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The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The JOHN WALL ERA

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the marketing thing, god damnit ad plugs get you every time "fffin a cottin ffin a." i was wondering what the hell he did so special he jumped over the hood of a small compact car. check out james white cuz he makes that dunk look stupid. javales double dunk was pretty cool and never seen before. but derozan was and is a monster.

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Wow, the NBA fixing something. Never would have thought.....

---------- Post added February-21st-2011 at 11:25 AM ----------

I've been hearing the rumors about the Knicks owner Dolan, with regards to the Carmelo trade talks and they mentioned that Isiah might come back to NY. Would you guys like having Donnie Walsh run the show in DC? He was a good GM in Indiana and pretty much cleaned up the mess in NY.

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Did the Knicks actually improve with the Melo trade? Gallinari, Chandler, Mosgov, Lawson AND a first round pick seems like a pretty steep price to pay for Anthony and Renaldo Balkman. Chauncey Billups is a non-factor in the deal because he's going to want out or retire as soon as the season is over. Shelden Williams and Anthony Carter are both set for UFA and Carter is 100 years old anyway. I also think they gave up on Anthony Randolph too soon, and losing Eddy Curry's expiring contract really hurts plus they had to give up 3 million?

They basically have no resources or trade pieces left. Color me a skeptic because I don't see how dumping your entire team and trading every available resource you've got for a player who would have hit free agency this summer anyway is ****ing stupid. Anthony might be a top tier scorer, but he's not a top tier player of the same caliber as LeBron and Durant. He's not a good enough defender or rebounder to be in their strata. The Knicks were the only team bidding for Anthony and they still managed to gut their entire organization! LOL! Now they've got two defensively soft alpha dog scorers and nothing left to go after Chris Paul with.

I wouldn't trade situations with the Knicks, that's how I know their trade was a lateral move at best. I'm willing to bet fans of Orlando, Miami, Chicago, Boston, and Atlanta wouldn't trade rosters with them either.

James Dolan is a disaster.

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Did the Knicks actually improve with the Melo trade? Gallinari, Chandler, Mosgov, Lawson AND a first round pick seems like a pretty steep price to pay for Anthony and Renaldo Balkman. Chauncey Billups is a non-factor in the deal because he's going to want out or retire as soon as the season is over. Shelden Williams and Anthony Carter are both set for UFA and Carter is 100 years old anyway. I also think they gave up on Anthony Randolph too soon, and losing Eddy Curry's expiring contract really hurts plus they had to give up 3 million?

They basically have no resources or trade pieces left. Color me a skeptic because I don't see how dumping your entire team and trading every available resource you've got for a player who would have hit free agency this summer anyway is ****ing stupid. Anthony might be a top tier scorer, but he's not a top tier player of the same caliber as LeBron and Durant. He's not a good enough defender or rebounder to be in their strata. The Knicks were the only team bidding for Anthony and they still managed to gut their entire organization! LOL! Now they've got two defensively soft alpha dog scorers and nothing left to go after Chris Paul with.

I wouldn't trade situations with the Knicks, that's how I know their trade was a lateral move at best. I'm willing to bet fans of Orlando, Miami, Chicago, Boston, and Atlanta wouldn't trade rosters with them either.

James Dolan is a disaster.

Carmelo > all those losers

And it wasnt guaranteed that Carmello was going to hit the market next year, there was a lot of talk that he was going to sign an extension with Denver. And this is a great move for the Knicks, they now have a Big 3 with Chauncey coming over as well. They now have two of the best 10 players in the NBA both in the starting lineup, and if you dont think that Carmello is a top tier player then maybe youre not watching the same NBA as everyone else is. This is the same guy who scored 33 points in one quarter, and has average 20+ ppg every season he has played in.

Edited by Backpack3r

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http://www.bulletsforever.com/2011/2/19/2003724/blake-griffin-dunk-contest-2011-javale-mcgee

In the comments are 3 animated gifs of McGee's first 3 dunks. They were awesome. Too bad Ibaka stole his dunk and he couldn't use it.

I think McGee should have just done the bite dunk. Even though Ibaka had already done it, it would have been fine for McGee to do a slight variation and show that he could do it too.

Maybe if he had put a taco bell chalupa into the netting and bit it while dunking, he would have had a chance to win.

