NFLN: Chris Cooley Hoping the Player Vote is Delayed

[NewCliche21]

You don't need me to expand on this idea. You've been around along enough to see all the similar threads to this one to understand. Think about it.

Now I will say it yet again. If in fact Davis is as good as some here say,(and man I hope that is the case..he has shown some wonderful flashes of talent and ability at times),I'd be trading him instead of Cooley. Figure the Skins will get more value out of Fred that way and still keep a very good player.

I don't think that we have a large enough sample size of Davis's play in a starting role. We have a bit of a catch 22 here in that if we ran a two tight end set, then we could see what they could both do on the field for about the same number of plays. However, if we had a two tight end set, then we wouldn't be thinking about getting rid of either of them.

I'm not opposed to trading Davis; I literally just look at the DOB, what our realistic shot at a title is this year, and how we could take whatever we have here and turn it into something better for when our window is open.

[MattFancy]

You're hurting your argument with these kind of analogies.

I am a huge Cooley fan. Absolutely massive, and yes, since before his three-touchdown game against Dallas. I love his story about Bill Parcells saying that he would take him in the sixth if he were there but he'd never get beyond return teams. I pull for him hard and legitimately believe that he is one of the best Redskins in the past fifteen years on the field or off.

However, he's not Tom Brady. I mean, that's not even playing devil's advocate; that's the reverse equivalent of a Hitler comparison.

Ok maybe a little too far with the Brady analogy, let's try Antonio Gates. He's seen as a Top 2-3 TE in the league. When he went down last year, the Chargers offense was still potent. Does that mean Gates is replaceable? Randy McMichael put up ok numbers, but the offense was still #1 in the league without Gates. What about Jermichael Finley with the Packers? He goes down, but the Packers offense doesn't miss a beat and they win the Super Bowl. Does that mean he is now replaceable?

[NewCliche21]

I've read all your comments, I feel like its time to get rid of Cooley why he has some trade value and let Fred Davis shine. If Cooley was playing for Belichek (sp) he would get traded. Davis is more athletic and younger, he just needs to work on his blocking, now that I think about it Chris needs to work on his blocking as well....Fred Davis is the future, trade Cooley now.......

I don't think that it's that simple. I mean, honestly, a great solution would be to have both of them running routes at the same time. That by itself could get us one or two more wins if our line could deal with the rush. By the way, I think that Cooley is an underrated blocker. He's not the tight end equivalent of Clinton Portis, but he's up there.

[Santana_89]

I didn't say your name

I am the one who called Cooley average so let's not play that game okay.

[MattFancy]

I've read all your comments, I feel like its time to get rid of Cooley why he has some trade value and let Fred Davis shine. If Cooley was playing for Belichek (sp) he would get traded. Davis is more athletic and younger, he just needs to work on his blocking, now that I think about it Chris needs to work on his blocking as well....Fred Davis is the future, trade Cooley now.......

Why is it time to get rid of Cooley? Because he's a top TE and we have no idea what Davis can do? Do we know if the coaches even like him? And what exactly would we even get in return for a TE on the trade market anyway? I doubt we would get a 2nd rounder. A bunch of teams don't really utilize their TE in the pass game so I wouldn't expect a big market for him.

---------- Post added July-22nd-2011 at 12:07 PM ----------

I am the one who called Cooley average so let's not play that game okay.

And I said PROBABLY the same people. Probably doesn't mean ALL.

[NewCliche21]

Ok maybe a little too far with the Brady analogy, let's try Antonio Gates. He's seen as a Top 2-3 TE in the league. When he went down last year, the Chargers offense was still potent. Does that mean Gates is replaceable? Randy McMichael put up ok numbers, but the offense was still #1 in the league without Gates. What about Jermichael Finley with the Packers? He goes down, but the Packers offense doesn't miss a beat and they win the Super Bowl. Does that mean he is now replaceable?

Okay, I'll take those comparisons.

If you think about how important a tight end is to the team, and if they can show success without that tight end, then you trade whoever didn't help you get there as long as you're not anticipating a lot of departures on offense.

Yes, I would trade Gates and Finley if my team has shown that they can do it without them. Same reason that I was disappointed, but not at all surprised or in disagreement with the decision, when our second-best rusher of all-time was let go. If you can do it without him and you have someone else to play the position, then he's replaceable.

[MattFancy]

Okay, I'll take those comparisons.

If you think about how important a tight end is to the team, and if they can show success without that tight end, then you trade whoever didn't help you get there as long as you're not anticipating a lot of departures on offense.

