Newsmax: Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source

[Destino]

1st of all, yes mother****ers I went to newsmax. deal with it. :pfft:

Check this blurb out from an interview with Rumsfeld on May 2nd.

Asked if harsh interrogation techniques at Guantanamo Bay played a role in obtaining intelligence on bin Laden’s whereabouts, Rumsfeld declares: “First of all, no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo Bay. That’s a myth that’s been perpetrated around the country by critics.

“The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/DonaldRumsfeld-gitmo-waterboarding-osamabinladen/2011/05/02/id/394820

[AsburySkinsFan]

Jack Bauer weeps......

[Teller]

I'm not making a judgement one way or the other based on a Newsmax article (sorry, Des) but if the statements in this story are true, this is a colossal development.

[PeterMP]

I think the key is at GITMO. The DOD didn't waterboard, and they were running Gitmo. The CIA at other places did water boarding of the 3 people they've admitted to water boarding. So the key to Rumsfield's comments is by the DOD at GITMO.

[Koolblue13]

Rumsfeld declares: “First of all, no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo Bay. That’s a myth that’s been perpetrated around the country by critics.

Wouldn't that be something to silence the critics?

[aREDSKIN]

1st of all, yes mother****ers i went to newsmax. Deal with it. :pfft:

lmao.

[Predicto]

I think the key is at GITMO. The DOD didn't waterboard, and they were running Gitmo. The CIA at other places did water boarding of the 3 people they've admitted to water boarding. So the key to Rumsfield's comments is by the DOD at GITMO.

Maybe, maybe not. No one really knows yet.

This whole "waterboarding and torture was necessary for us to capture Bin Laden" meme started just the other day with a statement by Professor John Yoo, the guy who wrote the legal memos justifying torture for the Bush Administration. It was not surprising that he would say that, of course.

No one in the public knows enough yet to decide this one way or the other - but the public being what they are, people's minds will be made up on the issue in the next couple of days with or without evidence, so everyone on both sides is throwing stuff out there to see what sticks.

[twa]

Very good Peter

http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/03/if-youre-determined-to-believe-waterboarding-had-nothing-to-do-with-tracking-down-bin-laden-dont-listen-to-leon-panetta/

[Teller]

Very good Peter

Very good TOOC material.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I posted this yesterday, but apparently no one listens to me.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I posted this yesterday' date=' but apparently no one listens to me.[/quote']

Yeah, but now apparently Rummy is going back on what he said, because he wants the maintain the use of torture as a valid interrogation technique.

[Teller]

Yeah, but now apparently Rummy is going back on what he said, because he wants the maintain the use of torture as a valid interrogation technique.

That's the only possibility, of course.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Yeah, but now apparently Rummy is going back on what he said, because he wants the maintain the use of torture as a valid interrogation technique.

Here is my question: Can they point to any operation during the time, you know, when the actually ran the country that torture proved useful?

This whole "torture works" campaign is designed for two reasons. One it gives the Bush Administration a way to claim credit for a success of the Obama Administration. Two, it allows them a chance to clean up their names a bit in the history books.

[twa]

I posted this yesterday' date=' but apparently no one listens to me.[/quote']

I listened to ya...and pointed out the qualifier in the statement

no one listens to me :pfft:

[Predicto]

Again, none of us know the answer to this, and neither does the Daily Caller or Huffington Post or anyone else. The top people in the intelligence community are probably still unsure.

Nevertheless, everyone is flailing around trying to spin the news cycle. Because it works - whoever gets that initial story out will win the battle. Just ask ACORN.

[KevinthePRF]

Jack Bauer weeps......

....along with every pundit on Faux News.

[AsburySkinsFan]

That's the only possibility, of course.

Rumsfeld is not a voice that I trust. He is a manipulator and has proven himself to be as much. His initial recorded comments were much more believable in that they went against what he has so strongly advocated for years; i.e. torture, so to hear him dialing those comments back on Faux News of all places is not surprising to me, and I don't believe that the reason he did so is hard to figure out either.

[twa]

Again, none of us know the answer to this, and neither does the Daily Caller or Huffington Post or anyone else. The top people in the intelligence community are probably still unsure.

Nevertheless, everyone is flailing around trying to spin the news cycle. Because it works - whoever gets that initial story out will win the battle. Just ask ACORN.

He does not seem unsure

Williams: Turned around the other way, are you denying that waterboarding was in part among the tactics used to extract the intelligence that led to this successful mission?

Panetta: No, I think some of the detainees clearly were — you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I’m also saying that the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question.

Williams: So, final point, one final time: enhanced interrogation techniques, which has always been kind of a handy euphemism in these post-9/11 years, that includes waterboarding.