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Did the Knicks actually improve with the Melo trade? Gallinari, Chandler, Mosgov, Lawson AND a first round pick seems like a pretty steep price to pay for Anthony and Renaldo Balkman. Chauncey Billups is a non-factor in the deal because he's going to want out or retire as soon as the season is over. Shelden Williams and Anthony Carter are both set for UFA and Carter is 100 years old anyway. I also think they gave up on Anthony Randolph too soon, and losing Eddy Curry's expiring contract really hurts plus they had to give up 3 million?

They basically have no resources or trade pieces left. Color me a skeptic because I don't see how dumping your entire team and trading every available resource you've got for a player who would have hit free agency this summer anyway is ****ing stupid. Anthony might be a top tier scorer, but he's not a top tier player of the same caliber as LeBron and Durant. He's not a good enough defender or rebounder to be in their strata. The Knicks were the only team bidding for Anthony and they still managed to gut their entire organization! LOL! Now they've got two defensively soft alpha dog scorers and nothing left to go after Chris Paul with.

I wouldn't trade situations with the Knicks, that's how I know their trade was a lateral move at best. I'm willing to bet fans of Orlando, Miami, Chicago, Boston, and Atlanta wouldn't trade rosters with them either.

James Dolan is a disaster.

Id trade half our roster for Carmelo. Melo is actually good at defense... when he plays. The only problem with the trade is that they now have a point guard who is not a slasher, effectively ruining Amare's offensive ability. Im sure they will pick up someone at pg for a decent price. I think a dark horse for this team is Ricky Rubio. He is pulling a manning and will never play in minnesota. I could see him in NY. In fact... im calling it.

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You dont win a championship without 2 superstars. David Aldrige spoke to a championship coach in the NBA this past weekend and he said you do anything possible to get melo. Its eaiser to build a supporting cast instead of a superstar. They are getting paul or deron in 2012 anyways

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You dont win a championship without 2 superstars. David Aldrige spoke to a championship coach in the NBA this past weekend and he said you do anything possible to get melo. Its eaiser to build a supporting cast instead of a superstar. They are getting paul or deron in 2012 anyways

Tell that to the Celtics and the Spurs.

Also, they aren't going to build a supporting cast if they're hamstrung from giving up the boat for one player.

And I'd be shocked if either Paul or Williams leave their current teams. Both seem happy where they are. If Paul is going anywhere, it'll be through a trade. We're probably getting a franchise tag in the new CBA so those two won't walk in FA.

Billups isn't going to stick with the Knicks. He only wants to play in Denver. He'll retire if they don't deal or let him opt out of his contract. His contract is the only decent trade piece they have left besides Landry Fields and neither are enough to bring in a true difference maker any more.

So what they ended up with is a decent rookie SG, a PG who's most likely in his final year with the team, and a pair of offensively gifted but soft forwards who need to shoot 20-25 times a game in order to remain effective. They have absolutely nothing else after that. They didn't gain any ground on the top five teams in the Eastern Conference, and the only team that's ahead of them that might slip is Boston because they're aging.

They should have made that huge trade for Chris Paul or Deron Williams now and waited until Melo hit FA in the summer. Melo wasn't going to sign an extension with Denver and to think that was a possibility is utterly ridiculous. If he were going to he'd have done it this summer and we wouldn't have had a year of trade speculation and bridge burning.

No one else was going to trade for Melo because they knew he wouldn't sign an extension with them. There was no competition to up the bid except in Dolan's mind. If they had Paul already on the roster, there wouldn't have been any competition to sign him in the summer.

This was a stupid trade because Dolan gave up the farm in order to get a player he could have signed in FA.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 02:12 PM ----------

Carmelo > all those losers

And it wasnt guaranteed that Carmello was going to hit the market next year, there was a lot of talk that he was going to sign an extension with Denver. And this is a great move for the Knicks, they now have a Big 3 with Chauncey coming over as well. They now have two of the best 10 players in the NBA both in the starting lineup, and if you dont think that Carmello is a top tier player then maybe youre not watching the same NBA as everyone else is. This is the same guy who scored 33 points in one quarter, and has average 20+ ppg every season he has played in.

Carmelo isn't one of the ten best players in the NBA right now.

1. LeBron

2. Durant

3. Kobe

4. Howard

5. Rose

6. Stoudemire

7. Nowitzki

8. Paul

9. Wade

10. Williams

He barely cracks the top 15 IMO:

11. Westbrook

12. Gasol

13. Love

14. Rondo

15. Carmelo

Also, notice that the Spurs are the best team in the league without a single top 15 player? The Celtics are the best team in the East with one top 15 player. The Hawks are one of the best teams in the East with no top 15 players. The Magic have only one. The Bulls have only one. Each of those teams are better than the Knicks with Carmelo.

