NYDN: Cowboys Fan Uses Taser on Marine at MetLife Stadium

[Bang]

As a native South Carolinian, I'd like to apologize to all of Redskins' Nation for two things. One, having a fellow South Carolinian doing something stupid in the national news and two, having a fellow South Carolinian cheer for the reject Dallas Cowgirls. I am ashamed of my home state. Please forgive us and remember that no one is perfect.

There's plenty of actual good reasons to be ashamed of your state, but this is a start, I suppose.

~Bang

[grego]

i mean, I know marines have never been known to be drunkenly violent or anything, so it's probably the correct response to blame the Cowboys fan and the whole state of Texas with him.

~Bang

as it turns out, the cowboys fan refused to stand for the national anthem and, apparently, chatted on his phone during the moment of silence for the 9/11 victims.

the drunken violent marine thing is gold, jerry, gold!

[HailGreen28]

Bringing in a weapon does suggest premeditation.

[Roger.Staubach]

Bringing in a weapon does suggest premeditation.

To a stadium in NY? Does it?

If the dude were traveling to Philthy, I would definitely say that he is/was smarter than the rest. To me, NY is borderline decision...

[Bang]

Bringing in a weapon does suggest premeditation.

i guess.

But when i type in NFL brawl on youtube and get 7500 results of people fighting in the stands one could see that it could be premeditation of protecting one's self when you know you'll be wearing an opposing jersey into the stadium..

And I know it's a dick move to not respect the flag during the anthem, but it is not cause for violence, is it?

Yeah, it's 9/11 and he probably should have, but i don't see how a member of our armed forces beating up a citizen for doing something that is not illegal is respecting the significance of the day either.

Sounds bad, but it sounds like it might have been a good idea to have the taser with him. Otherwise we might be reading about th Cowboys fan that the marine put in the hospital because he didn't stand up.

~Bang

[HailGreen28]

To a stadium in NY? Does it?

If the dude were traveling to Philthy, I would definitely say that he is/was smarter than the rest. To me, NY is borderline decision...

Begging the question, are we?

So the "rest" should bring tazers to a game in Philthy?

What I'm saying is, if it turns out the old guy was deliberately belligerent/obnoxious and started the fight, he should have the book thrown at him. In part because bringing the tazer suggests he was looking for a situation to use it.

i guess.

But when i type in NFL brawl on youtube and get 7500 results of people fighting in the stands one could see that it could be premeditation of protecting one's self when you know you'll be wearing an opposing jersey into the stadium..

And I know it's a dick move to not respect the flag during the anthem, but it is not cause for violence, is it?

Yeah, it's 9/11 and he probably should have, but i don't see how a member of our armed forces beating up a citizen for doing something that is not illegal is respecting the significance of the day either.

Sounds bad, but it sounds like it might have been a good idea to have the taser with him. Otherwise we might be reading about th Cowboys fan that the marine put in the hospital because he didn't stand up.

~Bang

Or premeditation knowing he was going to the game to talk smack and taze anyone that argued with him. It wasn't said in the report that the marine even attacked him.

Criticizing someone for not being respectful during a 9/11 ceremony, isn't grounds for being tazed by that someone. Is it?

What's been reported so far according to the link above, is that he was disruptive, there was a fight in which he ended up at the bottom of a pile of people AFTER he tazed people. If any of the pictures of Leroy was taken after the incident, it doesn't look like he was beat up at all. The police charged ONLY Leroy McKelvey.

The evidence leans toward a belligerent fan bringing a tazer to the game to use it, IMO.

[Bang]

Begging the question, are we?

So the "rest" should bring tazers to a game in Philthy?

What I'm saying is, if it turns out the old guy was deliberately belligerent/obnoxious and started the fight, he should have the book thrown at him. In part because bringing the tazer suggests he was looking for a situation to use it.

Or premeditation knowing he was going to the game to talk smack and taze anyone that argued with him. It wasn't said in the report that the marine even attacked him.

Criticizing someone for not being respectful during a 9/11 ceremony, isn't grounds for being tazed by that someone. Is it?

What's been reported so far according to the link above, is that he was disruptive, there was a fight in which he ended up at the bottom of a pile of people AFTER he tazed people. If any of the pictures of Leroy was taken after the incident, it doesn't look like he was beat up at all. The police charged ONLY Leroy McKelvey.

The evidence leans toward a belligerent fan bringing a tazer to the game to use it, IMO.

The evidence you say is leaning doesn't exist. You're pretty much assuming all of it.

You assume he was criticized and stood up and tazed the guy.

You can't even see what is happening in the video "evidence". You see a scuffle. You hear a taser. You see a Cowboys Jersey.

And mostly you see a bunch of legs and arms and bodies that don't belong to anyone in the scuffle.

I don't assume to know anything that did happen at all. That is why I started my first post with "does anyone know what happened to start this"

I know a guy got tazed by a guy wearing an opposing jersey in a stadium.

Do we have to supose that is a dangerous thing to do these days? like I said,, Youtube up NFL brawl and see how many hits you get.

You assume a 59 year old man picked a fight with a young marine because the marine asked him to respect the flag. You give no possible chance that the Marine got loud or ugly about the slight he felt.

As I said in my first post, I know our fine Marines are the very picture of self control and non-violent confrontation, but..

well, let's just say that in my experience that a great many individual marines tend to act like psychopaths.

I know it's nice to imagine they're all fine officers and gentlemen, but if you've ever had a friend join the Marines, you see what kind of person he is when he gets back from boot camp.

Very rarely are they quiet, reserved, and calm. Mostly they're pumped up, screaming nutjobs itching to get into battle and kill something. (A very fine thing for a marine to be. Don't get me wrong. We need psychos willing to storm beaches and battlefields. The Marines turns them into what they need to be.

But in the real world, quite often they can be a bit overdone.

Bottom line.

You don't know what happened.

You think you do, you're angry because you believe this guy was disrespectful.

You've extrapolated that now into a nice marine asking him kindly to stand up, and getting viciously tased for it.

that may have happened.

And it may have happened that he didnt stand up, and the marine turned around and did what young marines do a lot, and started a fight.

(to play the assumption game. this has been my only one. I have assumed this marine was fairly young. If this was a marine officer, i'd be shocked he allowed himself to be pulled into a stadium scuffle. I'd be more prepared to believe what he said. But if he's a 23 yr old private.. not so much.)

Until I do know what happened, I am not going to assume anything is true. I'll ask if anyone knows how the violence started.

One thing I do know IS a fact, is that going into an NFL stadium wearing opposing colors can be dangerous.

Hell, just read this thread. No one knows what happened. But they know he wore a Cowboys jersey.

And that is plenty enough to damn him.

In fact, I'd bet maybe a few of the great thinkers who have run off with these assumptions might be those types who would start a fight with a 59 yr old for wearing a Cowboys jersey to the stadium.

Fedex is full of knuckleheads who can't hold their liquor and haven't got the brains to learn how. Every time I go to a game I see multiple fights, without fail. Without FAIL. Every single time.

No reason not to assume some might not be here.

Since we all like ot tell Fedex Horror tales, I'll tell one that illustrates this.

My son is 15. He's been to ONE NFL football game.

thanks to Tarhog and Blade (formerly of the ES staff) we got FIELD PASSES to hang out on the sidelines before the game. My son was 9. Joe Gibbs shook his hand. Marcus Washington slapped him five. We stood five feet from Randy Moss and catcalled him in the end zone.

And you know what he remembered about the game when he told his friends about it?

the ******* 20something drunken ******** who started a fight with the 50 something year old man in front of us because the old guy gave him a look he didn't like. (the young ass was cussing like crazy.. no regard for the kids or ladies anywhere near him, which were plenty. One guy gave him an over the shoulder look, and that was all it took to start the brawl.

So, yeah, I'm not going to just assume the young man trained to kill people was being Mr. Polite in the stadium.

Likewise I'm not just going to assume a 59 year old man is looking to start trouble with a young marine because he brought a taser to accessorize his opposing jersey, just looking for an excuse to try it out.

