The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Gator Bait]

Miami has always been the favorite. But if anyone aside from them is going to the finals, it's New York..

NY isn't a contender. They don't play perimeter defense and they are way too old. They are bound to have some injuries before playoff time. Miami is by far the front runner and after that it would be Chicago and then Indiana. Chicago is good without their best player; Rose isn't going to be the same Rose when he comes back, but he will definitely improve their team.

on another note....last night was very refreshing...probably my favorite game in the post Arenas era. I hate NY more than any other team (which made it pretty sweet) and the team played very well. Webster has really cemented himself as a legit rotation guy on a good team (which is why I unfortunately don't think we'll be able to keep him next year...he'll likely sign part of the midlevel with a contender) but he has really played well for us this year. I love his attitude and how he approaches the game. He's very mature and a good team player...really like the guy.

It was nice to see Ariza get back on track...I've always liked him. He gets a lot of flack on this board (justifiably) but he is also a really nice rotation player. Hopefully he keeps the hot shooting streak going.

As far as the draft is concerned....I was chatting with a coworker of mine who brought up a good point about Noel....he lacks offensive game, but playing along side John Wall, his offensive game will consist of alley oops and put backs. We could definitely use a replacement for Okafor so we can trade him at next year's deadline (expiring contract and solid starter in the front court) for future assets....maybe the SF we've been lacking since Caron Butler left.

---------- Post added February-7th-2013 at 01:13 PM ----------

NY isn't a contender. They don't play perimeter defense and they are way too old. They are bound to have some injuries before playoff time. Miami is by far the front runner and after that it would be Chicago and then Indiana. Chicago is good without their best player; Rose isn't going to be the same Rose when he comes back, but he will definitely improve their team.

on another note....last night was very refreshing...probably my favorite game in the post Arenas era. I hate NY more than any other team (which made it pretty sweet) and the team played very well. Webster has really cemented himself as a legit rotation guy on a good team (which is why I unfortunately don't think we'll be able to keep him next year...he'll likely sign part of the midlevel with a contender) but he has really played well for us this year. I love his attitude and how he approaches the game. He's very mature and a good team player...really like the guy.

It was nice to see Ariza get back on track...I've always liked him. He gets a lot of flack on this board (justifiably) but he is also a really nice rotation player. Hopefully he keeps the hot shooting streak going.

As far as the draft is concerned....I was chatting with a coworker of mine who brought up a good point about Noel....he lacks offensive game, but playing along side John Wall, his offensive game will consist of alley oops and put backs. We could definitely use a replacement for Okafor so we can trade him at next year's deadline (expiring contract and solid starter in the front court) for future assets....maybe the SF we've been lacking since Caron Butler left.

one more thing....not sure where you are coming up with Okafor being a great defensive 5.....he has been horrible most of the year on defense...he gets abused on a regular basis.

[Going Commando]

NY isn't a contender. They don't play perimeter defense and they are way too old. They are bound to have some injuries before playoff time. Miami is by far the front runner and after that it would be Chicago and then Indiana. Chicago is good without their best player; Rose isn't going to be the same Rose when he comes back, but he will definitely improve their team.

Indy doesn't have enough offense to get deep in the postseason. Chicago doesn't either without Rose. Chicago rolled over in the postseason each time Rose got hurt.

one more thing....not sure where you are coming up with Okafor being a great defensive 5.....he has been horrible most of the year on defense...he gets abused on a regular basis.

I completely disagree. I think he's actually been good on D most of the year and he's the key to our team's turnaround on D.

Let's put it to the group: who thinks Okafor has been horrible on D? Who thinks the opposite?

[Gator Bait]

Indy doesn't have enough offense to get deep in the postseason. Chicago doesn't either without Rose. Chicago rolled over in the postseason each time Rose got hurt.

here is the thing about basketball...just like all other sports....If your opponent scores less than you do...you win. You don't have to score 100 points per game to win...if you are a great defensive team (as most NBA champions are) you can win in the playoffs regardless of scoring. Indiana reminds me a lot of the Pistons team that won the finals several years back with Rip and Billups....they don't have any superstars, but everyone in the starting lineup is very good. They play very good defense and great team basketball on offense. I'm not saying they are going to represent the East in the finals, but they are very well rounded and could make some noise. They'd beat the Knicks in a 7 game series.

