AP: USA downgraded by S&P

[McD5]

For whatever faults he has, Trump's appeal increases at times like this.

We need somebody with some business acumen leading this country.

[Heisenberg]

For whatever faults he has, Trump's appeal increases at times like this.

We need somebody with some business acumen leading this country.

Be sure to let us all know who you end up supporting.

I'll be sure to vote for the exact opposite.

[Koolblue13]

For whatever faults he has, Trump's appeal increases at times like this.

We need somebody with some business acumen leading this country.

Well, he does have plenty of experience bouncing back from bankruptcy.

[McD5]

Well, he does have plenty of experience bouncing back from bankruptcy.

I don't believe he has ever personally declared bk--although several of his projects have. I do know he was close one time, but negotiated his way out of it.

Regardless, with 15%? of Americans currently on food stamps, one could argue that 15% of our country is currently bk to some extent.

If he is serious at all--which I don't believe he is--this would be the perfect time to come out and say that this downgrade was the last straw, and that we need someone who knows something about business to fix this mess.

While that message won't appeal to libs like JMU, who will vote D no matter what--similiar to those who would vote for Marion Barry--it would appeal to many moderates who are sick of the nonsense.

[PeterMP]

Anybody want to tell me that failure to reach a real long term debt deal, which was essentially spear headed by the inability of the tea party to compromise on a single thing, and the general political disfucntionaliyt that was demonstrated wasn't an important driver for the stock market decline Thrus, now?

[aREDSKIN]

You mean like in the forms of filling government jobs and put money into infrastructure on federal programs and with states who are willing to do the same

You mean use and pay them with money we don't have??? IMO you haven't a clue on how to fix anything without the gov't involved. Gov't is why we are in the mess we are in. Your position is that Gov't solves everything. A demonstrably wrong position to take imo.

[DRSmith]

What a great idea! Have the government hire all the unemployed and our debtroblem is solved in one fell swoop.

Well if they are working and things get booming again as they are buying cars, homes and other goods then you can start to make cuts and they find jobs in the private sector

---------- Post added August-6th-2011 at 02:53 PM ----------

You mean use and pay them with money we don't have??? IMO you haven't a clue on how to fix anything without the gov't involved. Gov't is why we are in the mess we are in. Your position is that Gov't solves everything. A demonstrably wrong position to take imo.

No you are in the mess you are due to greed and ignoring fiscal conservatism so the few can get rich.

I know that the message that has been packaged and given to you for years is government is the problem but the same folks that preach that message tend to be the ones who get into government are mess things up.

---------- Post added August-6th-2011 at 02:56 PM ----------

I don't believe he has ever personally declared bk--although several of his projects have. I do know he was close one time, but negotiated his way out of it.

Regardless, with 15%? of Americans currently on food stamps, one could argue that 15% of our country is currently bk to some extent.

If he is serious at all--which I don't believe he is--this would be the perfect time to come out and say that this downgrade was the last straw, and that we need someone who knows something about business to fix this mess.

While that message won't appeal to libs like JMU, who will vote D no matter what--similiar to those who would vote for Marion Barry--it would appeal to many moderates who are sick of the nonsense.

The guy has declared bankruptcy 4 times how does anyone have a casino go bankrupt?

[Heisenberg]

McD5 - continuing to prove how little you know about anything.

I've voted for one Democrat in my life.

If the Republicans would put up anyone who wasn't a lunatic (or who wouldn't choose a lunatic to be VP) then I might consider them.

As it stands now, I'm fine with my 2008 vote compared to the alternative.

[Madison Redskin]

For whatever faults he has, Trump's appeal increases at times like this.

We need somebody with some business acumen leading this country.

Maybe he could teach Americans how to be born to insanely rich parents, inherit large portions of major cities, and whore themselves out.

[DRSmith]

Maybe he could teach Americans how to be born to insanely rich parents, inherit large portions of major cities, and whore themselves out.

Whores every where are offended over being compared to Trump

[sacase]

Anybody want to tell me that failure to reach a real long term debt deal, which was essentially spear headed by the inability of the tea party to compromise on a single thing, and the general political disfucntionaliyt that was demonstrated wasn't an important driver for the stock market decline Thrus, now?

Look here are the real facts, as much as it may hurt, the tea party did not cause this. If the Dems and GOP (Non tea party) would have been able to find common ground, the tea party would have been irrelevant. But the fact of the matter is, congress as a whole could not agree on this. Its a cop out to blame the tea party as they control nothing. There are enough votes outside of the tea party to make this happen still regardless of that they want.

[Spooky]

It looks like the tea party is the only ones that got this right. That is what they stand for right: lower the deficit. I will no longer make fun of them. What is funny is it just a couple of months ago Obama and Reid wanted another stimulas package. Can you imagine?

[PeterMP]

Look here are the real facts, as much as it may hurt, the tea party did not cause this. If the Dems and GOP (Non tea party) would have been able to find common ground, the tea party would have been irrelevant. But the fact of the matter is, congress as a whole could not agree on this. Its a cop out to blame the tea party as they control nothing. There are enough votes outside of the tea party to make this happen still regardless of that they want.

