INN: Islamists Massacre Two Coptic Families in Egypt

[twa]

Not encouraging

http://www.aina.org/news/20110223210634.htm

(AINA) -- For the second time in as many days, Egyptian armed force stormed the 5th century old St. Bishoy monastery in Wadi el-Natroun, 110 kilometers from Cairo. Live ammunition was fired, wounding two monks and six Coptic monastery workers. Several sources confirmed the army's use of RPG ammunition. Four people have been arrested including three monks and a Coptic lawyer who was at the monastery investigating yesterday's army attack.

Monk Aksios Ava Bishoy told activist Nader Shoukry of Freecopts the armed forces stormed the main entrance gate to the monastery in the morning using five tanks, armored vehicles and a bulldozer to demolish the fence built by the monastery last month to protect themselves and the monastery from the lawlessness which prevailed in Egypt during the January 25 Uprising.

"When we tried to address them, the army fired live bullets, wounding Father Feltaows in the leg and Father Barnabas in the abdomen," said Monk Ava Bishoy. "Six Coptic workers in the monastery were also injured, some with serious injuries to the chest."

The injured were rushed to the nearby Sadat Hospital, the ones in serious condition were transferred to the Anglo-Egyptian Hospital in Cairo.

Father Hemanot Ava Bishoy said the army fired live ammunition and RPGs continuously for 30 minutes, which hit part of the ancient fence inside the monastery. "The army was shocked to see the monks standing there praying 'Lord have mercy' without running away. This is what really upset them," he said. "As the soldiers were demolishing the gate and the fence they were chanting 'Allahu Akbar' and 'Victory, Victory'."

He also added that the army prevented the monastery's car from taking the injured to hospital.

The army also attacked the Monastery of St. Makarios of Alexandria in Wady el-Rayan, Fayoum, 100 km from Cairo. It stormed the monastery and fired live ammunition on the monks. Father Mina said that one monk was shot and more than ten have injuries caused by being beaten with batons. The army demolished the newly erected fence and one room from the actual monastery and confiscated building materials. The monastery had also built a fence to protect itself after January 25 and after being attacked by armed Arabs and robbers leading to the injury of six monks, including one monk in critical condition who is still hospitalized.

The army had given on February 21 an ultimatum to this monastery that if the fence was not demolished within 48 hours by the monks, the army would remove it themselves (AINA 2-23-2011).

The Egyptian Armed Forces issued a statement on their Facebook page denying that any attack took place on St. Bishoy Monastery in Wady el-Natroun, "Reflecting our belief in the freedom and chastity of places of worship of all Egyptians." The statement went on to say that the army just demolished some fences built on State property and that it has no intention of demolishing the monastery itself (video of army shooting at Monastery).

Father Hedra Ava Bishoy said they are in possession of whole carton of empty bullet shells besides the people who are presently in hospital to prove otherwise.

...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/world/breakingnews/coptic-christian-priest-killed-in-egypt-setting-off-new-protests-by-religious-minority-116719964.html

ASSIUT, Egypt - A Coptic Christian priest has been killed in southern Egypt, triggering street demonstrations by several thousand Christians.

The priest was found dead in his home. A fellow clergyman, Danoub Thabet, says his body had several stab wounds. He says neighbours reported seeing several masked men leaving the apartment and shouting "Allahu akbar," or "God is great," suggesting the killing was motivated by the divide between Egypt's Muslims and its minority Coptic community.

About 3,000 protesters scuffled with Muslim shop owners Tuesday night and smashed the windows of a police car in the city, Assiut.

Egypt's religious tension spiked in January when a suicide bomber killed 21 people outside a Coptic church in the port city of Alexandria. Days of protests followed.

[visionary]

First article: Very odd and deeply disturbing if true.

Second article: Sad and dissapointing, but unfortunately not too surprising.

We already know there are some very bigoted, xenophobic, and violent people in Egypt.

There's also a lot of people who aren't.

The military attacking monks however is incredibly worrying and bizzare.

[grego]

I know not all Muslims are terrorists, but it's apparent that Islam is really good at motivating people to kill. .

lunacy.

jesus not only taught his followers to kill in his name, but i'm pretty sure he wacked a few degenerates who got out of line, too.

[twa]

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/261405/egypt-s-copts-suffer-more-attacks-nina-shea

Copts in Egypt are begging for Egyptian Armed Forces protection today after a Muslim mob of several thousand attacked their church in the village of Soul, about 30 kilometers from Cairo, last night. The Church of St. Mina and St. George was torched, and its clergy are unaccounted for. The fire department and security forces failed to respond to Coptic pleas for help during the arson attack.

According to a report from the Washington-based Coptic American Friendship Association, the mob, chanting “Allahu Akbar,” pulled down the church’s cross and detonated a handful of gas cylinders inside the structure. The ensuing fire destroyed the church and all its contents, including the sacred relics of centuries-old saints. It is reported that a romantic relationship between a Christian man and a Muslim woman, which sharia forbids, and the refusal of the woman’s father to kill her to restore the community’s “honor,” aroused the Muslim ire. An account of this incident is here. (I also received a message from a Coptic friend that this week members of the Muslim Brotherhood, shouting “Allahu Akbar,” stormed a Christian school on Thabit Street in downtown Asyut and attempted to take it over. Egyptian security forces, including an army unit, intervened and routed out the Brotherhood members. The school had been built by Presbyterian missionaries in the early 1900s, and is now directed by Presbyterian Pastor Naji. Christian leaders from this southern area expressed a deepening sense of insecurity as the Muslim Brotherhood emerges from the underground.)