I completely disagree. I think he's actually been good on D most of the year and he's the key to our team's turnaround on D.

Let's put it to the group: who thinks Okafor has been horrible on D? Who thinks the opposite?

you need to go back and key in on Okafor then....anytime he faces a team with a decent big man, he gets tore up. I was excited when we traded him (because he is known as a defensive player) but his defense is actually not good. Nene has been a much better defender for us this year. I hate to use stats to prove a point in basketball because they are so misleading, but just look at the +/- of okafor (-50)....that's terrible. You can try to make the argument that we are a bad team in general, but if that was the case, why is Nene's +/- +63.

You really need to go to the games to understand...you can't really see it on TV...you need to go to the game and key in on one player for long periods of time...that's the only way you are truly able to tell who is and isn't a good defender. Ariza and Nene are the best two defenders on this team by far...isn't even close.

We play brooklyn Tomorrow...I'll be at the game....I guarantee you Brook Lopez busts Okafor's ass.

---------- Post added February-7th-2013 at 02:57 PM ----------

Chicago would beat the Knicks in a 7 game series as well....the knicks are not a good defensive team....their best defenders are 50 years old and come off the bench. I wouldn't be surprised if they get upset in the first round.

I need to add to my comments on our front court. I'm by no way saying Okafor is a bad player...I think he is an above average center when you consider his character/leadership, ability to be a 4th option in scoring (average around 10 points per game) and lately he has been rebounding well (which didn't happen the whole season); but he is not a good defender. Nene is the best defender we've had since Haywood.

Defense isn't about steals and blocks....it's about IQ, help defense, rotation, changing shots in the paint, and moving into passing lanes to deflect or steal passes. I don't think the casual NBA fan gets this....

Okafor is one of those guys who performs on a good team....he benefits by playing along side Nene. He isn't going to anchor your defense, but he isn't going to be a liability either.

our defense isn't good because of okafor, it is good because we play well as a team on defense....that's what makes defenses good...that's why the Heat won the NBA finals last year.....that's why the Pacers and Bulls are as good as they are without a super star....team defense.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Gator Bait

[SiCkSoULjA]

I like the +/- stat but you guys make it out more than what it is, I dont like the fact you are going too gage one person being on the floor at a certain time totally throwing away what anyone else on the team did or what the other team did which could have been a cold spell.

I think Okafor has been good and Nene has been ok on defense, now too your point I haven't went too a game this year and I applaud you into witnessing terrible basketball too support the team if you went too any of the first 35 games, so I can't say I can see what your seeing.

We have a team full off specialist and thats being nice if you want too call it that. But we have a team full of players that can only do 1 thing good with Nene being our most balanced player and I don't think he gives the team enough. Example Ariza good D horrible O, Wall quick is lighting but cant shoot. If everything is clicking and the team meshes perfectly like last night we are a good team. We need a star go to player a true leader someone you know is going too give you certain numbers night in and night out that you can count on.

[RonArtest15]

FWIW, Knicks are ranked 7th in team defense (Wizards, 8th)...but Miami, Indy, Chicago, and BK are all ranked higher.

If the long ball isn't falling for the Knicks, they'll resort to iso, iso, iso w/ Melo. Their whole offense is predicated off of making 3's. It's beating a dead horse, but I don't see them getting past Miami, Chi, or Indy. They'd be in a dogfight w/ Brooklyn. Their best bet to get out of the first round is to finish w/ a top-3 seed. After that, they're getting bounced. No question.

[Gator Bait]

I like the +/- stat but you guys make it out more than what it is, I dont like the fact you are going too gage one person being on the floor at a certain time totally throwing away what anyone else on the team did or what the other team did which could have been a cold spell.

I think Okafor has been good and Nene has been ok on defense, now too your point I haven't went too a game this year and I applaud you into witnessing terrible basketball too support the team if you went too any of the first 35 games, so I can't say I can see what your seeing.

