Skins Wingman Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 i think torain should get the start.. alternate torain and helu and keep hightower for 3rd down. looks like this is a popular choice in this thread also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 BUT BUT BUT......................... Tower looked sooooooooo good in preseason against VANILLA defenses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santanathegreat Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 We stick with Hightower, just like we're sticking with that scrub Rex. If we're giving one guy a chance to keep his job, we should give another guy his chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 The FO obviously knew the timetable about Torains hand and conditioning. Hightower was aquired on the cheap as a warm body/stopgap along with being a better 3rd down back that can run better then K.Williams and catch as well. Its NOT like Torain was a bust last year, he just gets nicked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanCTT Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Not sure why Helu isn't in the poll. I think we should take advantage of all three. Fresh legs make a huge difference. Do you see this happening in Jacksonville and Minnesota? Yes, Maurice Jones Drew and Adrian Peterson we will rotate some hack in and split your carries. No? You don't see that?! Really? That is because they have an established RB, a #1. The question for us is: Who do we give it to when we play the Giants and Cowboys next 20+ times a game? The numbers don't lie, it will be Torain. Helu isn't part of the conversation because he is the 3rd string back now. He always has been but Torain needed to get healthy. Do you think the Vikings are saying "We will limit Peterson's carries so he is fresh down the stretch" Nope, they want to best chance of winning and win now. There is a reason Hightower didn't start previously, we now know why. he is good for 100-125 carries a year, anything more and heis production goes down drastically. That will equate to 6-7 carries a game, maybe less. Your change of back is only effective if he is limited in carries.......3-4 a game in the right situation. That's it. Give Helu the ball 15-20 times and enjoy his 3 yards per carry like he has displayed the last two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 We stick with Hightower, just like we're sticking with that scrub Rex. If we're giving one guy a chance to keep his job, we should give another guy his chance. It was Torains job before breaking the hand besides there isnt any BETTER options at QB position.....sorry your arguement is weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanCTT Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 We stick with Hightower, just like we're sticking with that scrub Rex. If we're giving one guy a chance to keep his job, we should give another guy his chance. Try and re-read my long read....here I will get the important part for you: If Torain runs the ball for 91 yards on his next 49 carries and NEVER reaches the endzone, he will be MORE productive than Hightower 1/4 of the way through the season. He might get 189 yards and 2 TDs or he might get 91 yards and 0 TDs.....point is he would be MORE effective than Hightower through the first 4 games. That includes ARIZONA and the RAMS that are 29 and 32nd against the RUN. What part aren't you folks understanding here.....what am I missing, please help me out guys! Thanks, Eric ---------- Post added October-3rd-2011 at 03:57 PM ---------- It was Torains job before breaking the hand besides there isnt any BETTER options at QB position.....sorry your arguement is weak Grossman is on thin ice....it might crack soon, but he will get one last chance against the Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Seriously with this? Torain's production benefited from being a flat out better runner than Hightower & Helu. It could not have been more obvious yesterday. Really flat out better? This gets so old. I like all 3 backs but because you love Torain you act all incredulous when some thinks different? Hightower and Helu both have a skillset better suited to this system. ---------- Post added October-3rd-2011 at 04:19 PM ---------- Allow me to add a little context to your food. More food for thought:Game 1 :Huge turnovers by the Giants allowed us the build the lead, thus the ineffective run game went unnoticed. 25 carries 72 yard 1 TD against a tough NFC opponentNot great YPC numbers but the running game was their to control the clock/time of possension and to set-up playaction. Game 2: We couldn't run out the clock with the lead, the fumble by Zona sealed it and the ineffective run game goes unnoticed.How about we weren't in a position to run the clock out because we didn't have a lead in the 2nd half.Ineffective? Hightower 20 carries 98 yards 4.8 ypc Helu 10 carries 74 yards 7.4 ypc Game 3: We couldn't run out the clock with the lead. The fumble by Grossman is the scapegoat and the ineffective run game goes unnoticed.Ineffective?Hightower ran better then the final numbers suggest and it was Kyle that got away from the run, far more then the running game being ineffective that prevented us from running