I think distinguishing between the GOP and the tea party is not trivial as the whole GOP is affected by the tea party. How many members of the GOP can't support any sort of tax increases because they are afraid of the reaction and the future support of the tea party?

[mardi gras skin]

I think distinguishing between the GOP and the tea party is not trivial as the whole GOP is affected by the tea party. How many members of the GOP can't support any sort of tax increases because they are afraid of the reaction and the future support of the tea party?

No different than the Democrats:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/07/pelosi-says-house-dems-wont-support-entitlement-benefit-cuts-in-debt-limit-deal.html

Pelosi: House Democrats Won't Support Entitlement Cuts in Debt-Limit Deal

While Republicans in the House and Senate have been declaring for weeks that they won't support any type of tax increase as part of a debt-limit deal, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi drew her own line in the sand Thursday: House Democrats won't support cuts in benefits to Social Security or Medicare as part of the deal to raise the debt ceiling.

After meeting at the White House with President Obama and other congressional leaders, Pelosi told reporters that changes to Social Security and Medicare should be on their own "table," and that any savings from those programs should be used to strengthen those programs, not used to finance a debt deal.

Her comments are a reminder that some votes from House Democrats will likely be necessary to pass a bipartisan deal on the reducing the deficit and raising the debt limit. The number of Democratic votes that will be needed depends entirely on how many Tea Party-backed and conservative Republicans buck Speaker Boehner and refuse to support a debt-limit hike. It is also a reminder that not only does President Obama have to consider the anti-tax line from Republican leaders Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, but also the fact that his party might revolt against big entitlement changes as well.

Sacase is right. The Tea Party was only relevant because there were competing groups who were equally obstinate.

[PeterMP]

No different than the Democrats:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/07/pelosi-says-house-dems-wont-support-entitlement-benefit-cuts-in-debt-limit-deal.html

Pelosi: House Democrats Won't Support Entitlement Cuts in Debt-Limit Deal

Sacase is right. The Tea Party was only relevant because there were competing groups who were equally obstinate.

Except, Obama, who is generally considered the leader of the said he would support cuts in entitlements.

What to show me the corresponding Republican?

[mardi gras skin]

I'd appreciate it if you could show me where Democrats (especially Pelosi and Reid) agreed with Obama that they would consider entitlement cuts. Without that, it doesn't matter what Obama was willing to do. Everything I've read says that Obama was willing to compromise but that he was not able to lead his own party.

On this issue, he was not the leader because his party wouldn't follow.

[PeterMP]

I'd appreciate it if you could show me where Democrats (especially Pelosi and Reid) agreed with Obama that they would consider entitlement cuts. Without that, it doesn't matter what Obama was willing to do. Everything I've read says that Obama was willing to compromise but that he was not able to lead his own party.

On this issue, he was not the leader because his party wouldn't follow.

I can't, but I know you understand the idea of political negotiations and the concept of good cop and bad cop. The fact of the matter is that for one party a major player showed up and said I'm willing to make compromises that would have allowed for a long term debt ceiling deal to have been reached (wich is what S&P is really saying the wanted), and it wasn't the Republicans.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

http://www.standardandpoors.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobheadername3=MDT-Type&blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3DUS_Downgraded_AA%2B.pdf&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobheadername1=content-type&blobwhere=1243942957443&blobheadervalue3=UTF-8

Congress was unwilling to raise taxes or reduce entitlements. Both sides dug in. Here we are.

Except that's not true. Obama had Medicare on the table if it coincided with tax increases. So, the white house was willing to compromise and provide both pieces that s and p was looking for. The tea party, not evn the whole GOP, dug in and refused anything with any tax increases, even if it was in exchange for bigger cuts.

[mardi gras skin]

I can't, but I know you understand the idea of political negotiations and the concept of good cop and bad cop.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/pelosi-medicare-and-social-security-cuts-will-compromise-vote-on-debt-limit-bill.php

Pelosi: Medicare, Social Security Benefit Cuts Are Line In The Sand On Debt Limit Bill

After a contentious White House meeting with President Obama and other Congressional leaders, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) returned to the Capitol and drew an important red line: Members of her caucus won't vote for a grand bargain to raise the debt limit and reduce future deficits if the final deal includes cuts to Medicare and Social Security benefits -- and that means it probably won't pass.

"You [asked], 'could the changes compromise the vote?'" Pelosi said at a Thursday afternoon briefing near the House chamber. "I said yes."

Peter, that isn't Good Cop, Bad Cop. That's Good Cop, Screw You Cop.

Obama couldn't push for it because his party wouldn't let him.

---------- Post added August-6th-2011 at 05:33 PM ----------

Except that's not true. Obama had Medicare on the table if it coincided with tax increases. So, the white house was willing to compromise and provide both pieces that s and p was looking for. The tea party, not evn the whole GOP, dug in and refused anything with any tax increases, even if it was in exchange for bigger cuts.

