@DCGoldPants Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Reid is this Era's Marty Schottenheimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood1127 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I would have to go with Andy Reid. Andy would not have benched Donovan McNabb for Rex Grossman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I would have to go with Andy Reid. Andy would not have benched Donovan McNabb for Rex Grossman. Really? Because he benched McNabb for Kolb last year, after drafting Kolb while McNabb was still in his prime, and then, after trading McNabb, benched Kolb (who was out due to injury) for Vick long-term, breaking the "you can't lose your job due to injury" psuedo-law. If anyone was going to bench McNabb for stinking up the joint, it was going to be Reid. Or Shanahan. And that's not even getting into the actual argument, here: That you seem to think benching McNabb for Grossman was a BAD move, after seeing how it turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 LOL - on his tombstone it will read - Here lies Mike Shanahan. He once benched an injured, over the hill QB. May God have mercy on his soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 LOL - on his tombstone it will read - Here lies Mike Shanahan. He once benched an injured, over the hill QB. May God have mercy on his soul. Hahaha. Nice, Tris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 LOL - on his tombstone it will read - Here lies Mike Shanahan. He once benched an injured, over the hill QB. May God have mercy on his soul. Hahaha there is a special place in hell for someone who does that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood1127 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Really? Because he benched McNabb for Kolb last year, after drafting Kolb while McNabb was still in his prime, and then, after trading McNabb, benched Kolb (who was out due to injury) for Vick long-term, breaking the "you can't lose your job due to injury" psuedo-law. If anyone was going to bench McNabb for stinking up the joint, it was going to be Reid. Or Shanahan. And that's not even getting into the actual argument, here: That you seem to think benching McNabb for Grossman was a BAD move, after seeing how it turned out. But seriously. McNabb for Grossman? Grossman did no better. He got in there and threw interceptions as well. Either way, Shannahan wasted two draft picks on McNabb just to keep him for one season? If we get rid of McNabb who is going to teach the new QB how to play, Rex Grossman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 But seriously. McNabb for Grossman? Grossman did no better. He got in there and threw interceptions as well. Either way, Shannahan wasted two draft picks on McNabb just to keep him for one season? If we get rid of McNabb who is going to teach the new QB how to play, Rex Grossman? So you'd rather throw good money after bad then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Tough call. On the one hand I was not a Mike Shanahan fan prior to his hire and if I were in charge, he and Bruce Allen were not the direction I would have gone in. Some still insist on calling Mike Shanahan a HOF coach and right or wrong I still think he should be viewed as someone who won with Elway and Davis leading his offense. His record without them speaks for itself. For Shanahan to gain HOF status, he will have to at least reach a Super Bowl with another team. The other strike against Shanahan is that I do think that there is something to the fact that once a coach wins the Super Bowl, the passion isn't the same anymore. So Reid does have this over him, Shanahan has his two rings and Reid is still seeking his so having a coach with that passion and hunger is appealing. The thing that is in Shanahan's favor is that he never quit. He wasn't "burned out" and completely quit the game like a Joe Gibbs did. In his one year off (as opposed to Gibbs' 12) Shanahan studied film, talked to coaches and setup his own defacto scouting/coaching operation in exile as he waited for his next shot. He does appear to have that fire that most coaches with his resume and years experience don't have. So it's sort of tough to decide and then I remember the other hand which is, wait a minute it's Andy Reid the guy is a loser. ---------- Post added February-17th-2011 at 01:57 PM ---------- But seriously. McNabb for Grossman? Grossman did no better. He got in there and threw interceptions as well. Either way, Shannahan wasted two draft picks on McNabb just to keep him for one season? If we get rid of McNabb who is going to teach the new QB how to play, Rex Grossman? Grossman threw touchdowns, something McNabb didn't do. As for "teaching a new QB", that job falls on Mike Shanahan and Kyle Shanahan. Rex would be there to show the new QB how to run the offense once on the field. You can't possibly think McNabb is the guy anyone would want to have to teach a young QB how to run this offense? If people are still trying to push the nonsense that Grossman was not an upgrade over McNabb, well I don't know what to say. It must be nice living in a dreamworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 