Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan ...who you want as head coach?

[pjfootballer]

Gibbs has 3 SBs, but people still trash him when comparing him to Shanahan. Gibbs 2.0 this, Gibbs 2.0 that...have it ever occurred to you that this is Shanahan 2.0 and he just don't have it anymore. When was the last time he won a playoff game again???

Sooo....I'm guessing your pick is Reid? :whoknows:

---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 02:02 PM ----------

This SI article about Jake Plummer has a few little tidbits about his experience w/ Shanny. Nothing huge. Just that he made Plummer feel he couldn't please him. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. Just putting it into the discussion.

"From the start, however, Shanahan and Plummer clashed. One wanted complete control; the other thrived only if not subject to it. "Shanahan used to kill me," says Plummer. "If I was 23 of 30 with two touchdowns, he'd say, Why didn't you go 25 for 30 with three touchdowns? I was like, We're beating someone by 21 points, how much more do you need to beat them by?"

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1181772/5/index.htm#ixzz1EBBuGvUI

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1181772/index.htm

Good. That's the killer instinct I want. I want us to be up by 21 and not think it's enough. The Patriots won 3 SBs with that philosophy.

---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 02:28 PM ----------

I'll never understand why so many people love Shanny even though through 17 years as a head coach he has only won 2 SB's and has been fired just as many times. Oh and his only time of sustained success was with a certain QB at that.

Neither Cowher or Shanny are as great as advertised. Both had great elements on their respective teams when they arrived and were/are over hyped by the press. Sure they're good HC's but both have proven over the course of their career's to have flaws in their overall ability. Both are a far cry from the coaching abilities of the NFL's greatest HC's.

And Shula won only 2 SBs in 23 years...Landry won only 2 in 20 years...etc., etc. You can pretty much say that about any coach that coaches for a long period of time.

I'm just saying that he was set up for success. Excellent defense/ DC, and great FO structure that basically breeds winning players. The fact that he only has one SB in all his years is pretty concerning, considering those circumstances.

Cowher also failed on "Reid Like" proportions. I think the Steelers were in the AFC championship game and lost it at least 5 or 6 times. One lucky run as the 6 seed finally got him over the hump, not to mention zebras in his hip pocket.

---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 02:30 PM ----------

[

Who did Cowher have at quarterback, Neil O'Donnel, and before that? He had a game manager at quarterback all of those years before he got Big Ben. Ben was a game manager his first couple of years but he has turned into a big time quarterback. Now let's look at Shanny, OC of the Niners with probably the greatest array of talent on that side of the ball with names like Young, Rice, Watters. He goes to Denver, John Elway went to 3 superbowls with Dan Reeves as HC. Elway is regarded as one the all time greats. It wasn't like Shanny went into a God forsaken place to coach. He had a good front office and a owner that is willing to spend money to bring in talent. There were pieces there, the most valuable being Elway. I don't think Shanny was the guiding light that everyone thinks he is for the succes of Elway and the Broncos wining those 2 superbowls. if anything Elway made Shanny, look at his record post Elway.

And the same thing could be said about Elway. He couldn't win anything "until" Shanahan put some pieces around him and coached the team. They go hand in hand and neither is more important to them winning the SB. Actually I'll say it was Shanahan drafting Davis that put the Broncos over the hump.

[Commander Adama]

Mike Shanahan

[Loyal2Washington]

And Shula won only 2 SBs in 23 years...Landry won only 2 in 20 years...etc., etc. You can pretty much say that about any coach that coaches for a long period of time.

Cowher also failed on "Reid Like" proportions. I think the Steelers were in the AFC championship game and lost it at least 5 or 6 times. One lucky run as the 6 seed finally got him over the hump, not to mention zebras in his hip pocket.

Your post has nothing to do with the context of mine.

Oh and Cowher was 2-4 in his career in AFC Championship games.

[SirClintonPortis]

I'd rather have Guy Boucher. There is a difference between bein open and being permissive. With the former, you can still keep the players in line. With the latter comes a poor product.

[SKINSFAN87]

Why is this even a thread? Don't we already have the right coach?

[HailGreen28]

Why is this even a thread? Don't we already have the right coach?

The eagles owner was asked who HE would prefer as a coach: Reid or Shanny.

I didn't see anything wrong in his answer. What's he supposed to do, act noncommittal or throw his own coach under the bus?

Reid is a VERY good coach. I'd rather have him or whoever really acts as GM over there, as a GM if I had to replace everybody we have now. But this is a choice between two VERY good coaches.

(Shanny all the way! - HAIL!)

[tex]

To hell with reid. Shanahan all the way.

[isle-hawg]

Shanny is the better coach - but a ****tier GM - which has as big if not more so effect on the team.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Shanny is the better coach - but a ****tier GM - which has as big if not more so effect on the team.

What makes some people so sure that Shanahan is sub-par from a personnel perspective? If you look at the track record of any front office over a long period of time you will see that even the absolute best out there are a bit hit-and-miss when it comes to talent evaluation. It's not an exact science and much of the time success seems to come in bunches with teams going through several years of mediocre offseasons before hitting the jackpot.