We have a team full off specialist and thats being nice if you want too call it that. But we have a team full of players that can only do 1 thing good with Nene being our most balanced player and I don't think he gives the team enough. Example Ariza good D horrible O, Wall quick is lighting but cant shoot. If everything is clicking and the team meshes perfectly like last night we are a good team. We need a star go to player a true leader someone you know is going too give you certain numbers night in and night out that you can count on.

first of all...you must not have read my post thoroughly. I said that I hate to use stats to back a point...but a lopsided +/- like that usually doesn't lie. The only way to judge defense is by seeing what a person does when the ball isn't near them..that is the most important aspect of defense...and how they react when the ball comes toward the player they are guarding (or the zone they are responsible for)...most of the time you can't do that on TV. The next time you go to a game...pick one player and key in on them for a whole quarter (on both offense and defense) then you will see what I'm talking about.

There are a few reasons this team isn't good this year. The main reason is injuries (which is a poor excuse because everyone has injuries...Rose has been out all year and Chicago is still good). Second reason is rebounding....we are the worst rebounding team in the NBA. We are one of the best defensive teams in the NBA, but we give up 2nd/3rd/4th chances with lack of rebounding and are bound to give up points that way. The third reason is because we can't score. As you said, we lack the go-to guy who we can count on to score 20+ points per game. I think Beal will be that guy in his 2nd or 3rd year, but we couldn't count on him as a 19 years old to lead the team in scoring his first year.

Nene is definitely the most well rounded player on the team. He does everything well besides rebounding (again...our Achilles heal). Wall is a revolving door on defense and can't shoot...the rest of his game is good. Crawford is a selfish shot jacker and one of the worst defenders in NBA history. Webster is a very good distance shooter, but doesn't do anything else at a high level. So you are definitely right....we lack well rounded players. I think you can win with a bunch of specialists, but you have to be better as a team in rebounding and you have to have someone as a go to scoring threat.

so in conclusion....I agree with most of what you said...besides Okafor being a good defender. I've got season tickets...if you'd like to go to a game...I'll give you a really good price...then you can see what I mean about locking in on one player for long periods of time and seeing their deficiencies you can't see on TV.

---------- Post added February-7th-2013 at 03:40 PM ----------

FWIW, Knicks are ranked 7th in team defense (Wizards, 8th)...but Miami, Indy, Chicago, and BK are all ranked higher.

not sure where you are getting your defensive rankings from (I look at FG% allowed) I think that is the best stat when it comes to defense. You can be a horrible rebounding team (like us) but a very good defensive team (like us) and give up a ton of points. The knicks are currently ranked #18 in FG% allowed. the Wizards are #7, Indy #1, Chicago #2, Miami #6, and BK #24

If the long ball isn't falling for the Knicks, they'll resort to iso, iso, iso w/ Melo. Their whole offense is predicated off of making 3's. It's beating a dead horse, but I don't see them getting past Miami, Chi, or Indy. They'd be in a dogfight w/ Brooklyn. Their best bet to get out of the first round is to finish w/ a top-3 seed. After that, they're getting bounced. No question.

agree 100%....no team with Carmelo Anthony as their best player will ever win a championship. Carmelo is one of the best scorers in the game (maybe even the best....considering he can be elite inside and out) but he doesn't defend and he doesn't score efficient enough to justify the possessions he consumes. He's actually kind of like the SF version of Gil.

---------- Post added February-7th-2013 at 03:43 PM ----------

Edited February 7, 2013 by Gator Bait

[Destino]

What about Earl Clark, currently with the Lakers, as a potential replacement for Webster or Ariza if we lose one? He's showing he can hit threes and he's a huge SF that rebounds well. He needs assists to score but that's what the Wizards are all about. Not an exciting signing but could be a solid addition with versatility.

[nuposse87]

He's been in like 160 career NBA games...and is shooting..I think 48% from 3 point land...that seems a bit unsustainable. He'll prolly command some money...but with injuries the Lakers have he'll be forced into more playing time so we can get a good idea of what he's like over a larger sample size. He's 25...he could get better. I liked him in college, but I wouldn't overpay for him. If I'm the Lakers, they prolly know they can't afford to keep him, maybe we can make a trade for him?

Clark+filler for...Ariza+Vesely?

[Destino]

Wall made Shaqtin a fool. Picked a bad time to tie his shoe.

Roger Mason has them all beat IMO.

[Going Commando]

Anyone see Shabazz or Zeller play last night? I was at a bar and could barely follow the games. I know Zeller barely shot the ball and the finish to both games was wild. Couldn't break them down though.

[RonArtest15]

first of all...you must not have read my post thoroughly. I said that I hate to use stats to back a point...but a lopsided +/- like that usually doesn't lie. The only way to judge defense is by seeing what a person does when the ball isn't near them..that is the most important aspect of defense...and how they react when the ball comes toward the player they are guarding (or the zone they are responsible for)...most of the time you can't do that on TV. The next time you go to a game...pick one player and key in on them for a whole quarter (on both offense and defense) then you will see what I'm talking about.

There are a few reasons this team isn't good this year. The main reason is injuries (which is a poor excuse because everyone has injuries...Rose has been out all year and Chicago is still good). Second reason is rebounding....we are the worst rebounding team in the NBA. We are one of the best defensive teams in the NBA, but we give up 2nd/3rd/4th chances with lack of rebounding and are bound to give up points that way. The third reason is because we can't score. As you said, we lack the go-to guy who we can count on to score 20+ points per game. I think Beal will be that guy in his 2nd or 3rd year, but we couldn't count on him as a 19 years old to lead the team in scoring his first year.

Nene is definitely the most well rounded player on the team. He does everything well besides rebounding (again...our Achilles heal). Wall is a revolving door on defense and can't shoot...the rest of his game is good. Crawford is a selfish shot jacker and one of the worst defenders in NBA history. Webster is a very good distance shooter, but doesn't do anything else at a high level. So you are definitely right....we lack well rounded players. I think you can win with a bunch of specialists, but you have to be better as a team in rebounding and you have to have someone as a go to scoring threat.

so in conclusion....I agree with most of what you said...besides Okafor being a good defender. I've got season tickets...if you'd like to go to a game...I'll give you a really good price...then you can see what I mean about locking in on one player for long periods of time and seeing their deficiencies you can't see on TV.

---------- Post added February-7th-2013 at 03:40 PM ----------

not sure where you are getting your defensive rankings from (I look at FG% allowed) I think that is the best stat when it comes to defense. You can be a horrible rebounding team (like us) but a very good defensive team (like us) and give up a ton of points. The knicks are currently ranked #18 in FG% allowed. the Wizards are #7, Indy #1, Chicago #2, Miami #6, and BK #24

agree 100%....no team with Carmelo Anthony as their best player will ever win a championship. Carmelo is one of the best scorers in the game (maybe even the best....considering he can be elite inside and out) but he doesn't defend and he doesn't score efficient enough to justify the possessions he consumes. He's actually kind of like the SF version of Gil.

---------- Post added February-7th-2013 at 03:43 PM ----------

I was just going off of PPG allowed.

[Going Commando]

I said it on RealGM, wanted to repeat it here: I think Shabazz is getting his draft stock unnaturally depressed by random events this season. First is the injury this summer that kept him out of team activities early. Then the witch hunt from the NCAA that kept him away from the team during the first part of the season. Then came the flu and losing 15 pounds so he's not going to be totally right. He's basically had no opportunity to gel and become part of that team and it's made him look bad as a result.

I think Shabazz slips to maybe four or five in the draft when I believe he should absolutely go first or second overall. And I think he's going to end up being a much, much better pro than a lot of people who are getting down on him suspect. I think he's a lock to become a 25 PPG scorer on good shooting %s and I think he'll drop 20 PPG as a rookie and make a lot of people look dumb. I think by this time next season, he's going to be looking like the ROTY and a future star and the fans of the teams that took the Marcus Smarts or Ben McLemores or any other perimeter player over Shabazz are going to be thinking to themselves, "why the **** did we take this guy instead of Shabazz?"

That said, I take Nerlens over him. Those guys have been the two studs of the class all along. I might take Zeller over him too, I really want a big man. Haven't settled on that position though because I hate to get away from BPA and Shabazz would be the BPA over Zeller for me.

Another point in Shabazz's favor is he fills an IMMEDIATE need within this construction. He helps us win next season, fills in the spot for Martell, keeps Ariza on the bench. Oak's only 30. If we've got the money we can probably sign him for a one or two year deal after his contract expires if we still need a big. You could keep this front court of Nene and Oak around a while longer, it does work pretty well. Wall and Shabazz is a pretty lethal pair of ball handlers and creative offensive players for a half court set and throw Beal into the mix as a finisher and you've got a potent offense. Shabazz can spot up and drain 3s from the corner and the FT line extended so he's going to get good shots in our offense. And when defenses key on Wall, Beal, or Nene, pass the ball to Shabazz and let him go off. Four good offensive starters. That would be nice.

And after you draft Shabazz, you can probably deal Crawford IMO. Bring in that veteran true PG to backup Wall and get a more balanced group of guards.

---------- Post added February-8th-2013 at 08:42 AM ----------

Shabazz would give us the offensive juice to put us over the top in the short term IMO. Make us go from a fringe 8th or 9th place in the conference to a solidified mid seed playoff team. He'd give us the immediate ability to clamp down those close wins on nights when it feels like we don't have enough gas in the tank offensively to get the W.

[Gator Bait]

No way Shabazz scores 20 ppg his first year in the NBA. He is only putting up 20 ppg in college. Kevin Durant and LeBron James scored 20 ppg their rookie years....Shabazz isn't even close to being in their league.

[Going Commando]

No way Shabazz scores 20 ppg his first year in the NBA. He is only putting up 20 ppg in college. Kevin Durant and LeBron James scored 20 ppg their rookie years....Shabazz isn't even close to being in their league.

So did Tyreke Evans. Tyreke scored 17 PPG in college. Shabazz is the most skilled and aggressive scorer to come out in a while. He's going to probably get drafted by a bad team looking for a #1 scorer and he'll get his opportunities and score immediately.

[Gator Bait]

So did Tyreke Evans. Tyreke scored 17 PPG in college. Shabazz is the most skilled and aggressive scorer to come out in a while. He's going to probably get drafted by a bad team looking for a #1 scorer and he'll get his opportunities and score immediately.

good pull on Tyreke, but I still don't see Shabazz scoring 20 per game. I'm a Shabazz guy, and would love to have him here (although he is a 2 guard in the NBA and that really doesn't make sense to draft a 2 guard two years in a row).

Back to Evans....interesting that his scoring numbers have gone down every year. I haven't seen him play a ton, but when I do see him play...I like his game. His FG% is up this year. I wonder what this guy's ceiling is? I think he'd be a good fit on our team.

on the Wizards draft....at this point...I'm just thinking we should go with the BPA....no matter what position. We need more talent on this team...when it comes to the lottery...I think you have to go with the BPA every time. Remember the Irving/Williams draft....it was a toss up who was going to go #1 overall...they were both viewed as the same caliber player coming out. Cavs definitely made the correct decision...can you imagine if they would have taken William. Speaking of Williams...I still think he can play...I'd be intrigued in trading for him. His stock is rock bottom...I wonder if we could work out a deal with Minnesota centered around Vesely/Singleton and a future lottery protected 1st?

[Going Commando]

good pull on Tyreke, but I still don't see Shabazz scoring 20 per game. I'm a Shabazz guy, and would love to have him here (although he is a 2 guard in the NBA and that really doesn't make sense to draft a 2 guard two years in a row).

Back to Evans....interesting that his scoring numbers have gone down every year. I haven't seen him play a ton, but when I do see him play...I like his game. His FG% is up this year. I wonder what this guy's ceiling is? I think he'd be a good fit on our team.

on the Wizards draft....at this point...I'm just thinking we should go with the BPA....no matter what position. We need more talent on this team...when it comes to the lottery...I think you have to go with the BPA every time. Remember the Irving/Williams draft....it was a toss up who was going to go #1 overall...they were both viewed as the same caliber player coming out. Cavs definitely made the correct decision...can you imagine if they would have taken William. Speaking of Williams...I still think he can play...I'd be intrigued in trading for him. His stock is rock bottom...I wonder if we could work out a deal with Minnesota centered around Vesely/Singleton and a future lottery protected 1st?

Shabazz reminds me of a stronger Manu. Shabazz has the weight and strength of a SF but the height of a big SG. Supposedly he's got long arms, close to a 7' wingspan. I think his standing reach will probably end up being pretty good. He's going to play both positions in the NBA IMO. It won't matter much on offense, more for defense.