I don't think Carmelo is any more a superstar than say, Monta Ellis or any other offensively gifted but one dimensional wing player. He's not a franchise caliber player in the class of LeBron, Kobe, or Durant.

- Billups isn't going to stay with the team beyond this year or next, which is before they'll realistically hope to contend

- Carmelo wasn't going to sign an extension with Denver and had no desire to continue playing for them

- The Knicks would have been the easy favorite to sign Carmelo in the summer (the Nets weren't going to beat them in a bid).

Carmelo might make sense for their team in the long run, but this was a stupid trade.

Edited by stevemcqueen1

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I agree that the Knicks should have waited to sign Carmelo and tried a big trade for Paul or Dwill because of the new CBA but to say he is barely a top 15 player is just nonsense. A lot of people were saying he was the best player on that 2008 Team USA. He has the clutch gene and can score almost anyway he wants. He is more in the class of Durant and James than he is in the same class as Monta Ellis.

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Did the Knicks actually improve with the Melo trade? Gallinari, Chandler, Mosgov, Lawson AND a first round pick seems like a pretty steep price to pay for Anthony and Renaldo Balkman.

Lawson is the PG for Denver....NY traded Felton (both young UNC point guards...I knew what you meant) just clearing it up for anyone who didn't....

I don't think it was a steep price at all....All three teams in this deal came out in good situation. Melo didn't want to be in Denver and got out; Denver got some pieces to start their rebuild...and they weren't contending with Melo anyway; NY got their guy and didn't give up too much in the process.

Here is what NY gave up and why it isn't a big deal: They give up Felton and get back Billups. Although Felton was having a pretty good year, he has started to trail off as of late and the Knicks get a better shooting PG who has playoffs/finals experience. I'll take Billups over Felton any day. Both had one more year left on their contracts (you say Chauncey will retire...but I seriously doubt he leaves 14 million on the table when he can make that money and play for a legit playoff team in the east) Part of the trade was an agreement that NY picks up his team option for next year. Billups is more expensive, but to NY money aint a thang till 2012 anyway...so that is a non issue.

Wilson Chandler is a restricted free agent who wasn't going to be with the Knicks after this year anyway. He has had a great year....and he will get paid by someone. NY is going to try and position themselves to get one of the Big named FA for 2012, so they wont be droping any big money on roll playing restricted free agents. So Wilson is a non issue

Anthony Randolph....the man isn't getting any playing time anyway, so why not pick up a legit roll playing perimeter defender in Brewer, every team needs one. I think NY came out on top w/ this move on the short term.

So essentially after analyzing these prior players....it pretty much comes down to trading Galo and Mazgov for Melo....which I'm not even going to elaborate on because it is a no brainer.

Chauncey Billups is a non-factor in the deal because he's going to want out or retire as soon as the season is over

he isn't retiring...he'll get that 14 million dollar team option

. Shelden Williams and Anthony Carter are both set for UFA and Carter is 100 years old anyway. I also think they gave up on Anthony Randolph too soon, and losing Eddy Curry's expiring contract really hurts plus they had to give up 3 million?

Williams and Carter were both just fillers...but they could actually both play rolls coming off the bench. Randolph wasn't getting any playing time...he is talented, but he is also a crazy head case, so I think it was probably good for them to remove the cancer before it spread. I don't think there were too many teams biting on Eddy Curry's expiring and 3 million is nothing for the knicks.

They basically have no resources or trade pieces left. Color me a skeptic because I don't see how dumping your entire team and trading every available resource you've got for a player who would have hit free agency this summer anyway is ****ing stupid.

they got a lot of pieces back in return like Billups and Brewer who will pay off. Melo wasn't going to hit the free agent market. There was 0% chance that he wouldn't have signed the extension....even if that meant him going to NJ or staying in Denver. That extension will be worth 20-30 million more than he could have gotten with the new CBA....he actually probably would have just been franchised by Denver in the off-season anyway....because there will more than likely be a franchise tag with the new CBA.

Anthony might be a top tier scorer, but he's not a top tier player of the same caliber as LeBron and Durant. He's not a good enough defender or rebounder to be in their strata.

