TSN: Major league baseball discussing division-less realignment option

[TheDoyler23]

There are more and more pitchers that can hit in the NL these days. But that's not even the point. Like someone earlier said, the NL is just a "purer" version of the game. And baseball isn't just about the 3-run HR. Stealing bases, hit and run, moving runners up, are also appreciated aspects of the game. Who wants to see some guy that can ONLY hit, and can't play defense?

And its funny you think its sissy for the pitchers that sometimes wear the jacket on the bases, yet you don't think its sissy for a guy to ONLY hit. C'mon. The NL is the better brand of baseball, hands down.

The NL contending to be "more pure" is like one whore calling out another whore for being more whoreish! If the NL wants to claim this holier than thou attitude, then start only scheduling day games, deaden the ball, ban pitchers who have had ligament replacement surgery and the maple bat.. I could go on.

Modern baseball is a game of specialization. Pitchers are there to pitch, not hit. I'd rather see a geriatric Ortiz or Guerrero rake than a pitcher bunt (which is bad strategy most times anyway, unless it's a pitcher hitting!")

And throwing at a pitcher is low rent anyway. Why hit a guy who can't hit? Doing that guy a favor. Go after their slugger to settle the score.

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^^ Doyler, You're missing the point. I'm saying a pitcher in the NL will think twice before throwing at a guy. Yeah, he can't hit. But that's not the point. The point is, don't throw at anyone if you aren't willing to stand in the box and take one under the chin, or in the back, etc. That's one of the reasons I don't like the AL. All these senseless beanings, because some ***** pitcher knows he doesn't have to face the music.

And Ortiz is a perfect example of the DH being stupid. Yeah, it works during the year. But in the NL ballparks, in the playoffs (or interleague), a guy like that is pretty much useless. Stupid, right?

[Warhead36]

Either way, both leagues should have the same set of rules. It's silly that half the teams in a sport play with a different set of rules. It'd be like if in football the NFC got to play with 5 downs or if in the NBA Western teams had no 3 point line. Either allow a DH in both leagues or no DH in either.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

It's "strategy" because the pitcher by and large can't hit. The NL has 7.5 man lineups while the AL can mash 1-9. MANY people prefer the latter of the two.

I wouldn't miss the DH all that much, but it remains in the AL as an improvement in entertainment value to the league. AL fans don't want to see pitchers bunt and wear that sissy little jacket on the bases when the D gets the lead runner at second!

This.

[TheDoyler23]

^^ Doyler, You're missing the point. I'm saying a pitcher in the NL will think twice before throwing at a guy. Yeah, he can't hit. But that's not the point. The point is, don't throw at anyone if you aren't willing to stand in the box and take one under the chin, or in the back, etc. That's one of the reasons I don't like the AL. All these senseless beanings, because some ***** pitcher knows he doesn't have to face the music.

And Ortiz is a perfect example of the DH being stupid. Yeah, it works during the year. But in the NL ballparks, in the playoffs (or interleague), a guy like that is pretty much useless. Stupid, right?

And that "Pitchers need to dig in too" stuff is just chest beating while starters in both leagues hit guys all the time. Little to no impact.

Ortiz can still get an AB in an inter-league game. Most NL teams have a credible bat on their bench that can DH in inter-league anyway. MLB should use the DH in both leagues for those games.

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And that "Pitchers need to dig in too" stuff is just chest beating while starters in both leagues hit guys all the time. Little to no impact.

Ortiz can still get an AB in an inter-league game. Most NL teams have a credible bat on their bench that can DH in inter-league anyway. MLB should use the DH in both leagues for those games.

There aren't nearly as many incidents in the NL as there are in the AL. Hell, the Yankees got hit probably 10 times last week, alone. That stuff doesn't happen in the NL, bro. Like I said, the pitchers in the NL know they have to stand in there, too. It cuts down on all those senseless beanings. Hell, Teixiera got beaned because he was on a "hot" streak. Seriously, how stupid is that?

And you had no good response for the Ortiz thing. Quite frankly, because there isn't one. The DH is just stupid. Admit it.

[Metalhead]

Couldn't they just as easily move the Astros to the AL West?

I suppose they could. I was thinking along the lines of keeping multiple teams in a single state as separate as possible, league-wise.

[TheDoyler23]

There aren't nearly as many incidents in the NL as there are in the AL. Hell, the Yankees got hit probably 10 times last week, alone. That stuff doesn't happen in the NL, bro. Like I said, the pitchers in the NL know they have to stand in there, too. It cuts down on all those senseless beanings. Hell, Teixiera got beaned because he was on a "hot" streak. Seriously, how stupid is that?

Then why were there more hit batters in the NL in 2010, and 2009, and 2008, and 2007, and 2006, and 2005, and 2004..?.