Tyreke's ceiling is a bit limited by him not having a home position. He's not really fast enough or a good enough passer to play PG. He's not quite big enough to play SF full time. He gets pigeon-holed at SG as a result but he's not really a reliable enough distance shooter to be a natural fit. If he were 6'8, at his weight, he'd be an obvious SF. Kind of like Shabazz, although Shabazz is much more of a shooter and a much worse passer.

I think we could start Shabazz at SF here. Wall and Beal can defend most any SG and Nene and Okafor is a big front court. Shabazz is a pretty bad defender though. More of an effort problem than anything.

I agree about taking BPA. I think the Irving/Williams draft was a little more clear cut than our situation would be. The Cavs needed help at every position so they were fine taking the BPA. If the BPA is a pure guard for us, it's going to be hard to get the guy a lot of minutes behind Wall and Beal. Might have to trade him after we pick him.

Yeah I would deal for Derrick Williams. I'd definitely deal for him if the package was built around Vesely and Singleton or Booker. He can shoot the three ball from the PF spot plus he can run pick and roll. I don't know how he'd be defensively, but he could fill in one of the missing pieces on offense. And yeah, his stock does feel like it's at rock bottom.

Another player I'd be interested in is one of the Jazz bigs. We can't afford Jefferson or Millsap, but if Utah put Kanter or Favors on the block, I'd definitely be interested. Favors would probably be costly since he's developed really nicely. I think Utah is grooming him to be the centerpiece and star down the road. Kanter might be cheap though. And Kanter could be a true 5 for us and a long term replacement for Okafor. He's like 260 some pounds and he rebounds. What I've seen from him in spot duty has been pretty good this season. He's a high energy player that's got a ton of strength and he can score inside and also hit mid range jumpers. He could play the same role Okafor does.

[nuposse87]

As far as comparison go...I see some Caron Butler in Shabazz...not necessarily a bad thing. His standing reach is greater than Caron's so he could definitely play SF. He has an excellent jumper for his age and could easily get 17+ next John. The kid also passes out when he has no shot, so it isn't like he's a complete shot jacker, he's gettin an unwarranted rep.

[Going Commando]

I'd probably go something like Seraphin + Crawford + something like a top 8 protected 2014 pick for Kanter or Favors and the Jazz 2013 first (currently 18th or 19th overall).

Jazz need a scoring guard and Seraphin keeps their big man depth up to snuff. I'd also be willing to include Vesely or Booker. The first round pick just needs to be protected enough in 2014 to make sure we don't lose out on any potential stars, but really I expect us to contend for the playoffs next year and get out of the lottery anyway.

That first round pick from the Jazz isn't worth much. Mainly I want it for positioning purposes. We've got two or three second rounders or something. I'd use that other first round pick as trade fodder. Maybe move it for a veteran. Maybe trade it to move back into second half of the lottery if someone I really liked was slipping. Maybe a true forward like Bennett, Porter, McAdoo, or Mitchell. Maybe a banger like Plumlee.

[Gator Bait]

Shabazz reminds me of a stronger Manu. Shabazz has the weight and strength of a SF but the height of a big SG. Supposedly he's got long arms, close to a 7' wingspan. I think his standing reach will probably end up being pretty good. He's going to play both positions in the NBA IMO. It won't matter much on offense, more for defense.

Playing in the East with guys like LeBron and Carmelo, I want to have a more traditional (larger) 3. In general....I view SG and SF as wings...but that isn't the case for every team depending on the teams you face. With the lineup of Wall/Beal/Shabazz....no one has a prayer of slowing down LeBron or Melo....I hoped that Singleton would develop into the defensive stopper he was supposed to be when drafted and I still don't understand why Wittman had him on the bench so long. We aren't making the playoffs this year....I think we'd be best suited to have big minutes for both Singleton and Vesely....if you absolutely aren't going to play them...stick them in the D-league or trade them!

Tyreke's ceiling is a bit limited by him not having a home position. He's not really fast enough or a good enough passer to play PG. He's not quite big enough to play SF full time. He gets pigeon-holed at SG as a result but he's not really a reliable enough distance shooter to be a natural fit. If he were 6'8, at his weight, he'd be an obvious SF. Kind of like Shabazz, although Shabazz is much more of a shooter and a much worse passer.

