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What is class warfare?


PeterMP

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**EDIT**

I have two kids. 5 and 3 year old girls.

**EDIT**

I was rich and powerful during the Vietnam war, and I pulled whatever strings I had to get my son into a National Guard unit that didn't go to Vietnam, and the person that went in the place of my son was from a lower income family.

The person that was sent in my son's place was some how affected negatively by the Vietnam war experience, which affected his long term earning potential and his larger families (parents, sibling, wife, children, etc.) long term savings and economic situation.

My son went on to live a normal and life and essentially carried on my legacy, joining the rich and powerful.

The other guys (the one that went in place of my son) kids grew up in a broken home (partly driven by his issues), went to poor schools, never had any economic stability, ended up getting into trouble, and being in jail at 21.

Am I guilty of class warfare?

Is this the free market working?

Is this capitialism?

How about if it isn't a case where somebody is "replaced"?

What if my kid is "guilty" of getting drunk and trying to run over his ex-girl friend with his SUV, but I use my money, power, and prestige so that instead of being suspended from the high end college he attends and convicted of a major crime, he is simply given a non-disciplinary leave of absence from college, which doesn't affect his grades, and pleads guilty to a misdearmanor?

Does it change if he gets into a good dental school that allows him to go on and become a wealthy dentist and his spot would have been taken by some from a lower class if he'd been suspended from college and that had shown up on his transcript?

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I was rich and powerful during the Vietnam war, and I pulled whatever strings I had to get my son into a National Guard unit that didn't go to Vietnam, and the person that went in the place of my son was from a lower income family.

The person that was sent in my son's place was some how affected negatively by the Vietnam war experience, which affected his long term earning potential and his larger families (parents, sibling, wife, children, etc.) long term savings and economic situation.

My son went on to live a normal and life and essentially carried on my legacy, joining the rich and powerful.

The other guys (the one that went in place of my son) kids grew up in a broken home (partly driven by his issues), went to poor schools, never had any economic stability, ended up getting into trouble, and being in jail at 21.

Am I guilty of class warfare?

Is this the free market working?

Is this capitialism?

Not sure how you'd be guilty of class warfare.

It's not the free market or capitalism, either...it's a system being corrupted by human beings. Every system is susceptible to it.

How about if it isn't a case where somebody is "replaced"?

What if my kid is "guilty" of getting drunk and trying to run over his ex-girl friend with his SUV, but I use my money, power, and prestige so that instead of being suspended from the high end college he attends and convicted of a major crime, he is simply given a non-disciplinary leave of absence from college, which doesn't affect his grades, and pleads guilty to a misdearmanor?

Does it change if he gets into a good dental school that allows him to go on and become a wealthy dentist and his spot would have been taken by some from a lower class if he'd been suspended from college and that had shown up on his transcript?

If your kid tried to run over his ex-girlfriend and you're able to keep his ass out of trouble because of your wealth and power, something tells me the kid ain't gonna end up a dentist lol :ols:...more likely to end up in rehab or back in police custody over and over again.

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Not sure how you'd be guilty of class warfare.

It's not the free market or capitalism, either...it's a system being corrupted by human beings. Every system is susceptible to it.

In your opinion, what would be an example of class warfare?

Do I have to go out and actually and intentionally kill people of another class?

Why isn't the free market?

What if the "string" I pulled was getting Congress to pass a college exemption to the draft by giving somebody a large campaign donation and my kid was in college because I found a college that didn't care about his grades and just wanted the money?

(The kid is currently in his 2nd year of dental school and hasn't had any other problems that are "public".)

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Personally I think "class warfare" is a cliche used in nothing more than political ploys. I think it should instead be "system exploitation". That phrase makes more sense in the examples you give.

"System" in this case can mean almost anything...the justice system, the education system, the military, etc...

Usually rich ( I would say "and powerful" but that's redundant) people can exploit a given system, and poor people can't. Just the way it is. I don't see a way to stop it.

Just as an aside, with the way you portray yourself, I will now picture you as a medieval times nobleman :)

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I agree with Drew those are more just manipulating the system because of ability(and it is done by those that are not rich as well)

class warfare is scapegoating or singly out a segment of the population to cause harm to benefit another segment.....a act against a group rather than a act to benefit a individual

which is more wrong;)...buying a favor or exchanging them?

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In your opinion, what would be an example of class warfare?

Do I have to go out and actually and intentionally kill people of another class?