out the clock. The lone scoring drive against the Cowboys came late in the 3rd qtr and was lead by Hightower and Hightower based play-action passing: 5 runs (all Hightower) for 20 yards, 4.0 yards per carry 2 passes 8 yards 1st down/1 TD For the rest of the game their were: 2 runs vs 11 passes Don't tell me the running game was ineffective, I watch the games. Kyle chose to air try to air it out to close the game. More like the running game was the scape goat for Kyle's pass happy nature. Game 4: Torain runs out the clock in a 1 possesion game. Torain runs well in relief appearance against the worst rush defense we faced all year. Kyle still chose/tried to air it out to close the game: result Rex INT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 1. I read the whole thread first (my recommendation to all who post, though I don’t follow it perfectly). 2. I agree with TK as to TH’s weaknesses and those were part of why AZ let him go despite his assets. 3. I agree with the RBBC premise, though to me Helu is still unproven in actual games (and I like the guy). 4. I am torn between those who want to run the progression as is (start TH and sub as desired with RT getting more consideration now healthier) and staring RT, but am leaning to the view of TH wearing down a D and allowing him to continue to adjust and develop to this evolving team. IWO, I think he has even more usefule production talent than we have seen to date, and we fans have yet to see where that may go and the actual coaches are more patient with that process. 5. One thing about ES posters---many are really reactionary. We (generalizing) not only share an absence of actual pro-level football analysis (obviously) no matter of our indivisual ego or, in rare cases, actual serious level of acumen, but as devout fans many of us lack patience and and really informed or educated overview of what is transpiring on the field. Thus, every thing that is less then dominantly and consistently impressive is called out as some sort of “global fail”, often in overstated and vociferous fashion. I think KS's play-calling efficacy is a very prominent example of this matter on the boards lately (and that's not a blanket endorsement of KS, but I definitely have a positive view). 6. TH has (usually) better pass reception skills to the best of my knowledge, over time, and any ability to best him on that by RT or Helu’s have yet to be established. In our offense that is likely part of the equation. RT also had a (to me) less than normal performance level yesterday. 7. While I have stated more than once I am no supplicant to the “appeal to authority” argument, here specifically (the run game) I really do trust in Shanahanx2. My personal preference, to take a bottom line stand, would be to start TH, bring in RT when desired (and in the 2nd half even if TH is doing ok but if less than awesome) and Roy as wanted/needed. I, for one, am surprisingly pleased to be at 3-1 at this point, pontificating aside. :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 ^^^ (darrelgrennie) maybe Kyle wants to throw the ball cause he dont believe in his RBs. If he thinks REX can WIN a game for ya, then we are in for another LONG frustrating season. Was Torain "ineffective" last year in this ststem you think you know so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryGreenMonk Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I'm for starting the game with any of the 3 that has the best chance at gashing the opponents style of defense... then sub fresh legs as the game wears on and defense tires... then in the 4th Q.. go with the hot runner. wash, rinse, repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I'm for starting the game with any of the 3 that has the best chance at gashing the opponents style of defense... then sub fresh legs as the game wears on and defense tires... then in the 4th Q.. go with the hot runner. wash, rinse, repeat. Soooooooooo we need backs that run well v/s 4-3, 3-4, cover2, etc. Put in the back that can make yards when there isnt any (Torain), use another to keep defense off-balance ('Tower) and sprinkle in a speed factor (Helu) wash, rinse, repeat Against great teams, you may be down cause youve experimented for 3 qrtrs. Not to mention a RB needs reps to get a "feel" for the defense, notice there are cutback lanes etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan4life7 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Shanahan did come out and say Hightower was a little banged up during the week and re-injured himself during the game a little bit. This might be because of the big load he carried in the first couple of weeks, but thats fine because we don't have to rely on one RB to carry us each week. If one gets hurt, onto the next one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Allow me to add a little context to your food.25 carries 72 yard 1 TD against a tough NFC opponent Not great YPC numbers but the running game was their to control the clock/time of possension and to set-up playaction. I agree with you. It at least looks, to me, like our running game against NYG did exactly what it was supposed to do: Force them to keep stacking 8 in the box, keep Manning on the sidelines, and set