How Leonard Hankerson could fit with the Redskins

[bowhunter]

Wait, I thought we were gonna spend our 2nd on McElroy. ...If we add a WR via FA, then I'd rather spend yet another pick on this position. We need fatboys on either side of the ball and a QB.

[pjfootballer]

Yeah, I know. But there's always some that go higher than expected it. And being that there are only 2 clear cut WRs better than Smith, don't be surprised when he goes first round.

You have teams late in the first round such as Chicago, Atlanta, and maybe even Pittsburgh that could go WR first round.

Green and Julio Jones are rated higher than Smith. I'm a MD fan, but I think Baldwin with Pitt also rates higher.

I'd be OK with Hankerson or Torrey Smith in the 2nd if we go in another direction in the 1st. Somewhere along the line, we need a WR.

[The Tris]

A typical slot receiver is smaller and quicker, to exploit the matchups with linebackers and safeties. Anthony Armstrong fits that bill to a T. That's why Moss was so effective in the slot, he was able to beat the linebackers and safeties on his routes.

Except Armstong has demonstrated that he has the speed and play making ability to be a deep threat, which is the exact opposite a slot WR.

We would be taking his skill set and putting him in a position where they are being least effectively utilized.

[Going Commando]

Except Armstong has demonstrated that he has the speed and play making ability to be a deep threat, which is the exact opposite a slot WR.

We would be taking his skill set and putting him in a position where they are being least effectively utilized.

Agreed. Armstrong should be a flanker in our offense, much like Greg Jennings is for the Packers. That's the kind of player he is.

In the slot you want a guy whose quicker as opposed to fast. Your speed guys are kind of precious which is usually why they play outside. Slot guys need to be able to build separation quickly but what they do after the first few steps isn't as important as it is for outside receivers. They just need to be tough and quick--Wes Welker.

I like Hankerson and I think the tutoring he received from Mark Duper is a nifty little anecdote. Hankerson seems like a really nice kid and he's got a Reggie Wayne-like build and set of talents. I don't think he's as smart, savvy, sure-handed, and skillful a route runner as Wayne was. But he's tough and has an excellent frame and solid athleticism. I could see him being a much better NFL player than he was in college and that's saying something because he had an excellent season.

---------- Post added February-11th-2011 at 03:34 PM ----------

Green and Julio Jones are rated higher than Smith. I'm a MD fan, but I think Baldwin with Pitt also rates higher.

I'd be OK with Hankerson or Torrey Smith in the 2nd if we go in another direction in the 1st. Somewhere along the line, we need a WR.

On athletic ability alone, I think Baldwin rates higher than Smith and Hankerson. But Baldwin strikes me as a complete prima donna and baby. I wouldn't touch him with a pole. We don't need his crap on our roster. I'd rank Smith and Hankerson way ahead of him. I probably wouldn't even put Baldwin on my board.

[pjfootballer]

On athletic ability alone, I think Baldwin rates higher than Smith and Hankerson. But Baldwin strikes me as a complete prima donna and baby. I wouldn't touch him with a pole. We don't need his crap on our roster. I'd rank Smith and Hankerson way ahead of him. I probably wouldn't even put Baldwin on my board.

I was thinking draft rank, not so much factors like attitude. He's still a talented WR. Randy Moss was a prima donna coming out. Things turned out pretty good for him.

[Going Commando]

I was thinking draft rank, not so much factors like attitude. He's still a talented WR. Randy Moss was a prima donna coming out. Things turned out pretty good for him.

Yeah but he was a significantly better talent. Moss ranks alongside Deion Sanders as one of the greatest athletes to ever play the game, so no prospect is going to measure up evenly with him. Besides, his talent was such that he had to succeed in spite of his Prima Donna attitude and he still ended up changing teams four times. His act doesn't take long to wear thin. That's not really what we want out of our draft pick.

[pjfootballer]

Yeah but he was a significantly better talent. Moss ranks alongside Deion Sanders as one of the greatest athletes to ever play the game, so no prospect is going to measure up evenly with him. Besides, his talent was such that he had to succeed in spite of his Prima Donna attitude and he still ended up changing teams four times. His act doesn't take long to wear thin. That's not really what we want out of our draft pick.