This incident follows separate brutal attacks by armed forces using heavy machine-gun fire against two monasteries, ostensibly for zoning problems, on February 23. Compass Direct, an American-based Christian news agency, reported that one monk and six church workers were shot and wounded when the Egyptian Army attacked the Coptic Orthodox Anba Bishoy Monastery in Wadi Al-Natroun, 110 kilometers north of Cairo, in order to destroy a wall monks had built to defend their property from raiders. On the same day, it reported that, in a similar incident, the army also attacked the Anba Makarious Al Sakandarie Monastery in Al Fayoum, 130 kilometers southwest of Cairo. Under an Egyptian law carried over from Ottoman times, state permission is required to build or repair church property and such permits are rarely issued.

There are growing concerns that Egypt’s 10 million or so Coptic Christians are being targeted under the cloak of political chaos during these uncertain times.

[twa]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/05/07/egypt.clashes/index.html?hpt=T2

At least six people were killed and 120 injured in sectarian clashes outside a church in Cairo on Saturday, officials said.

A group of Muslim Salafists attacked the Saint Mena Coptic Orthodox Church. Gunfire rang out as people sprinted for cover.

"With my own eyes I saw three people killed and dozens injured," said Mina Adel, a Christian resident. "There's no security here. There's a big problem. People attacked us, and we have to protect ourselves."

Egyptian Interior Ministry spokesman Alla Mahmoud said in a statement that six people were killed and 120 injured.

He said the clashes were sparked by reports of a Christian woman who married a Muslim man and was allegedly being held inside the church.

[Destino]

Disappointing and upsetting. Amazing how much the worlds media had to say about the so called "ground zero mosque" (utter nonsense) and when that all boils down to it, it's an argument about building permits. 9% of Egypt's population are being attacked by a violent minority allowed to exist by an accommodating majority.

[DRSmith]

I find it more disappointing people try to lay the blame at the feet of one group in hopes of furthering their own agendas, both sides are engaging in this behaviour as the violence is not one sided.

The violence on both sides is being condemned as niether are following the teachings of the religions they claim to follow.

The difference in religions is being used as an excuse for violence

[jpyaks3]

Disappointing and upsetting. Amazing how much the worlds media had to say about the so called "ground zero mosque" (utter nonsense) and when that all boils down to it, it's an argument about building permits. 9% of Egypt's population are being attacked by a violent minority allowed to exist by an accommodating majority.

There is definitely push back against Salafism here. http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/428140 Military is trying to control the problem but there are also plenty of anti-salafi protests and the people just took back the Mosque of Light from Salafi hardliners. So to say that it there is an accommodating majority isn't really true.

[visionary]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/05/201157222446186609.html

Scores held in Egypt after sectarian clashes

At least 230 people injured in violence between Muslims and Christians that left 12 people dead in Cairo.

Last Modified: 08 May 2011 11:19

Egypt's military rulers have detained 190 people in connection with the clashes between Muslims and Christians in Cairo in which at least 12 people were killed and more than 230 wounded.

The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces ordered "the transfer of all those arrested in connection with (Saturday's) events, and they number 190, to the Supreme Military Court, as a deterrent to all those who think of toying with the potential of this nation."

The council, which has ruled Egypt since a popular uprising toppled president Hosni Mubarak, also said it would "set up a committee to assess the damage from the clashes" and restore property.

In a statement on Sunday, it also called on "all communities in Egypt, the youth of the revolution, the national forces and Islamic and Christian scholars to stand like a wall against any attempt by the forces of evil and darkness to tear the national fabric."

Egypt's cabinet also said on Sunday in an emergency meeting that it will use an "iron hand" to protect national security.

The government has said it will step up security at religious sites and activate laws dealing with terrorism, to give police more power to prevent interfaith clashes. The rules also enable stricter punishments for vandalising houses of worship.

Egypt's prime minister had called Sunday's meeting to discuss the sectarian violence, a day after witnesses said a mob of conservative Muslims marched on a Coptic church in the northwestern neighbourhood of Imbaba

[NavyDave]

This happens a lot in places where a portion of the population can not bring home the Bacon.

[visionary]

http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn

Atmosphere in imbaba very tense. Cnn crew had to flee angry stick wielding, stone throwing crowd. Army firing in air to disperse crowd. 6 hours ago

Small group of Copts protesting in front of US embassy calling for int'l protection, say military doing nothing to protect them. 3 hours ago

Large crowd of Coptic demonstrators in front of TV building in Maspiro. 1 hour ago

Muslim woman with headscarf carrying cross at protest in front of TV building. People chanting "Christians, Muslims, one hand." 1 hour ago

stones being thrown at demo getting very nasty 1 hour ago

Small group of military riot police trying to break it up outside Egyptian TV...not sure if there are enough to restore order. 1 hour ago

Have seen four people already injured by stones. SOme people throwing rocks from rooftops onto protesters. 1 hour ago

Now seeing Muslims and Christians chanting "Muslims, Christians, one hand" again. People on side of road clapping. 27 minutes ago

[Koala]

^^^ Bigger, I cant quite read your post from the swimming pool.

