What the Hell is the Logic Behind Most of DC's No Turn on Red Signs?

[Hubbs]

I get them when they're around, say, schools. Someone might not be paying attention and turn right into a little kid. And I get them around turns that make it impossible to see where you're going. Same basic idea.

But DC has put NTOR signs all over the damn place, and I can't figure out why. They're at perfectly normal intersections, even though the next intersection will often be exactly the same and have no sign. What's the reasoning? That at the latter intersection, drivers are perfectly capable of navigating around pedestrians, but at the former they're not? That at the former, they're more likely to close their eyes before making a turn? That pedestrians need more of an ability to cross the street there, but not a single block away?

These things cause so much traffic in the city that I'm surprised people aren't holding Rallies to Restore Sanity to Traffic Laws, or sarcastic Marches to Keep Fear of Arbitrary Turns Alive. During rush hour, most of the walk signs will tell pedestrians to cross when the light is green, and there are so many that it's impossible to turn as long as the light remains green. But when the light turns red, you're not supposed to turn. I guess they expect everyone who wants to turn right to do so in the three seconds that the light is yellow, and everyone stuck behind the lucky few - which is usually an entire lane of cars, because the other lanes are too full to move into - to wait for another glorious three seconds of movement.

Even worse are the signs that say you can only turn on red at certain times. Most say you can't turn during the day, which means they might as well say, "Drivers must create enormous backups during rush hour for no reason." But the truly inexplicable signs are the ones that restrict turns between 9 PM and 5 AM, at perfectly normal intersections, on well-lit streets. What the **** for? So I won't make a mistake and drive into thin air? What part of the process could the city possibly be afraid of me being so incapable of handling on my own? And why are they only afraid at that intersection, at those hours, and not at the very next intersection which requires an identical turn?

(As you can see, I've been thinking about this for a while.)

[The Sir]

Didn't read your post, but I'm pretty sure they're in areas where people use the crosswalks a lot.

[Ellis]

I think it's to prevent gridlock. Each road slowly feeds into each other due to the no turn on red rule.

[Hubbs]

I think it's to prevent gridlock. Each road slowly feeds into each other due to the no turn on red rule.

"Prevent" gridlock?

[Hubbs]

Didn't read your post,

Well, that's always a good way to start off a reply to that post.

but I'm pretty sure they're in areas where people use the crosswalks a lot.

Yeah, I'm saying that's exactly the problem.

[TimmySmith]

You are pretty young. For some of us RTOR was not around when we first started driving and was adopted one jurisdiction at a time. DC Mayor at the time, Marion Barry, was staunchly opposed to the idea. Nonetheless it passed the council. It could not be put into effect until they got the signs up, which took months while signs were placed at virtually every intersection in the city. So you see, in the end, the Mayor got his wish, as he usually did, and the citizens of DC got nothing except millions of dollars worth signs that they paid for. That's how I remember it.

[elkabong82]

I've gotten ticketed for being parked on the street during "rush hour" at 4 PM, though there were no signs indicating I couldn't park there, others were parked there too, and there was no traffic around. D.C. is a chaotic mess to drive thru, and it's spilled over to NoVA and MD as well. So glad I don't have to drive in that area anymore. If it wasn't for the cameras I'd say just run it if you're in front. The no turn on reds are likely an attempt at traffic control, but they don't work, they suck.

What would help is for city's to create traffic monitoring divisions which monitor the flow of traffic and control lights accordingly. It can even be automated. Right now it's timed based off of pressure pads in the ground that cars trigger. That's 20th century technology, we need computer monitors, traffic algorithms, some higher-tech system to improve traffic flow.

[Koala]

Because women are allowed to drive in this country.

[Hubbs]

You are pretty young. For some of us RTOR was not around when we first started driving and was adopted one jurisdiction at a time. DC Mayor at the time, Marion Barry, was staunchly opposed to the idea. Nonetheless it passed the council. It could not be put into effect until they got the signs up, which took months while signs were placed at virtually every intersection in the city. So you see, in the end, the Mayor got his wish, as he usually did, and the citizens of DC got nothing except millions of dollars worth signs that they paid for. That's how I remember it.

