The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

I think the one thing to avoid is getting younger by which I mean replacing a starter with a rookie. This team won't progress doing that. This team is winning as much because of Okafor and Nene stepping it up on both ends of the floor as they are because of Wall and Beal. Arguably moreso because Wall and Beal are still very inconsistent. That's why I wouldn't trade any starter for a draft pick unless there was a veteran replacement.

I think other than a star SF the biggest need is a quality big man. Booker is made of glass and not very good. Seraphin has regressed badly. The drop off from Nene and Okafor is monstrous. I'd love to have Noel or Zeller on the bench behind Nene and Okafor able to grow without the team depending on them for consistent production. What I want to avoid is this team continuing to be a NBA development team. Rookies that legitimately beat out a starter for minutes isn't a problem but they can't be put out there to learn on the job at the expense of everyone else on the floor.

I agree. We've moved out of the first phase of the rebuild.

If you keep tanking you will end up giving up on Wall because we have to start winning with him eventually. It'd be a never ending rebuild.

I hope we get a big man out of this draft. It's the biggest looming need. Okafor's deal is probably going to be hard not to trade at the deadline, but we could also use the savings. I think it'd be a pretty desperate situation to have to re-up him at the end of next year. So draft a big man this year and start grooming him. Noel would be nice but he's unlikely. I think Zeller is our man. Just pick him and don't over think it. Take the athletic seven footer with the awesome feel for the game.

---------- Post added February-24th-2013 at 08:53 PM ----------

The thing is you can't develop the whole team at the same time. Beal is being developed now. Had we traded everything for picks we'd have another young horrible team trying to put it all together while choking in a cloud of negativity. Nene and Okafor for a short period while the guards figure their game out is a good thing. Consider what the team looked like in Wall's first year. What the front court looked like at the beginning of last year. Yikes.

Yeah it's going to set the entire team back majorly if we bust up the front court without credible replacements. The defense would get horrible again and defense is how we're going to make our improvements and start winning more games than we lose.

Regarding an earlier point you made, having Nene at the 4 and not the 5 has actually been a big boon for the team IMO. You mention before that we've got pure spot up shooters at the 2 and 3 and not really much creative ability there. But we also haven't had that much trouble offensive since Wall got back. I think having Nene at the 4 has been a source of creativity and playmaking out of the post.

Also I think Beal is something more than just a spot up shooter. He doesn't put guys on their asses but he picks his way around the floor into open space very effectively. Got a nice little mid range dribble pull up. And he goes hard and uses his strength to get to the rim.

[Skins199021]

I understand that. But if we are starting to edge toward being competitive I really like the idea of us trading for another lotto pick in 2013, and resigning martell Webster. Is there a team out there that anyone can think up that would trade their lotto pick for Vesely, Ariza, and our 2014 1st?

If we can come out of this draft with one of Porter/Mohammed and one Noel/Zeller/Len/Austin I think that would really put us on the map.

Question that I hope someone can answer. What makes an expiring contract like Okefors next year so appealing to other teams in trades? I have never quite understood that.

[Going Commando]

I understand that. But if we are starting to edge toward being competitive I really like the idea of us trading for another lotto pick in 2013, and resigning martell Webster. Is there a team out there that anyone can think up that would trade their lotto pick for Vesely, Ariza, and our 2014 1st?

If we can come out of this draft with one of Porter/Mohammed and one Noel/Zeller/Len/Austin I think that would really put us on the map.

Question that I hope someone can answer. What makes an expiring contract like Okefors next year so appealing to other teams in trades? I have never quite understood that.

It's not as complicated as it sounds when you get the hang of the CBA.

- In the NBA the full contracts of players are guaranteed, unlike the NFL. So the only way for them to come off your pay roll, and thus come off your salary cap, is for them to expire. (There are some exceptions where you can waive a player earlier and pay fees but just ignore those for now).

- The NBA has a soft salary cap, unlike the hard cap in the NFL, which means teams can spend over the salary cap limit by using a list of different cap exceptions. I would say most teams go over the salary cap most years.

- If a team is over the salary cap, if they want to trade for a player, they have to make sure the player(s) they ship out have a similar salary that year to the one(s) they get back in return. Specifically, the total salary they receive can be no greater than 125% of the total salary they give away.

