Name All Qb's Who Have Been in the Same System 3+ Years....

[Chiefinonhaze]

That have started an NFL game, and are still active

This is the situation Rex Grossman is in. He has been to a superbowl, and is entering his 3rd year in the same system.

I don't want this to be a thread bashing Grossman.

I want this thread to examine the success every active QB has had after studying a system for 3 years. Obviously Todd Collins is my inspiration for starting this thread. He is a below-average talent, who studied Al Saunders system for many years. When Collins finally got a chance, his mastery of the offense took us to the playoffs.

My main point is, having an average QB who has mastery of your system, is better than having a very talented QB in his first year in a system.

[Conn]

The upside is that Collins was very, very physically limited. If Grossman can get his "**** it, I'm trusting my arm and/or going deep" attitude under control, he could really do some things here. Because he's got the arm for it. He is capable of throwing 3 TD games consistently. And he's proven he's very capable in the small space of the red zone, something we haven't had in a QB in quite some time. He just has to get his mind-set and reads under control, so that he doesn't also have 3 INT games.

[Chiefinonhaze]

His turnover problems will diminish once he gains mastery of an NFL system. It's rare in this age of the NFL that a QB gets the chance to play in the same system 3+ years. Grossman has this chance.

[GaryGreenMonk]

I get your point, but i'll be devils advocate and post QB's that debunk your theory;

Carson Palmer

Jason Campbell (with us)

David Garrard

Alex Smith

[Chiefinonhaze]

I get your point, but i'll be devils advocate and post QB's that debunk your theory;

Carson Palmer

Jason Campbell (with us)

David Garrard

Alex Smith

Campbell??? Nope. Garrard is a good QB. Palmer used to be an ELITE QB. And Alex Smith? Which OC was Alex Smith under for 3 years?

[TheRookie]

Alex Smith = I believe 6 coordinators

[Mahons21]

I get your point, but i'll be devils advocate and post QB's that debunk your theory;

Carson Palmer

Jason Campbell (with us)

David Garrard

Alex Smith

Palmer, and Garrard are the only two. Palmer had injuries and he's also part of a wreck of an organization, Garrard is descent, he's not a bad QB at least.

Additional people I think might qualify;

Henne

Tavaris Jackson

Kerry Collins

Jake Delhomme 2008/2009

[Annonymous Source]

Tavaris Jackson is the only current example that I can think of in a negative light.

There are many examples of this type of QB looking back, such as David Carr

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Let's look at this with Grossman himself.

2005 through 2008 was a period he spent 4 straight years in Ron Turner's system. Turner who takes a lot from the pass first Air Coryell system. A very QB friendly one.

During that time, Rex played in 30 regular season games for the Bears (25 starts), and led them to a 19-11 record. His personal passing numbers were as follows:

806 Attempts/436 Completions- 54.09 Completion %.

5,120 Yards- 6.3 Yards per attempt.

30 TD's.

31 INT'S.

14 Fumbles/ 8 Lost.

But he lead them to the SB in '06 I hear you cry. Well let's look at that. Aside from Thomas Jones and Cedric Benson racking up over 1800 plus yards between them, and some rookie named Hester tearing it up in the return game with 5 kick return TD's, along with flipping the field virtually every time he touched the ball; Grossman's own numbers were hardly stellar:

16 Games/16 Starts

480 Attempts/ 262 Completions- 54.6 Completion %.

3,193 Yards- 6.7 Yards per atempt.

23 TD's.

20 INT's.

8 Fumbles/ 5 Lost.

He had 7 games with a passer rating over 100, and 5 more with one under 50, including a 0 passer rating against the Packers. His play was so average, that the Bears fans and Chicago media alike were screaming for Brian fricking Griese to come in. In that SB loss to the Colts, Rex was Rex, throwing 1 TD, 2 INT's (1 of which was returned for a TD), and fumbling the ball away twice.

And for a man that's alleged to be so proficient in Kyle Shanahan's system, his record of 1 win and 4 loses, with 7 TD's, 5 INT's, and 5 fumbles with 4 lost, would suggest otherwise and more of the same. If he has the system SO well down after 2 years surely he'd have better ball placement and protection than that?

Dude is who he is. A VERY average pro QB that's been a turnover machine through his career. NO amount of time in any one system is going to make much difference when he's so flawed to start with.

Hail.

[jflow78]

I was impressed with Rex last season. I'd be completely fine with him starting. The only negatives I've heard from people have nothing to do with his play last season, but his play in Chicago, 2 or 3 seasons ago.

[MumboSauce]

Dude is who he is. A VERY average pro QB that's been a turnover machine through his career. NO amount of time in any one system is going to make much difference when he's so flawed to start with.

Hail.

^^^^ I feel the same way. Rex is not the answer, sorry...I'd almost rather see what we have in Beck and he's a pretty unknown. I think we need to bring in a FA. Rex is back up imo he knows the offense, can tutor a younger player...but not a starter imo.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Rex is not the answer, sorry...I'd almost rather see what we have in Beck and he's a pretty unknown. I think we need to bring in a FA.

God willing today's ruling goes in our favor and we can get said FA QB in Friday or Monday, or as soon as FA starts.

Hail.

[tshile]

your premise isn't as enlightening as you may think it is...

yes, if a coach is in control for 3 years and runs a system for 3 years, and the qb is above mediocre, then he's going to keep that qb until a better one comes along.

in those situations the qb earns his stay, as much as learning the system allows him to grow into a better player. bad qb's tend to bounce around from team to team, system to system. bad o coordinators tend to bounce around as well (allthough, they get run out of the league quicker than qb's on average)

that being said, if your point is that the focus should be on growing the talent you have while providing consistency, then i 100% agree with you. it's an approach this team has yet to take since snyder took over, and hopefully this is the 2nd year in many to come with the same O and D coordinator, head coach, system, and player aquisition schemes.