Panetta: That’s correct.

[AsburySkinsFan]

He does not seem unsure

Williams: Turned around the other way, are you denying that waterboarding was in part among the tactics used to extract the intelligence that led to this successful mission?

Panetta: No, I think some of the detainees clearly were — you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I’m also saying that the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question.

Williams: So, final point, one final time: enhanced interrogation techniques, which has always been kind of a handy euphemism in these post-9/11 years, that includes waterboarding.

Panetta: That’s correct.

And none of what Panetta said there says "Waterboarding led to the intel that Osama was at the compound in Pakistan." All Williams asked was whether waterboarding was "in part among the tactics used", he does not ask the question you want him to ask.

[twa]

There is no proof Osama is dead either...if you ignore everything

[AsburySkinsFan]

There is no proof Osama is dead either...if you ignore everything

twa Williams didn't ask the question you keep wanting him to ask and Paneta isn't saying what you keep trying to make him say. So you can keep up this whole "see torture works" somg and dance but as long as you keep quoting interviews that don't back up what you say then forgive me if I don't take you song seriously.

[mardi gras skin]

I posted this yesterday' date=' but apparently no one listens to me.[/quote']

And I responded but no one listens to me either.

Rumsfeld said we did not use enhanced interrogation to obtain this information. And - hey - when have I ever doubted Rumsfeld?

http://www.talkradionews.com/news/2011/5/3/rumsfeld-waterboarding-didnt-reveal-bin-laden-location.html

I don't necessarily consider Rumsfeld a credible source but for LKB and other Rumsfeld supporters:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/03/rumsfeld_those_who_deny_waterboarding_helped_arent_facing_the_truth.html

"I think that anyone who suggests that enhanced techniques -- let's be blunt' date=' waterboarding -- did not produce an enormous amount of valuable intelligence, just isn't facing the truth. The facts are, a General Mike Hayden came in, he had no connection with waterboarding anybody. He looked at all the evidence and concluded that a major fraction of the intelligence in our country on al-Qaeda came from individuals, the three, only three people who were waterboarded," former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld told "Hannity" on FOX News.[/quote']

---------- Post added May-4th-2011 at 04:35 PM ----------

Yeah, but now apparently Rummy is going back on what he said, because he wants the maintain the use of torture as a valid interrogation technique.

Nope. Rumsfield said that the Department of Defense didn't waterboard and no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo. Separately he said that some of the information leading to the capture of Bin Laden was obtained through waterboarding. Those statements do not contradict each other.

The CIA did the waterboarding at their "black" sites, not at Guantanamo.

[twa]

twa Williams didn't ask the question you keep wanting him to ask and Paneta isn't saying what you keep trying to make him say. So you can keep up this whole "see torture works" somg and dance but as long as you keep quoting interviews that don't back up what you say then forgive me if I don't take you song seriously.

Oh he asked the question....the evasive answers and added qualifier "But I’m also saying that the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question."" are convincing to me,especially in light of other testimony.

Doesn't really matter what either of us believe anyway.

[mardi gras skin]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obama-owes-thanks-and-an-apology-to-cia-interrogators/2011/05/03/AFka7tlF_story.html

Already, critics are desperately trying to play down the CIA interrogation program’s role in the bin Laden operation. Many are pointing to an Associated Press report that KSM “did not discuss al-Kuwaiti while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He acknowledged knowing him many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.”

This statement demonstrates ignorance of how CIA interrogations worked. Interrogators would never have asked about the names of couriers during waterboarding. As I explain in my book, “Courting Disaster,” enhanced techniques were not used to gain intelligence; they were used to elicit cooperation. According to former CIA director Mike Hayden, as enhanced techniques were applied, CIA interrogators would ask detainees questions to which the interrogators already know the answers — allowing them to judge whether the detainees had reached a level of compliance. “They are designed to create a state of cooperation, not to get specific truthful answers to a specific question,” Hayden said.

Once interrogators determined a terrorist had become cooperative, the techniques stopped and traditional, non-coercive methods of questioning were used.

[twa]

Just for kicks....If we had not invaded Iraq would we have captured Ghul?

AP

Then in 2004, top al-Qaida operative Hassan Ghul was captured in Iraq. Ghul told the CIA that al-Kuwaiti was a courier, someone crucial to the terrorist organization. In particular, Ghul said, the courier was close to Faraj al-Libi, who replaced Mohammed as al-Qaida’s operational commander. It was a key break in the hunt for in bin Laden’s personal courier.

“Hassan Ghul was the linchpin,” a U.S. official said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Ghul

Or we can branch off to whether the detentions and CIA black sites were vital :evilg: