Cliff Lee did the same thing as Lebron James! (Where's the outratge)

[Mr. Sinister]

How can you say a two time mvp is a follower and not a leader? haha.

Since when the hell does leadership have anything to do with how many points you score? Clearly you know nothing about leadership.

Leaders don't refuse to shake the hand of the opposition in defeat. Leaders don't hotdog, showboat, and act like complete dicks on the court before the tipoff. Leaders don't undermine the head coach whenever he does something that is not to that particular players liking. Leaders don't quit on their teams.

[Shabby]

Since when the hell does leadership have anything to do with how many points you score? Clearly you know nothing about leadership.

Leaders don't refuse to shake the hand of the opposition in defeat. Leaders don't hotdog, showboat, and act like complete dicks on the court before the tipoff. Leaders don't undermine the head coach whenever he does something that is not to that particular players liking. Leaders don't quit on their teams.

What do points have to do with MVP? Did you not know that Kevin Durant lead the league in points? But he wasnt the MVP. LeBron was the MVP because of his play. I would like to ask you, how did lebron quit on his team? Im assuming your referring to game 5. Please explain.

Hes a leader because of the way he plays.

Dwight howard showboats before games as well. So your saying he's not a leader either? hahahaha. come on now.

[Mr. Sinister]

What do points have to do with MVP?

Nice deflection, but that's not what I asked you

Did you not know that Kevin Durant lead the league in points?

That has nothing to do with his ability to be a leader. Even at this point in his young career, I would say that Durant clearly displays better leadership qualities than Lebron does.

But he wasnt the MVP. LeBron was the MVP because of his play. I would like to ask you, how did lebron quit on his team? Im assuming your referring to game 5. Please explain.

Did you watch the game? Did you not see his body language? His mannerisms? The fact that he, along with his team, showed no fight, and got their asses handed to them? Thi sshouldn't happen to the best team in the league, with the best player, who also happens to be a great leader, right?

Game 6 was no different. He quit, period.

[Shabby]

It wasnt just a coincidence when the season tickets for the Heat were sold out after LeBron signed.

Why would i bother answering a question after a stupid statement like that? You said implied MVP had to do with points. So i pointed out KD.

BTW, i like how you completely ignored the dwight howard reference. LOL

LeBron was the only one who was actually playing. How can you say a guys who gets 27 points, 19 rebounds and 10 assists a quitter? If he had decent people around him it would have been different. Kobe went 6-24 in game 7, and WON. Thats the difference between the two.

Obviously your hatred towards him wont let you guys dont understand. So ill just end my argument here. Good talk!

---------- Post added December-18th-2010 at 12:23 PM ----------

It wasnt just a coincidence when the season tickets for the Heat were sold out after LeBron signed.

Why would i bother answering a question after a stupid statement like that? You said implied MVP had to do with points. So i pointed out KD.

BTW, i like how you completely ignored the dwight howard reference. LOL

LeBron was the only one who was actually playing. How can you say a guys who gets 27 points, 19 rebounds and 10 assists a quitter? If he had decent people around him it would have been different. Kobe went 6-24 in game 7, and WON. Thats the difference between the two. LeBron has a bad game and hes called a quitter. Please.

Obviously your hatred towards him wont let you guys dont understand. So ill just end my argument here. Good talk!

[Mr. Sinister]

Obviously your hatred towards him wont let you guys dont understand. So ill just end my argument here. Good talk!

Are you blind? Look at my sig, you are talking to a Heat fan. I don't hate Lebron, I never have. I just don't like him very much, but I will root my ass off for him to succeed, nevertheless.

It wasnt just a coincidence when the season tickets for the Heat were sold out after LeBron signed.

Lebron attracts attention, he is a great player, so what's your point?

[Shabby]

Are you blind? Look at my sig, you are talking to a Heat fan. I don't hate Lebron, I never have. I just don't like him very much, but I will root my ass off for him to succeed, nevertheless.

Wait so, you like rooting for a 'quitter'?

[Mr. Sinister]

Wait so, you like rooting for a 'quitter'?

