The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Popeman38]

Hey, we are only 11 games out of the 8th spot!

[Going Commando]

What a difference a player can make?

This might seem silly, but I wonder if the success of the other first rounders or DC rookie phenoms lit a fire under Wall because he has been good before, but the winning even with him as been pretty scarce.

Wall came out immediately successful. Really unprecedentedly successful. He was setting a Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson pace as far as scoring and assisting goes. Only player since the Oscar to get 9 assists in his first three games. His rookie season was probably topped only by CP3 as far as recent PGs. He was a steal away from his first triple double in his home debut, probably one of the greatest performances by a rookie PG ever. Didn't matter, by his sixth game he got his first triple double. The only other player who got a triple double with 6 steals on top of it in his first 6 games was Magic. He was an absolute phenom. The only reason he wasn't the ROTY was a quirk in the ROTY rules that let Blake Griffin be classified as a rookie even though he was drafted the year before and had spent an entire year being a pro already.

But people fell asleep on Wall (myself included) because the team was struggling so badly. I don't think people appreciated just how bad the team was around him. During those first two seasons, John didn't play with a single other player who is currently starting for another team. He only played 9 games with Nene at the end of last year--the only guy starting for the team this season from those first two years. Very few of John's teammates from those two teams are even on an NBA roster except for the young guys that came in with him that are still here. I'd argue John's best teammates that he played with for an extended span were probably Booker and Kirk Hinrich...

That's horrific. John was surrounded entirely by washed up vets, detrimental knuckleheads (Blatche, Young, McGee), and developmental players less experienced than him. The roster got disastrously young and teams that young can not win in the NBA. There was 100% turnover from the moment John was drafted until now. He's the longest tenured Wizard! At just under 2.5 seasons!

Now he has legit NBA veteran players around him and the developmental guys that came in with him have started to grow into real NBA players too. Nene, Okafor, Martell, and Ariza could all make most other NBA teams and Nene and Oak would start for most teams around the league. Jordan has grown into a solid NBA role player. Seraphin is getting there. Book is decent when he actually plays. Price seems like a decent backup PG. Ves has his moments though he's still very much an infant talent. And Beal is looking like a legit second star and running mate for John that might even end up being a better player than John in the end. The organization around him is in an entirely different place. It's gone from having no other quality NBA players around John to at least six, maybe seven with a few more developing.

We were in such a huge hole when we drafted John. The Arenas contract and situation was an absolute albatross. The Blatche extension was an albatross. The talent dump of Jamison and Caron yielded absolutely nothing in return in terms of players because Josh Howard got hurt immediately and barely ever saw the court. Nick Young and JaVale were morons forced into huge roles because of an utter lack of veteran presence on the team. And the Miller/Foye trade was an abject disaster when that was an opportunity to get a long term piece for Wall to play with even before he got here. It took two years for us to dig our way out of those mistakes.

Every young star needs talent around him, but a pass first PG even more so. I don't think any other highly touted young PG has had anything close to that kind of roster hell around them.

Edited January 19, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[SuperBash]

Wall came out immediately successful. Really unprecedentedly successful. He was setting a Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson pace as far as scoring and assisting goes. Only player since the Oscar to get 9 assists in his first three games. His rookie season was probably topped only by CP3 as far as recent PGs. He was a steal away from his first triple double in his home debut, probably one of the greatest performances by a rookie PG ever. Didn't matter, by his sixth game he got his first triple double. The only other player who got a triple double with 6 steals on top of it in his first 6 games was Magic. He was an absolute phenom. The only reason he wasn't the ROTY was a quirk in the ROTY rules that let Blake Griffin be classified as a rookie even though he was drafted the year before and had spent an entire year being a pro already.

C'mon man! We got 8 wins now! Fix that sig!

[Going Commando]

Damn I wish Wall was ready at the beginning of the season. It sucks that we have to wait until next year to compete for the playoffs but it's another chance to add a nice piece in the lottery this year. I'm exciting to watch this TEAM develop, because fellas, we got a real team now.