Yes, I would trade Gates and Finley if my team has shown that they can do it without them. Same reason that I was disappointed, but not at all surprised or in disagreement with the decision, when our second-best rusher of all-time was let go. If you can do it without him and you have someone else to play the position, then he's replaceable.

But as much as I loved Clinton Portis, he was getting hurt and wasn't as productive as he had been in the past. Cooley hasn't missed a game besides breaking his ankle in 2009 and he's still very productive. And like I said before, we don't know what kind of trade value there would be for a TE. So who knows what we would get if we even traded Cooley. I doubt it would be a 2nd rounder. I would guess a 3rd or 4th at most.

[PCS]

I don't think that we have a large enough sample size of Davis's play in a starting role. We have a bit of a catch 22 here in that if we ran a two tight end set, then we could see what they could both do on the field for about the same number of plays. However, if we had a two tight end set, then we wouldn't be thinking about getting rid of either of them.

I'm not opposed to trading Davis; I literally just look at the DOB, what our realistic shot at a title is this year, and how we could take whatever we have here and turn it into something better for when our window is open.

That sample size is the main reason why I believe he's been overrated by some fans. We just don't "know" and it's just that simple. I will say that if Fred makes a push,(and as I stated,the young man has shown some wonderful flashes of what he could do),Chris's age could start working against him down the road. Especially if he gets hurt again. (duh). I'm with others. I'd like to keep them both around for awhile.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

wait what:????!!!

Cooley 2010 Ranked 3nd in Yards

Davis 2010 ranked 36th

Yards a game Cooley Ranked 6th

Davis ranked 37th

Game logs show Cooley is there every play.

Without Davis getting the exact same playtime its hard to tell, but with our record we should not be discarding ANYONE in the top 15 of the league

I'm talking about 2009 when Cooley was hurt and Davis replaced him as the #1 TE. He put up comparable numbers. Obviously a #2 TE isn't going to put up better numbers to the #1 TE when they are both playing all season,

---------- Post added July-22nd-2011 at 12:46 PM ----------

So to play devil's advocate, you're saying the Patriots should've traded Brady the year he went down and Cassel came in? Because they're numbers were similar, they still won 11 games, and Cassel is younger.

No. Not unless you're saying that Cooley is a top TE of all time and TE is the most important position on the field.

---------- Post added July-22nd-2011 at 12:49 PM ----------

Ok maybe a little too far with the Brady analogy, let's try Antonio Gates. He's seen as a Top 2-3 TE in the league. When he went down last year, the Chargers offense was still potent. Does that mean Gates is replaceable? Randy McMichael put up ok numbers, but the offense was still #1 in the league without Gates. What about Jermichael Finley with the Packers? He goes down, but the Packers offense doesn't miss a beat and they win the Super Bowl. Does that mean he is now replaceable?

I would have to know how their replacements fared. I'm not basing my opinion on how the team performed in Cooley's absence. I'm basing it on how Cooley's replacement performed. In my mind, if you can get the same production from a younger/cheaper player, then someone is replaceable. However, keep in mind, I didn't make the argument that they should trade him (though I have in the past). I made the argument that I'd stop short of calling a player "great" when his backup can come in and put up the same numbers.

---------- Post added July-22nd-2011 at 12:54 PM ----------

Basically, trading Cooley (though I wouldn't be upset if we didn't) would show me that we're willing to do what the better teams in the league do...get value for someone a year or two BEFORE they start to decline. The Pats do it all the time. The Eagles do it all the time. We, on the other hand, have traditionally kept guys until they have little or no value remaining. But, the trade debate isn't really one I'm looking to spark today. I'm simply saying that Cooley is a good TE, nothing more and nothing less. I believe his numbers have benefitted from the fact that our TE has had to serve as our #2 WR for almost his entire career here.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

It's an opinion by some fans, no need to get all broken down about it and calling people stupid. This is your opinion, obviously you drink Cooleyaid on the regular and it's ok to do so. Some of us also think Cooley is a fantastic player and has been for years. However, some of us also want to see the team get younger in all areas and potentially better. As stated, my reasoning is Fred Davis has the potential/ability/skillsets to be a much better TE than Chris Cooley. This has nothing to do with him hoping the player vote gets delayed. This is no longer about who the fans favorite player is. This is about getting the team better and stable that we are in contention for years. Fred Davis brings this to the table.

It's not Cooleyaid...it's a matter of watching the games. Last season he seemed to not even be targeted until the second half of the game, and he put up those numbers? That's after the "decline" (as someone stated) after his injury? I can understand someone wanting to get younger and moving guys when they have value, but calling Cooley "average" is stupid - and I mean the idea of it, not the person. I don't know most of you guys well enough to come to a conclusion on that

Wow ! So let me get this straight just because I BELIEVE Cooley is NOT the greatest thing since sliced bread I'm crazy,stupid and a whole bunch of other juvenile grade school names..some of you really need to GET A LIFE. Apparently some of you aren't mature enough to disagree with other people's opinion without being childish and mean spirited about it. Guess what I could give a rat's hairy ass this is how I FEEL about Cooley. NO PLAYER is above being jettisoned it happened to Art Monk,Gary Clark hell even Brian Mitchell ,so Cooley who has zero rings can be tradeded as well. Clinton Portis is one of my favorite players even though I was saddend to see him let go it's a business I AM a Washington Redskins fan not a Washington Cooley fan so long after #47 is gone I'll still be cheering for my Skins.

What on earth are you getting so offended at? The idea that Cooley is simply "average" is a stupid idea. If that's your stupid idea, well...we all have stupid ideas.

I didn't see anyone go into all of this immature name calling that's gotten you so upset :whoknows:

[MattFancy]

But Davis put up comparable numbers in a small window. Granted he hasn't really gotten a chance to duplicate those numbers, but Cooley hasn't given the coaches a reason to not play him. We all know what Cooley can do and he does it very well. So why trade him for an unknown? David has potential, but that doesn't mean he'll reach it. I'd take the sure thing now rather than taking a risk with the unknown.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

But Davis put up comparable numbers in a small window. Granted he hasn't really gotten a chance to duplicate those numbers, but Cooley hasn't given the coaches a reason to not play him. We all know what Cooley can do and he does it very well. So why trade him for an unknown? David has potential, but that doesn't mean he'll reach it. I'd take the sure thing now rather than taking a risk with the unknown.

If that was directed at me, I'm fine with not trading Cooley. I'm just not someone who would lose it if we did and got good value for him. Even though Davis put up those numbers in a small sample size, it wasn't just a game or two. He had 48 receptions for 509 yards and 6 TDs. That same year (and I honestly don't remember when Cooley got injured), Cooley had 29 receptions for 332 yards and 2 TDs. So, you could make the argument that Davis outplayed Cooley when he was the full-time starter.

My point all along with trading Cooley has been this...

If Davis can provide comparable output, I'd rather have Davis + trade return over just Cooley. That's of course assuming we get good value for Cooley. If we wouldn't, then I'd love to keep him here.

[pjfootballer]

I'm not sure we can accurately predict how Davis will reach his potential based on a small sample in one season. If Davis was so damn good, he would have wrestled the job away from Cooley by now. Davis did this in a Jim Zorn offense with Captain Checkdown Campbell at the helm. And you have to remember that Davis was picked in the 2nd round by Vinny, who sandwiched 2 WRs between the Davis pick that haven't been squat. I have no proof of this, but I thought I remember during the draft that most experts said Davis could have been picked up in the 3rd round. I haven't seen a whole lot statistics wise from his days at USC that would preclude him being a great TE. And USC was a pass first offense at the time he played there.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'm not sure we can accurately predict how Davis will reach his potential based on a small sample in one season. If Davis was so damn good, he would have wrestled the job away from Cooley by now. Davis did this in a Jim Zorn offense with Captain Checkdown Campbell at the helm. And you have to remember that Davis was picked in the 2nd round by Vinny, who sandwiched 2 WRs between the Davis pick that haven't been squat. I have no proof of this, but I thought I remember during the draft that most experts said Davis could have been picked up in the 3rd round. I haven't seen a whole lot statistics wise from his days at USC that would preclude him being a great TE. And USC was a pass first offense at the time he played there.

I don't really see how any of this is relevant. Playing within the same offense as Cooley was that year (2009), Davis put up comparable, if not better, statistics. If Campbell was checking down with Davis in there, I'm sure he was checking down with Cooley in there too. Also, once he's on the roster, who cares where he was drafted. I'm not basing my opinion on where he was selected, but what he did on the field the only time he was the #1 TE.

[RabidFan]

Dude, its 100+ degrees in VA...hell they postponed the Bull Run reenactment until 6pm. No smart person would want camp to start this weekend.

[elkabong82]

Why does it seem that some fans lately, in order to cope with boredom of the lockout, are looking for any little thing on any player just so they can complain about them? Cooley's sarcastic comment is taken seriously, Moss, who hasn't had a run-in with the law at least as a Redskin, is demonized like he's the next Pac-man for having his birthday party at a strip club, and because Trent Williams bought an ugly chain it now means he has no work ethic. It seems some of you all enjoy football not for the game, but for the chance to complain. IMO.