I agree 100%....but he is still better than Gallo and Mazgov

The Knicks were the only team bidding for Anthony and they still managed to gut their entire organization! LOL! Now they've got two defensively soft alpha dog scorers and nothing left to go after Chris Paul with.

Amare Stoudemire has actually been playing pretty good defense this year....I wouldn't be surprised if Melo follow suit when he gets playing with the NYK. Chris Paul wouldn't be the target anyway...it would be Deron Williams....less injury concerns.....Chris Paul wont last as long with his knee issues. Doesn't matter anyway....with the new CBA they aren't getting three max guys. I actually would have waited till 2012 and went for Dwight Howard....but there are no guarantees that they are getting any free agents in 2012, so they went for the sure thing this year.

I wouldn't trade situations with the Knicks, that's how I know their trade was a lateral move at best. I'm willing to bet fans of Orlando, Miami, Chicago, Boston, and Atlanta wouldn't trade

rosters with them either.

I wouldn't either...but that is because we have our own Superstars to build around. John Wall is having a better rookie season than both Chris Paul and D will....and we see how they turned out. I think Nick Young will build off his break out year and we have a lottery pick and will have cap flexibility in a new CBA era where most teams will be in gridlock.

I take Orlando, Chicago, and Boston's roster over the knicks...however Boston is working on a two year window until they have to re-load around rondo/perkins/big baby and Orlando might not look very good in 2012 if Howard bounces. Chicago has the best roster in the league in my opinion when you are looking at the next 5 years or so.

I hate the Heat's roster....they will never win a championship with the players they have and they aren't going to have any cap space or draft picks to improve their roster for the next 4 years. There aren't going to be any more MLE and BAE after this year's CBA!

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 03:00 PM ----------

Tell that to the Celtics and the Spurs.

so who don't you think is a super star out of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Kevin Garnet (of three years ago), and Paul Pierce (of three years ago) because they all are....and Ginobli and Ray Allen are sitting right outside the super star parameters.

And I'd be shocked if either Paul or Williams leave their current teams. Both seem happy where they are. If Paul is going anywhere, it'll be through a trade. We're probably getting a franchise tag in the new CBA so those two won't walk in FA.

I agree with you on the franchise tag part and I do believe there will be a tag; but as soon as either of these guys are given a change to leave....I think they both bounce.

Billups isn't going to stick with the Knicks. He only wants to play in Denver. He'll retire if they don't deal or let him opt out of his contract.

he isn't going to retire with a 14 million dollar option on the table (which the Knicks agreed to pick up as part of the trade) it is possible that he will get traded next year at the trade deadline, but I think the Knicks will probably just hold on to him. He is more like Steve Nash than Felton was....much more of a clutch shooter that will pay off in the playoffs and he is a very smart player who has been there before.

They should have made that huge trade for Chris Paul or Deron Williams now and waited until Melo hit FA in the summer. Melo wasn't going to sign an extension with Denver and to think that was a possibility is utterly ridiculous. If he were going to he'd have done it this summer and we wouldn't have had a year of trade speculation and bridge burning.

I actually think it is utterly ridiculous that you think Melo was going to pass on the 20-30 million he'd leave on the table by not signing the extension. It didn't matter if it was for the Cleveland Cavs, Minnesota Twolves, Nets, or the Nuggets...Melo was signing the extension no matter what. It was a game of chicken and the Nuggets blinked....Melo got his cake and ate it too...good for him...hope it works out terribly for him...but he was signing the extension either way.

Carmelo isn't one of the ten best players in the NBA right now.

1. LeBron

2. Durant

3. Kobe

4. Howard

5. Rose

6. Stoudemire

7. Nowitzki

8. Paul

9. Wade

10. Williams

He barely cracks the top 15 IMO:

11. Westbrook

12. Gasol

13. Love

14. Rondo

15. Carmelo

Melo is a better pure scorer than everyone on this list besides maybe Durant and maybe Kobe. He is at least the third best scorer in the whole NBA....so when you consider that...I think he has to be one of the top players in the league. I'd rather build around some of the other players you listed...no doubt....but he does what he does well.

Also, notice that the Spurs are the best team in the league without a single top 15 player? The Celtics are the best team in the East with one top 15 player
.

The Spurs and the Celtics are build correctly. I'm actually not in favor of the two-three super star teams of today's NBA....I prefer a Boston/San Antonio/Pistons (billups/wallaces/rip) formula for a championship. OKC is on their way. So I agree with you on this

The Hawks are one of the best teams in the East with no top 15 players.