Okafor's deal is scheduled to expire next season, and he's scheduled to make 14.5 million dollars in salary next year. That's like 25% of a team's total salary cap, so it's a big contract. That means roughly 25% of a team's cap becomes free that offseason when his deal expires. So teams trying to get under the cap to make FA moves or save money or whatever, would really want to trade for Okafor. It's an opportunity to shed a ton of salary in one shot.

And to top it off, Okafor is pretty good. Usually when you trade for an expiring contract, you have to just eat that money because the guy sucks or is injured. Okafor can actually help a team win at a crucial position for the duration of his contract.

It's also worth pointing out that we could use Okafor ourselves and we could use the cap savings next summer too because we'll be negotiating an extension for Wall. So it'd only be worth our while to trade Okafor if we actually got something good in return. And remember, if the teams in the trade are over the cap, the salaries have to be within 125% of each other. So we'd be taking back ~13-15 million dollars in salary back ourselves. That's a star player type contract. So that could either be a ton of money in bad contracts or a ton of money in a disgruntled star or who knows what teams would offer.

[RonArtest15]

Beal right now is a spot up shooter. It's no coincidence that he's flourishing with Wall back in the fold. AJ Price did not help space the floor like Wall does. There is no doubt that the reason Beal had a lot of his struggles early on was due to PG play. This is why it's important going forward that 1) beal works on learning to create his own shot and 2) the Wizards draft or bring in a PG (not sure we have the $ to do so in FA) who can run the offense if Wall is out for an extended period of time. I'm also not sure if Satoransky fills that void, but there is no way that AJ Price is back on the team next season so we will have a need for a back up PG.

[StillUnknown]

Beal right now is a spot up shooter. It's no coincidence that he's flourishing with Wall back in the fold. AJ Price did not help space the floor like Wall does. There is no doubt that the reason Beal had a lot of his struggles early on was due to PG play. This is why it's important going forward that 1) beal works on learning to create his own shot and 2) the Wizards draft or bring in a PG (not sure we have the $ to do so in FA) who can run the offense if Wall is out for an extended period of time. I'm also not sure if Satoransky fills that void, but there is no way that AJ Price is back on the team next season so we will have a need for a back up PG.

PG play didn't help, but his early struggles were more about adapting than anything else, he had a slow start at Florida as well before he figured it out.

[SuperBash]

To be honest, unless a deal next year for Okafor comes up where we get a great return, I'm planning on using Okafor for the Wizards during the 2014 season. He is incredibly useful and even valuable to this team in the front court. We'd really miss his rebounding next year if we trade him mid season. Especially if we're gunning for a playoff spot. Now if we drafted a young center this draft and he comes in looking like a great rebounder, then Okafor because a little more dispensible imo.

---------- Post added February-25th-2013 at 10:44 AM ----------

I don't want to draft a back up PG either. I'd rather spend the money on a seasoned vet to back up Wall. Not a, "vet," like AJ Price or Livingston but a older vet who would know his role. Someone like Calderon or Jason Kidd. Not saying them specifically but someone along those lines for the right price. With our 3 picks in this draft, I'd look at a PF/C, an athletic wing that can score, and a shooter.

[RonArtest15]

To be honest, unless a deal next year for Okafor comes up where we get a great return, I'm planning on using Okafor for the Wizards during the 2014 season. He is incredibly useful and even valuable to this team in the front court. We'd really miss his rebounding next year if we trade him mid season. Especially if we're gunning for a playoff spot. Now if we drafted a young center this draft and he comes in looking like a great rebounder, then Okafor because a little more dispensible imo.

---------- Post added February-25th-2013 at 10:44 AM ----------

I don't want to draft a back up PG either. I'd rather spend the money on a seasoned vet to back up Wall. Not a, "vet," like AJ Price or Livingston but a older vet who would know his role. Someone like Calderon or Jason Kidd. Not saying them specifically but someone along those lines for the right price. With our 3 picks in this draft, I'd look at a PF/C, an athletic wing that can score, and a shooter.

we just need a back up PG in here who understands how to space the floor within the flow of the offense. AJ Price can't do this and that was part of the reason for the team's struggles early on.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I understand that. But if we are starting to edge toward being competitive I really like the idea of us trading for another lotto pick in 2013, and resigning martell Webster. Is there a team out there that anyone can think up that would trade their lotto pick for Vesely, Ariza, and our 2014 1st?