I think Tyreke is best suited as a combo guard (3rd guard on the roster) brought in to score against bench guys (kind of like a lou Willliams role from when he was with Philly) He could be the first guard off the bench, still log 30 minutes per game and give you between 15-20 points each game. He seems to be lost in translation with Sac-town. I'd love to trade for him, but I'm not willing to part with the lottery pick for him alone, and I don't think we have any other assets we are willing to part with to get him.

Another player I'd be interested in is one of the Jazz bigs. We can't afford Jefferson or Millsap, but if Utah put Kanter or Favors on the block, I'd definitely be interested. Favors would probably be costly since he's developed really nicely. I think Utah is grooming him to be the centerpiece and star down the road. Kanter might be cheap though. And Kanter could be a true 5 for us and a long term replacement for Okafor. He's like 260 some pounds and he rebounds. What I've seen from him in spot duty has been pretty good this season. He's a high energy player that's got a ton of strength and he can score inside and also hit mid range jumpers. He could play the same role Okafor does

unfortunately I would think Favors is close to untouchable there and like you said, Jefferson would be too expensive when we already have the type of money invested in our front court with Nene and Okafor. I think Millsap would be the guy to go after, but again...we don't have any assets to trade for him.

Kanter hasn't shown me enough to trade real value for him. In the short term...I think we just need to grab the BPA in the draft (although I'd like to trade for a starting SF...as someone else pointed out here earlier...I don't think there will be anyone available that makes sense).

Although this draft isn't very good, I think any player we get should be able to improve the team and make the 9 man rotation, whether that is Noel, Shabbaz, Zeller or whoever.

---------- Post added February-8th-2013 at 12:22 PM ----------

I'd probably go something like Seraphin + Crawford + something like a top 8 protected 2014 pick for Kanter or Favors and the Jazz 2013 first (currently 18th or 19th overall).

Jazz need a scoring guard and Seraphin keeps their big man depth up to snuff. I'd also be willing to include Vesely or Booker. The first round pick just needs to be protected enough in 2014 to make sure we don't lose out on any potential stars, but really I expect us to contend for the playoffs next year and get out of the lottery anyway.

That first round pick from the Jazz isn't worth much. Mainly I want it for positioning purposes. We've got two or three second rounders or something. I'd use that other first round pick as trade fodder. Maybe move it for a veteran. Maybe trade it to move back into second half of the lottery if someone I really liked was slipping. Maybe a true forward like Bennett, Porter, McAdoo, or Mitchell. Maybe a banger like Plumlee.

no way they take that trade....I don't think anyone in the league values shot jacking Crawford much. Vesely and Booker have next to no trade value. Seraphin could be a really good player if he had a decent big man coach...I'd love to see him work with the dream this offseason! I really don't want to trade Kevin though...I think he could develop into a really nice player...it take Bigs a long time to develop. Right now I think he has a much higher value for us in the future rather than trade value.

---------- Post added February-8th-2013 at 12:25 PM ----------

I'd like to see us try and trade for a late Lottery pick to get Mason Plumlee...I see him as a poor man's Noah and can see him averaging 8-8 as a floor and 20-10 as his ceiling. So if he settles somewhere in between (I think 12-10 is realistic) he'd be a nice rotation player and provide some much needed rebounding!

[nuposse87]

I'm just curious...what SF has stopped LBJ? I understand the "undersize" concern against LBJ, but he plays a lot of 4 now...We ought to be drafting on what would make us better, not on how to check others that we really can't check right now. Utah isn't giving up any of their young bigs either. They're too damn good. They'll let one of Jefferson or Milsap walk, and ride those rookie contracts until they gotta pay em. One thing I don't understand, is why Gordon Hayward doesn't start for them anymore.

I'll give tyreke this, he's playing waaay better this year than seasons past. He's shooting 36% from 3, he's a career 25% 3 pt shooter before this season....something to be careful of. Someone will overpay for him, prolly Grunfeld, and I'll continue to slam my head on my desk.

[Hersh]

Another player I'd be interested in is one of the Jazz bigs. We can't afford Jefferson or Millsap, but if Utah put Kanter or Favors on the block, I'd definitely be interested. Favors would probably be costly since he's developed really nicely. I think Utah is grooming him to be the centerpiece and star down the road. Kanter might be cheap though. And Kanter could be a true 5 for us and a long term replacement for Okafor. He's like 260 some pounds and he rebounds. What I've seen from him in spot duty has been pretty good this season. He's a high energy player that's got a ton of strength and he can score inside and also hit mid range jumpers. He could play the same role Okafor does.