Obama did not have the power or the leadership to put Medicare on the table. His own party defied him and refused to allow it. It was never an option.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

He did put it on the table. Pelosi had no power as the house minority leader. If boehner agreed to the bargain with Obama, he could have put the bill in the house. Then Reid would have had to put it in the senate.

Your premises are just not totally right.

On an aside, I will point out that the white house had no "power" to right a healthcare bill, but we call it derisively "obamacare" now.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Except, Obama, who is generally considered the leader of the said he would support cuts in entitlements.

What to show me the corresponding Republican?

Yes, he did say that but when asked to outline what the cuts would be and where they would come from, he never but that forward. It's easy to stand up and say anything but if you want to create an agreement between the two parties, you have to be willing to explain how your plan works.

That never happened with this President. It still hasn't.

[aREDSKIN]

A POV-

Since President Obama took office in January 2009, the United States has embarked on the most ambitious failed experiment in Washington meddling in US history. Huge increases in government spending, massive federal bailouts, growing regulations on businesses, thinly veiled protectionism, and the launch of a vastly expensive and deeply unpopular health care reform plan, have all combined to instill fear and uncertainty in the markets. Free enterprise has taken a backseat to continental European-style interventionism, as an intensely ideological left wing administration has sought to dramatically increase the role of the state in shaping the US economy. The end result has been a dramatic fall in economic freedom, sluggish growth, poor consumer confidence, high unemployment, a collapsing housing market, and an overall decline in US prosperity, with more than 45 million Americans now reliant on food stamps – that’s over one seventh of the entire country.

Continues.........http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100099762/america%E2%80%99s-debt-downgrade-is-a-damning-indictment-of-president-obama%E2%80%99s-big-government-disaster/

[mardi gras skin]

Pelosi had no power as the house minority leader.

again from the article posted above:

Members of her caucus won't vote for a grand bargain to raise the debt limit and reduce future deficits if the final deal includes cuts to Medicare and Social Security benefits -- and that means it probably won't pass.

She most certainly did have the power to take medicare cuts off the table. If a deal was going to get done, it was going to require support from more centrist republicans and democrats. The Tea Party Republicans were useless because they wouldn't accept tax hikes. The Pelosi Democrats were useless because they wouldn't allow Medicare cuts.

I understand you guys want to minimize her roll in this, but Pelosi crippled the President's ability to reach a big agreement as much as the Tea Partiers did.

[PeterMP]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/pelosi-medicare-and-social-security-cuts-will-compromise-vote-on-debt-limit-bill.php

Pelosi: Medicare, Social Security Benefit Cuts Are Line In The Sand On Debt Limit Bill

Peter, that isn't Good Cop, Bad Cop. That's Good Cop, Screw You Cop.

Obama couldn't push for it because his party wouldn't let him.

---------- Post added August-6th-2011 at 05:33 PM ----------

Obama did not have the power or the leadership to put Medicare on the table. His own party defied him and refused to allow it. It was never an option.

The fact of the matter is we'll never know because not a single Republican leader stepped up. We'll never know if Pelosi was acting in concert with Obama or not in trying to reach a good deal where the Republicans would actually compromise on things that were important to them.

The fact of the matter is one major player stepped up and said I'm willing to sacrafice my the major issues of my party to strike a long term debt ceiling deal, and it wasn't a Republican.

You can spin it anyway you want, but those are the facts.

We'll never know what would have happened if an important Republican would have done the same because it didn't happen.

**EDIT**

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/pelosi-medicare-is-on-the-table-in-debt-limit-talks/2011/05/16/AFIhQA5G_blog.html

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Monday that House Democrats are open to including reforms of entitlement programs such as Medicare in the ongoing talks on a deficit-reduction plan, although they remain opposed to the sweeping changes in House Republicans’ 2012 budget blueprint.

“When we’re talking about Medicare, we are open to many [changes],” Pelosi said in an interview with Bloomberg Television’s Peter Cook. “We are listening to every suggestion. But one suggestion we are not open to is the abolishment of Medicare. That is what the Republicans have put forth in their budget. We do not support that.”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/06/in-debt-ceiling-negotiations-democrats-insist-paul-ryans-medicare-reform-plan-to-be-off-the-table-.html

"In a letter to Vice President Biden today, five Democratic senators are calling for the Paul Ryan Medicare reform plan to “remain off the table,” as the budget and deficit negotiations over raising the debt ceiling go forward.

“We encourage you to remain unwavering in opposition to this scheme. For the good of the nation’s seniors, it must remain off the table,” the Democratic Senators write, “ we will never allow any effort to dismantle the program and force benefit cuts upon seniors under the guise of deficit reduction.”

The letter has been signed by Senators Bill Nelson (D-FL), Ben Cardin (D-MD), Sherrod Brown (D-OH), Claire McCaskill (D-MO) and Jon Tester (D-MT)."

Not no Medicare reform, just not the Ryan plan.

[Seabee1973]

Congrats Tea Party!

You got what you wanted.

Congrats democrats you finally destroyed America

See how easy laying blam,e is instead of looking at what the root cause of it is we have to much debt