~Bang

[Tweedr01]

wow, bang, i'm gonna assume that you don't have a very good rapport with any marines huh? and just because westy says he's one when the feagles lose doesn't mean they are all like that

i'm gonna default to the one who was charged, and not assume to place blame on anyone (that includes any person, military officer, or animal) that did not get charged with a police report. if there were more to the story don't you think they would have brought in more than just this one guy? or that there would be some other story that's gotten out? it's been 4 days, and the only story is that he tazed a Marine, that's it, I don't feel sorry for him in the least.

also, stupid isn't fixed by age, if someone is stupid when they are young, typically they will grow up and...well act stupid, lol. people learn, doesn't mean they change.

[HailGreen28]

The evidence you say is leaning doesn't exist. You're pretty much assuming all of it.

You assume he was criticized and stood up and tazed the guy.

You can't even see what is happening in the video "evidence". You see a scuffle. You hear a taser. You see a Cowboys Jersey.

And mostly you see a bunch of legs and arms and bodies that don't belong to anyone in the scuffle.

I don't assume to know anything that did happen at all. That is why I started my first post with "does anyone know what happened to start this"

I know a guy got tazed by a guy wearing an opposing jersey in a stadium.

Do we have to supose that is a dangerous thing to do these days? like I said,, Youtube up NFL brawl and see how many hits you get.

You assume a 59 year old man picked a fight with a young marine because the marine asked him to respect the flag. You give no possible chance that the Marine got loud or ugly about the slight he felt.

As I said in my first post, I know our fine Marines are the very picture of self control and non-violent confrontation, but..

well, let's just say that in my experience that a great many individual marines tend to act like psychopaths.

I know it's nice to imagine they're all fine officers and gentlemen, but if you've ever had a friend join the Marines, you see what kind of person he is when he gets back from boot camp.

Very rarely are they quiet, reserved, and calm. Mostly they're pumped up, screaming nutjobs itching to get into battle and kill something. (A very fine thing for a marine to be. Don't get me wrong. We need psychos willing to storm beaches and battlefields. The Marines turns them into what they need to be.

But in the real world, quite often they can be a bit overdone.

Bottom line.

You don't know what happened.

You think you do, you're angry because you believe this guy was disrespectful.

You've extrapolated that now into a nice marine asking him kindly to stand up, and getting viciously tased for it.

that may have happened.

And it may have happened that he didnt stand up, and the marine turned around and did what young marines do a lot, and started a fight.

(to play the assumption game. this has been my only one. I have assumed this marine was fairly young. If this was a marine officer, i'd be shocked he allowed himself to be pulled into a stadium scuffle. I'd be more prepared to believe what he said. But if he's a 23 yr old private.. not so much.)

Until I do know what happened, I am not going to assume anything is true. I'll ask if anyone knows how the violence started.

One thing I do know IS a fact, is that going into an NFL stadium wearing opposing colors can be dangerous.

Hell, just read this thread. No one knows what happened. But they know he wore a Cowboys jersey.

And that is plenty enough to damn him.

In fact, I'd bet maybe a few of the great thinkers who have run off with these assumptions might be those types who would start a fight with a 59 yr old for wearing a Cowboys jersey to the stadium.

Fedex is full of knuckleheads who can't hold their liquor and haven't got the brains to learn how. Every time I go to a game I see multiple fights, without fail. Without FAIL. Every single time.

No reason not to assume some might not be here.

Since we all like ot tell Fedex Horror tales, I'll tell one that illustrates this.

My son is 15. He's been to ONE NFL football game.

thanks to Tarhog and Blade (formerly of the ES staff) we got FIELD PASSES to hang out on the sidelines before the game. My son was 9. Joe Gibbs shook his hand. Marcus Washington slapped him five. We stood five feet from Randy Moss and catcalled him in the end zone.

And you know what he remembered about the game when he told his friends about it?

the ******* 20something drunken ******** who started a fight with the 50 something year old man in front of us because the old guy gave him a look he didn't like. (the young ass was cussing like crazy.. no regard for the kids or ladies anywhere near him, which were plenty. One guy gave him an over the shoulder look, and that was all it took to start the brawl.

So, yeah, I'm not going to just assume the young man trained to kill people was being Mr. Polite in the stadium.

Likewise I'm not just going to assume a 59 year old man is looking to start trouble with a young marine because he brought a taser to accessorize his opposing jersey, just looking for an excuse to try it out.

~Bang

Wow, that's a pretty big wall of text to say that I don't know what happened. After you were the one making the assumptions:

Otherwise we might be reading about th Cowboys fan that the marine put in the hospital because he didn't stand up.

Show me where I assumed there's no chance that someone other than the guy with the tazer started the fight.

What I did was list the evidence. Guy brought a tazer into the stadium. Guy with the tazer did act disruptively, other guy(s?) criticized him for it. Neither reason either guy should be attacked physically at that point, tazed or otherwise. A fight happened. Don't know who started it physically. Guy with tazer ended up at bottom of a pile, with no face contusions afterwards. Only the guy with the tazer was arrested.

I said the evidence LEANS towards the guy with the tazer being the problem, and I stand behind that statement. If he started the fight, hope the law throws the book at him. This is an escalation that will only make stadium experiences WORSE.

[Tweedr01]

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201109/nfl-fan-uses-religious-self-defense-stun-gun-use

So apparently the guy is a Jehovah's Witness and it's against his religion to stand for the national anthem. He tried to leave his seat in the middle of the national anthem after talking, and sitting during the national anthem, and no one was going to move out of his way. STUN GUN TIME!

[pjfootballer]

As a native South Carolinian, I'd like to apologize to all of Redskins' Nation for two things. One, having a fellow South Carolinian doing something stupid in the national news and two, having a fellow South Carolinian cheer for the reject Dallas Cowgirls. I am ashamed of my home state. Please forgive us and remember that no one is perfect.

I'm not orignally from here, but I'd like to change the state motto to this:

South Carolina, first in succession, last in everything else.

Since it seems SC is one of the last, if not the last to pass laws that are already in place in other states.

There's plenty of actual good reasons to be ashamed of your state, but this is a start, I suppose.

~Bang

Hey, hey, hey, watch it, I have to live here.

---------- Post added September-15th-2011 at 11:22 AM ----------

as it turns out, the cowboys fan refused to stand for the national anthem and, apparently, chatted on his phone during the moment of silence for the 9/11 victims.

the drunken violent marine thing is gold, jerry, gold!

And some people need to mind their own damn business. I'm not saying not standing, talking on the cell or bring a taser in the stadium is right, but alot of confrontations could be avoided if people would just mind their own business and not take everything so personally. And FWIW, there was a ton of noise at Fed Ex during the supposed "moment of silence" such as 1/4 of the crowd changing USA, talking or being obnoxious.

[Redskins Life]

So, I guess it is against the JW's dogmatic code of theology to show respect? If the guy didn't want to stand for religious reasons during the national anthem, that is one thing, and his right. He should have sat respectfully in his seat and left it at that. Talking on the phone during a moment of silence? That is pure rudeness, especially in any religious sense due to that moment being marked as a time for prayer for those that choose to do so. I'm not saying he deserved to be beat down for that, but just has he has the right to not stand, every person around him has the right to express to him that he is acting like a jerk. There is no need to taze anyone for expressing their opinion. It is very sad and disgusting how some in our society have become, and how they abuse their rights and freedoms. :doh:

[RichmondRedskin88]

"How the **** did he get in with that thing?"

[Tweedr01]

So, I guess it is against the JW's dogmatic code of theology to show respect? If the guy didn't want to stand for religious reasons during the national anthem, that is one thing, and his right. He should have sat respectfully in his seat and left it at that. Talking on the phone during a moment of silence? That is pure rudeness, especially in any religious sense due to that moment being marked as a time for prayer for those that choose to do so. I'm not saying he deserved to be beat down for that, but just has he has the right to not stand, every person around him has the right to express to him that he is acting like a jerk. There is no need to taze anyone for expressing their opinion. It is very sad and disgusting how some in our society have become, and how they abuse their rights and freedoms. :doh:

yup, and those who are standing in respect for the national anthem and moment of silence also have the right to at least just stand, not move, for a couple of seconds to pay their respect. this guy didn't have to stand, but talking on his cell during, then trying to push his way through others in the aisle during, he brought it on himself.

[pjfootballer]

So, I guess it is against the JW's dogmatic code of theology to show respect? If the guy didn't want to stand for religious reasons during the national anthem, that is one thing, and his right. He should have sat respectfully in his seat and left it at that. Talking on the phone during a moment of silence? That is pure rudeness, especially in any religious sense due to that moment being marked as a time for prayer for those that choose to do so. I'm not saying he deserved to be beat down for that, but just has he has the right to not stand, every person around him has the right to express to him that he is acting like a jerk. There is no need to taze anyone for expressing their opinion. It is very sad and disgusting how some in our society have become, and how they abuse their rights and freedoms. :doh:

I agree with you that everyone around him has the right to express their opinion of him being a jerk, but again, if some people would just mind their own business and not escalate things, maybe it doesn't happen. Maybe the people around him should have just ignored him and concentrated on their moment of silence and prayers. Sounds like they were more concerned with what was going on around them and not what they were doing themselves. Sometimes you should turn the other cheek. I can't tell you how many times in grocery stores, parking lots, sporting events that I've wanted to lay into someone. But you know what? They just aren't worth the anger and I'd just end up getting myself in trouble over nothing.

[Tweedr01]

I agree with you that everyone around him has the right to express their opinion of him being a jerk, but again, if some people would just mind their own business and not escalate things, maybe it doesn't happen. Maybe the people around him should have just ignored him and concentrated on their moment of silence and prayers. Sounds like they were more concerned with what was going on around them and not what they were doing themselves. Sometimes you should turn the other cheek. I can't tell you how many times in grocery stores, parking lots, sporting events that I've wanted to lay into someone. But you know what? They just aren't worth the anger and I'd just end up getting myself in trouble over nothing.

from what i understand they were annoyed with what he was doing and said so, but they didn't physically escalate it, they just chose to stand still during the national anthem and moment of silence when he tried to push his way through to the aisle.

[HailGreen28]

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201109/nfl-fan-uses-religious-self-defense-stun-gun-use

So apparently the guy is a Jehovah's Witness and it's against his religion to stand for the national anthem. He tried to leave his seat in the middle of the national anthem after talking, and sitting during the national anthem, and no one was going to move out of his way. STUN GUN TIME!

I thought you were joking about stun gun time till I read the your link. Wow.

If true, throw leroy UNDER the jail.

[Ghost of]

Wait, now carrying the means of defense is "premeditation?" That's ridiculous. I know that a stadium environment is probably without a bunch of drunk people carrying weapons but to me, that's exactly the place you want to be armed. I'm not defending this fan, but let's not make categorical claims that are absurd on their face.

[grego]

You give no possible chance that the Marine got loud or ugly about the slight he felt.

As I said in my first post, I know our fine Marines are the very picture of self control and non-violent confrontation, but..

well, let's just say that in my experience that a great many individual marines tend to act like psychopaths.

I know it's nice to imagine they're all fine officers and gentlemen, but if you've ever had a friend join the Marines, you see what kind of person he is when he gets back from boot camp.

Very rarely are they quiet, reserved, and calm. Mostly they're pumped up, screaming nutjobs itching to get into battle and kill something. (A very fine thing for a marine to be. Don't get me wrong. We need psychos willing to storm beaches and battlefields. The Marines turns them into what they need to be.

But in the real world, quite often they can be a bit overdone.

jeezuz, dude. isnt that quite a generalization? it sounds like youve had bad experiences with marines and are now painting them all with a broad brush. even to the point that you are (kind of) siding with a clearly disrespecful cowboys fan over a marine, and on 9-11 no less.

am i completely reading your points wrong?

[HailToTheRedskins14]

There's plenty of actual good reasons to be ashamed of your state, but this is a start, I suppose.

~Bang

Luckily we honestly don't care what anyone thinks about us.

[Bang]

Wow, that's a pretty big wall of text to say that I don't know what happened. After you were the one making the assumptions:

It is a pretty big useless wall of text. Hell, it was lunchtime and I'm bored.

