 10

Film Study: An underrated characteristic of RG3 is his arm strength. Too many look at the Baylor offense and assume Griffin is throwing check-downs and bubble screens. Not so.

On this play, which is now infamous, Griffin delivers a strike across the field, under pressure, and does so accurately to a receiver with two defenders in the area.

Two things to note on this play, just on the throw alone.

The ball traveled 42 yards in the air and did so on a line. The football wasn't thrown up for the receiver to jump and catch, this was a straight throw to the end zone. That's impressive.

Second, the accuracy with which this ball is delivered is unreal. Watch this play over and over again if you need proof that RG3 can succeed in the NFL.

Overall: Among Griffin's best traits is his ability to throw the football to all levels of the field with velocity.

Griffin has a live arm and can attack deep coverage. He has an easy, smooth throwing motion that shows little effort, but the ball jumps out of his hands with surprising speed and tight spirals. Much like Cam Newton's rookie season, Griffin could be an immediate impact if asked to stretch the field and exploit deep coverage.

Edit

Is this the play you're talking about?

http://m2.nflrush.com/v/ff2011/nfl_films/110918_phl_wk2_cmp_car_smith_62yd_rec_700k.mp4

If so, there is no way you can convince me that Griffin can't make that throw.

[KCClybun]

I'm sure that I could find some, but that would require watching a LOT of highlight videos looking for them. And since I've already seen every one of his games, I don't really want to do the leg-work on this one...sorry.

One specific such play occurred on a 60+ yard TD pass that he was forced to throw off of his back foot, or while hopping, or some other ridiculous showing of elite arm strength, and it was perfect. A throw that not many QB's in the league right now can make. Stafford and Cutler come to mind. Two of the best pure arms in the league.

Edit: Woah dg, I was composing this post when you posted yours. I see we're on the exact same page with this one, to an eerie degree.

4:56.

And he done it several times this season. This is just the one game I remember him doing it in and going "that's just not ****ing fair."

[darrelgreenie]

there is no way you can convince me that Griffin can't make that throw.

Okay then, if you can honestly look at Cam throw the ball and look at Griffin throw the ball and can't see the difference in velocity I'm not gonna try to convince you.

I like Griff as much as anyone else in this forum (probably more) but Cam has elite arm strength to my eye and Griff has above average but not elite.

[Conn]

Okay then, if you can honestly look at Cam throw the ball and look at Griffin throw the ball and can't see the difference in velocity I'm not gonna try to convince you.

I like Griff as much as anyone else in this forum (probably more) but Cam has elite arm strength to my eye and Griff has above average but not elite.

This is where I stand. There's nothing I can type that can cause you to agree with me, Armchair. If you see something different in the tape, then okay. We'll see. I don't believe Griffin's arm is near Cam's, and I have a huge man-crush on both. I've watched a lot of both. I think that Griffin's great deep ball is confused with having elite arm strength. He does have nice velocity on difficult throws, but I don't think anyone in the league, save one or two guys, can touch Cam's arm.

For instance, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees have terrific deep balls. But this has developed over time, and is not the same as having an elite arm. Cam, Stafford, and Cutler are pretty much in a league of their own.

[ArmchairRedskin]

This is where I stand. There's nothing I can type that can cause you to agree with me, Armchair. If you see something different in the tape, then okay. We'll see. I don't believe Griffin's arm is near Cam's, and I have a huge man-crush on both. I've watched a lot of both. I think that Griffin's great deep ball is confused with having elite arm strength. He does have nice velocity on difficult throws, but I don't think anyone in the league, save one or two guys, can touch Cam's arm.

For instance, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees have terrific deep balls. But this has developed over time, and is not the same as having an elite arm. Cam, Stafford, and Cutler are pretty much in a league of their own.

I see, so you're right, I'm wrong? I think you're underrating Griffs arm for sure. Look a the A&M game. There's a play in there where Griff throws from behind the 50 just into the endzone with minimal effort. Sure it's not 60 yards, but there is no huge windup. I'll see if I can't find a longer example.

Besides raw arm strength Griffin is just more accurate. His deep ball is better than Cam's.His deep ball is uncanny. He doesn't sail the outs like I've seen Cam do. Cam sailed outs in his game against us.I know I watched another game of his where he also tended to sail his outs. I can't recall who it was but I'm sure if I dig into it I can point them out. Griffin hits those. He's just more consistent on all levels of the field.