Wait, so is that all you have left to present you're argument? Lebron's " Decision" pretty much validated everyones opinion of him, that he doesn't feel that he can be " The Man" anymore, so he instead, was forced to join a triumvirate of superstars, where he will instead be viewed as a follower, "sidekick," if you will, and play alongside Dwyane Wade, who is the leader of this team, and is the reason why this team is playing better now. When times were going tough earlier, all Lebron wanted to do, was complain about how many minutes he was playing, that's your example of a non-leader right there. You want real leadership? See Dwyane Wade, 2006 NBA Finals.

[SkinFanZim]

People are going to see racism where they choose to. Most times, cries of racism just support the whiners own preconcieved ideas of how things are.

[Sticksboi05]

Shabby- Dwight Howard isn't a leader. If he was, they might have a ring by now. He's starting to show signs, like calling out his players on their lack of D but that's it.

[Shabby]

Wait, so is that all you have left to present you're argument? Lebron's " Decision" pretty much validated everyones opinion of him, that he doesn't feel that he can be " The Man" anymore, so he instead, was forced to join a triumvirate of superstars, where he will instead be viewed as a follower, "sidekick," if you will, and play alongside Dwyane Wade, who is the leader of this team, and is the reason why this team is playing better now. When times were going tough earlier, all Lebron wanted to do, was complain about how many minutes he was playing, that's your example of a non-leader right there. You want real leadership? See Dwyane Wade, 2006 NBA Finals.

So why'd you avoid the question?

You want to see leadership? 2007 Eastern Conference finals. We can do this all day if you want. I never said Wade wasnt a leader... Like i said many times before, for now, it IS Wades team. FOR NOW....

[Mr. Sinister]

You want to see leadership? 2007 Eastern Conference finals.

And then he promptly led his team into a four game sweep at the hands of the Spurs.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

I think Parsec might be worse than boobiemiles when it comes to racial trolling...maybe they are the same person? :whoknows:

[Shabby]

And then he promptly led his team into a four game sweep at the hands of the Spurs.

He lost to a really good team.. Whats your point? So kobe is not a leader because he lost to the celtics in 2008? And because he lost to the Pistons? Or Wade is not a leader because he lost to the celtics in the first round? You cant use your logic for one thing and not the other.

[Sticksboi05]

So why'd you avoid the question?

You want to see leadership? 2007 Eastern Conference finals. We can do this all day if you want. I never said Wade wasnt a leader... Like i said many times before, for now, it IS Wades team. FOR NOW....

It will always be Wade's team and Wade's city and Wade-County. He is that franchise and brought the city its first NBA title.

[jnhay]

This is why race relations are deteriorating in America. When I was at the barbershop today (Black Barbershop) this was the subject of debate. The double standard placed on White and Black athletes during the freeagnecy period. And how no-one eviscerates the notable White free agents. So I guess it's ok for MLB players to defect but not NBA?

Also, I doubt it was the ESPN one hour special, no one forced anyone to watch that. Plus it raised millions of dollars for needy children, I know that matters not, but still, I believe the benificiaries are more important then the emotional response of those people who were offended.

I haven't heard a word from Cliff Lee about leaving Texas. He hasn't yet said that he's "taking his talents to Philly." There was no organized plot he organized with other players to get on the same team (though I personally saw nothing wrong with what Lebron did there). He didn't embarrass his Rangers fans on national television. He was only in Texas for a year! There have been tons of black players that weren't criticized like Lebron for leaving their team btw.

[Sticksboi05]

He lost to a really good team.. Whats your point? So kobe is not a leader because he lost to the celtics in 2008? And because he lost to the Pistons? Or Wade is not a leader because he lost to the celtics in the first round? You cant use your logic for one thing and not the other.

Wade's team did not win 60 games that year and Kobe has 5 titles...

[Mr. Sinister]

He lost to a really good team.. Whats your point? So kobe is not a leader because he lost to the celtics in 2008? And because he lost to the Pistons? Or Wade is not a leader because he lost to the celtics in the first round? You cant use your logic for one thing and not the other.

Wait Shabby, weren't you were the one who said that Lebron was a leader because he is a two time MVP? I am simply lowering my sports iq down to your level, and around and around we go. '

Funny how this logic thing works.

