darrelgreenie Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 - Maybe it's me but both you and MartinC seemed to put extra emphasis on stressing that a WR was wide open, as if that is a knock on Newton... - Also it seems that Newton gets knocked in the write-up for a lot of his passing plays utilizing some form of play-action...again why is that a negative? Andrew Luck and Stanford's offense was a predominate play-action passing offense as well, and play-action DEFINITELY translates to the next-level... Again these are just some minor nits I had to pick with you guys' write-ups, but other than these minor things I listed, I think you guys were very accurate in your assessment! I also like that you both are now seeing the Big Ben comparison...I've been saying that Newton compares to Big Ben or Steve McNair for a while now...I've always thought that the JC, VY, or Jamarcus Russell comparisons were absolutely ridiculous... First, thank you. I think i've been fairly consistent in all the QB threads if a WR is wide open I mention it b/c its part of the play the same w/ PA. I'm not mentioning it as a knock. I agree PA does translate and the fact that a QB does a lot of PA is a testament to their ball handling and Cam has very few fumbles on the season. I'm not on board w/ the Ben comparison in general b/c I think Ben is fas more limited athlete but I agree that Cam has great escapability and is a hard guy to bring down. Newton's escapability and overall physical skillset is more in the realm of a Vince Young then Ben. I don't see how that's a negative in anyway. Vince has a great skillset and Cam's is even better; Mayock has said that Cam is a better passer then Vince Young was at the same stage. I know some of you guys are younger but Cam's running/elusiveness reminds me of Randall Cunningham. ---------- Post added February-10th-2011 at 11:31 AM ---------- NFL rules prohibit NFL scouts from attending a player workout other than at the NFL Scouting Combine late this month, or at his university’s pro workout day. but Team Newton can send tape of the 60 to 90 minutes workout to NFL teams.Good interview with Cam before the Pro Bowl. He talks about the media workout around the 5:00 mark. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-super-bowl/09000d5d81e212f4/Cam-Newton-on-set Thanks. I thought that was the case but wasn't sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Newton's escapability and overall physical skillset is more in the realm of a Vince Young then Ben. I see more Josh Freeman than Vince Young. KEMlwwu464k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't know. But as to why Newton's doing it, one of the knocks on Newton is work ethic/self-improvement and I'm sure this is his handlers' attempt at dispelling that. Even Cam says he wasn't mature and ready to play at Florida but I would like to see one link to any coach who has knocked Cam's work ethic since he transferred to Blinn College and then to Auburn. I've seen Coach Chizik say time and time again that Cam did everything he was asked to do at Auburn including constantly being in the weight room or in film study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'd like to see any college coach ever knock their QB's work ethic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 If the argument against Newton is that he didnt play in a pro-style offense then what will happen to all the QBs in college football after they graduate? Where will the NFL get their QBs? Because all of college football programs run the spread offense in some capacity. And if they dont run a spread, then they are a heavy run first team. Its a dumb argument to suggest that great college QBs will have a hard time learning pro offenses. Its meant to polarize big name college prospects like Tebow and Newton. But there is no proof that there is an argument to be made against spread offense QBs. I agree and actually I think what is already happening is that NFL offenses are using more and more of the spread concepts. A lot of what the Pats do is right out of the spread play book. My issue is what type of spread and if a QB is used as a runner who can throw or as a passer who can run - its harder to evaluate QBs who are used as runners as much as passers. That may be unfair as they don't call the plays they are asked to run but if you are trying to project a QB into the NFL its more difficult with a guy who has been a runner as much as a passer and right or wrong thats going to affect how he is drafted. RR- I agree and don't consider coming from a spread a legitimate 'knock' but at the same time we would de remiss not to mention that QBs that come from a pro-style face an easier transition. Martin C- I agree Cam's offense doesn't ask him to make a lot of NFL style progression read-n-throws but he does do make some; even in this game and those types of throws transalte: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d81d4d00b/Playbook-Resurgent-Rams @ 2:00 ...[Q]uick read. He's only reading to one side of the field Sam Bradford set the rookie record for completions with 330+. How's he getting it done? Getting the ball out very quick not a lot of reading the defense but getting the ball out quick ...