The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

Haven't really been paying much attention to college prospects, but Isaiah Austin put up 21 pts & 22 rebs tonight.

Didn't see the game. One thing that jumps out at me is he scored 21 points on 20 shots. Not very good for a 7 footer.

12 offensive boards though. ****ing ridiculous.

Austin is interesting, When he gets locked in defensively he can really close down the paint. Also, gotta love the rec specs. He's weak as hell though.

[SiCkSoULjA]

Watching Miami vs Brooklyn and wow the players these two teams have the sets they run, the way they move the ball around its just not fair compared too us. Then besides the talent the effort theses guys fight for every ball, dive for loose balls and battle all around. Big Evans, Lebron, Wallace and Haslem man these guys go too work. You don't see that watching the Wizards game I saw Vesley battle for a rebound relentlessly one time thats pretty much it for the whole team for a entire game.

Edited January 31, 2013 by SiCkSoULjA

[StillUnknown]

Watching Miami vs Brooklyn and wow the players these two teams have the sets they run, the way they move the ball around its just not fair compared too us. Then besides the talent the effort theses guys fight for every ball, dive for loose balls and battle all around. Big Evans, Lebron, Wallace and Haslem man these guys go too work. You don't see that watching the Wizards game I saw Vesley battle for a rebound relentlessly one time thats pretty much it for the whole team for a entire game.

Watching other teams is a stark reminder of just how basic our half court offense operates. We are talent deficient, but Wittman having no concept of X's & O's is a huge problem.

[Destino]

Watching other teams is a stark reminder of just how basic our half court offense operates. We are talent deficient, but Wittman having no concept of X's & O's is a huge problem.

Wittman is playing checkers, it's embarrassingly obvious at times, and Wall is not good in a half court (playoff) offense. When the offense slows down the turnovers and fg% get ugly and you see how vanilla the plays are. This team is better, in terms of talent, than their record and with a good head coach that fits the personnel they would be much better but they still lack a primary perimeter player.

---------- Post added January-30th-2013 at 10:45 PM ----------

And Wall loses the PG battle once again.

Sadly that isn't exactly rare is it? He's not a max player. I know that isn't popular but its plain as day. Outside of Washington fans he's not in a the conversation of best PG's in the NBA.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Destino

[Skin'emAlive]

When Healthy the rotation needs to be

Wall-Beal-Webster-Nene-Okafor

Than Price-Crawford-Ariza-Booker-Seraphin

With Seraphin splitting time between both rotations

Seraphin should be getting 26 min a night

That is the current rotation. And it sucks. Here is how that offense works in a nutshell.

A: Price gets it... shoots a 3.

B: Seraphin gets it... shoots

C: Ariza runs to the corner 3, and never moves again

D: Book crashes the boards by himself (no seraphin)

E: Crawford tries to make plays, but nobody moves at all. They are all in their spots waiting. Until Crawford gets double teamed and loses the ball. Even then, when he is doubled, those 4 do not move to provide a passing lane.

I feel bad for Crawford on that unit. He cant work with them.

[Going Commando]

Watching Miami vs Brooklyn and wow the players these two teams have the sets they run, the way they move the ball around its just not fair compared too us. Then besides the talent the effort theses guys fight for every ball, dive for loose balls and battle all around. Big Evans, Lebron, Wallace and Haslem man these guys go too work. You don't see that watching the Wizards game I saw Vesley battle for a rebound relentlessly one time thats pretty much it for the whole team for a entire game.

Ves typically plays hard but he sees the floor so infrequently it's hard to say anything about him. Wall plays hard, he hit the deck a couple times tonight and when he drives he goes hard to the rim. Oak and Martell usually hustle but tonight they didn't. Oak got his numbers but was pretty stagnant on offense and Martell just doesn't move in the half court. At all. The team was sleep walking. I don't know what's wrong with them compared to last week but there is something.

And yeah, Wittman's offense sucks. He's a second tier coach. His Xs and Os will always be second tier and the one thing he was good for was motivating the team to play hard even when we suck. Well two games in a row, that's not happened. If he can't do that any more, then he's not bringing anything to the table.

