twa Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Class warfare doesnt exist if each person is treated and handled as an individual rather than a member of a group. radical thinking like that is not politically exploitable go sit in the corner with the Founders and contemplate your transgression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm not too smart about most of these types of things...but the main sense that I'm getting from this is that we are trying to be too black and white. More often than not, the people described in these hypothetical scenarios are doing what they can to help their family/friends. Granted, some might be doing it in an unethical way and I'm not saying it's right or correct, but I think the point is that it's focused on themselves or their people. I get how those actions might adversely impact someone else (who might happen to be from a poorer family), but the intent isn't to declare war on that person/family/class. It just seems like an overly dramatic way of describing a situation. I liked Drew's response calling it system manipulation or something. I don't know...to use a different example, if there's one 50-yard line ticket for the Super Bowl left and I offer the seller 2x what he's asking for it, am I declaring war on people who can't or won't pay that amount or just doing what I can to guarantee I get to watch the Super Bowl? It might be a "dick move" in some cases and many of the examples don't paint the person in a nice light...but I don't think he or she is directly trying to hold anyone down as much as just being selfish and looking out for himself. Edit...like I said, I fully concede that I don't know what the Hell I'm talking about too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 ...Being born in an advantageous spot doesn't guarantee you're going to be successful and make a good life for yourself. Being born into ****ty and difficult circumstances doesn't guarantee you won't make a good life for yourself. ... Speaking in generalities is never how you want to approach something. ... 2 specific examples and an aweful lot of generalities in your post there. Nothing guarantees anything, but some things make some outcomes much more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Is this hypothetical or you are saying this actually occurred? I'm 39. I was born in 1972. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm 39. I was born in 1972. It was written as if it were true Peter, that is somewhat misleading and changes how people view the scenario. I was born but not yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 It was written as if it were true Peter, that is somewhat misleading and changes how people view the scenario. I was born but not yesterday. I'm sorry that wasn't intentional. I assume that most people here know a little something about me and know that I wasn't rich and powerful during the Vietnam ware era. I regularly talk about my 5 and 2 year old girls (and my age is properly given w/ every post I make). The one story about dental school though is true. It isn't my kid, but it did happen. And I don't think anybody doubts that sort of thing happened in the Vietnam war era. It just wasn't my kid. ---------- Post added October-28th-2011 at 10:28 AM ---------- radical thinking like that is not politically exploitablego sit in the corner with the Founders and contemplate your transgression. Is Warren Buffet guilty of class warfare? Who he is carrying out war against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 class warfare = advocacy for poor/middle class people, according to the GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm sorry that wasn't intentional. I assume that most people here know a little something about do know that I wasn't rich and powerful during the Vietnam ware era. I regularly talk about my 5 and 2 year old girls (and my age is properly given w/ every post I make). The one story about dental school though is true. It isn't my kid, but it did happen. And I don't think anybody doubts that sort of thing happened in the Vietnam war era. It just wasn't my kid.---------- Post added October-28th-2011 at 10:28 AM ---------- Is Warren Buffet guilty of class warfare? Who he is carrying out war against? Warren Buffet is guilty of Class warfare when he wades in with the Politicians and makes political statements in favor of his personal choice for Prez. They take specially crafted situations and present them at truth. (He said he paid tax of $6.9 million, for a federal tax rate of 17.3%, His % might be less than his secretary, but he paid MORE taxes than every secretary in California). 17% seems high for a secretary after deductions. I'd be willing to bet it was closer to 10%. But can't find a single article that lists her example. propaganda. The Secretary (Kizer) is not amused: Meanwhile, actual staff at Berkshire Hathaway are seeking to stay out of it. declined to give out more information about how many executive assistants Buffett has or their names. "I can't give you the answers that you are looking for," she said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Warren Buffet is guilty of Class warfare when he wades in with the Politicians and makes political statements in favor of his contender. They take specially crafted situations and present them at truth. So if a wealthy person comes out and says that he thinks that taxes on the wealthy should raised, where there is no evidence that he's going to benefit, that's class warfare? Again, it wasn't intentional, and I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfoom Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I was rich and powerful during the Vietnam war, and I pulled whatever strings I had to get my son into a National Guard unit that didn't go to Vietnam, and the person that went in the place of my son was from a lower income family.The person that was sent in my son's place was some how affected negatively by the Vietnam war experience, which affected his long term earning potential and his larger families (parents, sibling, wife, children, etc.) long term savings and economic situation. My son went on to live a normal and life and essentially carried on my legacy, joining the rich and powerful. The other guys (the one that went in place of my son) kids grew up in a broken home (partly driven by his issues), went to poor schools, never had any economic stability, ended up getting into trouble, and being in jail at 21. Am I guilty of class warfare? Is this the free market working? Is this capitialism? How about if it isn't a case where somebody is "replaced"? What if my kid is "guilty" of getting drunk and trying to run over his ex-girl friend with his SUV, but I use my money, power, and prestige so that instead of being suspended from the high end college he attends and convicted of a major crime, he is simply given a non-disciplinary leave of absence from college, which doesn't affect his grades, and pleads guilty to