[W]hat does help their [spread QBs] transition is they are used to getting the ball out quickly. When you talk about half field read and ball out that is somrthing they're used to doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'd like to see any college coach ever knock their QB's work ethic. Agreed, they won't knock it but if they aren't happy with it they just won't say anything rather than praise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 This is my biggest red flag on Newton, other than when a possession was on the line Malzahn had him use a freeze count so that he could signal in the play because he didn't trust Newton to audible.Why would the media be invited to a workout but no one else? Attention. Sad part is, I don't think it's Cam's fault. He's following what his "advisor/Dad" says. Why would you raise a red flag on this? Coaches and scouts will get Newton at the combine, his pro day, and individual workouts...As Newton said himself on NFLN last Friday, "people question his work ethic, and his passion, for football, so he just wants to show people, what he has been working on and the progress he has made since the end of his college season...IMO the more exposure the better especially if he shows well...I mean b/c he is the least experienced QB of the top QB's he has a lot of question marks to answer and he is starting that process.... I find the concern over Newton father laughable...Newton's agent is Bus Cooke, I'm sure if he thought it was a bad idea he wouldnt let him do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Agreed, they won't knock it but if they aren't happy with it they just won't say anything rather than praise it. Les Miles on JaMarcus Russell: “I’m going to tell you right now, I enjoyed having him quarterback my team... the only thing I can’t tell you enough is that he is competitive as there is. If you put a ball down in the yard and say we’re going to play to twelve, dammit, he’s going to play you. He didn’t if it’s basketball, football, or baseball. He has that to him.” Russell? Competitive? I'm pretty sure I can find similar platitudes from Mack Brown on VY's maturity or Pete Carroll on Leinart's work ethic and leadership. They are going to do whatever it is to get their guy drafted high, so the next QB wants to come to their school. Whether or not its true, anyone associated with Auburn is the last source to be unbiased about Newton. All in. Family. I take things I hear from the plains with a heavy grain of salt, just Iike I take things out of the Pacific NW about Locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Again like I said you are holding something against Newton that isn't his fault...The way the plays were called, and the offense he was in is what it is...Evaluate what is there, that's what scouts and coaches will do... The issue for me is thats is hard to really evaluate a guy who has one year of Div 1 football and only 280 pass attempts. Its not his fault, but that does not change the fact that there is very limited film on him. So I'm going to assume that you think he doesn't understand coverages? I dont know. Thats one of the problems of 280 pass attempts in a system which limited how much he was asked to read. Any team thinking of drafting him I am sure will want him to break down some film for them and spend some time at a whiteboard drawing up plays and coverages. Next why do you and it seems like most people assume that b/c he ran a spread option offense that he doesnt watch film, doesn't read defenses, isn't dedicated, question his intelligence? It's almost like you think he just shows up for games and is just running around like he's playing on a sandlot lol.... My question is not what he did here in College but what he will do when he gets to the NFL. I worry how much he loves football and will work to be the best he can be and how much he and his family se football as means to a big fat cheque. Might be unfair but the whole cash for playing demands when he was being recruited and his Dads involvement raise questions he will need to answer. IMO Newton tight mechanics make him scheme diverse, and a ball control WCO offense that utilizes play-action, and QB movement would be his best scheme fit... We just disagree on this which is fine. I see his best fit as a big play QB who fits well in an offense which uses his ability to extend play and big arm to make plays down the field. This question is for everyone not just you MartinC...I hear these terms "read the defense" or "read coverage" etc...What does that mean, and for the people that throw those terms around do you even understand how QB's read coverages or what they look for? People throw these terms around loosely, but have no idea what they are talking about..... I played QB for 4 or 5 years in the UK and coached offense for several years more. Its not the NFL obviously but I understand coverages and a QBs read responsibilities in principle. What a QB will be asked to do will vary to an extent from system to system and how much flexibility he is given to change plays or adjust from coach to coach. As a mimum though a QB will be expected to anticipate and see blizes, locate the safties and then check the corners and linebacker to get a read on man or zone and if man single and double coverage. A simple example might be on say a quick slant. I want to know where the outside linebacker to that side is and if the corner is in press or off coverage - am I looking at zone or man. With most quick slants you will have a back or TE run a route to the flat under the quick slant. If its man and the linebacker come up to challenge that flat route you hit the slant, if the linebacker drops to get underneath the slant you will have the flat man open and you go there. This is avery simple example but its things like that you are looking to for on tape to see how comfortable a QB is in making those reads and going to the correct receiver based on what the defense does within the play called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I find the concern over Newton father laughable...Newton's agent is Bus Cooke, I'm sure if he thought it was a bad idea he wouldnt let him do it... Either Newton's father is a bad influence, or Cam knew what was going regarding his recruitment - can't have it both ways. I am inclinded to think the Right Reverend isn't the best influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Les Miles on