That Hawks team has been together for several years now....they aren't getting anywhere...they will make the playoffs ever year....but they will never contend....kind of like these Knicks and the Heat...haha. It is pretty much between Chicago and Boston at this point.

I don't think Carmelo is any more a superstar than say, Monta Ellis or any other offensively gifted but one dimensional wing player. He's not a franchise caliber player in the class of LeBron, Kobe, or Durant.

I do think he is a super star...but I don't think he is a franchise cornerstone.

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Why do people think it's a slam-dunk that the Knicks will get CP3 or Deron Williams in 2012. With the new CBA, they won't be able to pay max money, and those two would have to take a SIGNIFICANT pay cut to play in NY.

from the BDL blog:

Because New York has precious little options in place to improve the team. With Stoudemire, Anthony and Billups, the Knicks are now set to battle an aging (yet still championship-level) Boston squad, a growing Miami Heat team and a Bulls team that is clearly better than the sum of the Knicks' parts . Not terrible, but not on the level. Anthony and Chauncey did take a Nuggets team to the conference finals two years ago. Though Isiah obviously led the charge on this deal, this isn't an Isiah Thomas-styled franchise-killer.

But these are your Knicks, New York. And though Anthony will be an improvement over Gallinari, he won't help the team on the defensive end. He'll help the squad offensively, where the Knicks are ranked eighth overall, but that will only go so far. He won't help the team's interior defense, he won't help the squad's transition offense, and he won't help Chauncey Billups pretend that it's 2006 all over again. He will score over 20 points per game, sometimes he'll make more than half his shots, and in the 2013-14 season he will earn nearly half as much as the NBA salary cap is for that particular season. Again, it's not the trade, it's the extension.

Knicks fans -- and the New York-area columnists that double as mouthpieces for Isiah Thomas -- can prattle on all they want about how free agents will look past money from other outlets to come play for New York. Because of AAU history or the supposed love of Isiah's game, even if Isiah retired well before some upcoming free agents were even allowed to watch cable at night. What we do know now is that Anthony and Stoudemire could make about 80 percent of New York's cap-allowed payroll following this summer's lockout, and Billups won't help. Walsh put together a plan for the summer of 2012, and as it stands the Knicks will have just Stoudemire and Anthony on the books. But with those two set to make about $40 million combined on a salary cap that might only be around $48 million or so, what's the point?

And who's the point guard? Chris Paul(notes)? Because he liked Isiah when he was in diapers? Come on.

This is what happens when you let star-kissers run your team.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/New-York-trades-for-Carmelo-Anthony?urn=nba-324760#remaining-content

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I'm just glad the trade is finally official. These Melo trade talk rumors were reaching Favre levels in obnoxiousness.

very close too....Favre is still the drama queen though!

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Tell that to the Celtics and the Spurs.

Also, they aren't going to build a supporting cast if they're hamstrung from giving up the boat for one player.

And I'd be shocked if either Paul or Williams leave their current teams. Both seem happy where they are. If Paul is going anywhere, it'll be through a trade. We're probably getting a franchise tag in the new CBA so those two won't walk in FA.

Billups isn't going to stick with the Knicks. He only wants to play in Denver. He'll retire if they don't deal or let him opt out of his contract. His contract is the only decent trade piece they have left besides Landry Fields and neither are enough to bring in a true difference maker any more.

So what they ended up with is a decent rookie SG, a PG who's most likely in his final year with the team, and a pair of offensively gifted but soft forwards who need to shoot 20-25 times a game in order to remain effective. They have absolutely nothing else after that. They didn't gain any ground on the top five teams in the Eastern Conference, and the only team that's ahead of them that might slip is Boston because they're aging.

They should have made that huge trade for Chris Paul or Deron Williams now and waited until Melo hit FA in the summer. Melo wasn't going to sign an extension with Denver and to think that was a possibility is utterly ridiculous. If he were going to he'd have done it this summer and we wouldn't have had a year of trade speculation and bridge burning.

No one else was going to trade for Melo because they knew he wouldn't sign an extension with them. There was no competition to up the bid except in Dolan's mind. If they had Paul already on the roster, there wouldn't have been any competition to sign him in the summer.