If we can come out of this draft with one of Porter/Mohammed and one Noel/Zeller/Len/Austin I think that would really put us on the map.

Question that I hope someone can answer. What makes an expiring contract like Okefors next year so appealing to other teams in trades? I have never quite understood that.

If you do that, you become the 2000-01 Chicago Bulls, which might have been the greatest college team ever assembled.

Seriously, everyone who wants this team to get younger needs to stare at that roster for six hours straight.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Going Commando]

Beal's breakout game was really that Brooklyn game before Wall got back. He can score off the bounce.

Every team is going to take a big step back when their franchise player gets hurt for an extended period of time. When Wall goes down, there isn't a ton we can do. I don't really want to see us spend our pick on a PG.

I think we need to come away with a forward who can shoot and score or a high quality big man that can play the 5. The biggest problem in our future is the loss of Okafor.

I would love to get a second lotto pick, but I don't know if I'd be comfortable trading off the 2014 first. Then again, it might be selling high on an asset. If we could somehow come out of this draft class with Zeller and Otto Porter I think we'd secure our long term future and the work of rebuilding would pretty much be done.

[RonArtest15]

Beal's breakout game was really that Brooklyn game before Wall got back. He can score off the bounce.

Every team is going to take a big step back when their franchise player gets hurt for an extended period of time. When Wall goes down, there isn't a ton we can do. I don't really want to see us spend our pick on a PG.

I think we need to come away with a forward who can shoot and score or a high quality big man that can play the 5. The biggest problem in our future is the loss of Okafor.

I would love to get a second lotto pick, but I don't know if I'd be comfortable trading off the 2014 first. Then again, it might be selling high on an asset. If we could somehow come out of this draft class with Zeller and Otto Porter I think we'd secure our long term future and the work of rebuilding would pretty much be done.

We took more than a step back with wall out of the lineup. 5 wins, man. That's laughable. This is why it's important that the team has a capable backup PG on the roster next year. AJ Price proved that he's not the right guy to step in and start if the incumbent goes down. I'm not saying that we need someone in here who can keep the team playing .500 ball, but rather we need someone in here who can help this team stay competitive and play close to .400-.450 with Wall being out.

We don't have the coaching/talent of the Bulls...we need to be realistic and think about adding a player who can keep us in the mix even without our PG.

[nuposse87]

I'd honestly sign Nate Robinson next season, he's been solid for he Bulls. He has his "WTF" moments but he's been pretty good, and with Kirk Hinrich I assume returning+teague and Rose coming back he might be able to get the playing time he wants here. If Ariza continues his steady play he may do us a favor and opt out.

[Gator Bait]

My list of free agent targets:

Devin Harris (first guard off the bench)

Kyle Korver (shooter)

Anthony Morrow (Shooter)

Leandro Barbosa (first guard off the bench)

Corey Brewer (defensive stopper)

Will Bynum (backup PG)

Jarrett Jack (backup PG)

Carl Landry (first big off the bench)

Earl Clark (combo forward)

Tony Allen (first guard off the bench)

Jerryd Bayless (back up PG)

Beno Udrih (back up PG)

Mo Williams (back up PG)

[StillUnknown]

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/david_aldridge/02/25/morning-tip-trade-deadline-recap-kenneth-faried-stand-q-and-a-yao-ming/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt3b

L.A. CLIPPERS: The Clips stood pat, but not by their basketball people's choice. L.A. and Washington had a done deal Wednesday night that would have sent forward Trevor Ariza to the Clippers in exchange for Caron Butler, giving L.A. a long, defensive-oriented body to throw at the likes of Kevin Durant in the playoffs. (Butler, who still has an offseason home in the D.C. area, and who was loved by the locals, didn't have a problem returning to a non-Arenas Wizards locker room. He'd have been welcomed back as a much-needed offensive option, according to sources.)

But sources indicated that Clippers owner Donald Sterling nixed the deal Thursday morning, not wanting to gamble on the team's chemistry being affected in any way down the stretch. My interpretation: we don't want to do anything that could, in any way, be held against us by assistant general manager Chris Paul this summer if we don't get far in the postseason.