a misdearmanor? Does it change if he gets into a good dental school that allows him to go on and become a wealthy dentist and his spot would have been taken by some from a lower class if he'd been suspended from college and that had shown up on his transcript? None of that has anything to do with class warfare. It is simply someone using the tools at his disposal to go around a corrupt system (kind of like a Senator getting drunk, driving his car off a bridge, and leaving his date to drown while he swim to shore and goes home to bed). Class warfare is when politicians manipulate people of one economic 'class' to rail against members of another economic 'class', usually using things like jealousy and fear to get what they want. They promise that they will champion the cause of the under-dog class (usually low income/low educated but lots of people) and promise to fight against the 'superior' class (usually high income/highly educated but much fewer people). In this case, they want the portion who will deliver more votes in order to get elected and use the "warfare" between the poor and rich to garner those votes. Edit to add: I didn't mean to suggest that class warfare is used only one way. It has certainly been used by politicians who attempt to scare people into voting for them by using issues like crime to divide people into different 'classes'. On one side, there is the so-called upper class, where the politician supposes there is little crime involving those members while on the other hand portraying the so-called lower class as having a large number of criminals among their members. The politician promises to do things like make tougher laws/sentences to keep the criminals away from the upper class (at least that is the suggestion - I don't think many have said it like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Class warfare is when politicians manipulate people of one economic 'class' to rail against members of another economic 'class', usually using things like jealousy and fear to get what they want. They promise that they will champion the cause of the under-dog class (usually low income/low educated but lots of people) and promise to fight against the 'superior' class (usually high income/highly educated but much fewer people). In this case, they want the portion who will deliver more votes in order to get elected and use the "warfare" between the poor and rich to garner those votes. So it is impossible for the wealthy, as long as they are the smaller percentage of voters, to carry out class warfare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 class warfare = advocacy for poor/middle class people, according to the GOP. It is if you advocate specifically taking from one class to give to another Why not advocate the needs,then address the funding in a evenhanded manner? instead we get this crap about deserving others money,or they are prospering more than us horse****....that is not taxation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 He does personally benefit. Just not monetarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 It is if you advocate specifically taking from one class to give to anotherWhy not advocate the needs,then address the funding in a evenhanded manner? instead we get this crap about deserving others money,or they are prospering more than us horse****....that is not taxation But isn't that the action of one person. Isn't Warren Buffet acting as an individual? Didn't you already establish that one person acting couldn't be class warfare? That even 20 people acting was to small to be a class? Because as I've already stated, the funding can't be done in an even handed manner. You can't get blood from a turnip. ---------- Post added October-28th-2011 at 11:05 AM ---------- He does personally benefit. Just not monetarily. How does he benefit? (Are we going to start reading other people's mind in this thread too?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeb Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 stop being silly peter.It's only class warfare if a low income citizen gets some sort of benefit that an upper class citizen doesn't. lucky ducky!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Is it IMPOSSIBLE to advocate for a new $1,000,000 tax bracket w/o conducting class warfare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 its just a phrase that politicians like to use while being either broad or vague. Job Creator, Job Killer, Trickle Down, Socialist, Marxist, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Is Warren Buffet guilty of class warfare? Who he is carrying out war against? He is guilty of using class as a political weapon and of not paying his taxes.....and a hypocritical POS in my eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Is it IMPOSSIBLE to advocate for a new $1,000,000 tax bracket w/o conducting class warfare? To simply pass a million dollar tax and not talking about it is not class warfare, seems more like policy choice. Going on T.V., Radio, print and getting some in the 99% that are not going to be affected to push for it and call it "Doing their fair share" seems like the definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Is it IMPOSSIBLE to advocate for a new $1,000,000 tax bracket w/o conducting class warfare? No.....it is however if you sell it as benefiting another class instead of the nation goes back to the basic justification for taxation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 He is guilty of using class as a political weapon A weapon? What did he do with the weapon? Who did he hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 its just a phrase that politicians like to use while being either broad or vague.Job Creator, Job Killer, Trickle Down, Socialist, Marxist, etc. My personal favorite is "Pro-growth Policies" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 No.....it is however if you sell it as benefiting another class instead of the nationgoes back to the basic justification for taxation But you said raising taxes on the wealthy for scholarships for the poor was class warfare? Doesn't the nation benefit by having people at the lower end be able to afford college? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 To simply pass a million dollar tax and not talking about it is not class warfare, seems more like policy choice.Going on T.V., Radio, print and getting some in the 99% that are not going to be affected to push for it and call it "Doing their fair share" seems like the definition. What about going on TV, Radio and print and saying that we have too much government bloat going to lower income people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 What about going on TV, Radio and print and saying that we have too much government bloat going to lower income people? No, no, no that's just trying to return to people what is theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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