I would be stunned if Utah traded any of their youth. I think Jefferson and Millsap are both FAs after this season and they are going to have massive cap space to go along with moving Favors and Kanter into the starting roles. Unfortunately, it's highly unlikely we land any player in Free Agency worth much given the Wizards are maxed out next year.

[Gator Bait]

I'm just curious...what SF has stopped LBJ? I understand the "undersize" concern against LBJ, but he plays a lot of 4 now...We ought to be drafting on what would make us better, not on how to check others that we really can't check right now. Utah isn't giving up any of their young bigs either. They're too damn good. They'll let one of Jefferson or Milsap walk, and ride those rookie contracts until they gotta pay em. One thing I don't understand, is why Gordon Hayward doesn't start for them anymore.

When you have two stars of teams in your conference who are large SFs...you have to have some sort of answer to attempt to slow them down. Gordon Hayward has been hurt for a while...that's why he isn't starting...he'll be in the starting lineup soon though.

---------- Post added February-8th-2013 at 12:37 PM ----------

I would be stunned if Utah traded any of their youth. I think Jefferson and Millsap are both FAs after this season and they are going to have massive cap space to go along with moving Favors and Kanter into the starting roles. Unfortunately, it's highly unlikely we land any player in Free Agency worth much given the Wizards are maxed out next year.

we could offer a midlevel exception next year if I'm not mistaken. Not going to land a superstar...but you can definitely get a good rotation guy with that. Both Millsap and Jefferson are under 30 and highly productive...so they will definitely be north of the 8 million per year range, so we won't be players in FA concerning them. I think we should use part of the midlevel to re-sign Webster.

[Going Commando]

As far as comparison go...I see some Caron Butler in Shabazz...not necessarily a bad thing. His standing reach is greater than Caron's so he could definitely play SF. He has an excellent jumper for his age and could easily get 17+ next John. The kid also passes out when he has no shot, so it isn't like he's a complete shot jacker, he's gettin an unwarranted rep.

I can see some Caron. I could see Shabazz being extremely effective if he developed that triple threat offense too. Shabazz is faster than Caron IMO, probably not quite as strong. Caron's a tank. Maybe Caron meets Ginobli. He's an interesting player.

Us and Cleveland are probably the only teams that could draft Shabazz and he wouldn't get to take 17 shots a game. If Orlando or Charlotte got him, he would be their offense and could probably score 25 a night on like 40% shooting with a sky high usage rating.

I think we'd be one of the better fits for Shabazz. I think you're right that he could get 17+ next to Wall and his efficiency would be a lot better if he played here. Shabazz could be very dangerous playing along side a good pass first PG. John would be getting him a ton of easy shots and he wouldn't be scared to take them. The whole Wizards team aside from Crawford and Seraphin has a pass first mentality really. They'll work the ball around forever until somebody is completely open or the clock runs out. Shabazz has that killer instinct that can be nice to have so that the ball doesn't become a hot potato. His aggression and activity level is fantastic. He works his butt off the entire 35 seconds to get free. Unlike at UCLA, if he were here, the rest of the team would find him.

[Gator Bait]

This brings up another question...how much is Martel Webster worth? I think he's in the range of 3-4 million a year. One of the best three point shooters in the NBA this year and only made 1.6 million....he will get a raise. Only 26 years old.

I'd give him a three year 10 million dollar deal.

[nuposse87]

brandon rush got 2 year 4 mil a year, with similar shooting numbers and efficiency. At that price, it seems like a steal for us. I'd look to offload Ariza if we could and give him a 3 year deal at 4-4.5 mil a year with a player option being the final year.

Oh and Melo's standing reach is 8'9.5 while LBJ's is 8'10. Shabazz's is 8'8. It'd be a problem against LBJ, but I think Shabazz has better hops then Melo. So again, he isn't at a terrible disadvantage for the 3 spot. LBJ and Melo are the only SFs in the league that are strong enough to check each other anyways.

btw, carmelo anthony has a 33.5 inch MAX VERT....that is awful. I had no clue he was THAT fat.