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turnersportsdesk.com: Trade Talk: Redskins and Bills talking Chris Cooley for Lee Evans (M.E.T.)

DRSmith

By DRSmith
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Jahbird

Jahbird

Posted
Posted
ELITE TE's

1. Antonio Gates

2. Vernon Davis

3. Tony Gonzales

4. Dallas Clark

5. Greg Olsen

6. Mercedes Lewis

7. Jason Witten

8. Brent Celek

9. Shiancoe

10. Kellen Winslow

Middle tier tight ends

This is where your Jermichael Finley's and your Chris Cooley's are. These guys are products of their systems or situations and are nothing special. You can pretty much plug and play.

This list is comical. On what planet is Mercedes Lewis a better tight end than Chris Cooley, or Kellen Winslow for that matter? I'd love to play in your fantasy league. Doormat...

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jivelikenice

jivelikenice

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Where did you get that from?

In my opinion Cooley today is the better player

I dare anyone to try and prove that Fred Davis is the better TE

Outside of youth he's got nothing on Cooley

I mentioned our history because of how Cooley should rank up there with the fans compared to our past

Couple of problems with your "theory"

First off this is Davis's last year in his current contract

Second problem, Davis has never been able to rise above Cooley and make who ever was coaching him play him more.

Third problem, Cooley is signed for 3 more seasons, moving him would hit our cap

Fourth problem, Potential to possibly surpass Cooley's stats is just that...potential. I don't think Davis would be able to do that let alone feel confident in him being able to do what you suggest

If home grown talent actually meant a damn to you then why would you omit that Cooley is exactly that

Home grown Probowl caliber talent

Cooley's done it on the field for the past 8 years

While Davis has sat on the bench minus a few games doing nothing

And you want to throw away said home grown talent for the "possibility" of getting a trade up scenario?

Your whole entire point on this matter is nothing but speculation

Is Davis better then Cooley? No but he has "potential to be"

Is getting said 3rd or 4th rounder for Cooley guaranteed to get us a trade up like your thinking? No but there is "potential that could happen"

I really don't get how someone who's been here all these years could be cast off for something called "potential to work out" by some of you. To me that's not a good reason at all to move a probowler in this league who's a team leader, under a good contract, and very much still productive.

I understand your sentiment, but its not the right football decision. The Patriots, Eagles, & Ravens would not keep a Cooley and let Fred walk. They'd go with the cheaper, younger option, who you correctly point out potentially may be better (but we just don't know yet.) Frankly, thats what practice is for. We've seen Fred play well in flashes and if practice supports that, eventually you have to gamble on youth. Also you shouldn't discount Fred's productivity. 9 tds in limited playing time should mean something.

Also you keep referring to Cooley as a probowler. He hasn't made the probowl since '08 so we don't know if he's still a pro bowl caliber tight end. Given his injuries (concussions, knee, ankle) you don't know if he can still play at that level.

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

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Middle tier tight ends

This is where your Jermichael Finley's and your Chris Cooley's are. These guys are products of their systems or situations and are nothing special. You can pretty much plug and play.

You're not seriously calling Cooley a "product of a system", are you? lol...

Three different coaches, four different Offensive Coordinators, four different offensive schemes, SIX different QBs throwing him the ball...and you call that a 'system'? :ols:

Through all of it Cooley has remained ridiculously consistent in his production...that is to be admired...not ridiculed as "nothing special".

---------- Post added August-12th-2011 at 01:02 PM ----------

I understand your sentiment, but its not the right football decision. The Patriots, Eagles, & Ravens would not keep a Cooley and let Fred walk. They'd go with the cheaper, younger option, who you correctly point out potentially may be better (but we just don't know yet.)

When have any of those teams done this?

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SWFLSkins

SWFLSkins

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I'd give him top 15 sometimes, but he doesn't sniff the top 10 as far as numbers go. I don't dislike Cooley, I dislike the fans that think he's the greatest thing ever. Like you guys who are on here now crying like it'll be the curse of the bambino if we trade the man.

He's good, he is not great. He never was the best in the league.

USA TODAY Top 10 tight ends

1. Jason Witten (64) Dallas Cowboys

2. Antonio Gates (63) San Diego Chargers

3. Dallas Clark (43) Indianapolis Colts

4. Tony Gonzalez (41) Atlanta Falcons

5. Vernon Davis (35) San Francisco 49ers

T6. Jermichael Finley (25) Green Bay Packers

T6. Marcedes Lewis (25) Jaguars

8. Brandon Pettigrew (13) Detroit Lions

T9. Dustin Keller (11) New York Jets

T9. Kellen Winslow II (11) Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Others receiving votes: Chris Cooley, Washington Redskins (10); Owen Daniels, Houston Texans (10); Heath Miller, Pittsburgh Steelers (9); Rob Gronkowski, New England Patriots (7); Zach Miller, Oakland Raiders (6); Todd Heap, Baltimore Ravens (5); Greg Olsen, Chicago Bears (4); Aaron Hernandez, Patriots (2); Visanthe Shiancoe, Minnesota Vikings (1).