---------- Post added January-31st-2013 at 12:04 AM ----------

Wittman is playing checkers, it's embarrassingly obvious at times, and Wall is not good in a half court (playoff) offense. When the offense slows down the turnovers and fg% get ugly and you see how vanilla the plays are. This team is better, in terms of talent, than their record and with a good head coach that fits the personnel they would be much better but they still lack a primary perimeter player.

We're close to reverting back to our former quality without Beal. It makes such a difference having a single wing player that is a reliable shooter, that moves the ball, and that can move off the ball. You don't notice it while it's working at all because things just seem to go according to plan and the floor is spaced. But when the guy isn't there, the offense goes totally stagnant.

This team needs an upgrade at the 3. If you look at most of the contenders, they've got a star forward. Having a playmaker there is such an advantage. I'd say as big an advantage as having one at PG because the really good forwards all guard multiple positions. Swiss army knife players somewhat.

Martell plays hard and has been nice to have this year but let's be real about his ceiling. He's a spot up shooter that runs the floor and is not a source of mismatches or offense on his own. He's a cheap journeyman three that is probably going to be worse than the other team's guy most nights.

And no, I never thought Rudy Gay was what we needed at the three. I think he takes away more than he brings to the table.

I'm also not sure Shabazz is that guy TBH. I'm uncomfortable with the way he stops the ball. And the way he doesn't really make anyone else better or can struggle to make an impact when he's not shooting a lot of shots. I basically want someone who is a taller Beal. Only takes good shots and doesn't really make bad plays, moves without the ball yet never demands a ton of shots, passes, stays reliable and active even if he doesn't start getting opportunities until late, makes a big impact on the glass and on defense, etc.

That would be nice.

It'd be great if you could take Shabazz's skills and his hustle and instincts and give them to McLemore. Or take McLemore's athleticism and unselfishness and passing gene and give it to Shabazz.

Lacking that, I guess I would be fine just taking a lower ranked true SF like Otto Porter. He's a future starter IMO. Solidify the other wing spot and then you can probably get more consistent quality from the offense.

But of course, you take Noel if he's there. If we did that, I'd start moving stuff around, trading off all these tweener players we've got to get a true SF like Porter too. Consolidate.

And hire a better coach. One that can actually develop young players who aren't as talented and polished as Bradley Beal.

Anyone else get the feeling Ted is going cheapo with Wittman in part because he figured we weren't going to be actually contending for a while?

Sadly that isn't exactly rare is it? He's not a max player. I know that isn't popular but its plain as day. Outside of Washington fans he's not in a the conversation of best PG's in the NBA.

Jrue Holliday is better than Wall right now. But that doesn't mean Wall won't deserve a big contract when it comes time to negotiate. I'm not too worried about his deal. We'll keep him and probably pay him what he's worth. Team wins aren't going to be inflating his contract and Ted isn't the type to spend any more than he has to.

[Going Commando]

Yeah I think you put a high quality shooter and off ball specialist at the 3 with John Wall at PG. If having one (Beal) makes such a big difference in the level of play of the unit, two would be better.

Here's a sincere question: Are Nene and Okafor good fits with Wall?

I think the two of them have demonstrated they are a really good fit with each other. But what are the pros and cons they bring to the table with Wall?

[SiCkSoULjA]

Yeah I think you put a high quality shooter and off ball specialist at the 3 with John Wall at PG. If having one (Beal) makes such a big difference in the level of play of the unit, two would be better.

Here's a sincere question: Are Nene and Okafor good fits with Wall?

I think the two of them have demonstrated they are a really good fit with each other. But what are the pros and cons they bring to the table with Wall?

The guy that was a good fit for John Wall was no other than JaVale McGee but you guys ran him out of town. Nene is good but he is way overpaid, when he gets the ball he stops and do 10 pump fakes before he decides if he's going too make a move or not.

[StillUnknown]

The guy that was a good fit for John Wall was no other than JaVale McGee but you guys ran him out of town. Nene is good but he is way overpaid, when he gets the ball he stops and do 10 pump fakes before he decides if he's going too make a move or not.

McGee would be a perfect fit if this were a Streetball league where you could run 100% of the time.

You are not giving Nene enough credit. Still not sure if I like the move from a long term perspective, but his impact on the court is undeniable. He is our best half-court player. Once we get bogged down in the half-court, its usually Nene who's creating the scoring opportunities. He has reliable midrange jumpshot, he can get in the lane with a variety of moves that McGee will never have. He's not a blackhole, he's quite a good passer from the post.