You have to go back to 1993 to see more hit batters in a season for the AL.

So the pitchers who know they have to dig in argument is just bunk.

My response to the Ortiz thing is that the AL teams have a disadvantage in interleague play. A DH is frequently in the heart of the order because he can demonstrate a valuable skill in a sport that is becoming more specialized by the day. Just because it's somewhat of a waste in the older model of baseball doesn't prove your point. You saying that the DH is "stupid" isn't really a cogent argument.

[ixcuincle]

There are more and more pitchers that can hit in the NL these days. But that's not even the point. Like someone earlier said, the NL is just a "purer" version of the game. And baseball isn't just about the 3-run HR. Stealing bases, hit and run, moving runners up, are also appreciated aspects of the game. Who wants to see some guy that can ONLY hit, and can't play defense?

And its funny you think its sissy for the pitchers that sometimes wear the jacket on the bases, yet you don't think its sissy for a guy to ONLY hit. C'mon. The NL is the better brand of baseball, hands down.

---------- Post added June-13th-2011 at 06:20 PM ----------

There are a myriad of reasons why pitchers don't hit very well in baseball. But I'm not about to list them all. And hitting .200 for a pitcher actually isn't bad. Hell, look at Dan Uggla. Here's a former all star, a guy that has hit 30 HR in each of his full seasons in the majors, yet he's only hitting about .183. Hitting a baseball is the single hardest thing to do in sports.

Halladay hit under .200 last year. In fact, Ubaldo during his pitching prowess last year hit for .087 or something like that. Real feared hitters at the plate lol

UH OH

IT'S HOME RUN THREAT UBALDO JIMINEZ

WALK HIM

[Bubble Screen]

Then why were there more hit batters in the NL in 2010, and 2009, and 2008, and 2007, and 2006, and 2005, and 2004..?.

You have to go back to 1993 to see more hit batters in a season for the AL.

So the pitchers who know they have to dig in argument is just bunk.

My response to the Ortiz thing is that the AL teams have a disadvantage in interleague play. A DH is frequently in the heart of the order because he can demonstrate a valuable skill in a sport that is becoming more specialized by the day. Just because it's somewhat of a waste in the older model of baseball doesn't prove your point. You saying that the DH is "stupid" isn't really a cogent argument.

I wasn't talking about which league had more hit batsmen. That's irrelevant. I'm talking about the stupid incidents like the ones with the Yankees/Red Sox and Yankees/Indians this past week. I'm speaking of batters that are "intentionally" hit. Granted, Ortiz should have been plunked for what he did. But Teixeira getting hit for the simple fact that he's been hot is STUPID. And those kinds of things don't often occur in the NL. If you think those type of things happen anywhere close to what they do in the AL, then you just aren't paying attention.

And your Ortiz argument is weak. There's no disadvantage in interleague play with the AL. If there were, then the AL wouldn't have the overall record in interleague play over the NL that they do.

As for my argument against the DH; I've already stated my thoughts on it. And I clearly gave reasons why. Not sure how you missed that.

[skinfan2k]

then why do AL teams need managers? it is pretty pointless. their job is only to handle the pen and they still get confused on how to

[Titaw]

Pitcher can't hit because they don't spend the time in the cage. It is more beneficial for the team if their pitchers are in the bullpen than trying to find their swing.

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Pitcher can't hit because they don't spend the time in the cage. It is more beneficial for the team if their pitchers are in the bullpen than trying to find their swing.

Yup. Plus the more they are practicing hitting, the better the chance of them getting injured. Its not worth the risk. And really, the only pitchers that need to work on hitting/bunting (sacrificing) are the starting pitchers on a team. Generally, relievers don't get to hit too often.

[TheDoyler23]

I wasn't talking about which league had more hit batsmen. That's irrelevant. I'm talking about the stupid incidents like the ones with the Yankees/Red Sox and Yankees/Indians this past week. I'm speaking of batters that are "intentionally" hit. Granted, Ortiz should have been plunked for what he did. But Teixeira getting hit for the simple fact that he's been hot is STUPID. And those kinds of things don't often occur in the NL. If you think those type of things happen anywhere close to what they do in the AL, then you just aren't paying attention.

So I presented facts, and you came up with a couple minor squabbles. Weren't both brawls in baseball between NL teams last year? I can list small sample size anecdotal stuff too.

And your Ortiz argument is weak. There's no disadvantage in interleague play with the AL. If there were, then the AL wouldn't have the overall record in interleague play over the NL that they do.

You just refuted what I said without actually making a valid point. The AL has a better record in interleague in spite of the disadvantage.

As for my argument against the DH; I've already stated my thoughts on it. And I clearly gave reasons why. Not sure how you missed that.