But seriously. McNabb for Grossman? Grossman did no better. He got in there and threw interceptions as well. Either way, Shannahan wasted two draft picks on McNabb just to keep him for one season? If we get rid of McNabb who is going to teach the new QB how to play, Rex Grossman? First off, you need to go back to those 3-4 games and watch the offense. It was absolutely better under Grossman. I'm not worried about the interceptions. The guy didn't start a game for a couple of years, and then was thrown in there to close out the season. Consider that. He absolutely played better than McNabb. And more importantly, he ran our offense more effectively, with a higher-tempo, and more efficiently. As Mike Shanahan said, sometimes you make a mistake. You don't just stick with that mistake to avoid admitting you were wrong. So we should keep McNabb and pay him a **** load of money, just because we traded two picks for him? That's Vinny Cerrato thinking. And yes, I'd much rather have Rex Grossman "grooming" a rookie than McNabb. Most of the reason why McNabb has failed so far in this system is because he didn't work WITHIN the system, and didn't change the things the Shanahan's wanted him to change about his game and his mechanics. That's not the guy I want grooming a rookie who needs to be molded to fit this system, sorry. Grossman is a capable, hard-working vet who can't get by just on physical ability, and who will be in his third year in the system. I'd much rather him be grooming our future QB, for a quarter of the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B55Green Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Shanahan without a doubt, I seriously think if Reid wasn't the coach in Philly they'd have at least two Super Bowls by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If we get rid of McNabb who is going to teach the new QB how to play, Rex Grossman? They hire coaches for that kind of that thing. The myth about the grizzled vet helping the young kid to learn the ropes is largely just that, a myth. Generally the older guy may be professional and even friendly but he wants to keep his job and the kid is trying to take it away. In any case I would not want a young QB to watch McNabb and learn how to run our offense given McNabb himself seems to have his own problems running it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal2Washington Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'll never understand why so many people love a coach that took 15 years to win it all with one of the best FO structures in the league, and won it because of his DC and GM, at that. I'll never understand why so many people love Shanny even though through 17 years as a head coach he has only won 2 SB's and has been fired just as many times. Oh and his only time of sustained success was with a certain QB at that. Neither Cowher or Shanny are as great as advertised. Both had great elements on their respective teams when they arrived and were/are over hyped by the press. Sure they're good HC's but both have proven over the course of their career's to have flaws in their overall ability. Both are a far cry from the coaching abilities of the NFL's greatest HC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'll never understand why so many people love Shanny even though through 17 years as a head coach he has only won 2 SB's and has been fired just as many times. Oh and his only time of sustained success was with a certain QB at that. Neither Cowher or Shanny are as great as advertised. Both had great elements on their respective teams when they arrived and were/are over hyped by the press. Sure they're good HC's but both have proven over the course of their career's to have flaws in their overall ability. Both are a far cry from the coaching abilities of the NFL's greatest HC's. These are all arguments that you could make, and that's fine....except I wasn't comparing Cowher to anyone. I was saying he's overrated, and shouldn't be, which you agree with. Just out of curiosity, who do you think are the NFL's current great head coaches? Besides the obvious, Belichick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P007 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'll never understand why so many people love a coach that took 15 years to win it all with one of the best FO structures in the league, and won it because of his DC and GM, at that. To Cowher's defense he took 2 different teams to the superbowl in 2 different decades. The superbowl isn't the easiest game to win. if so then every team in this league would have one at least one. If my memory serves me correct, Cowher took his Steeler's team to Denver and handed Shanny's ass to him on the way to a superbowl victory. Also football is the ultimate team sport, every unit on a football team contributes to its success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 To Cowher's defense he took 2 different teams to the superbowl in 2 different decades. The superbowl isn't the easiest game to win. if so then every team in this league would have one at least one. If my memory serves me correct, Cowher took