Injuries have destroyed his lift, one of the reasons I didn't necessarily like the move, and lately those injuries are leading to more turnovers, but even a less than 100% is more valuable to this team than McGee. You have to consider that under the current front office/management situation, we are incapable of developing anyone, let alone a big man with extremely raw skills. You have to look at what McGee could reasonably ascend to under this regime. We would be looking at the same goofball who tries hard, but just doesn't "get it".

[RonArtest15]

Javale McGee plays 18mpg and doesn't start over Kosta Koufos. On top of it all, he's useless unless Andre Miller is on the floor with him. I've wavered back and forth on the Nene/Javale swap, but my FINAL decision is that's a move you make 10x outta 10. Javale (as cliched as this sounds), is what he is.

[Going Commando]

Yeah I don't think JaVale was a good fit. He pretty much proved it here. Even if we don't make the deal, we had to let him walk for nothing.

Nene used to be able to run the floor well, but his injuries are really limiting his effectiveness in transition. He's becoming almost a pure half court player. He used to really run the floor well in Denver.

I agree with Still, Nene is our best half court player. His ability to facilitate offense from the post is underrated. He's got a good little connection with Okafor building and he creates those nice dumpoffs for Beal and Webster that lead to the dunks. That's a good play. He gets to the line at a high rate (or used to before he lost his ability to jump). He can hit mid range jumpers and get his own points with his back to the basket. He can shoot for high percentages without needing a lot of shots to get going.

Offensively, I think Nene is fine. My question is more about the defense and rebounding. His comfort level facing up could also be questioned I guess. Nene seems to only shoot that mid range shot as a last resort even though he's so good at it. I wouldn't mind seeing him just catch and shoot immediately and becoming a serious pick and fade threat. Kind of like how Seraphin shoots only Nene will actually do the work to set the good pick, get open and get to a good spot.

And I guess Nene is never going to be a top notch pick and roll scorer at his age.

Eventually he's going to be a pure 5 IMO. Once he becomes totally grounded and slow. By that point, it would be very nice to have a 4 that's an athlete and that can rebound and also stretch the floor, kind of like a TRob or Blake Griffin. Got to get a rebounder so you can start the break up and just run with Wall. Don't ask me where you get a player like that.

So yeah, it'd be nice to have Griffin at PF and LeBron or Durant at SF to pair with Wall. Who would have thought?

[earl]

i think Nene and Okafor is a solid front court but the problem is that Wall can't create his own shot in the half court. Wall needs to play w/ a dominant scorer. a big man that is deliberate in his moves to the basket. in close games where we are trading buckets downt the stretch, giving the ball to Nene in the high post and essentially running the offense through him usually results in a turnover. If we had a dominant scorer on the wing to completment wall and nene that can create his own shot then i think our front court can work. But until Wall finds a way to be a threat in the half court we just can't constantly win with this team. Wall doesn't have to be dominant be the need to develop some kind of consitant way to score in the half court to keep the D honest, ( pick and pop, shots off picks or even a dependable catch and shoot to play in and and game w/ a big.)

Interesting thoughts on Shabazz Steve. I respectfully disagree. Not on your assessment of Shabazz but what you think this team needs ( shabazz's skills w/ beals head). I think we can all agree this team needs a scorer. a dominant scorer. The thing w/ dominant scorers is that they all have a shoot first mentatlity. you almost have to have that edge, that amnesia, that swag if you will to be a real prolific scorer. I can't think of a passive prolific scorer. This is part of my problem w/ beal. i think he shows flashes but i don't think he has that edge that mentality. He disappears way too often. He's a bit timid. he proved that w/ his slow start here and in FL. Sure he can fill it up when he's hot and he is gonna have big games. but prolific shooters (which is our expectation of him) aren't timid. if they go down, they go down shooting. Everyone has cold spells and bad days, but all the best shooters keep jacking them up. I don't see that in in Beal at all. Might sound crazy but beal needs some of that arrogance that crawford brings to the table. Don't get me wrong he doesn't need to take out of control bad shots, but crawford is the only guy on the team that has that scorer's mentality. IMO this team absolutely needs Shabazz and his shoot early and often mentality. If he gets the ball he should be looking to score full throttle. Let wall as a fascilitator keep shabazz and his shots under control.