[addicted]

The eagles owner was asked who HE would prefer as a coach: Reid or Shanny.

I didn't see anything wrong in his answer. What's he supposed to do, act noncommittal or throw his own coach under the bus?

Of course not but that wasn't his answer, what about this part...

"he doesn’t know anyone that would trade Andy Reid for Mike Shanahan."

Did he really have to say that? Had he simply answered the question with Reid and said nothing else I wouldn't have started this thread. Since he did add that last bit I wanted to know if everyone thought like he did, obviously not. And when your teams run by an idiot like that they won't ever win anything. Losing begets losing

[tdigle]

Is Andy Reid directly responsible for personnel decisions? If not, I'll take Shanahan over Reid. I can't deny that the Eagles have a knack for drafting unbelievable talent (and making shrewd FA acquisitions), but I honestly have no clue how much of this we can attribute to Reid.

[freetimmysmith]

Reid...

if he is coaching me in the Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest

[DavidGQ]

I would have to go with Andy Reid. Andy would not have benched Donovan McNabb for Rex Grossman.

LOL......another funny post. Seriously? Reid traded away McNabb for Kolb. If they didn't have Vick, I wonder how Kolb fared this past season.

Reid is a fine coach. Nothing against him. But I would rather have Shanahan. We need a coach who can discipline this team and we got one. For people who posted stupid stuffs like Shanahan can't win SB without Elway. Shessshhhh....might as well say that to ALL SB winning coaches. Can Beliichick with one without Brady? That's why teams need a franchise QB to win SB and it's not easy to find one.

We talk about being patience now and already after one season people want to go after all the high price over the hill FA. Come on now. Patience means 2 - 5 yrs of drafting and signing young players. We are now in year 2. I dont expect us to be competitive until year 3 and beyond. Really, look at the Steelers. Why are they in in it almost every year? Snyder seems to learn the lessons now and let the football people run football. We need to do the same. Will they be perfect? Nope. But they are going in the right direction. Lets give them a few more years before we make judgement. Patience is not one or two years.

[bedlamVR]

Ermm Reid does have the same personel powers as Shanahan - but a knack for drafting unbelivable tallent - Ok i will bite outside a few - and i meen a few AA+ guys in 2002 and a smattering of people in the last couple of season the Eagles have been poor to average in the draft .

You have Kolb who is likley gone, Fred Ex, Broderick Bunkley, Jerome McDougle, Trevor Laws etc etc .

Shanahan in the last few drafts wit the Broncos

2008 Shanahan picked up the scrubs such as Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Ryan Torrain and Peyton Hillis .

in 2006 the first 4 picks were Jay Cutler, Tony Schaffer, Brandon Marshell and Elvis Dumerville .

You also have the situation in which the Owner was asked the question with the swirl of uncertainty around Reid and his future .

[ATLredskin]

We are talking about the better coach RIGHT NOW. Shanahan is inferior to Reid in every category right now. Don't believe me then look at the Eagles-Redskins game 2 score.

[pjfootballer]

Your post has nothing to do with the context of mine.

Oh and Cowher was 2-4 in his career in AFC Championship games.

I disagree. Landry had a HOF QB Staubach and only won the SB twice. Shula had Greise and Marino and only won it twice.

Oooohhhh, 2-4, let's break out the champagne.

[Enter Apotheosis]

We are talking about the better coach RIGHT NOW. Shanahan is inferior to Reid in every category right now. Don't believe me then look at the Eagles-Redskins game 2 score.

No, we are talking about who people would prefer as a head coach. Besides, Reid might have the better team right now but that doesn't necessarily mean that he is the better coach right now.

[Warhead36]

Shanny took dominating talent and won championships.

Reid has only made it to the Super Bowl once and has a losing record otherwise in conf. title games.

Shanny is the better coach.

[Silverlude311]

Ermm Reid does have the same personel powers as Shanahan - but a knack for drafting unbelivable tallent - Ok i will bite outside a few - and i meen a few AA+ guys in 2002 and a smattering of people in the last couple of season the Eagles have been poor to average in the draft .

You have Kolb who is likley gone, Fred Ex, Broderick Bunkley, Jerome McDougle, Trevor Laws etc etc .

Shanahan in the last few drafts wit the Broncos

2008 Shanahan picked up the scrubs such as Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Ryan Torrain and Peyton Hillis .

in 2006 the first 4 picks were Jay Cutler, Tony Schaffer, Brandon Marshell and Elvis Dumerville .

You also have the situation in which the Owner was asked the question with the swirl of uncertainty around Reid and his future .

The thing with eagles Dline man was they were drafting 1 gap DT's to play a 2 gap scheme. Jim Johnson had all say over defensive players. He told Reid who he wanted and thats how it went.

Reid and Shannahan are both great coaches, Shanahan has taken rings 2 from being a coach but AR also has been on superbowl winning teams.. He was the QB coach of the packers when they won, and Favre was the QB.