True, I wasn't really advocating we take Baldwin. I was just saying that there were other WRs with as much talent as Torrey Smith. And I'm a MD fan and a big fan of Smith's.

[canes/skins]

I am a canes season ticket holder i love hankerson he would be great for this team. yes he was inconsistant but not his senior year he was a monster! if we had consistant qb play the scary thing is his # 's would of been even better he showed his ability at the senior bowl. He was th best player on the field even ponder knew that im telling u guys this guy is a beast i would love to get him. and as much as i hate to even say it but i would draft ponder late round he fits the shanny mold athletic, strong arm, accuracy is pretty good. or kapernick!

[Going Commando]

True, I wasn't really advocating we take Baldwin. I was just saying that there were other WRs with as much talent as Torrey Smith. And I'm a MD fan and a big fan of Smith's.

The nice thing about Smith is that he's squeaky clean in his character. He's a tough, hard-nosed, level headed guy, more in the mold of a Hines Ward (without the dirty play) than a Terrell Owens or Randy Moss.

Smith is also blazing fast too so he's no slouch athletically. College fans are harsher on their own players than anyone else is. I think Smith measures up pretty well as a late first to early second round selection.

[Dukes and Skins]

The nice thing about Smith is that he's squeaky clean in his character. He's a tough, hard-nosed, level headed guy, more in the mold of a Hines Ward (without the dirty play) than a Terrell Owens or Randy Moss.

Smith is also blazing fast too so he's no slouch athletically. College fans are harsher on their own players than anyone else is. I think Smith measures up pretty well as a late first to early second round selection.

Saw him being projected to the late 1st now and would be good for him and I hope he does well.

[Commander Adama]

From the article: Had a pretty serious problem with drops early in his collegiate career.

50-50 Part Deux?

[KDawg]

From the article: Had a pretty serious problem with drops early in his collegiate career.

50-50 Part Deux?

Lately, it seems like no one reads my posts

I said that earlier in the thread!!

Hahaha

[Going Commando]

Lately, it seems like no one reads my posts

I said that earlier in the thread!!

Hahaha

Judging by this season, he seems to have improved though. I don't know how often he actually met with Mark Duper to school him on limiting his drops. It was widely reported though so I'm guessing it was at least several times.

I did see a news story about the kind of concentration drills he was practicing and they looked like they were effective. Maybe he's finally turned a corner from a mental standpoint? Julio Jones definitely seemed to improve his hands and concentration level from last year to this year so I think it can be done. Bad habits can be corrected with lots and lots of reps, can the same be true for concentration?

[KDawg]

Judging by this season, he seems to have improved though. I don't know how often he actually met with Mark Duper to school him on limiting his drops. It was widely reported though so I'm guessing it was at least several times.

I did see a news story about the kind of concentration drills he was practicing and they looked like they were effective. Maybe he's finally turned a corner from a mental standpoint? Julio Jones definitely seemed to improve his hands and concentration level from last year to this year so I think it can be done. Bad habits can be corrected with lots and lots of reps, can the same be true for concentration?

Put it this way... If you thing his bad habits can be corrected, so can Cam's.

He might have gotten better, but it doesn't speak well for the guy if he only corrected it his senior season. It means he knows a contract was on the line with the NFL. *shrug*

If he's improved as much as everyone says he did (I'm not sure I buy into that) then I wouldn't be opposed. Hell, I'm not opposed to a late round flyer on him now... I just don't want him to be a contract year player.

[Laxpunk2006]

Split the difference

---------- Post added February-10th-2011 at 11:14 PM ----------

A typical slot receiver is smaller and quicker, to exploit the matchups with linebackers and safeties. Anthony Armstrong fits that bill to a T. That's why Moss was so effective in the slot, he was able to beat the linebackers and safeties on his routes.