Great. Thanks, Marion. :doh:

[RansomthePasserby]

You are pretty young. For some of us RTOR was not around when we first started driving and was adopted one jurisdiction at a time. DC Mayor at the time, Marion Barry, was staunchly opposed to the idea. Nonetheless it passed the council. It could not be put into effect until they got the signs up, which took months while signs were placed at virtually every intersection in the city. So you see, in the end, the Mayor got his wish, as he usually did, and the citizens of DC got nothing except millions of dollars worth signs that they paid for. That's how I remember it.

Politicians should stop trying to be transportation engineers. It's the whole reason we have all the traffic problems in Northern VA.

[chipwhich]

Politicians should stop trying to be transportation engineers. It's the whole reason we have all the traffic problems in Northern VA.

Uh no, you have traffic problems because you have too much population traveling too few roads.

[RansomthePasserby]

Uh no, you have traffic problems because you have too much population traveling too few roads.

You know, I was talking with some transportation/land development engineers at a Civil Engineering alumni/student meeting at Virginia Tech (I'm a CE student specializing in transportation). We were talking about the traffic problems in Northern VA and they were telling me how the engineers had forseen the growth in pop and planned out a fairly extensive highway and road expansion in the NoVA/DC/Maryland area. However, the politicians cut the funding to that plan, saying they DIDN'T want the area to get overpopulated. I guess their logic was, if there aren't enough roads, people wouldn't come here to live. Doesn't make very much sense.

[Hubbs]

You know, I was talking with some transportation/land development engineers at a Civil Engineering alumni/student meeting at Virginia Tech (I'm a CE student specializing in transportation). We were talking about the traffic problems in Northern VA and they were telling me how the engineers had forseen the growth in pop and planned out a fairly extensive highway and road expansion in the NoVA/DC/Maryland area. However, the politicians cut the funding to that plan, saying they DIDN'T want the area to get overpopulated. I guess their logic was, if there aren't enough roads, people wouldn't come here to live. Doesn't make very much sense.

:doh:

"If we don't build it, they won't come. And by 'it' we mean something people hardly ever think about when they move."

[No_Pressure]

;ols: :duh:

"If we don't build it, they won't come. And by 'it' we mean something people hardly ever think about when they move."

Lets see, I want to move to a new job with a 100% higher salary in McLean...the school system is good, the area is beautiful in places, the housing isn't cheap but it's nice and the neighborhoods are good...but how capable is the local highway system of handling a large volume of traffic? I won't move there if I have to drive an extra hour or two in order to make double the money!

[RansomthePasserby]

;ols: :duh:

"If we don't build it, they won't come. And by 'it' we mean something people hardly ever think about when they move."

Yeah, and ironically, the government kept gorwing, which created more jobs, which attracted more people to the area and created more traffic. All the while, they cut infrastructure funding. Talk about MAXIMIZING your damages.

Now we're trying to play catch-up.

[No Excuses]

Driving in DC is just a pain in the ass. I tried driving to Foggy Bottom, but getting from my apartment to Foggy Bottom took me half n hour. People panic so bad when they enter DC and drive like they are fighting for their life or something. The metro takes me five minutes to get to class. **** driving in DC..

[Hubbs]

Yeah, and ironically, the government kept gorwing, which created more jobs, which attracted more people to the area and created more traffic. All the while, they cut infrastructure funding. Talk about MAXIMIZING your damages.

Now we're trying to play catch-up.

The Metro plan offered by a website called Greater Greater Washington would be awesome. So would rescinding these stupid signs.

[HighOnHendrix]

You know, I was talking with some transportation/land development engineers at a Civil Engineering alumni/student meeting at Virginia Tech (I'm a CE student specializing in transportation). We were talking about the traffic problems in Northern VA and they were telling me how the engineers had forseen the growth in pop and planned out a fairly extensive highway and road expansion in the NoVA/DC/Maryland area. However, the politicians cut the funding to that plan, saying they DIDN'T want the area to get overpopulated. I guess their logic was, if there aren't enough roads, people wouldn't come here to live. Doesn't make very much sense.

Actually, I don't think they cut the funding, they just diverted it. Building parks and bike paths "looks better" than "contributing to urban sprawl" by building more roads. I blame it all on hippies, myself.

[RansomthePasserby]

Actually, I don't think they cut the funding, they just diverted it. Building parks and bike paths "looks better" than "contributing to urban sprawl" by building more roads. I blame it all on hippies, myself.

Isn't that how it always works though? Money doesn't stop flowing, it just flows somewhere else.

[KDawg]

Because women are allowed to drive in this country.

It makes me a bad person, but I laughed.