JaMarcus Russell From what I've read Cam doesn't even drink any alcohol. Russell = Purple Drink. Whether or not its true, anyone associated with Auburn is the last source to be unbiased about Newton. All in. Family. I take things I hear from the plains with a heavy grain of salt, just Iike I take things out of the Pacific NW about Locker. You obviously haven't read everything that I've posted about Cam. I put his success in the NFL at 60/40 right now due to the spread offense that he's always ran. I've also said I don't expect him to be a Redskin. One of the teams picking earlier in the draft and needing a quarterback will take a chance on him and Shanahan won't trade up for a spread quarterback project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Tremendous upside. I wouldn't vomit if would took him at ten -- he's a much better prospect than someone like Locker -- but it would definitely be a huge risk. I would not be shocked if he goes as high as three to Buffalo. His size and tools are off the charts and he's a better natural passer than people give him credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 From what I've read Cam doesn't even drink any alcohol. Russell = Purple Drink. Non-Sequitur - I am simply stating how college coaches are not the most reliable sources for information on their own players. I never said Newton is like Russell. In fact, I think that is a moronic comparison, that I would never make. You obviously haven't read everything that I've posted about Cam. I put his success in the NFL at 60/40 right now due to the spread offense that he's always ran. I've also said I don't expect him to be a Redskin. One of the teams picking earlier in the draft and needing a quarterback will take a chance on him and Shanahan won't trade up for a spread quarterback project. Then we generally agree about Newton as an NFL prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB Dizzle Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 While Cam Newton does have a bunch of talent and upside, there are few things that I just don't like about him: - Only 1 year of production to scout - If he were to have had 2 seasons with that kind of performance, it would prove that he's not just a 1 year wonder (hello D. Thomas) - Run first system - NFL defenses aren't going to bite on a fake QB draw or wildcat play every time and leave a WR wide open down field - Piss poor attitude - Obviously had issues in the past. However more recent footage proves more: Championship game, his team has just about won the National Championship! But he's there pouting on the bench, not even happy that his team is about to win it, shrugs off teammate after game, showed absolutely no passion in his interview except thanking God... Not sure why, he had an average performance, got out-shined by his freshman RB Michael Dyer, didn't get MVP, wasn't soaking in all the fame & glamour that he seemed to like every other game this year... The list goes on... BUT one thing I know, is I sure as hell don't want no selfish prima dona leading our team. Sorry for all those that are psyched, but to me he looks just like another Vinny Young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Cam's the type of boom or bust player that we may actually need. We have so many holes, short of trading all our picks for 2012 picks isn't going to improve us much. But... if Cam is the real deal, just IMAGINE!!!!!!!!! And if he's not, he's just another Shuler. What's five years? We've waited 20. ---------- Post added February-10th-2011 at 02:44 PM ---------- While Cam Newton does have a bunch of talent and upside, there are few things that I just don't like about him:- Only 1 year of production to scout - If he were to have had 2 seasons with that kind of performance, it would prove that he's not just a 1 year wonder (hello D. Thomas) - Run first system - NFL defenses aren't going to bite on a fake QB draw or wildcat play every time and leave a WR wide open down field - Piss poor attitude - Obviously had issues in the past. However more recent footage proves more: Championship game, his team has just about won the National Championship! But he's there pouting on the bench, not even happy that his team is about to win it, shrugs off teammate after game, showed absolutely no passion in his interview except thanking God... Not sure why, he had an average performance, got out-shined by his freshman RB Michael Dyer, didn't get MVP, wasn't soaking in all the fame & glamour that he seemed to like every other game this year... The list goes on... BUT one thing I know, is I sure as hell don't want no selfish prima dona leading our team. Sorry for all those that are psyched, but to me he looks just like another Vinny Young I don't get how you can say he has a piss poor attitude from watching him "pout" at the title game. Dude's won everywhere he's been. Be a dick, but win me a championship I always say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 One of the talking heads on ESPN just now did a mock draft of the top 10 or so picks and showed Cam Newton dropping to us. Not sure I like (or agree) with that but thought it was interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 One of the talking heads on ESPN just now did a mock draft of the top 10 or so picks and showed Cam Newton dropping to us. Not sure I like (or agree) with that but thought it was interesting. Kiper's gone on record saying that the Newton to Skins deal is simply based on his board vs our need. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 this guy is going to fail so hard in the NFL its not even funny. hopefully a bunch of other idiot teams get psyched about this guy because of his body and arm strength and fight over him and we dont get involved. how many guys like this have to come out of college, have bust written all over them, and get so much draft hype for teams to realize that guys like this dont translate to NFL production? the only thing this kid brings to the table is insane amount of jersey sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 this guy is going to fail so hard in the NFL its not even funny. hopefully a bunch of other idiot teams get psyched about this guy because of his body and arm strength and fight over him and we dont get involved.how many guys like this have to come out of college, have bust written all over them, and get so much draft hype for teams to realize that guys like this dont translate to NFL production? the only thing this kid brings to the table is insane amount of jersey sales. I can only think of two. Young and Tebow. I wouldn't call either a bust. Vince Young wins and Tebow is doing his thing, if he has a chance to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPCreativelab Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Why would you raise a red flag on this? Coaches and scouts will get Newton at the combine, his pro day, and individual workouts...As Newton said himself on NFLN last Friday, "people question his work ethic, and his passion, for football, so he just wants to show people, what he has been working on and the progress he has made since the end of his college season...IMO the more exposure the better especially if he shows well...I mean b/c he is the least experienced QB of the top QB's he has a lot of question marks to answer and he is starting that process....I find the concern over Newton father laughable...Newton's agent is Bus Cooke, I'm sure if he thought it was a bad idea he wouldnt let him do it... he might not go to the combine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 he might not go to the combine... I say there's no chance he goes to the combine given his father and the hype he's trying to create. This media day is proof 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdarugar Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Anybody see this on PFT... Trent Dilfer of Cam Newton workout: “Phenomenal” Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 10, 2011, 2:19 PM EST NFL scouts couldn’t attend Cam Newton’s random Thursday “Media Day” workout. But if they could . . . “That was phenomenal,” ESPN’s Trent Dilfer reports via Bruce Feldman. “If scouts saw this they’d have been slobbering.” With all due respect to my fellow scribes in attendance, Dilfer’s opinion may be the only one that particularly matters from this workout. Dilfer does as much homework as any analyst, and he’s usually a tough critic. We trust him if he said it was an impressive session. Tony Pauline of SI.com wrote earlier this week that “at least” six teams rank Newton as their top overall prospect in the draft. It defies belief that six teams even have a “top-ranked” player at this stage, but the note shows that Newton has some serious support within the scouting community. Not to mention with Dilfer. “His mechanics are so sound,” Dilfer said. “The ball just jumps off his hands. He made 30 big-time throws.” Newton’s workout on Thursday ultimately doesn’t mean that much, but it’s a good sign he’s so confident in his development. It’s a better sign that he impressed Dilfer so much. The next step: Make the actual scouts slobber at the Combine or a real Pro Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Anybody see this on PFT...Trent Dilfer of Cam Newton workout: “Phenomenal” Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 10, 2011, 2:19 PM EST NFL scouts couldn’t attend Cam Newton’s random Thursday “Media Day” workout. But if they could . . . “That was phenomenal,” ESPN’s Trent Dilfer reports via Bruce Feldman. “If scouts saw this they’d have been slobbering.” With all due respect to my fellow scribes in attendance, Dilfer’s opinion may be the only one that particularly matters from this workout. Dilfer does as much homework as any analyst, and he’s usually a tough critic. We trust him if he said it was an impressive session. Tony Pauline of SI.com wrote earlier this week that “at least” six teams rank Newton as their top overall prospect in the draft. It defies belief that six teams even have a “top-ranked” player at this stage, but the note shows that Newton has some serious support within the scouting community. Not to mention with Dilfer. “His mechanics are so sound,” Dilfer said. “The ball just jumps off his hands. He made 30 big-time throws.” Newton’s workout on Thursday ultimately doesn’t mean that much, but it’s a good sign he’s so confident in his development. It’s a better sign that he impressed Dilfer so much. The next step: Make the actual scouts slobber at the Combine or a real Pro Day. And so the hype begins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Think what you want about him, but he won't be there at ten. He's going to look too good on his pro day, at the combine, etc... I think Buffalo takes him at three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I can only think of two. Young and Tebow. I wouldn't call either a bust. Vince Young wins and Tebow is doing his thing, if he has a chance to succeed. russel was the same thing. athletic mobile QB with huge arm that did well in college. i wouldnt touch young or tebow with a 10 foot pole, especially young whos proved hes a complete baby. tebow was a rookie so its still unknown, but that whole style of run first QBs just bothers the hell out of me and i dont want a guy like that on the redskins. i want a pocket passer. i want the next aaron rodgers/phillip rivers type. these spread option run around like idiot QBs can stay away from the redskins as far as im concerned. and i highly doubt kyle or mike, looking at their history with QBs, want a guy like newton to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.