The draft pick is the silver lining you have to focus on. Think about that and ignore the presence of EG and like Still said, that's how you can stay positive and enjoy the team.

In the end, I'm wondering if Wall's injury won't be a blessing in disguise because it's probably going to yield a high lottery pick. And it gave him a chance to watch the game from the coach's perspective.

Wall + Beal + Nene is a good core when it fully matures but the problem is Nene's age. Nene is not going to be a long term member of that big 3 construction, he's so much older than Wall and Beal. But when those three are together, you're not going to be bad enough to get another lotto pick most likely. This lotto pick will hopefully be an opportunity to add a high quality long term piece that can be the third member of a big 3 when Nene is too old. Maybe even an outright upgrade over Nene. Either we spend the pick ourselves on someone good or we trade it for a young potential star.

Wall

Beal

X

Nene

X

Looks pretty good if you make the X at SF Shabazz or the X at C Nerlens/Zeller. Or DeMarcus Cousins.

That wouldn't just be some late seed in the East. It would be one of the better starting lineups and have a shot at contention by the time it matured.

[SuperBash]

We just can't strike out on this lottery pick. I'm almost inclined to lean towards picking a low upside/high floor type of player that can contribute early and often. But we're a long ways away from the draft.

[Going Commando]

C'mon man! We got 8 wins now! Fix that sig!

I'm thinking of taking it down now that the team is playing so much better with Wall back. I'm not feeling that negative about it any more.

But I'm a little superstitious. After we went through that early season crucible, I thought for sure we must have hit rock bottom. I'm afraid if I take it down thinking we're clear of it, something horrible will happen and it'll be back to the start.

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 10:34 AM ----------

We just can't strike out on this lottery pick. I'm almost inclined to lean towards picking a low upside/high floor type of player that can contribute early and often. But we're a long ways away from the draft.

Yeah we absolutely have to make this pick count. BBall IQ has to be such an important factor in anyone we pick. He must be smart as hell because that's the safest way he'll be able to contribute right off like Beal has. Plus we've got a nice mix of high IQ players right now with Oak, Nene, Beal, etc. We rack up assists and have good ball movement between them. I don't want to throw a wrench in that with a dumb player who can't pull his weight in team ball. No Nick Youngs. That's why I'm so interested in guys like Nerlens and Zeller.

But yeah, you're right, the draft is a long ways away. I could see some of the top underclassmen like Zeller or even Nerlens wanting to go back for another year. That would suck.

[Going Commando]

James Michael McAdoo playing well so far today. Len hasn't been super active yet. I'd like to see him finish with a big second half.

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 01:36 PM ----------

McAdoo just owned Len for that offensive rebound. He's been outplaying Len so far. Len still needs to get stronger.

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 01:40 PM ----------

Other noteworthy prospects playing today:

- Nerlens is on ESPNU at 9:00 (Poythress too).

- Otto Porter is on at 6:00

- Shabazz is on CBS at 4:00

- Marcus Smart and LeBryan Nash are on at 2:00 on ESPN 2

- Ben McLemore is on CBS at 2:00

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 01:41 PM ----------

Nice block from Len on McAdoo but he's letting McAdoo outposition him for boards. Letting McAdoo get into the paint too easily. Good quickness and recovery on Len's part but it looks like he's lacking strength.

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 01:50 PM ----------

You got to body McAdoo up. Push him out of the paint because he is just creeping in there for deep position and getting offensive boards and baskets around the rim.

[nuposse87]

We ought to just assume we're not getting a top 3 pick, especially if this winning nonsense continues, lol. A SF that can make 3s is our biggest need. Ariza was hot last night and was one of the reasons we won, we all know, he usually isn't that good from 3 pt land, as evident by his performance at the kings. The only PF that would make a difference for us would be Noel. Bennet's defense is apparently lacking, although his offense is steady.