[Shabby]

It will always be Wade's team and Wade's city and Wade-County. He is that franchise and brought the city its first NBA title.

Just like me, your entitled to your own opinion. But i hear more LeBron James and the miami heat take on __________ (enter team here), rather than Wade and the Miami heat now.

[Mr. Sinister]

Just like me, your entitled to your own opinion. But i hear more LeBron James and the miami heat take on __________ (enter team here), rather than Wade and the Miami heat now.

Lebron James will never be bigger than D Wade in Miami. It will never happen.

[Sticksboi05]

Just like me, your entitled to your own opinion. But i hear more LeBron James and the miami heat take on __________ (enter team here), rather than Wade and the Miami heat now.

Yeah but their record when he scores alot isn't great. When Wade scores alot it's great.

[Shabby]

Yeah but their record when he scores alot isn't great. When Wade scores alot it's great.

When Wade scores a lot, LeBron James does equally as, if not better, then wade. Like last night.

Lets take a look at some key losses.

Wades production-

L @ Boston - 13 points, 4-16 FG

L vs. Boston - 8 points 2-12

L vs. Utah - 39 points 12-23

L vs Indiana - 3 points 1-13

L vs Orlando - 18 points 6-21

LeBron-

L @ Boston- 31 points 10-21

L vs Boston - 35 points 9-21

L vs Utah - 20 points, 5-18

L vs Indiana- 25 pints 6-14

L vs Orlando- 25 points 9-18

So your putting all these losses on LeBron? Wade has done a lot scoring, as has LeBron, but Lebron is the floor general that gets everyone going.

---------- Post added December-18th-2010 at 01:08 PM ----------

Wait Shabby, weren't you were the one who said that Lebron was a leader because he is a two time MVP? I am simply lowering my sports iq down to your level, and around and around we go. '

Funny how this logic thing works.

This made absolutely NO sense. IOfcourse, you would try to take jabs, the true sign of someone who has no argument, just tries to put the other person down. Thanks!

[No Excuses]

There are fan boys and then there is Shabby. This is one hell of a pointless circular debate going on.

[Mr. Sinister]

When Wade scores a lot, LeBron James does equally as, if not better, then wade. Like last night.

Lets take a look at some key losses.

Wades production-

L @ Boston - 13 points, 4-16 FG

L vs. Boston - 8 points 2-12

L vs. Utah - 39 points 12-23

L vs Indiana - 3 points 1-13

L vs Orlando - 18 points 6-21

LeBron-

L @ Boston- 31 points 10-21

L vs Boston - 35 points 9-21

L vs Utah - 20 points, 5-18

L vs Indiana- 25 pints 6-14

L vs Orlando- 25 points 9-18

So your putting all these losses on LeBron? Wade has done a lot scoring, as has LeBron, but Lebron is the floor general that gets everyone going.

You do realize that you are essentially making my argument for me right?

When Wade doesn't play well, this team is not the same. His FG percentage throughout all of those games was horrendous.

[Shabby]

There are fan boys and then there is Shabby. This is one hell of a pointless circular debate going on.

Im just trying to figure out why people think LeBron is trash. I understand he might not have the best personality, but how does the diminish him as a player? Thats all.

---------- Post added December-18th-2010 at 01:14 PM ----------

You do realize that you are essentially making my argument for me right?

When Wade doesn't play well, this team is not the same. His FG percebtage throughout all of those games was horrendous.

The difference is when wade does a lot of scoring and the team wins, when you look at LeBrons stats in the game, they arent ****ty. Wait till lebron has a 3 point game or an 8 point game with that type of shooting lmao. The point of my post went completely over your head.

Edit: I doubt you'll see those type of numbers from lebron.

[No Excuses]

Im just trying to figure out why people think LeBron is trash. I understand he might not have the best personality, but how does the diminish him as a player? Thats all..

I don't see anyone undermining LeBron the athlete and basketball player. But anyone who is not a blind fanboy can see that the guy is not a leader, has never been a leader and is a complete douche. He also gave up his status as a #1 player by joining another elite superstars team despite the fact that he might be more talented.