Either way, the Clips probably are just as well. If Paul couldn't convince Kevin Garnett to come West, there wasn't another game-changing deal out there.

[WALEOVECHKIN]

David Aldridge reported that Wiz-Clips had a Butler for Ariza deal but Sterling nixed it at the last moment:

L.A. CLIPPERS: The Clips stood pat, but not by their basketball people's choice. L.A. and Washington had a done deal Wednesday night that would have sent forward Trevor Ariza to the Clippers in exchange for Caron Butler, giving L.A. a long, defensive-oriented body to throw at the likes of Kevin Durant in the playoffs. (Butler, who still has an offseason home in the D.C. area, and who was loved by the locals, didn't have a problem returning to a non-Arenas Wizards locker room. He'd have been welcomed back as a much-needed offensive option, according to sources.)

But sources indicated that Clippers owner Donald Sterling nixed the deal Thursday morning, not wanting to gamble on the team's chemistry being affected in any way down the stretch. My interpretation: we don't want to do anything that could, in any way, be held against us by assistant general manager Chris Paul this summer if we don't get far in the postseason.

Either way, the Clips probably are just as well. If Paul couldn't convince Kevin Garnett to come West, there wasn't another game-changing deal out there.

[Going Commando]

We took more than a step back with wall out of the lineup. 5 wins, man. That's laughable. This is why it's important that the team has a capable backup PG on the roster next year. AJ Price proved that he's not the right guy to step in and start if the incumbent goes down. I'm not saying that we need someone in here who can keep the team playing .500 ball, but rather we need someone in here who can help this team stay competitive and play close to .400-.450 with Wall being out.

We don't have the coaching/talent of the Bulls...we need to be realistic and think about adding a player who can keep us in the mix even without our PG.

You find a vet to be a backup PG. We've got a need for a starting C coming up after next year. That's going to be a lot harder to fill in FA or through trade than backup PG will be.

[RonArtest15]

I'd honestly sign Nate Robinson next season, he's been solid for he Bulls. He has his "WTF" moments but he's been pretty good, and with Kirk Hinrich I assume returning+teague and Rose coming back he might be able to get the playing time he wants here. If Ariza continues his steady play he may do us a favor and opt out.

I honestly wouldn't mind Nate as a back up to Wall. He can put the ball in the hoop, he's not careless with the rock, and he's done a good job with the Bulls helping to keep things afloat (with Hinrich) until Rose is healthy.

AJ Price as a starter was a disaster. We need an upgrade at the back up PG spot in the worst way. Someone who can keep things reasonably steady if Wall misses time.

My list of free agent targets:

Devin Harris (first guard off the bench)

Kyle Korver (shooter)

Anthony Morrow (Shooter)

Leandro Barbosa (first guard off the bench)

Corey Brewer (defensive stopper)

Will Bynum (backup PG)

Jarrett Jack (backup PG)

Carl Landry (first big off the bench)

Earl Clark (combo forward)

Tony Allen (first guard off the bench)

Jerryd Bayless (back up PG)

Beno Udrih (back up PG)

Mo Williams (back up PG)

I have a feeling we'll bring Barbosa back. I'm sure Nene will be happy...he had a tough go of things in boston due to family problems and his knee. He'd be a good low-risk re-signing if they plan to try to bring him back on the team.

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/david_aldridge/02/25/morning-tip-trade-deadline-recap-kenneth-faried-stand-q-and-a-yao-ming/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt3b

Seemed like a lateral move to me. Both guys make relatively the same amount of $ and are both off the books in 2014. FWIW, I know there's a local tie w/ Butler...but I think Ariza is a better fit for THIS Wizards team.

[Destino]

I'd rather keep Ariza. His contract is essentially the same cost and duration but Ariza is a lot younger and a better defender. Not sure what an old Butler brings that Webster isn't already providing.

[RonArtest15]

I'd honestly sign Nate Robinson next season, he's been solid for he Bulls. He has his "WTF" moments but he's been pretty good, and with Kirk Hinrich I assume returning+teague and Rose coming back he might be able to get the playing time he wants here. If Ariza continues his steady play he may do us a favor and opt out.

My list of free agent targets:

Devin Harris (first guard off the bench)

Kyle Korver (shooter)

Anthony Morrow (Shooter)

Leandro Barbosa (first guard off the bench)

Corey Brewer (defensive stopper)

Will Bynum (backup PG)

Jarrett Jack (backup PG)

Carl Landry (first big off the bench)

Earl Clark (combo forward)

Tony Allen (first guard off the bench)

Jerryd Bayless (back up PG)

Beno Udrih (back up PG)

Mo Williams (back up PG)

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/david_aldridge/02/25/morning-tip-trade-deadline-recap-kenneth-faried-stand-q-and-a-yao-ming/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt3b

You find a vet to be a backup PG. We've got a need for a starting C coming up after next year. That's going to be a lot harder to fill in FA or through trade than backup PG will be.

We need a Vet that's going to be better than Pargo/Mack. PG play was one of the main reasons why we had only 5 wins before Wall was healthy. It's imperative that the back up 1 spot is upgraded going forward whether it's someone like Nate Robinson or trying to groom a rookie PG like Trey Burke (acquiring a 2nd 1st round pick) or bringing over Satoransky.

[SuperBash]

I do love Butler, tho. I was a freshman at Ohio U during one of the Cleveland/Wiz playoffs series and Butler hit a game winner (I think he traveled on the play, but whatever, so did LeBron). I made a Butler Jersey out of a white t shirt and wore it around campus. It was pretty fun but of course, they got the last laugh.

[Going Commando]

That sucks about Caron. I would have liked to get him back.

That might be something to shoot for in the offseason. Unless Ariza waives his player option. The salaries are pretty even and both would be expiring.

PG: Wall

SG: Beal

SF: Caron

PF: Nene

C: Okafor

With Zeller or Porter coming off the bench. Find a good vet backup PG and credible SF depth. You've got a load of PFs to come off the bench. I daresey that's a pretty good team and perhaps good enough to climb a little higher than a low seed.

[StillUnknown]

I'd rather keep Ariza. His contract is essentially the same cost and duration but Ariza is a lot younger and a better defender. Not sure what an old Butler brings that Webster isn't already providing.

I'm of a similar mind. As much as Ariza frustrates me on offense, he is by far our best perimeter defender.

[Going Commando]

I'd rather keep Ariza. His contract is essentially the same cost and duration but Ariza is a lot younger and a better defender. Not sure what an old Butler brings that Webster isn't already providing.

I think he's a better scorer although Ariza has been a great fit. He's got that triple threat offense where you can pass him the ball, isolate, and he can get you points. You're right that he would be a step dow defensively and he is older but it'd basically be a one year rental.

---------- Post added February-25th-2013 at 01:18 PM ----------

I'm of a similar mind. As much as Ariza frustrates me on offense, he is by far our best perimeter defender.

Yeah he's been outstanding on defense this year. It might actually be one of his finest season defensively. Though part of that could be how good Nene and Okafor have been anchoring the D.

He can hit open 3s too so he's not a total loss on that side.

If you're not planning on extending Ariza, it could make some sense to deal him for Caron for a year though. Trading defense for offense, particularly in the half court.

[Gator Bait]

I think I might be the biggest Caron Butler fan on this board...he was my favorite player while he was here, but no way I make that trade. As it's been pointed out, Ariza is the best perimeter defender on our team (that lacks good perimeter defense)...he is a must keep. I hope we re-sign him to a reasonable contract in two years when he is a free agent. Butler isn't close to the same player he was while he was here in Washington. I'd be open to bring him in as a FA to be the 8/9th player in the rotation, but that's about it.

[Hersh]

The Wizards don't need a small forward in Caron Butler who is on the downside of his career. That's another move that doesn't make any sense in the grand scheme of building a winner.

Same with the thought process of adding a second lottery pick next season. If anything, on draft day, the Wizards should look to trade this years pick, along with the expiring contracts that they will have, for an all-star caliber player if one is available. Since teams will be looking to clear cap space for 2014, a surprise player or two with longer contracts might be available.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Hersh

[RonArtest15]

I don't even know why Ernie Grunfeld would try to make that move in the first place? Butler is 5 years older and makes more money. Not to mention, he wouldn't bring nearly as much to the table for this specific Wizards team like Ariza does. I guess the one silver lining in all of this is that Donald Sterling is dumber than EG for turning down the trade.