[Going Commando]

There is a difference between the dominant scorers of the league and the gunners who score lots of points. LeBron, Wade, DRose, Durant, CP3, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Dirk, KG, etc. all dominant scorers at some point in their careers who never had to gun to get theirs. They understand when to shoot and when to pass, how to play within the flow and they get the "big picture" of what the offense is trying to achieve.

It's kind of the difference between Durant and Westbrook as scorers, though Westy doesn't always turn into Westbrick and start gunning every night.

Shabazz doesn't always grasp the fine line between playing aggressive and smart and playing selfish and stupid. He takes bad shots early in the clock. He zones in on his shot and takes contested looks instead of hitting open teammates. He's got so many different tools and can score from almost anywhere on the court that he thinks, "yeah I can score from there" and doesn't have patience. He always looks for his shot and is a bad passer on top of it (twice as many turnovers as assists).

It's really hard to build a cohesive offense that plays together and raises all boats with a wing like that. You'll see the guys at UCLA pretty much ignoring Shabazz as he's open on the wing and try and work the ball inside to lesser scorers because they know he doesn't pass. I don't think it's so much that he's selfish or a bad teammate. I think he just doesn't quite get it. That's a basketball deficiency as much as not having a jumper.

[earl]

i'm not looking to bring in another crawford at alll. I just think that keeping everyone involved should be wall's role. as a whole we can still run curls for beal. give nene the ball in the high post. try to establish seraphin in the low post and webster and ariza can still spot up in corners. But this team lacks a prolific scorer that is thinking score everytime he touches the ball. A guy that can create his own shot outside of the sets that we run. If shabazz, or any other wing player we bring in, decides to dominate the ball, bring it up and pound the rock for the entire shot clock, then yes i agree that is a "deficiency".

This team currently has absolutely no one that has a scorer's mentality. our best player defers. our rookie disappears way too often. Nene is more likely to try to pass the ball then establish himself in the paint and our SF's are lackluster. the only guys that are hungry for shots are crawford and seraphin and they are avg at best right now. this team has shown the ability to compete and play w/ anyone for 3.5 quarters. but down the stretch, in close games no one looks comfortable enough to step up and take over. That's what made Gilbert so lethal.

Give me a young assasin that can learn the nuances as he matures and let Wall be the floor general that keeps him under control and gets everyone else involved. cuz all the guys you just named that aren't PG's all think score first when they touch the ball. that is the flow of thier game plan. they typically get the ball where they want it, in an iso situation and they go to work. they only pass out of double teams. That's what the nba is about. Mchale was the black hole cuz you knew it was never coming out. that was his role and hardly a deficiency. best believe if Dirk, KG, Ray, PP etc. in thier primes are iso'ed up and have a look they are attacking. it only becomes a deficiency when the gunner is playing a PG role. thats why westbrook gets the criticism and lebron when he was bringing the ball up and no one else would touch the ball.

Furthermore the college game is a bit different. with zones and team D's you really need to play more team ball. The NBA is all one on one. your superstar vs. mine. Shabazz's style is more suited for the NBA. It is a fine line between aggressive and stupid. but you can teach someone to take smarter shots (crawford) but you can't teach someone to be a stone cold assassin.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

So is it significant that of the 3 teams Ted Leonsis currently owns (granted it's early for the Caps), all 3 of those teams are currently the worst teams in their respective leagues record-wise?

It's funny how we've ripped on Danny for so long, but Ted Leonsis is several orders of magnitude more inept. And he's so much easier to hate, because of his Mitt Romney-esque ability to completely ignore reality and continue to regurgitate spin. Ted was lucky he lucked into Ovie and Backstrom to make people think he knew what he was doing.

Edited February 1, 2013 by The Robert Griffin Experience

[lovetoaster]

And he's so much easier to hate, because of his Mitt Romney-esque ability to completely ignore reality and continue to regurgitate spin.

I think we can leave politics out of this, or at least say politician-esque because that quality is possessed by a lot more politicians than Romney these days.

[Destino]

So is it significant that of the 3 teams Ted Leonsis currently owns (granted it's early for the Caps), all 3 of those teams are currently the worst teams in their respective leagues record-wise?