his Steeler's team to Denver and handed Shanny's ass to him on the way to a superbowl victory. Also football is the ultimate team sport, every unit on a football team contributes to its success. I'm just saying that he was set up for success. Excellent defense/ DC, and great FO structure that basically breeds winning players. The fact that he only has one SB in all his years is pretty concerning, considering those circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P007 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm just saying that he was set up for success. Excellent defense/ DC, and great FO structure that basically breeds winning players. The fact that he only has one SB in all his years is pretty concerning, considering those circumstances. Who did Cowher have at quarterback, Neil O'Donnel, and before that? He had a game manager at quarterback all of those years before he got Big Ben. Ben was a game manager his first couple of years but he has turned into a big time quarterback. Now let's look at Shanny, OC of the Niners with probably the greatest array of talent on that side of the ball with names like Young, Rice, Watters. He goes to Denver, John Elway went to 3 superbowls with Dan Reeves as HC. Elway is regarded as one the all time greats. It wasn't like Shanny went into a God forsaken place to coach. He had a good front office and a owner that is willing to spend money to bring in talent. There were pieces there, the most valuable being Elway. I don't think Shanny was the guiding light that everyone thinks he is for the succes of Elway and the Broncos wining those 2 superbowls. if anything Elway made Shanny, look at his record post Elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitmandm Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Bill Cowher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Even though Shanahan will drive people nuts, I would definitely take a coach who has rings over one that has none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal2Washington Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 These are all arguments that you could make, and that's fine....except I wasn't comparing Cowher to anyone. I was saying he's overrated, and shouldn't be, which you agree with. Just out of curiosity, who do you think are the NFL's current great head coaches? Besides the obvious, Belichick. Current great HC's? Not sure there are any Gibbs, Parcell, Walsh, etc. caliber coaches right. The young guys I like but still have a ways to go before being considered "great". McCarthy has done a great job dealing with the Favre drama early in his career and now has a ring. Tomlin has had a very nice start to his coaching career including dealing with QB drama and earning a ring. Payton has put together some impressive Saints teams. Mike Smith in ATL has turned them into a perennial playoff team in no time. My point with the Shanny comment was in essence we would have the same HC if Cowher were here. So yes we do agree on that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brotherz Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 If we can trade our front office's with the birds, I wouldn't care which of these two coaches we had. We aren't losing because Mike Shannahan is a bad coach. The eagles aren't winning just because Andy is a great coach. They are both world class coaches. We can spend an hour discussing how Andy can't win the big game, refuses to run the ball despite being in a cold weather city in January, makes some horrific game time decisions, etc. but the proof is in the pudding man. The guy knows how to run a football program. I lived in Philly when he inherited Ray Rhodes team. It was a disaster area. Then he went and did a bunch of stuff that absurd fan base was ready to lynch him over (Drafting Mcnabb, starting Doug Petersen, etc). He makes tough smart decisions and he is a great coach. We can spend an hour going over Shannahan's career and deciding that we should only look at the seasons when he had certain players, and remove the Championship seasons because his players were really good which makes very little sense to me. I'd like to examine Phil Jackson that way in hoops. He'd be the worst coach in history if you just removed the Jordan and Kobe years. Its just a dumb analysis all the way around. There are two types of coaches: Coaches with great players and . . . Fired coaches. The difference in these two organizations over the past decade has been fiscal responsibility in the cap era, talent evaluation, shrewd contract negotiation, winning culture and character people. One franchise has done that right. One hasn't. The skins are going in the right direction. Bruce and Shanny are cultivating a winning culture. It takes time. If you looked at the first season under Reid, the same cancer cutting treatment was going on. ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 12:19 PM ---------- I would have to go with Andy Reid. Andy would not have benched Donovan McNabb for Rex Grossman. Do you remember the Balitmore game when he benched him for a completely green Kolb only to have Kolb have an absolutely diastrous performance in that game? Do you remember him starting Doug Petersen? Andy does what's best for his team. He is not immune from a bad decision either. Shannahan benching Mcnabb may have been a mistake but its hardly an indication that he isn't a world class football coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzwiz Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Honestly I would rather have MIKE TOMLIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Some still insist on calling Mike Shanahan a HOF coach and right or wrong I still think he should be viewed as someone who won with Elway and Davis leading his offense. His record without them speaks for itself. For Shanahan to gain HOF status, he will have to at least reach a Super Bowl with another team. Practically every single great coach to ever grace an NFL sideline had the overwhelming majority of their success with a single hall of fame caliber QB taking snaps and several other elite talents on both sides of the ball. You absolutely cannot diminish one coach's record because they had good players without diminishing that of every other coach who had good players. Bill Belichick has Tom Brady, Mike Shanahan had John Elway, Bill Walsh had Joe Montana, Vince Lombardi had Bart Starr, and Paul Brown had Otto Graham. No one dares diminish the ability of any of those guys for the players that they had except for Shanahan (and perhaps Belichick if you're just a hater) but guess who the worst QB on that list (relative to their own era) is by a wide margin? John Elway. It's hard for some of us to digest that as Skins fans because our legacy includes the only coach in the history of the NFL who got it done multiple times without a franchise QB. Just remember that Gibbs is the exception here, not the rule. The other strike against Shanahan is that I do think that there is something to the fact that once a coach wins the Super Bowl, the passion isn't the same anymore. So Reid does have this over him, Shanahan has his two rings and Reid is still seeking his so having a coach with that passion and hunger is appealing. That depends more on the individual than anything else. Some people certainly are content merely reaching the pinnacle once while others can't help but want more after they get their first taste. Does Shanahan really strike you as someone who is wholly content with his accomplishments? I don't really get that vibe at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper 21 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 If we can trade our front office's with the birds, I wouldn't care which of these two coaches we had. We aren't losing because Mike Shannahan is a bad coach. The eagles aren't winning just because Andy is a great coach. They are both world class coaches. We can spend an hour discussing how Andy can't win the big game, refuses to run the ball despite being in a cold weather city in January, makes some horrific game time decisions, etc. but the proof is in the pudding man. The guy knows how to run a football program. I lived in Philly when he inherited Ray Rhodes team. It was a disaster area. Then he went and did a bunch of stuff that absurd fan base was ready to lynch him over (Drafting Mcnabb, starting Doug Petersen, etc). He makes tough smart decisions and he is a great coach. We can spend an hour going over Shannahan's career and deciding that we should only look at the seasons when he had certain players, and remove the Championship seasons because his players were really good which makes very little sense to me. I'd like to examine Phil Jackson that way in hoops. He'd be the worst coach in history if you just removed the Jordan and Kobe years. Its just a dumb analysis all the way around. There are two types of coaches: Coaches with great players and . . . Fired coaches. The difference in these two organizations over the past decade has been fiscal responsibility in the cap era, talent evaluation, shrewd contract negotiation, winning culture and character people. One franchise has done that right. One hasn't. The skins are going in the right direction. Bruce and Shanny are cultivating a winning culture. It takes time. If you looked at the first season under Reid, the same cancer cutting treatment was going on. ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 12:19 PM ---------- Do you remember the Balitmore game when he benched him for a completely green Kolb only to have Kolb have an absolutely diastrous performance in that game? Do you remember him starting Doug Petersen? Andy does what's best for his team. He is not immune from a bad decision either. Shannahan benching Mcnabb may have been a mistake but its hardly an indication that he isn't a world class football coach. can somebody make a thread for hof posts cuz this was the best thinkg i read since i joined period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brotherz Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 can somebody make a thread for hof posts cuz this was the best thinkg i read since i joined period Wow thanks! HAHAHAHAHAAHA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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