About the voting: The panel was made up of seven USA TODAY NFL staffers. First-place votes are worth 10 points, second-place votes nine points, etc

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2011-07-24-top-10-tight-ends_n.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Ranking the Tight Ends

1. Jason Witten, Dallas Cowboys

2. Antonio Gates, San Diego Chargers

3. Dallas Clark, Indianapolis Colts

4. Vernon Davis, San Francisco 49ers

5. Chris Cooley, Washington Redskins

6. Tony Gonzalez, Atlanta Falcons

7. Kellen Winslow Jr., Tampa Bay

8. Marcedes Lewis, Jacksonville Jaguars

9. Brandon Pettigrew, Detroit Lions

10. Jermichael Finley, Green Bay

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/25756/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-tight-ends

------------------------------------------------------------------

And in fairness to Cooley look at the other top tight ends and who was throwing them the ball?

I was for trading him if the Skins got some team to overpay, but to not acknowledge his ability is just wrong. I certainly would trade him for Lee Evans, but maybe picks or a starting OL.

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ouvan59

ouvan59

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Also you keep referring to Cooley as a probowler. He hasn't made the probowl since '08 so we don't know if he's still a pro bowl caliber tight end. Given his injuries (concussions, knee, ankle) you don't know if he can still play at that level.

Huh? He just had his career high in yards last year? Oh, but I guess because a bunch of guys who saw him play once or not at all didn't vote him into a meaningless game that means he's not any good.

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addicted

addicted

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Posted
Actually, my entire post on this matter is because Cooley is getting old, and we have a young TE in his contract year that we need to see what we have in. Im not attached to the past, its been a great eight years, but we need to get value back on Cooley while he still has some, that's the genesis of my thought process.

So why keep the lesser known, lesser talented TE who's in a contract year?

I mean seriously you think that Cooley has no value going forward?

To me that's about the dumbest thing you can say about Cooley

Last year dude was

3rd in yards receiving

2nd in passing receptions

He is only 29 years old

Compare that age to his peers

Tony Gonzalez - 35

Jason Witten - 29

Antonio Gates - 31

Dallas Clark - 32

Vernon Davis - 27

Mercades Lewis - 27

Again it deserves repeating...

Cooley was 3rd in yards receiving for a Tight End in this offense

Cooley was 2nd in passing receptions for a Tight End in this offense

Interesting maybe only to me...

Mecades Lewis signed a huge contract this offseason, 8/5/2011: Signed a five-year, $35 million contract. The deal contains $17 million guaranteed.

Cooley as comparison 8/1/2007: Signed a six-year, $30 million contract. The deal contains $14 million guaranteed, including an $11 million roster bonus in the second year. Annual $100,000 workout bonuses are available 2009-2013. 2011: $3.7 million, 2012: $3.8 million, 2013: $3.85

To me Cooley's outplayed his contract how many Redskins can we say that about during this time?

As far as Davis not being able to "rise" above Cooley, there has been so much turnover of coaches, schemes and philosophy in the coaching dept, it would have been difficult for any young player to rise above a probowl vet. what other player has done that since Davis was drafted?

Ok so basically your arguement is that Coach Shannahan is an idiot who can't spot quality Tight Ends?

Example 1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Jones

Example 2:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SharSh00.htm

I'm going to stop here.

His history with productive tight ends stands by itself

He knows this position and I believe if he thought Davis was the long term answer here and not Cooley he would play him more then 21 receptions on the year.

as far as our cap situation goes, we are so far below it, and him being paid most of his guaranteed money already makes it very managable.

So as far as team management you think it's better for us to do the following?

1. Spend millions for a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick hurting the cap simply because we have "money to burn"

2. Enter the market when tight ends are getting more money so we can pay Fred Davis who based on the production wasn't much of an option for us in the passing game

Your fourth problem however isn't really a problem, its just your opinion... so not really a "problem" so to speak. Homegrown talent does "Mean a damn" to me, im just in favor for YOUNG home grown talent. I don't have any heart strings attached to Cooley like some here do.

I have no mancrush or heart strings attached to Cooley personally

I do have great respect for Cooley's contribution on offense since we smartly traded up to get him in 2004

Cooley is a great player for us

Davis on the other hands got nothing on Cooley except for his age

Lots of people are younger then Chris Cooley, so what?

Age doesn't equal ability

As far as my post being speculation, I never said it was anything otherwise, we are allowed to have our own opinions arent we? My estimation of his potential is more then just broad speculation though. He was the best TE available in his draft. His college numbers speak for themself. Dude is a very good receiving TE (who blocks much better then Cooley does) with a huge upside. Its hard for someone to get on a playing field when they are directly behind a Probowl TE, so him "sitting doing nothing" as you say is a little misleading.

I agree you are allowed an opinion just saying I disagree with it

And I don't think that him being in the 2008 draft class actually speaks well of him, rather the opposite.

I agree he is a very good TE, but he isn't great and he isn't a monster like Finley or Jimmy Graham (6-6 Ft) so not real sure about his "upside" either

And to me I see too many question marks as a fan of the team to question what your suggesting we should do

If Fred Davis is that much of a baller to kick the 2nd best pass catching tight end we've ever had here in this teams history in his prime to the curb then why don't we trade Fred Davis?

Oh wait...

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