AR is a great FO type person but as a coach he lacks brain power some times ( I am an Eagles fan BTW) There are games where he calls a balanced game and the eagles look unbeatable, and then there are times like the 2008 bengles game, and the raiders game from 2009.

The whole benching of Mcnabb thing. Mcnabb had been playing like crap, so he benched him and put in Kolb. The next week Mcnabb started and the eagles went to the NFCCG.

I think Kolb would have panned out this season, but no one knew that Vick would have played better than ever. In the preseason both Kolb and Vick looked like crap, neither played well at all. Kolb did what he could vs the skins, played ok vs the 49ers, played very well vs the falcons, and then actually played well vs the Titans and Hobbs got injured and Britt took over.

Shanahan is a good coach he has 2 rings he had some nice drafts the last few years in denver. But as history shows, no coach has ever won a superbowl with 2 different teams.

I understand Shanahan benching Mcnabb after the season was lost. Just the way he went about it with the media was just odd. I know coaches do not want to tell the truth but that was just getting annoying and im not even a skins fan.

I do agree on what some of you were saying about Cowher. Some people on the Eagles board are in love with him. And I say the same thing some of you say why? He has 1 ring in 15 seasons. If Reid doesn't get one soon I think he will be done as a coach.

[Loyal2Washington]

I disagree. Landry had a HOF QB Staubach and only won the SB twice. Shula had Greise and Marino and only won it twice.

Oooohhhh, 2-4, let's break out the champagne.

I don't care if you disagree, your argument has nothing to do with the context of my post.

You stated Cowher lost 6 AFC Championship games that to was wrong. Whether or not you like a coach is irrelevant to me but you should keep the facts clear and accurate.

[bedlamVR]

The thing with eagles Dline man was they were drafting 1 gap DT's to play a 2 gap scheme. Jim Johnson had all say over defensive players. He told Reid who he wanted and thats how it went.

Reid and Shannahan are both great coaches, Shanahan has taken rings 2 from being a coach but AR also has been on superbowl winning teams.. He was the QB coach of the packers when they won, and Favre was the QB.

AR is a great FO type person but as a coach he lacks brain power some times ( I am an Eagles fan BTW) There are games where he calls a balanced game and the eagles look unbeatable, and then there are times like the 2008 bengles game, and the raiders game from 2009..

I have to ask you then as an Eagles fan what is your take on the OL coach as the DC . . . . also is Kolb gone - I think he has had a rough ride with the Eagles - but then I am not sure he is anything but a relief hitter . Seems inconsistant ....

[Enter Apotheosis]

Reid and Shannahan are both great coaches, Shanahan has taken rings 2 from being a coach but AR also has been on superbowl winning teams.. He was the QB coach of the packers when they won, and Favre was the QB.

Technically, Reid got his ring as an assistant offensive line coach, he got promoted to QBs coach the next year which resulted in the Packers losing the title game to Shanahan's Broncos. So all-in-all he has been to the Super Bowl as a coach in some capacity on three separate occasions and has a 1-2 record (0-1 as head coach, of course). That's fairly good for any NFL coach but it still pales in comparison to Mike Shanahan's five appearances with a 3-2 record (2-0 as head coach).

[Leonard Washington]

Super bowls trump but I'll take Reid.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Super bowls trump but I'll take Reid.

Then Super Bowls don't really trump do they?

[Silverlude311]

I have to ask you then as an Eagles fan what is your take on the OL coach as the DC . . . . also is Kolb gone - I think he has had a rough ride with the Eagles - but then I am not sure he is anything but a relief hitter . Seems inconsistant ....

At first it was a wtf are you doing type thing, but after a few days / weeks you kind of got to see what it will look like. It looks like they are just going to work off of Washburns Scheme. No more 2 gap crap, its back to the one gap with the dends out wide. Laws should excel in this, as should Bunkley. Patterson would have been great in this scheme but I think he is just too fat now. Coming out of college they called him baby sapp lol. But they have made him a fat two gapper. It will be interesting to see how Dixon works in a one gap system (thanks for cutting him btw lol) He was an instant upgrade to our run D last season.

As for Kolb. Honestly I dont know. They want to keep him, but they also want a first and then some for him. He can play but I think he needs weapons to be good. Atleast a Larry Fitz, or AP type of player. He has his great games (vs the Chiefs in 09 and vs the Falcons last year) And then he has his games where its like wtf are you doing.

I think the whole Mcnabb/Grossman Kolb/ Vick was different. Kolb got hurt, and Vick was playing out of his mind, you couldnt bench him with the way he was playing. Living in MD I get to see all the skins game And to me it looked like Kyle S called a totally differnt game for Grossman than Mcnabb. I hardley ever saw Mcnabb throw a screen pass, where as grossman had screens a lot. I know Mcnabbs not the most accurate passer but i think he would have been better than Grossman with the same plays called.

As for losing your job to injury, Kolb lost his, because Vick was just playing too good. Same with Bunkley, once he got hurt and Dixon took over the run D improved a ton.