I completely agree with your analysis of what makes a good slot reciever but that isn't Anthony Armstrong. He is about an inch shy of average height for a reciever but he isn't "small" as far as height goes. He is also much more "fast" than "quick." How many routes have we honestly seen Armstrong run? He's a post/go guy. He has the long speed to get behind safeties which is rare in this league. That's why you see guys like Troy Williamson and Darius Heyward-Bey going top 10 when they can barely catch the ball.

Armstrong isn't a shifty guy by any means. I don't see him having the route running ability or the shiftiness to avoid the big hits he would take from linebackers going over the middle. I can't even recall him ever going across the middle this season though I'm sure he did once or twice.

Obviously this is a highlight reel of deep balls but it's obvious this is what he does best. Taking Armstrong out of a flanker role and moving him to the slot would be like shifting Landry back to FS after seeing how good he can be at strong. He could do it but it would be playing to his weakness rather than his strength. I see Armstrong as a Bernard Berrian or Donte Stallworth type more than a Moss or a Percy Harvin. Frankly he is much more similar to Randy Moss than Santana Moss.

[Hitman21ST]

I completely agree with your analysis of what makes a good slot reciever but that isn't Anthony Armstrong. He is about an inch shy of average height for a reciever but he isn't "small" as far as height goes. He is also much more "fast" than "quick." How many routes have we honestly seen Armstrong run? He's a post/go guy. He has the long speed to get behind safeties which is rare in this league. That's why you see guys like Troy Williamson and Darius Heyward-Bey going top 10 when they can barely catch the ball.

Armstrong isn't a shifty guy by any means. I don't see him having the route running ability or the shiftiness to avoid the big hits he would take from linebackers going over the middle. I can't even recall him ever going across the middle this season though I'm sure he did once or twice.

Obviously this is a highlight reel of deep balls but it's obvious this is what he does best. Taking Armstrong out of a flanker role and moving him to the slot would be like shifting Landry back to FS after seeing how good he can be at strong. He could do it but it would be playing to his weakness rather than his strength. I see Armstrong as a Bernard Berrian or Donte Stallworth type more than a Moss or a Percy Harvin. Frankly he is much more similar to Randy Moss than Santana Moss.

Good points, I didn't really think of it like that. However, with his speed why wouldn't that make him ideal to matchup with LBs or Safeties? If you put him in the slot, he can still run those posts and go's, but instead of having to beat a Corner AND a Safety, shouldn't him being in the slot just make him have to beat a Safety and maybe a LB? You could also get him on the quick outs, bubble screens, etc, that cater to his speed. By having him on the outside you have him matched up with a corner and limit the routes he can effectively run...slants, go's, posts...those are the three main routes that would use his speed. He can still run the go's, posts, and slants in the slot, but also the quick outs, bubble screens, wheels, corners, etc.

It just seems to me that he would be better used in the slot. Just my $.02

[Laxpunk2006]

Good points, I didn't really think of it like that. However, with his speed why wouldn't that make him ideal to matchup with LBs or Safeties? If you put him in the slot, he can still run those posts and go's, but instead of having to beat a Corner AND a Safety, shouldn't him being in the slot just make him have to beat a Safety and maybe a LB? You could also get him on the quick outs, bubble screens, etc, that cater to his speed. By having him on the outside you have him matched up with a corner and limit the routes he can effectively run...slants, go's, posts...those are the three main routes that would use his speed. He can still run the go's, posts, and slants in the slot, but also the quick outs, bubble screens, wheels, corners, etc.

It just seems to me that he would be better used in the slot. Just my $.02

First of all I hope you don't take all of my responses as me trying to pick on you, I actually think this is a healthy debate.

I suppose you're right that there really isn't any reason he couldn't still run a fly/go route or a post out of the slot. Matching him up against a linebacker or forcing them to creep up a safety to match up could open up the deep game even more.

As far as the slant I see that as more of a "skill" route. There is very little room to get up to speed and they're generally making a break within that 5 yard range so whether it's a corner, safety, or linebacker they should be able to get a good jam on him. In that case you either need someone nimble enough (Moss/Welker), strong enough (TO/Boldin), or skilled as a route runner to create seperation (Torry Holt/Jerry Rice). Armstrong could very well possess all three of these traits but I haven't personally seen it. I have the whole season recorded so I'll be taking a second look over Spring Break next month. Maybe I'll see something to get excited about.