It's not class warfare because the conflict is not between two classes of people and you're not trying to gain more wealth and power through exploiting your socio-economic advantages...

Class warfare would be, for example, a politician or political party exploiting the differences between the classes in society to help them gain more power and control.

Why isn't the free market?

The only way this could be considered the free market is if you define "free market" as any agreement made between two or more people that is free of any government coercion or manipulation...and since you're actually dealing with the government it's not gonna be a free market transaction, especially since the government is arguably coercing your involvement in the transaction by controlling where your son ends up serving in the military.

What if the "string" I pulled was getting Congress to pass a college exemption to the draft by giving somebody a large campaign donation and my kid was in college because I found a college that didn't care about his grades and just wanted the money?

That's some string lol...but it hardly matters what the string is. It's still an abuse of power on the end of the politician.

However, consider this: what if the "string" you pulled was an extraordinarily brilliant and logical argument as to why college students should be exempt from serving in the military...an argument that was so convincing that not only did Congress pass a college exemption to the draft but the majority of the population agreed with you?

Would that be considered class warfare? Free market?

(The kid is currently in his 2nd year of dental school and hasn't had any other problems that are "public".)

If you have power, stature and money it won't be long before it's public lol :yes:...

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class warfare is scapegoating or singly out a segment of the population to cause harm to benefit another segment.....a act against a group rather than a act to benefit a individual

Causing harm to one to benefit another?

Does the order matter?

If it is 20 of my friends and I come up with the plan to BENEFIT our kids (a group)?

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is a small group a class?......I don't think 20 makes the cut

nor do I see benefiting w/o harm as warfare(which goes back to why I see no harm in some prospering more than others....unless they are doing so by causing the others to falter)

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It's not class warfare because the conflict is not between two classes of people and you're not trying to gain more wealth and power through exploiting your socio-economic advantages...

Class warfare would be, for example, a politician or political party exploiting the differences between the classes in society to help them gain more power and control.

Where is the conflict in your example? I see one person (that we don't know the class of) doing something to benefit himself. Who is actually harmed? Is one class actually harmed more than the other?

---------- Post added October-28th-2011 at 12:05 AM ----------

is a small group a class?......I don't think 20 makes the cut

nor do I see benefiting w/o harm as warfare(which goes back to why I see no harm in some prospering more than others....unless they are doing so by causing the others to falter)

Well I thought I clearly explained the "harm" in the OP.

An industrial lobby that gets government to NOT regulate emissions so my company and other similar companies, which allows us to maintain high profit margins (and so high salaries and stock values) even though the chemicals we are dumping end up in public drinking water and are harmful?

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Well I thought I clearly explained the "harm" in the OP.

An industrial lobby that gets government to NOT regulate emissions so my company and other similar companies, which allows us to maintain high profit margins (and so high salaries and stock values) even though the chemicals we are dumping end up in public drinking water and are harmful?

how harmful?(to what degree is acceptable risk)

Are high voltage lines and cell phones harmful?

are sugar peddlers really merchants of death?

none of this is class warfare to me

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My grandfather grew up in the Bronx during the great depression, the son of an abusive Italian immigrant and an alcoholic German immigrant mother. He dropped out of high school at age 16 in 1938, ran away from home, joined the merchant marines making transport runs around the world.

In 1941 he jumped ship and joined the Army, he was sent to an infantry division as a rifleman. He fought for 9 months straight on the front lines through some of the most deadly battles on the western front. He was shot in the leg 3 times by an MG42 late in the war, captured by the Germans, and left behind to be taken back by the American army when the German position was overrun in a few days.

He had horrible post traumatic stress problems. He killed a lot of people, saw a lot of death in a lot of different ways. He was horribly affected by it, he took over a year to recover from his wounds to the point where he could walk, and he had pain in his legs for the rest of his life.

When he came back from the war he didn't have a place to live, his father threw out the medals the military had mailed to his home address, and he had to get a job to help pay for GED classes. He earned his GED, met my grandmother, and moved out to California to follow her when her family moved. He went to college out there, got a degree in business, got a job with the department of defense and worked until the 70's moving around the world from California to Texas to Germany to England and then finally to D.C. He never made more than 40,000 dollars per year, but he invested extremely well in the stock market and by the time he died in 2005 he was worth over five million dollars and didn't worry about money in the slightest bit.

He went from nothing, an abusive household which actually caused him to attempt suicide in his teens, facing death on a daily basis in WW2, suffering painful wounds which followed him for the rest of his life, and he ended up finishing his life as a multi-millionaire with no debt, a nice house, and a large family.