Assuming we pick 6-14 I'd prioritize players like so:

1. Poythress

2. Bennett

3. Porter

4. Gobert

5. T. Mitchell

With Minny in shambles with injuries they might be willing to trade quality for quantity. I wouldn't include Seraphin in any such proposals if he continues to show he's worth a damn. Also, Nene isn't going to get any quicker, but he is big enough to play center, so if we do end up taking a SF in the draft we could have a potential small ball lineup of:

Wall

Beal

Webster/Poythress(If he's ready)

D. Williams

Nene

That would a very effective lineup in todays NBA climate. Lots of wingspan and speed (sans Nene).

[Going Commando]

I'm a little disappointed in Alex Len. I really like his physical tools and his shot blocking ability. I think he's got good NBA potential with his length and quickness. But I was hoping he'd be farther along than he is. He's going to be a big project IMO.

[nuposse87]

Oh and No way Noel stays another year, he's going number 2 at the minimum, he'd go like 5 next year, people know they'll be down 4 slots with next years class, at least.

[Going Commando]

1.) Shabazz

2.) Noel

3.) Zeller

4.) Bennett

5.) Len

6.) McLemore (ideally to trade)

7.) Austin

8.) Poythress

9.) Plumlee

10.) McAdoo

11.) Porter

12.) Mitchell

Big drop off after the top three, even bigger drop after the top six IMO, and McLemore is not a guy we can make much use of. From there I don't see a lot of difference in quality between 7-12. I'd trade down into the late lottery and target somebody like McAdoo, who would be a pretty nice fit here.

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 02:18 PM ----------

Oh and No way Noel stays another year, he's going number 2 at the minimum, he'd go like 5 next year, people know they'll be down 4 slots with next years class, at least.

Prospects don't care as much about that as you think. They think they can go first overall any year. And by all accounts Noel marches to the beat of his own drum. I don't think anyone really knows what's going on in his head but him. He could stay four years and it wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

[nuposse87]

1.) Shabazz

2.) Noel

3.) Zeller

4.) Bennett

5.) Len

6.) McLemore (ideally to trade)

7.) Austin

8.) Poythress

9.) Plumlee

10.) McAdoo

11.) Porter

12.) Mitchell

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 02:18 PM ----------

[/color]

Prospects don't care as much about that as you think. They think they can go first overall any year. And by all accounts Noel marches to the beat of his own drum. I don't think anyone really knows what's going on in his head but him. He could stay four years and it wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

The only kids that stay for all 4 years are non-phenoms that need the time to become talents that can instantly add value to potential drafting teams. Noel's growth would be hampered by merely playing against collegiate talent for 4 years, I think he knows that, that and I highly doubt he'd turn down the chance to get paid.

Oh and no way Zeller is a better prospect than Mclemore. exhibit A:

Jeff Whitey in the background is pretty funny.

[Going Commando]

I believe I just heard Doug Gottlieb say he thinks Kyle Anderson is a better NBA prospect than Shabazz.

His reason? Kyle Anderson is about 6'9 and can play any position 1-4 and he makes guys better--true. And Shabazz is a "6'5 3 and there aren't really top guys like that in the NBA." C'mon man. James Harden.

Anderson looks like a really intriguing talent though. Power point forward that has a decent outside shot and nice handles. But he's not better than Shabazz. Too slow to be an elite guy IMO. Shabazz has some quicks plus Shabazz is a born scorer with immediately translatable scoring tools.

Nice finish through contact from Shabazz. Since he came into the game he's been a big spark for UCLA. He caught and shoot a beautiful three. Gottlieb said the free throw line extended threes are one of Shabazz's favorite spots. That's a difficult shot and I would love to have a shooter who can knock down threes in that region. Beal in the corner, Shabazz from there. The nice thing about that part of the floor if you can shoot that three is you also have a ton of room to but the ball on the court and drive the lane unlike the corner.

[Destino]

I'd like the Wizards to have a more stable line up and compact rotation next season.