This was a stupid trade because Dolan gave up the farm in order to get a player he could have signed in FA.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 02:12 PM ----------

Carmelo isn't one of the ten best players in the NBA right now.

1. LeBron

2. Durant

3. Kobe

4. Howard

5. Rose

6. Stoudemire

7. Nowitzki

8. Paul

9. Wade

10. Williams

He barely cracks the top 15 IMO:

11. Westbrook

12. Gasol

13. Love

14. Rondo

15. Carmelo

Also, notice that the Spurs are the best team in the league without a single top 15 player? The Celtics are the best team in the East with one top 15 player. The Hawks are one of the best teams in the East with no top 15 players. The Magic have only one. The Bulls have only one. Each of those teams are better than the Knicks with Carmelo.

I don't think Carmelo is any more a superstar than say, Monta Ellis or any other offensively gifted but one dimensional wing player. He's not a franchise caliber player in the class of LeBron, Kobe, or Durant.

- Billups isn't going to stay with the team beyond this year or next, which is before they'll realistically hope to contend

- Carmelo wasn't going to sign an extension with Denver and had no desire to continue playing for them

- The Knicks would have been the easy favorite to sign Carmelo in the summer (the Nets weren't going to beat them in a bid).

Carmelo might make sense for their team in the long run, but this was a stupid trade.

Lol do you even follow the NBA or are you just pulling **** out of your ass?

The Spurs have always had 2+ superstars in each of their titles, lol so have the celtics

Uhh, Chris Paul and Deron Williams are as good as gone. You will be shocked if they leave their teams? Again, do you follow the NBA? You do know that Chris Paul asked for a trade this offseason, and at Carmello's wedding, he joked that him, melo and amare will be on the same Knicks team in a couple summers

And you said "notice how the Spurs are the best team without a top 15 player." Well, they did have 3 all stars this year... And the celtics, have you never heard the term the "Big 3." Meaning 3 superstars on one team, the Celtics pretty much came up with that lol. And the Hawks are irrelevant but they do in fact have two all stars.

And Melo is easily top 10 player, and easily top 5 or top 3 pure scorer, not to mention his clutch factor

And how sure are you that Melo was going to sign with the Knicks, they obviously werent sure of it, that is why they pulled the trigger on this trade, which was a no-brainer. Trade a bunch of young scrubs for one of the best players in the league. He could have signed in NJ or Denver for more money than in NY, so it was not guaranteed that he would go there.

Delete your post lmao

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Lol do you even follow the NBA or are you just pulling **** out of your ass?

The Spurs have always had 2+ superstars in each of their titles, lol so have the celtics

Uhh, Chris Paul and Deron Williams are as good as gone. You will be shocked if they leave their teams? Again, do you follow the NBA? You do know that Chris Paul asked for a trade this offseason, and at Carmello's wedding, he joked that him, melo and amare will be on the same Knicks team in a couple summers

And you said "notice how the Spurs are the best team without a top 15 player." Well, they did have 3 all stars this year... And the celtics, have you never heard the term the "Big 3." Meaning 3 superstars on one team, the Celtics pretty much came up with that lol. And the Hawks are irrelevant but they do in fact have two all stars.

And Melo is easily top 10 player, and easily top 5 or top 3 pure scorer, not to mention his clutch factor

And how sure are you that Melo was going to sign with the Knicks, they obviously werent sure of it, that is why they pulled the trigger on this trade, which was a no-brainer. Trade a bunch of young scrubs for one of the best players in the league. He could have signed in NJ or Denver for more money than in NY, so it was not guaranteed that he would go there.

Delete your post lmao

Yes I do in fact follow the NBA. Here's a question for you, do you have to be such an obnoxious moron in the way you post? You just make yourself look childish and stupid.

I'm talking about the NBA right now, not what it was three or four years ago. The Celtics might have multiple All Stars on their team, but they only have one true superstar top 15 player at this point and that's Rondo. Pierce, Garnett, and Allen may have been in the top tier several years ago, but they aren't in that tier any more. None of them would crack a list of the top 20-25 individual players. They win because they're a great team. Pierce, Garnett, and Allen got to the All Star game because their team wins.

Ditto for the spurs. Duncan is an all time great but he's not one of the 25 best players in the NBA right now either. Neither are Ginobli or Parker. They've got a great team though and leading the league in wins is why they get their players into the All Star game. The Spurs, like the Celtics, are much greater than the sum of their parts.

Yes I remember the story about the wedding. I also remember Chris Paul putting the kibosh on the trade talk this season when New Orleans started winning. They probably aren't going to trade him and, once the CBA gets put into effect, he's probably not going anywhere. Certainly not to the Knicks because they can't afford him now. They can't afford anyone any more and they have almost nothing left to trade for a reasonably priced piece.

When the two-headed disaster known as James Dolan and Isiah Thomas are the masterminds behind a trade, dollars to donuts it's a bad move.

Oh and Carmelo is absolutely, positively, not one of the ten best players in the NBA right now. He might be one of the five best scorers, but so is Monta Ellis. I can think of 15 players off the top of my head that I would rather have than Carmelo right now. I can think of much more than that if we're talking about long term roster building.

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Yes I do in fact follow the NBA. Here's a question for you, do you have to be such an obnoxious moron in the way you post? You just make yourself look childish and stupid.

I'm talking about the NBA right now, not what it was three or four years ago. The Celtics might have multiple All Stars on their team, but they only have one true superstar top 15 player at this point and that's Rondo. Pierce, Garnett, and Allen may have been in the top tier several years ago, but they aren't in that tier any more. None of them would crack a list of the top 20-25 individual players. They win because they're a great team. Pierce, Garnett, and Allen got to the All Star game because their team wins.

Ditto for the spurs. Duncan is an all time great but he's not one of the 25 best players in the NBA right now either. Neither are Ginobli or Parker. They've got a great team though and leading the league in wins is why they get their players into the All Star game. The Spurs, like the Celtics, are much greater than the sum of their parts.

Yes I remember the story about the wedding. I also remember Chris Paul putting the kibosh on the trade talk this season when New Orleans started winning. They probably aren't going to trade him and, once the CBA gets put into effect, he's probably not going anywhere. Certainly not to the Knicks because they can't afford him now. They can't afford anyone any more and they have almost nothing left to trade for a reasonably priced piece.

When the two-headed disaster known as James Dolan and Isiah Thomas are the masterminds behind a trade, dollars to donuts it's a bad move.

Oh and Carmelo is absolutely, positively, not one of the ten best players in the NBA right now. He might be one of the five best scorers, but so is Monta Ellis. I can think of 15 players off the top of my head that I would rather have than Carmelo right now. I can think of much more than that if we're talking about long term roster building.

You dont have to be in your twisted definition of a top 15 player to be considered a superstar. The spurs and celtics both have multiple superstars on their teams, if you disagree then you cant be helped.

And you cant honestly believe that Carmelo is not top 10, you just sound like a Melo hater because any person who knows the NBA will tell you he is one of the best scorers in the league.

And if the Hornets dont improve then you better believe Chris Paul is gone, they arent going to do anything in the playoffs this year so they better hope they get better next year cause he is outta there. He wants to win.

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You dont have to be in your twisted definition of a top 15 player to be considered a superstar. The spurs and celtics both have multiple superstars on their teams, if you disagree then you cant be helped.
They have multiple great players right now. Let's throw out the term superstar because it's apparently not very meaningful to you. A franchise caliber player is someone who can singlehandedly put you in the playoffs, and one you can build a championship caliber roster around. He is among the two or three best all around players at his position in the league, (unless he's a PG, where there are many more franchise caliber players than 3). Duncan was a superstar in the past and Ginobli might have been one of the five best SGs in the league at various points in his career, but that's not the case now. They're just great players who fit within the structure of San Antonio's organization and create a synergistic championship caliber team. I agree with Gaitorbait that building a team around 2 or 3 max contract superstars is a bad way to form a contender because you can't beat the Lakers, the Spurs, or the Celtics that way. Those teams are complete and intelligently built. The Bulls are getting there. The Clippers might be there in a couple of years. You need to build a team with a quality perimeter--post combination. And this is a PG league now, you pretty much need to have a good one to drive your offense. I don't know how the Knicks are going to get one now. They're stuck in neutral and have no resources left to improve themselves outside of trading Landry Fields or Chauncey Billups' expiring contract. You can't build a contender with Anthony, Stoudemire, and Corey Brewer. How are they going to get a quality big and PG? Now they're just a poor man's Miami. If this move didn't improve their chances to win in the East by helping them gain ground on the powers of the conference, what was the point in making it? To sell tickets and false hope.