Well, the word "might" assumes nothing other than it might have happened. A bird might have flown into the marine's coke when he wsn't looking, and he might have blamed the cowboy's fans wife, and the taser might have fallen out of someone else's boot onto the Marine while the Cowboys fan was attempting to kiss him.

Might. Means that something else might have also happened.

Show me where I assumed there's no chance that someone other than the guy with the tazer started the fight.

What I did was list the evidence. Guy brought a tazer into the stadium. Guy with the tazer did act disruptively, other guy(s?) criticized him for it. Has this been shown? Did he disrupt anyone by sitting down? Was he criticized? Neither reason either guy should be attacked physically at that point, tazed or otherwise. A fight happened. Don't know who started it physically. Guy with tazer ended up at bottom of a pile, with no face contusions afterwards. Only the guy with the tazer was arrested.

I said the evidence LEANS towards the guy with the tazer being the problem, and I stand behind that statement. If he started the fight, hope the law throws the book at him. This is an escalation that will only make stadium experiences WORSE

Perhaps I just kept misunderstanding it when you said "The evidence leans toward a belligerent fan bringing a tazer to the game to use it, IMO".

and "Bringing in a weapon does suggest premeditation."

One might think you spent the first few posts you contributed saying that the Cowboys fan came spoiling for a fight. I can see now how all of that took into account the other evidence.

If he started the fight, I agree throw the book at him. And, doubly, I say throw the book at him anyway for bringing the tazer in, that isn't allowed. The only thng I'm even saying about the taser is that if you are wearing opposing colors in most NFL stadiums you are a target of not so friendly, and sometimes downright violent abuse. He may have brought it for defense in case that happened, or he may, as you seem to have suggested, brought it with the intent of starting a fight. (He may have actually brought it because he knew he was going to intentionally be a jerk during the anthem because he's a Truther. Who knows.)

My problem is not necessarily with your opinion, but the overall attitude in the thread that he was obviously guilty because he has a Cowboys jersey on.

I don't even agree with him sitting down, I think it's disrespectful and very bad taste to talk on the phone, not to mention it's In NY. There comes a time that even if you don't want to, you show some respect. (I'm an atheist. Whenever I am with someone who says Grace before a meal, I bow my head and close my eyes and respect it. y'know? I could be a dick, but it's better to just be nice for a minute.)

If I were there I would have noticed it, I would not have liked it, but i doubt I'd have instigated anything more.. it's just not worth it to play cop to some ******* when i want to see the football game.

My only message in this thread is that word "IF".. he may not have started it. He may have.

Regardless of who started it intially, the fact is we all too often forget there is any such a thing as the social graces.

Especialy in football stadiums when people have on the rival's colors.

~Bang

---------- Post added September-15th-2011 at 06:23 PM ----------

jeezuz, dude. isnt that quite a generalization? it sounds like youve had bad experiences with marines and are now painting them all with a broad brush. even to the point that you are (kind of) siding with a clearly disrespecful cowboys fan over a marine, and on 9-11 no less.

am i completely reading your points wrong?

Yeah, you sort of are.

Note the broad brushes on the front page.

No one even considers anythng other than the scumbag 59 yr old guy started it up with a marine.

Just offering a counter, that's all.

And I may be genralizing about the 19 yr olds coming home from Marine boot camp. But damn ,every one I've ever seen is just CRAZY.

Not bad, mind you. But friggin' nuts. They just spent 2 months learning how to kill everything, they're 19, indestructible, stronger than they've ever been in their lives.

Marine privates don't need much excuse to get rowdy, as has been my experience.

But let me be clear. That's not a bad thing. To do what they do they have to be gung friggin HO crazy. I respect the hell out of them. But they are trained to be on a hair trigger, ready for mayhem.

and i admit i am assuming this marine in the fight is a young guy.

~Bang

[dallasfan]

The Cowboy fan is a **** for being disrespectfull during the national anthem/taps and should be thrown in jail for bringing a weapon into a stadium. However, if he just punched the marine in the mouth, I would say the marine got what he deserved. Physically blocking an exit, is a provoking action and a borderline threat/assault, had this man been unarmed, I could see charges being pressed against the marine.