It's funny how we've ripped on Danny for so long, but Ted Leonsis is several orders of magnitude more inept. And he's so much easier to hate, because of his Mitt Romney-esque ability to completely ignore reality and continue to regurgitate spin. Ted was lucky he lucked into Ovie and Backstrom to make people think he knew what he was doing.

And without RG3 we're still slamming Dan Snyder. In pro sports you've got to get great players. Ted has made the saw mistake Dan did, he's kept a bad GM. Sadly that move likely cost the Wizards James Harden. It's hard to quantify how huge that screw up is.

[Wrong Direction]

http://wizofawes.com/2013/01/22/the-kevin-seraphin-decision-tree/

[StillUnknown]

Beal won Rookie of the Month for January in the East.

[Going Commando]

Beal won Rookie of the Month for January in the East.

Nice. Got it for December and January.

He's not a strong ROTY candidate by the measure of past winners. And he definitely doesn't deserve it over Damian Lillard based on the first half of the season. But it's nice to see him get recognized and I think he's honestly been the second best rookie of the class, very encouraging since he's only 19 and is the second youngest rookie. Lillard is practically a grown man by comparison.

It's a shame he got hurt.

---------- Post added February-1st-2013 at 08:11 PM ----------

And without RG3 we're still slamming Dan Snyder. In pro sports you've got to get great players. Ted has made the saw mistake Dan did, he's kept a bad GM. Sadly that move likely cost the Wizards James Harden. It's hard to quantify how huge that screw up is.

I'm still not feeling salty about the Harden situation. I still don't think it was the right move for this team long term.

Bottom line:

- Harden buttresses this year's roster enough to ensure we get nothing out of the draft. But Wall + Harden are not good enough to get it done long term and I think there are repeater tax considerations to consider with that construction.

- Keeping Beal and losing this year, enough to potentially get a difference maker out of the draft like Nerlens leaves us in a better place long term IMO. Wall + Beal + Noel is good enough to eventually contend IMO. And keeping rookie deals with the likes of Beal and the draft pick makes sense while we wait for Nene and Okafor to come off the books so we can avoid repeater tax for a long time. I think the time frame makes more sense this way, and I think the potential payoff is greater.

Though I'll probably change my tune if we pick a total lemon in the draft or get someone I really don't like.

---------- Post added February-1st-2013 at 08:15 PM ----------

Hoping Memphis plays as poorly tonight as they did last night.

[Destino]

Wall hit a three!!

[StillUnknown]

Remember today's date for the record

Edited February 2, 2013 by StillUnknown

[Going Commando]

I think this is our best chance at a win in this five game stretch. We need to win here or else things are going to get pretty ugly again.

[Destino]

I'm still not feeling salty about the Harden situation. I still don't think it was the right move for this team long term.

Bottom line:

- Harden buttresses this year's roster enough to ensure we get nothing out of the draft. But Wall + Harden are not good enough to get it done long term and I think there are repeater tax considerations to consider with that construction.

.

Harden and Wall wouldn't matter to me as I'd be looking to trade Wall unless he took Rondo money. I don't think Wall is in the conversation with Harden. I'd have traded Wall for him straight up... Still would.

---------- Post added February-1st-2013 at 08:27 PM ----------

I think this is our best chance at a win in this five game stretch. We need to win here or else things are going to get pretty ugly again.

We play good teams closer than we should... We might sneak another win in there. I kind of expect us to win tonight.

[Going Commando]

Great first quarter.

---------- Post added February-1st-2013 at 08:36 PM ----------

Harden and Wall wouldn't matter to me as I'd be looking to trade Wall unless he took Rondo money. I don't think Wall is in the conversation with Harden. I'd have traded Wall for him straight up... Still would.

Wall isn't as good as Harden right now. But I wasn't really comparing Wall to Harden. We would have had both hypothetically. I was comparing Beal + a potential draft pick like Noel versus Harden. Plus the salary considerations.

Also, Wall still has his best basketball ahead of him. He's going to get better. A lot better IMO. I truly believe that.

And I think Wall in his prime will be a more valuable player than Harden considering their positions, but that's not really relevant to the discussion.

We play good teams closer than we should... We might sneak another win in there. I kind of expect us to win tonight.

I don't understand how you can have a relatively low opinion of Wall but still be optimistic about our chances night to night.