[jivelikenice]

Chris Cooley was on NFLN earlier via telephone, and he was hoping the vote was delayed because he was "one of the guys who hoped to miss the first few days of training camp."

classy :cool:

For all the guys on this board & area who love the guy, maybe he's been a big part of why this team hasn't been able to be a consistent winner and has the reputation they do around the league.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Again, I'm not taking these comments too seriously, but I do think far too many fans overrate our more outgoing players. To me, I don't care how cool any of them might be on a personal level, I'm not friends with these guys. It would probably be great to have someone like Cooley as a friend...in fact, most of us probably have a friend who has a similar personality. But, when it comes to the players on my favorite team, I'd much rather have a bunch of gym rat dorks who take football far too seriously. I concede that some players can be both (quirky and serious about the game), but overall I'd take the guy like Manning who lives and breathes football over someone who is seemingly cool and fun to hang out with.

[DM72]

For all the guys on this board & area who love the guy, maybe he's been a big part of why this team hasn't been able to be a consistent winner and has the reputation they do around the league.

Amen. I bet you guys on the Packers, Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Colts, Eagles and the Giants would say something like that. He might have been joking, but it just sounds as if he's not serious about winning.

[CRobi21]

:doh:

[MattFancy]

For all the guys on this board & area who love the guy, maybe he's been a big part of why this team hasn't been able to be a consistent winner and has the reputation they do around the league.

Yeah having a guy that has been a Pro Bowler and is top 10 at his position has got to be the reason this team hasn't won anything the last 20 years.

[DM72]

Yeah having a guy that has been a Pro Bowler and is top 10 at his position has got to be the reason this team hasn't won anything the last 20 years.

He's a good TE. No one's really debating that. But I do question his desire to help this team to be the best. If he's true team leader, you can't say that he hope the player vote is delayed so you can have a few extra days off.

[MattFancy]

He's a good TE. No one's really debating that. But I do question his desire to help this team to be the best. If he's true team leader, you can't say that he hope the player vote is delayed so you can have a few extra days off.

He was joking. He was laughing as he said that. Have you ever said you don't feel like going to work today?

[NewCliche21]

But as much as I loved Clinton Portis, he was getting hurt and wasn't as productive as he had been in the past. Cooley hasn't missed a game besides breaking his ankle in 2009 and he's still very productive. And like I said before, we don't know what kind of trade value there would be for a TE. So who knows what we would get if we even traded Cooley. I doubt it would be a 2nd rounder. I would guess a 3rd or 4th at most.

Ah, I see what you're saying about Portis. Good point.

Here's the conundrum: If Cooley weren't worth a second, then we don't trade him. That, however, indicates that he's not that integral to a team's success, and that kind of furthers the point of trading him since his value is that low. I do think that he would get a second or a third and fifth.

That sample size is the main reason why I believe he's been overrated by some fans. We just don't "know" and it's just that simple. I will say that if Fred makes a push,(and as I stated,the young man has shown some wonderful flashes of what he could do),Chris's age could start working against him down the road. Especially if he gets hurt again. (duh). I'm with others. I'd like to keep them both around for awhile.

To be fair, if that sample size is too small, then he's not just overrated, he's misrated (not a word, I know) in that he shouldn't be rated at all. There wouldn't be enough data to argue either way.

If we were on the cusp, then I wouldn't be having this discussion as you stick with what's working and Cooley could contribute during his prime. However, I feel that not playing a player inhibits how high of a level at which he will play. This is the same logic I use for keeping only Moss as a "veteran" receiver and then giving everyone else an equal shot. It's why I like our running back situation. It's why, along with every down that he's ever played ever of all time ever, that Rabach needs to go.

Overall, I'd love to keep Cooley. He's one of the few bright spots in a twenty-year night, but I don't want to keep him at the expense of Davis's experience.

If that was directed at me, I'm fine with not trading Cooley. I'm just not someone who would lose it if we did and got good value for him. Even though Davis put up those numbers in a small sample size, it wasn't just a game or two. He had 48 receptions for 509 yards and 6 TDs. That same year (and I honestly don't remember when Cooley got injured), Cooley had 29 receptions for 332 yards and 2 TDs. So, you could make the argument that Davis outplayed Cooley when he was the full-time starter.

My point all along with trading Cooley has been this...

If Davis can provide comparable output, I'd rather have Davis + trade return over just Cooley. That's of course assuming we get good value for Cooley. If we wouldn't, then I'd love to keep him here.

This puts my perspective in a more articulate manner, so +1.

[Truant]

:doh:

You crushed it. Right on-point.