[HailGreen28]

Wait, now carrying the means of defense is "premeditation?" That's ridiculous.

Yes, carrying a weapon to a public place, where such weapons are prohibited and not normally used by Joe Public, and using said weapon, does imply you intended to use it when you brought it in. Why is this so hard to understand?

I know that a stadium environment is probably without a bunch of drunk people carrying weapons but to me, that's exactly the place you want to be armed. I'm not defending this fan, but let's not make categorical claims that are absurd on their face.

What? Are you really saying that anywhere a "stadium environment" exists, visitors should be armed? Are you insane?

And yes, you are defending the fan, with the most absurd claims in this thread. Leroy from South Carolina carried a tazer to a Jets game, got into an altercation with multiple other fans, and used said tazer. The police charged ONLY Leroy in the incident. Here's hoping they throw the book at him.

---------- Post added September-15th-2011 at 05:54 PM ----------

It is a pretty big useless wall of text. Hell, it was lunchtime and I'm bored.

Well, the word "might" assumes nothing other than it might have happened. A bird might have flown into the marine's coke when he wsn't looking, and he might have blamed the cowboy's fans wife, and the taser might have fallen out of someone else's boot onto the Marine while the Cowboys fan was attempting to kiss him.

Might. Means that something else might have also happened.

By that standard, the tazer guy might have been stomping on a burning american flag, while giving everybody the bird, and spitting on everybody around him while the National anthem was playing, who knows.

Perhaps I just kept misunderstanding it when you said "The evidence leans toward a belligerent fan bringing a tazer to the game to use it, IMO".

and "Bringing in a weapon does suggest premeditation."

One might think you spent the first few posts you contributed saying that the Cowboys fan came spoiling for a fight. I can see now how all of that took into account the other evidence.

My FIRST post this thread, was correctly pointing out that him bringing a tazer and using it, suggests premeditation. Maybe you're confusing earlier posts this thread with mine.

If he started the fight, I agree throw the book at him. And, doubly, I say throw the book at him anyway for bringing the tazer in, that isn't allowed. The only thng I'm even saying about the taser is that if you are wearing opposing colors in most NFL stadiums you are a target of not so friendly, and sometimes downright violent abuse. He may have brought it for defense in case that happened, or he may, as you seem to have suggested, brought it with the intent of starting a fight. (He may have actually brought it because he knew he was going to intentionally be a jerk during the anthem because he's a Truther. Who knows.)

My problem is not necessarily with your opinion, but the overall attitude in the thread that he was obviously guilty because he has a Cowboys jersey on.

As much as I hate the Dallass Cowpukes, I don't think that way, and haven't said so this thread.

I don't even agree with him sitting down, I think it's disrespectful and very bad taste to talk on the phone, not to mention it's In NY. There comes a time that even if you don't want to, you show some respect. (I'm an atheist. Whenever I am with someone who says Grace before a meal, I bow my head and close my eyes and respect it. y'know? I could be a dick, but it's better to just be nice for a minute.)

If I were there I would have noticed it, I would not have liked it, but i doubt I'd have instigated anything more.. it's just not worth it to play cop to some ******* when i want to see the football game.

Check out the link Tweedr posted. It's starting to look like the guy with the tazer was the instigator, not the reverse.

My only message in this thread is that word "IF".. he may not have started it. He may have.

Regardless of who started it intially, the fact is we all too often forget there is any such a thing as the social graces.

Especialy in football stadiums when people have on the rival's colors.

"If" is too often a way for people to throw in crap there is absolutely no evidence for, to support one side of a disagreement. I don't think you did it to be dishonest, but it's kinda weak to say "if" then accuse the marine with no evidence. We don't even know if the tazer guy was aiming at someone else in that incident.

Why would you go to a place you're expecting to get into a fight, and then try to act like you didn't mean to get into a fight?

[NewCliche21]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/15/coming-to-an-nfl-stadium-near-you-enhanced-pat-downs/related/

Thanks, Dallas fan.

[skinsfanindallas88]

Before you nuke dallas...give a heads up to us redskins fans who live here

Thanks in advance