From what I understand slot recievers are generally used for the underneath stuff. That was fairly evident in Moss' drop in YPC this season as it didn't look to me like he lost any of his speed. They're working in a tighter space so they need to create space. I don't think Armstrong is a long strider but he seems like more of a sprinter than a guy who is going to box out like a basketball player. How many times have we really seen him make a play for short yardage or in the red zone?

There isn't much else to discuss football-wise so I'd love to hear ideas of how we can best utilize some of our talent here. Then again I guess I'm getting way off topic from the thread so maybe we should take this elsewhere.

[NattyLight]

My wife went to the U, as such I watched all but one of their games this year. Hankerson is beast for sure, the numbers even in the absence of J. Harris was very good, however he did have his share of drops (which could be offset with the number of catches he made involving horrible passes).

Great size, very good route running and speed, good hands. Great mid-second round pick in my opinion.

[HoggLife]

What about trading down in the 1st and drafting Mark Ingrim in the 1st and Hankerson in the second. I think that would then give us a great RB combo and Hankerson and Moss at WR. Then we can grab one of those 2nd tier QBs later in the draft. It seems like there is a good chance a QB drops late in the draft that has lots of potential. Then in Free Agency sign Joesph, Kahli and Woodley.

[cphil006]

Isn't he 6'0 205 pounds with decent not blazing speed? Aren't there 15 of these guys in every draft?

[Conn]

Leonard Hankerson reminds me a lot of Marques Colston. A lot. I'd take a Marques Colston in the 3rd-4th round (if we could acquire those picks), knowing what the original became after falling so far in the draft. And he doesn't have the injury worries.

[Hitman21ST]

Isn't he 6'0 205 pounds with decent not blazing speed? Aren't there 15 of these guys in every draft?

6'2, 205...doesn't have a quick fist step, but his speed is pretty good.

First of all I hope you don't take all of my responses as me trying to pick on you, I actually think this is a healthy debate.

I suppose you're right that there really isn't any reason he couldn't still run a fly/go route or a post out of the slot. Matching him up against a linebacker or forcing them to creep up a safety to match up could open up the deep game even more.

As far as the slant I see that as more of a "skill" route. There is very little room to get up to speed and they're generally making a break within that 5 yard range so whether it's a corner, safety, or linebacker they should be able to get a good jam on him. In that case you either need someone nimble enough (Moss/Welker), strong enough (TO/Boldin), or skilled as a route runner to create seperation (Torry Holt/Jerry Rice). Armstrong could very well possess all three of these traits but I haven't personally seen it. I have the whole season recorded so I'll be taking a second look over Spring Break next month. Maybe I'll see something to get excited about.

From what I understand slot recievers are generally used for the underneath stuff. That was fairly evident in Moss' drop in YPC this season as it didn't look to me like he lost any of his speed. They're working in a tighter space so they need to create space. I don't think Armstrong is a long strider but he seems like more of a sprinter than a guy who is going to box out like a basketball player. How many times have we really seen him make a play for short yardage or in the red zone?

There isn't much else to discuss football-wise so I'd love to hear ideas of how we can best utilize some of our talent here. Then again I guess I'm getting way off topic from the thread so maybe we should take this elsewhere.

No, I don't see your posts as attacking me. Your comments on the slant are what make me think he would fit better in the slot. As the slant is generally a route run by the flanker/split end (giving them the room to actually do the slant action), the speed factor really doesn't come into play, so having a fast player such as Armstrong on the outside running it would defeat the purpose. That's why I was arguing for him in the slot, where he wouldn't be running slants.

But other than that, I agree with what you're saying.

[flock53]

Jonathan Baldwin from Pitt is my choice in the second

[Hitman21ST]

Jonathan Baldwin from Pitt is my choice in the second

Has he declared?

[Dukes and Skins]

Has he declared?

The deadline passed so he would have had to declared