So, anyhow, did they ever figure out if their was any truth to the rumor that a convert girl had been abducted? I understand that things are hectic in Cairo, but this is basic journalism.

[visionary]

http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn

Calmer now in Maspiro in front of TV building. Crowd continues to grow, no more rock throwing. 47 minutes ago

Sound system has arrived at protest outside Maspiro TV building. Vendors are at work. Crowd growing. Peaceful for now. 9 minutes ago

[SackMachine]

^^^ Bigger, I cant quite read your post from the swimming pool.

So, anyhow, did they ever figure out if their was any truth to the rumor that a convert girl had been abducted? I understand that things are hectic in Cairo, but this is basic journalism.

Nope. From what my family in Egypt are telling me, is every time an extremist group wants to attack Christians, they will create a story/rumor and then use that to recruit more people for their attack. The shooters that attacked a Church a few years ago also stated a similar story as the reason behind why they attacked.

Most recently the reason behind the attacks on Christians was Camilla. She is the wife of a Priest in Egypt and the extremist group claimed that she had converted to Islam and was now being held hostage in a Church. She made a video where she stood next to her husband the Priest and her kids stating that she had been kidnapped by the extremists and forced to convert to Islam or they would go after her family.

[DRSmith]

How can one be forced to convert?

[twa]

Read a history book

[SackMachine]

How can one be forced to convert?

In order for one to become Muslim, all they have to do is state a sentence.

Her story is that she was forced to state that sentence or else her kidnappers would kill her family.

[DRSmith]

Read a history book

If you agree to convert to save you life you are still agreeing, no one can force a person to convert to another religion.

And in Christianity disowning your faith is pretty bad

---------- Post added May-8th-2011 at 02:42 PM ----------

In order for one to become Muslim, all they have to do is state a sentence.

Her story is that she was forced to state that sentence or else her kidnappers would kill her family.

So she was not forced she chose to say it

[SackMachine]

Yes in Christianity disowning your faith is bad but it is also a forgiving faith that will take you back. In this case, what do you think a mother would do when her kids are threatened? Say a sentence even though she didn't believe in what she was saying OR tell her kidnappers to go ahead and kill her kids.

She may never have "converted" in her heart, but to those who heard her say that sentence, she converted.

[DRSmith]

Yes in Christianity disowning your faith is bad but it is also a forgiving faith that will take you back. In this case, what do you think a mother would do when her kids are threatened? Say a sentence even though she didn't believe in what she was saying OR tell her kidnappers to go ahead and kill her kids.

She may never have "converted" in her heart, but to those who heard her say that sentence, she converted.

The bible is full of examples of people who either lost thier life for their faith or in the case of Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son in faith

Matthew 10:but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. 34*Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35*For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36*Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37*He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me

[Destino]

There is definitely push back against Salafism here. http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/428140 Military is trying to control the problem but there are also plenty of anti-salafi protests and the people just took back the Mosque of Light from Salafi hardliners. So to say that it there is an accommodating majority isn't really true.

So have the government publicly state that their coptic population is equal in all ways and free to practice their religion without restrictions *and* announce that these hardliners are criminals that will now be placed under investigation for their role in recent attacks. Raid their compounds and arrest any and all leaders found to have been involved in any of these attacks. Also investigate the claims the the Egyptian military is complicit in these attacks as has been the claim of Coptic's for quite some time now.

Anything short of that is accommodating. In the US we would not tolerate the KKK launching attacks on mosques only to have a few people actually involved in the attacks arrested... meanwhile their leadership goes untouched and reports of police officers conspiring with them gets ignored or brushed off without a serious investigation. We've been through that here and we know it today as "institutionalized racism". It's when the government did the bare minimum in order to pretend it was doing something.

---------- Post added May-8th-2011 at 06:49 PM ----------

If you agree to convert to save you life you are still agreeing, no one can force a person to convert to another religion.

And in Christianity disowning your faith is pretty bad

---------- Post added May-8th-2011 at 02:42 PM ----------

So she was not forced she chose to say it

Is this post a joke? Please tell me it's a joke.

[DRSmith]

If you think faith should only be a matter of convience then I can how you would want to see it that way

[twa]

If you think faith should only be a matter of convience then I can how you would want to see it that way

So if the story is true you judge her apostate and the cause of the problem?....What would Peter say

[DRSmith]

Not saying this woman could not end up like Peter and be really sorry for what she had done but what if she said to them she wanted to convert but her husband would not allow her and was abusive.

[Destino]

If you think faith should only be a matter of convience then I can how you would want to see it that way

If someone kidnaps you and threatens your family in order to get you to do X then you are being forced to do X. It is that simple.