up the bootlegs and rollouts. Torain runs well in relief appearance against the worst rush defense we faced all year.Kyle still chose/tried to air it out to close the game: result Rex INT. Disagree there, though. Torain didn't exactly come in for fourth quarter mop-up, there. He rotated in and out pretty much the whole game. And pretty much the whole game, when he was in, the running game got like 10 yards every play. And every time he was out, it didn't. There are lots of possible explanations for that. But I see no reason at all to just assume that whenever Torain was in, the D was tired, but then, when he came out, the D got refreshed, until the next time he came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 We are witnessing the birth of our own 3 headed monster. Who starts doesnt matter, as all 3 will see action. Dont count out Helu. Sure he may not start but he may easily end up with the most yards in week 6. I still cant get over what a hulking menace Torain looks like once he gets up to speed. You would think he is closer to 246 than 216 with the load he is bringing. I like him coming in off the bench as he isnt the all around back THT is, and we have a pass happy OC folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I still cant get over what a hulking menace Torain looks like once he gets up to speed. You would think he is closer to 246 than 216 with the load he is bringing. I like him coming in off the bench as he isnt the all around back THT is, and we have a pass happy OC folks. The radio guys were saying that at least according to the press book, our RBs have pretty much identical weights. (There's like three pounds difference between them.) But that everybody talks and acts like Torain is so much bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjumbo1971 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I hope it's Torrain we need to come out with attitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanCTT Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I hope it's Torrain we need to come out with attitude Torain didn't play last year in the 100-0 blowout at home since it was raining, it was Keiland Williams who played the whole game. Payback is a BIATCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Its a nice problem to have. Torain certainly looks like he's most adept at letting his blocks develop and hitting cutbacks. He obviously reads his keys better. HT needs to step it up. He seems very impatient and tries to force his way thru a lot. He also lacks a second gear. Torain doesn't have a top gear, but he's got a nice second gear and he's just a load to bring down. It really is hard to believe that all three of our backs are similiar height and weight. Torain seems a lot bigger on the field. No matter who starts or who finishes, though, it should be a big day for us to run. Philly is inexperienced and soft at the LB position. They are 30th against the run in yardage and allow 5.3 ypc. Through 4 games they've allowed 558 yards. Compare that to us who've allowed 338 yards. We gotta hit em where they're vulnerable. If we can avoid falling behind early then it should be a heavy dose of running back by committee Lets all hope that Kyle doesn't try to get cute and get pass happy because he thinks that Philly thinks we'll try to run the ball. You run the ball until they stop it or until you fall behind. Kyle has been getting way too cute with the playcalling if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho fan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I don't think you switch things up after one game. Obviously Torain had a great game and very well could be the starter eventually but for now I say HT keeps the starting job... then mix in Helu and RT and go with whoever is tearing it up for the majority of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanCTT Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I don't think you switch things up after one game. Obviously Torain had a great game and very well could be the starter eventually but for now I say HT keeps the starting job... then mix in Helu and RT and go with whoever is tearing it up for the majority of the game. He had a QUARTER of a season he is horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Shrugs shoulders meh I don't think we disagree: Torain runs well in relief appearance against the worst rush defense we faced all year. Disagree there, though. Torain didn't exactly come in for fourth quarter mop-up, there. He rotated in and out pretty much the whole game. And pretty much the whole game, when he was in, the running game got like 10 yards every play. And every time he was out, it didn't. There are lots of possible explanations for that. But I see no reason at all to just assume that whenever Torain was in, the D was tired, but then, when he came out, the D got refreshed, until the next time he came in. I'm not saying or implying or assuming any of the above. I state flat out that Torain ran well. It was my understanding that Hightower was kinda banged up (shoulder) and that is why Torain got a heavy dose of reps; hence in relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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