Anyway, if you believe that Cam is a better passer then fine. I'm not gonna have some big long back and forth about it. I think Griff is better. Either way, I know that Griff's passing ability will translate well to then NFL and I'm excited that he could be coming here.

[Conn]

I see, so you're right, I'm wrong?

I said right at the beginning of the post you quoted that I couldn't sway your opinion with my words when you've already watched both, so "we'll see".This does not mean what you're accusing me of saying above.

Anyway, if you believe that Cam is a better passer then fine. I'm not gonna have some big long back and forth about it. I think Griff is better. Either way, I know that Griff's passing ability will translate well to then NFL and I'm excited that he could be coming here.

This is essentially what I said, although obviously with the opposite point of view. I'm excited about Griffin as well, especially if he comes here. I think his passing ability will transition beautifully. I just disagree on him vs. Cam.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Conn, do me a favor and go to the 13:50 mark of this video and tell me what you think

http://draftbreakdown.com/robert-griffin-iii-vs-texas-am-2011

A different pass than the one I mentioned earlier, but still, on the run, effortless. I would say not too many QB's make that throw.

[Conn]

I don't see anything particularly special about that throw, in comparison to what I've seen Cam do over and over throughout the year. I wasn't particularly impressed with the velocity, and you could argue it would have been picked by an NFL-caliber DB. I won't argue that, because QB's with great anticipation and arm strength CAN squeeze their passes into tiny windows where other QB's would be picked off. But I'm not sure this is one of those times. I'm not saying it was an unimpressive throw, but its not a throw I'd hold up as the example of elite arm strength and ball placement, just my opinion.

Great quality video, btw.

[ArmchairRedskin]

I don't see anything particularly special about that throw, in comparison to what I've seen Cam do over and over throughout the year. I wasn't particularly impressed with the velocity, and you could argue it should have been picked. I won't, because QB's with great anticipation and arm strength CAN squeeze their passes into tiny windows where other QB's would be picked off. But I don't think this is one of those times. I'm not saying it was an unimpressive throw, but its not a throw I'd hold up as the example of elite arm strength and ball placement, just my opinion.

Great quality video, btw.

I would say it is a good example of arm strength. He's not set, he's on the move and the ball is 50 yards in the air in a place where his receiver can make a play on it. You telling me that Cam Newton ball is placed better?

[darrelgreenie]

Armchair-

No one is saying that Griff doesn't have above average arm strength.

Your comment was that Griff is far and away the better passer then Cam.

Nevermind that Cam has a cleaner throwing motion, for a second. (Do we agree that Cam has a cleaner throwing motion?)

And look at arm strength: their at least on the same tier. (to my eye Cam's clearly has elite arm talent but..)

Efficiency? Their on the same level (although Cam almost set the NCAA efficiency record).

If these are true then how can Griff be far and away the better passer?

Especially given that Cam set a new NFL rookie record for passing?

For Griff to be far and away better then Cam would have to make him easily the top prospect in this class.

And it would set the bar for his rookie season ridiculously high.

I get the feeling that you're vastly underselling Cam's skillset.

[ArmchairRedskin]

greenie, what did I say about posting at me? I don't care what your opinion is. I thought I made myself clear on that.

[8181]

I hope the Panthers pick up Dwayne Bowe or Marques Colston for Cam Newton. Newton is awesome.

[darrelgreenie]

Oh btw-If we remember and I'm sure we will.

Lets keep an ear out at the combine when the combines radar gun results are leaked.

They're unofficial and unverifiable but Cam measured @ 56 mph

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/28/source-radar-gun-says-kaepernick-had-combines-strongest-arm/

Lets see what Griff measures if it gets leaked

---------- Post added January-8th-2012 at 10:54 PM ----------

greenie, what did I say about posting at me? I don't care what your opinion is. I thought I made myself clear on that.

Nice, very mature as usual.

Whenever faced with even the most benign discussion you get like this.

Again if you feel uncomfortable when challenged on a point you probably shouldn't post in an internet forum.

I come here to discuss football and I support what I write.

If you don't like it, I don't care.

But, I'm not going baby what I write because it frazzles you.

Grow up or don't post or don't respond to my posts.

[Conn]

I would say it is a good example of arm strength. He's not set, he's on the move and the ball is 50 yards in the air in a place where his receiver can make a play on it. You telling me that Cam Newton ball is placed better?

Its a great throw. I'm just saying that I think Cam's arm strength is greater, as is his velocity. That's all. I'm not sure that Cam would have placed it better, as he's still a bit inconsistent. But when he lets it rip, he can make throws that no one else can. And that's almost not an exaggeration at all.