I'm not saying you're wrong or one league is superior. I was just poking holes in the NL proponents crowing the superiority of the "strategy" and "purity." I didn't miss anything, but you really like to deflect valid points and make snippy little slights.

I won't change your argument and certainly not you the same. Oh, and here's a little more info. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2467/what-is-the-designated-hitter-rule-in-baseball

George Will describes the DH as evolving into real conservative values as 'only serious batters shall bat.'

Or Bill James concluding that the DH increases strategy in the game.

But what do they know?

[Bubble Screen]

It doesn't increase strategy to the point there is more strategy than what is involved in the NL. Not possible.

[TheDoyler23]

It doesn't increase strategy to the point there is more strategy than what is involved in the NL. Not possible.

Go call Bill James and give him the news. He's a Sawx fan, though. So maybe he's biased.

[Bubble Screen]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I think you're an O's fan, right? AL and NL fans are never gonna agree on this topic. But ya know what, the guy earlier has a good point: As much as I despise the DH, I think I would be ok if they went all DH, instead of this DH in one league, pitcher hitting in the other. Of course I'd still prefer that pitchers hit in both leagues, if I had a choice.

[TheDoyler23]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I think you're an O's fan, right? AL and NL fans are never gonna agree on this topic. But ya know what, the guy earlier has a good point: As much as I despise the DH, I think I would be ok if they went all DH, instead of this DH in one league, pitcher hitting in the other. Of course I'd still prefer that pitchers hit in both leagues, if I had a choice.

I can live with it either way, but it would make sense to unify things (and by that I mean the NL adopt ). It's like the NBA Eastern conference not having the 3 point line.

[HEavyJumbo85]

There are good and bad, but, while I would miss some of the in game "strategy", I wouldn't miss the automatic out or the perpetual overmanaging. Pitchers just don't get enough reps to be able to hit capably (Zambrano, Gallardo, and Josh Johnson notwithstanding), especially in the minor leagues. Pretty much every league has a DH now, National league farm team or not.

Do people really enjoy watching the pitcher come up with runners in scoring position, knowing that the rally is about to end? Especially if it's late in a close game and the pitcher is going great? I think that's what some people consider "strategy" and it's really just bull****. If you pinch hit, you're overmanaging and misusing your arms, regardless of the outcome. If you leave the pitcher in, and he makes an out, which he likely will, you're losing that opportunity.

The manager shouldn't have to decide there because pitching and hitting should be independent of each other. It's a low percentage play to let the pitcher hit, so leaving him in would be the wrong move, but it's a bad baseball decision to burn an arm before you have to, all in the name of taking a risk that, at best and in the most optimistic cases, has a 30% chance of paying off. Both moves are wrong, baseball wise. Whether or not your low percentage move comes to fruition shouldn't really be defined as "strategy." Let the hitters hit and have it not affect your bullpen.

[TimmySmith]

I like the leagues being different. They are different entities, not to be confused with conferences. Why should they emulate each other?

The DH has a bit to do with hitting, sure. But the strategies employed by the National League is far more compelling than the brain dead AL. The DH has as much to do with the success (domination) of the Yankees and Red Sox as anything. Take away the DH and nobody cares about the salary cap.

[MattFancy]

Couldn't they just as easily move the Astros to the AL West?

I always thought that too, but then you have to have an interleague series every day

[HEavyJumbo85]

I like the leagues being different. They are different entities, not to be confused with conferences. Why should they emulate each other?

I'd be fine with this if they stopped playing each other in the regular season...interleague play is just awful.

[MattFancy]

I'd be fine with this if they stopped playing each other in the regular season...interleague play is just awful.

I loved interleague at first because you could see teams that you normally didn't get a chance to see play. But now that the Nats are in the area, if I want to see a NL team play, I can go to a Nats game.

[HEavyJumbo85]

I loved interleague at first because you could see teams that you normally didn't get a chance to see play. But now that the Nats are in the area, if I want to see a NL team play, I can go to a Nats game.

Even if you weren't close, it would still suck. Oh great, I get to see the Red Sox come to town, oh, right David Ortiz won't be playing because his position doesn't exist here. Oh great, I get to see the Phillies come to town, oh, right I have to watch a utility infielder or a 4th outfielder try to DH because they have to add that position here. They play different games, the roster composition is different. It's stupid and it's always been stupid.

[AsburySkinsFan]

That woud give teams like NY Yankees and Boston a playoff spot just about every year if they went to this format. It sure as hell will make it even tougher for small market teams to make it to the playoffs.

This is my thinking too, I'm glad they aren't doing this for football....oh wait there isn't any football this year....:doh:

I don't like the idea of 15 per league, instead I'm for expansion by two teams. Bring a major league team to Louisville and another somewhere in the West problem solved there.