Now at the same time lets talk about my sister: raised in the household of a highly successful businessmen and fantastic parents that I can vouch for. My sister, like my brother and myself had a great childhood where she had everything she ever needed and was treated with love and kindness.

She decided to do a whole lot of drugs, pretend that her life wasn't as good as it was, and squandered every opportunity she was given. She dropped out of 3 straight universities, married someone she divorced a mere 2 years later, and almost died of a drug overdose before going to rehab and turning her life around. At age 30 she is finally graduating from college and has a steady job for the first time ever that doesn't include being a waitress. She had everything handed to her and she threw it all away.

Being born in an advantageous spot doesn't guarantee you're going to be successful and make a good life for yourself. Being born into ****ty and difficult circumstances doesn't guarantee you won't make a good life for yourself. So many things go into a person pulling themselves up from nothing and a person dragging themselves down from something. Nature or nurture alone do not determine how a person's life goes. Either of those CAN determine that but typically not alone. My grandfather isn't the typical story for someone growing up in poverty, abuse, going off to war, facing death and the horrible lows of humanity every day for 9 months, and getting wounded. Typically those people have a difficult time overcoming those issues. My sister isn't the typical example of a person from her background either- my brother and I are doing just fine and to be honest nobody is really quite sure what went wrong with her.

Speaking in generalities is never how you want to approach something. Is somebody a failure because of his class? Somebody was born into a bad situation and had no choice but to succumb to it? Do we have that little free choice, or that little ability to set goals for ourselves? Was that person just too lazy to hold themselves to a higher standard? Did they simply not try hard enough and wallow in self pity? It could be one, it could be the other. Is my sister a success because she was born into the upper class? No, of course not.

I believe that where you're born doesn't determine where you finish, it just makes things easier or harder for you to accomplish a goal. Someone can play a video game on hard mode and lose terribly, some of them will scrape by, some of them will win because they're incredible at games. Someone can play a video game on easy mode and cruise to a simple and quick victory, or they could still suck so bad at the game that even in easy mode they find a way to fail. Life is like this.

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how harmful?(to what degree is acceptable risk)

Are high voltage lines and cell phones harmful?

are sugar peddlers really merchants of death?

none of this is class warfare to me

Harmful enough that, even if some people deny it, that it is statistically significant.

Raising taxes on the wealthy so that the government can pay for scholarships for the poorer people?

What do you think is class warfare?

Do you have to actually and intentionally kill somebody of the other class because they are of another class?

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If I told people you got your son out of Vietnam by using your power/money or that you got your son out of trouble the same way... I'd be accused of class warfare. I don't know what it's supposed to mean but in practice it seems that it means "telling average Americans how the powerful few are screwing them"

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if you target the rich to simply benefit the poor it is indeed class warfare to me.

the addition of vilifying wealth simply adds to it.

sin taxes are no better

Don't the wealthy benefit from increasing people's ability to contribute to society?

Doesn't the US as a whole?

Do the wealthy generally support sin taxes?

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if it is a good idea and worth the money the tax burden needs not fall on a single group

why is it a good idea to single out a income group or others specifically?

Because the other groups can't pay to send their own kids to college w/o borrowing money?

As my dad liked to say, you can't get blood from a turnip.

What about sin taxes?

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we already have a progressive tax system as well as EIC credits and deds....taxing the rich extra is not making college more affordable(as I think you know)

if a product is deemed legal it should be taxed at the same rate as any other

gonna call it a night...later

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I thought Class warfare was a politician pointing to the 10% and trying to rally the 90% behind him so he can get re-elected. < Thats it.

It doesn't matter if the message is even true. It is a strategy used to get another 5% of the vote of those that are just pissed.

The left uses it to say: "THEY" are making too much we need to take their money and share it with you because its fair.

Creating programs like fre student loans and while raising taxes on the 250+ to pay for it.

The right uses it to say: "THEY" are using class warfair on the Rich, we need to bring up the poor with Tax cuts and less regulations.

Creating jobs and allowing some to make more money to become a "They".

Neither use it during the regular business day, it is brought out only when discussing each other.

I wouldn't let my daughter go to jail if it wasn't horrific in nature. I'd get the community to help me fix her (church/therapy/school/supervision on my part).

If jail was vocational i would think about it, its just a holding facility. I wouldn't consider this class warfare. Can you name a time when this wan't the rule?

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