I think you're seriously downplaying Cam's arm here. I know that he's a dual-threat, which helps him vs. any defense...but he legitimately stands in the pocket and makes incredible throws every game. He set the rookie passing record with one great but aging WR, a good TE, a decent TE, and a good running game. That's certainly not an offense with no assets in the toolbox, but still. To break such a record, he obviously had to be a superlative passer. And you aren't giving him that credit, I don't think.

Griffin is an excellent prospect. But after seeing Cam's arm transfer so well to the NFL, I don't know how you can say objectively that Griffin is "far and away" the better passer. That's ridiculous.

[Conn]

greenie, what did I say about posting at me? I don't care what your opinion is. I thought I made myself clear on that.

Woah. I had you pegged as a respectful and rational poster. But I see that I had you confused with someone else on my mental list. This is pretty unacceptable, towards a poster like DG. He's quite the debater, but doesn't cross the line. I think this does.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Oh btw-If we remember and I'm sure we will.

Lets keep an ear out at the combine when the combines radar gun results are leaked.

They're unofficial and unverifiable but Cam measured @ 56 mph

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/28/source-radar-gun-says-kaepernick-had-combines-strongest-arm/

Lets see what Griff measures if it gets leaked

---------- Post added January-8th-2012 at 10:54 PM ----------

Nice, very mature as usual.

Whenever faced with even the most benign discussion you get like this.

Again if you feel uncomfortable when challenged on a point you probably shouldn't post in an internet forum.

I come here to discuss football and I support what I write.

If you don't like it, I don't care.

But, I'm not going baby what I write because it frazzles you.

Grow up or don't post or don't respond to my posts.

I told you this a while back. It has nothing to do with this thread. I don't like you. I don't care what your opinions are. Don't post at me.

The End.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Woah. I had you pegged as a respectful and rational poster. But I see that I had you confused with someone else on my mental list. This is pretty unacceptable, towards a poster like DG. He's quite the debater, but doesn't cross the line. I think this does.

I don't think you have to worry yourself about my relations with other posters.

[Conn]

I told you this a while back. It has nothing to do with this thread. I don't like you. I don't care what your opinions are. Don't post at me.

The End.

Then put him on ignore, if this is really how you feel. I'll reiterate--this is embarrassing, and makes me reevaluate my opinion of you as a poster. I don't expect you to care about that. But dg has approached this thread respectfully and logically. You could easily just respond to his points, as you are mine. YOU are the one making it personal. Which is a shame.

I don't think you have to worry yourself about my relations with other posters.

I have probably, in my time at ES, read a large portion of dg's thousands of posts. Based upon my personal opinion, he's one of the better posters here, and very rational. I see the way you've reacted as inappropriate, as I see you in a similar light, most of the time.

This is a public message board. If you don't want your thoughts commented on, regardless of subject, then you should have sent them in a PM. As you went about it, I will indeed comment on the content of your posts.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Then put him on ignore, if this is really how you feel. I'll reiterate--this is embarrassing, and makes me reevaluate my opinion of you as a poster. I don't expect you to care about that. But dg has approached this thread respectfully and logically. You could easily just respond to his points, as you are mine. YOU are the one making it personal. Which is a shame.

I have probably, in my time at ES, read a large portion of dg's thousands of posts. Based upon my personal opinion, he's one of the better posters here, and very rational. I see the way you've reacted as inappropriate, as I see you in a similar light, most of the time.

This is a public message board. If you don't want your thoughts commented on, regardless of subject, then you should have sent them in a PM. As you went about it, I will indeed comment on the content of your posts.

Look Conn, I told him in no uncertain terms that I had no interest in his thoughts a while back. I told him not to post at me back then. He seems to have forgotten. I would say if anything, he's out of line for not accepting that.

[darrelgreenie]

I told you this a while back. It has nothing to do with this thread. I don't like you. I don't care what your opinions are. Don't post at me.

The End.

So, you're gonna stop posting now?

At least be honest because if you didn't care what my opinions were they wouldn't bother you so much.

I wonder why my opinions do bother you so much?

Maybe its because I state my points quietly and clearly yet you tend to get pushy and personal yet still end up being wrong?

Like with this thread:

Saying this draft class is better then last years has become a sound bite or catch phrase.

Most of the draft sports media take their ques on QBs(prospects in general too) from scouts.

But, most scouts don't really start looking at underclassmen til later on in the year when/if they declare.

Touting this class as better then last year's class is more then a bit premature.

Especially without concrete support.