[Going Commando]

So are we talking ourselves into Rex Grossman or not? Talking ourselves into Beck seems a bit easier doesn't it?

[think.rational]

I was impressed with Rex last season. I'd be completely fine with him starting. The only negatives I've heard from people have nothing to do with his play last season, but his play in Chicago, 2 or 3 seasons ago.

And for a man that's alleged to be so proficient in Kyle Shanahan's system, his record of 1 win and 4 loses, with 7 TD's, 5 INT's, and 5 fumbles with 4 lost, would suggest otherwise and more of the same. If he has the system SO well down after 2 years surely he'd have better ball placement and protection than that?

I'm for bringing Todd Collins back more than Rex. And yes, I know how bad that is. People are hanging there hat on the Dallas game where he put up some points and yards. He also had what, 3 turnovers? Including one where he was throwing it away.

Everytime I think of Rex I think of the "F.. it, I'm going deep" fan club.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

. People are hanging there hat on the Dallas game where he put up some points and yards. He also had what, 3 turnovers? Including one where he was throwing it away.

His performance against Dallas got blown out of all proportion on these boards. Understandable in a way because it was the first time in a good few games we actually saw red zone productivity. And he very nearly pulled off a thrilling comeback. But we wouldn't of had to of comeback if he hadn't of handed Dallas points to start with, with his turnovers. He had a very mixed day that first start. Some very good, some very bad. A typical Rex day. And in the main it dropped off from there the next 3 games.

Hail.

[Zhouse]

And for a man that's alleged to be so proficient in Kyle Shanahan's system, his record of 1 win and 4 loses, with 7 TD's, 5 INT's, and 5 fumbles with 4 lost, would suggest otherwise and more of the same. If he has the system SO well down after 2 years surely he'd have better ball placement and protection than that?

Dude is who he is. A VERY average pro QB that's been a turnover machine through his career. NO amount of time in any one system is going to make much difference when he's so flawed to start with.

Hail.

Wow. I didn't realize his numbers looked that bad under Kyle. This must be some type of an optical illusion because the offense looked more fluid later in the year.

McNabb 's 2010 Numbers: 5 Wins, 8 Loses, 14 TD, 15 Ints, 10 fumbles with 1 lost.

At this point I support plan C; Beck or a FA

[Annonymous Source]

Wow. I didn't realize his numbers looked that bad under Kyle. This must be some type of an optical illusion because the offense looked more fluid later in the year.

McNabb 's 2010 Numbers: 5 Wins, 8 Loses, 14 TD, 15 Ints, 10 fumbles with 1 lost.

At this point I support plan C; Beck or a FA

The offense looked a lot better in the last few games because Torain absolutely lit it up to end the season.

[Rocky21]

This is the situation Rex Grossman is in. He has been to a superbowl, and is entering his 3rd year in the same system.

You do realize that Rex Grossman is not a member of the Redskins, right?

[Bang]

Tavaris Jackson is the only current example that I can think of in a negative light.

There are many examples of this type of QB looking back, such as David Carr

Last time T-Jack was the Vikes starter, they went 10-6.

He's not all that terrible.

~Bang

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So are we talking ourselves into Rex Grossman or not? Talking ourselves into Beck seems a bit easier doesn't it?

I could talk myself into syphillis if you put enough drinks in me.

[Bootleg]

Didn't Rex Grossman have the same system for at least 3 years with Ron Turner with the Bears?

I know it's Ron Turner but still...

[ouvan59]

His performance against Dallas got blown out of all proportion on these boards. Understandable in a way because it was the first time in a good few games we actually saw red zone productivity. And he very nearly pulled off a thrilling comeback. But we wouldn't of had to of comeback if he hadn't of handed Dallas points to start with, with his turnovers. He had a very mixed day that first start. Some very good, some very bad. A typical Rex day. And in the main it dropped off from there the next 3 games.

Hail.

Agreed. What that day told me though was that our offensive system could work. I think Grossman can be effective but I doubt he'll ever really be great. But once Rex got in there all of a sudden the line got better, the running game looked better and the flow of the offense looked better. It really underscored how terrible McNabb had been. Rex still is prone to mistakes but he brought the intermediate passing game into the equation..

[Conn]

You do realize that Rex Grossman is not a member of the Redskins, right?

The assumption is that he'll be re-signed, and that it'll be cheap and easy, because he's really got nowhere else to go. Even if he ends up being the backup.

---------- Post added May-5th-2011 at 04:12 PM ----------

Agreed. What that day told me though was that our offensive system could work. I think Grossman can be effective but I doubt he'll ever really be great. But once Rex got in there all of a sudden the line got better, the running game looked better and the flow of the offense looked better. It really underscored how terrible McNabb had been. Rex still is prone to mistakes but he brought the intermediate passing game into the equation..

This is exactly it.

Its not that Grossman is going to be a superstar. Its that he fits better than McNabb. That's all. And anyone who wants a 35+ year old McNabb cites "he gives us the best chance to win" as the reason. Well, what if Grossman actually gives us the best chance to win? I know that's hard to admit for some people, but I believe that to be the case (strictly talking McNabb vs. Grossman).

Its not as if this team is going anywhere in 2011-2012...so why not "not go anywhere" with Grossman, who costs much less and brings much less media drama...AND might actually give us the best chance to win.

[aspkikn]

If Mcnabb and Grossman are my choices for starting qb i say bring on the wishbone offense! j/k ( i think?)