I would genuinely rather build around our roster than theirs. We've got an elite facilitator and an extremely efficient scoring two already plus we'll probably have a high lottery pick this season. We've got decent trade pieces like Blatche and a promising young big in McGee plus young glue guys like Booker and Seraphin. The way we're building our roster actually makes sense. We won't need to trade everything for a top 15 player down the line if we nail this lottery pick.

And you cant honestly believe that Carmelo is not top 10, you just sound like a Melo hater because any person who knows the NBA will tell you he is one of the best scorers in the league.
Yes I absolutely believe that. If I wanted to build an immediate winner, I would take each of these 14 players over Carmelo:

1 - LeBron

2 - Durant

3 - Howard

4 - Kobe

5 - Wade

6 - Rose

7 - Williams

8 - Paul

9 - Rondo

10 - Westbrook

11 - Stoudemire

12 - Nowitzki

13 - Gasol

14 - Love

Who would you take Carmelo over from that list if you wanted to build a winner today?

If I wanted to build a long term contender, I'd rank Carmelo only slightly better. These are the players I'd rather have to build with over the long term than Carmelo:

- Rose

- Durant

- James

- Wall

- Howard

- Paul

- Rondo

- Westbrook

- Williams

- Griffin

- Love

- Evans

And maybe Ellis and Curry (younger, much better contracts)

If you're ranking the younger players by their ability to be franchise transforming cornerstones, Carmelo is in the same group as Brook Lopez, Andrew Bogut, Tony Parker and Chris Bosh--excellent players who do a couple of things really well but aren't the all around dominant players that I ranked ahead of them. Most of those guys are either younger and have better contracts than Anthony does, or they've got better all around potential.

Carmelo is one of the best scorers in the league, but he's not one of the best players. He's nowhere near as good as LeBron is and that's what you're paying for with him, his extension, and this trade. LeBron's team went from the best team in the regular season last year to one of the worst teams in league history as soon as he left.

And if the Hornets dont improve then you better believe Chris Paul is gone, they arent going to do anything in the playoffs this year so they better hope they get better next year cause he is outta there. He wants to win.
Or he'll get franchised and have to stay put. Regardless, how is he going to end up on the Knicks? They can't trade for him now. They also can't afford to sign him in free agency. He's not going to settle for ten million a year and that's assuming the cap stays at it's current level. It's expected to be lowered quite a bit.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 07:52 PM ----------

melo is top7. u named like 8 PG in your top 15... he is 2nd best scorer in the league

Yeah man. Because it's easier to build a contender around an elite PG than a scoring 3.

- Rose

- Westbrook

- Paul

- Rondo

- Williams

They're all more valuable than Anthony is. Their teams win more than Anthony's have. And Anthony's teams only started winning in the playoffs once they got Chauncey Billups.

If the 3 is an elite defender and point forward then maybe you can build a contender without a PG. But the most important parts of building a championship team are:

1.) Offensive facilitator

2.) Post scorer/defender/rebounder

You also need perimeter stoppers and shooters too, but those guys are practically a dime a dozen compared to those first two players.

Also, what's with all of the hyperbole all of the sudden with Carmelo's scoring ability. He's not better than LeBron or Durant so he's not top two. He's not better than Kobe on a good night either. He's probably not even better than Wade. Top 5? Yeah probably. But not top 3. The kicker is that he's not as good a defender as any of those guys either.

Edited by stevemcqueen1

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there is no such thing as the franchise tag in the NBA. Paul or Deron williams is coming to NY in 2012. Billups 14.2 million is coming off the books next year

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Melo is indeed a top flight NBA player but people are forgetting the obvious. The only reason you make a trade like that is for a championship and in order to win one you have to play defense. Though considering the types of players they've brought in and their coach perhaps the Knicks just want to be the next Phoenix Suns. Melo is a great scorer but scorers don't win rings. Great scorers that can defend do.

Champs from most recent:

2010 - Lakers. Huge front court and Kobe play tremendous defense

Lakers

Celtics

Spurs

Heat

Spurs

Pistons

Spurs

Lakers

Lakers

Lakers

Spurs

Bulls

Bulls

Bulls

Point out the ones with stars that didn't play above average defense? Where are the "great scorers" without the production on the opposite end of the floor hoisting up a trophy?

---------- Post added February-23rd-2011 at 01:28 AM ----------

there is no such thing as the franchise tag in the NBA. Paul or Deron williams is coming to NY in 2012. Billups 14.2 million is coming off the books next year

There is a new CBA in the works. FYI

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