PG: Wall / Crawford / Temple

SG: Beal / Crawford

- Temple kept as a stopper/situational player not regularly receiving minutes. Goodbye Mack and Price.

SF: Webster / Ariza

Webster should be resigned IMO he's solid and hates losing. Ariza is the best we have otherwise now that Singleton apparently failed badly. If we draft Shabazz I would NOT start him because it would be unfair to the team but Ariza would need to be moved.

PF: Nene / ???

Center: Okafor / Seraphin

I'm done with Booker and Seraphin doesn't seem to do well when his feet have to move much. This is a problem because Nene is never going to flirt with 40 minutes. Zeller would be good here as part if a big man rotation where he could play both 4 and 5. Okafor has been better than expected recently and unless another veteran option comes along I'd like him here in case Zeller or Len show up. He can start while they get their feet wet and his expiring deal will be big around the trade dealing next season.

I'd hang on to Vesely as well as another situational player. His length and athleticism allow him to come in as a stop gap at the 3, 4, or 5. Versatility is big this deep on the depth hart.

[Going Commando]

I'd like the Wizards to have a more stable line up and compact rotation next season.

PG: Wall / Crawford / Temple

SG: Beal / Crawford

- Temple kept as a stopper/situational player not regularly receiving minutes. Goodbye Mack and Price.

SF: Webster / Ariza

Webster should be resigned IMO he's solid and hates losing. Ariza is the best we have otherwise now that Singleton apparently failed badly. If we draft Shabazz I would NOT start him because it would be unfair to the team but Ariza would need to be moved.

PF: Nene / ???

Center: Okafor / Seraphin

I'm done with Booker and Seraphin doesn't seem to do well when his feet have to move much. This is a problem because Nene is never going to flirt with 40 minutes. Zeller would be good here as part if a big man rotation where he could play both 4 and 5. Okafor has been better than expected recently and unless another veteran option comes along I'd like him here in case Zeller or Len show up. He can start while they get their feet wet and his expiring deal will be big around the trade dealing next season.

I'd hang on to Vesely as well as another situational player. His length and athleticism allow him to come in as a stop gap at the 3, 4, or 5. Versatility is big this deep on the depth hart.

Of all the players on the fence, Martell seems like the one who most likely won't be back. It's a shame, he's earned it so far. But its the nature of his contract situation. Ariza has an option that I don't see him passing over.

To keep Ariza on the bench as the perimeter stopper (where I think he's best suited), we'd have to keep Martell or hopefully draft Shabazz. I would hope Shabazz would be ready to start as a rookie. If not, he'd be a great second line scorer while Ariza would probably start to bring defense and a kick out option for Wall.

Another reason we'd need him is, by getting rid of Price and becoming very reliant on Jordan, we're pretty thin at guard. We would need Shabazz's ability to play some SG for stretches. Especially if he was coming off the second line. Jordan + Shabazz + Seraphin would be POTENT. Play Ves at the 4 for size and defense and then Temple as the perimeter stopper/PG when you want to work Jordan off the ball.

I agree that Booker and Singleton need to be dealt. I'd probably do it for cap relief of some sort. If you draft Shabazz and keep Martell, then yeah, Ariza should be dealt.

------------------

Because Oak's deal is up after next season, you've got to keep Ves IMO unless you can move him in a solid deal that hopefully brings back a big. Or if we draft a good big then you get flexibility to with Ves. Otherwise, we need Ves's ability to play the 4 and 5 off the bench.

Oak should definitely be kept until next year's trade deadline IMO. At that point, we have a difficult choice to make if we didn't get a big man in the draft. Do we let his contract expire and take the 14 mil in cap space? Do we try and extend him (meaning we just couldn't get any kind of C to replace him). Or do we deal him?

Dealing Oak means Seraphin better be ready to start at C. I've felt his face up game and spotty rebounding made him a little more of a 4 like Nene.

I think both Nerlens and Zeller are definitely NBA 5s. They just need to add the strength to play the position but its their natural fit. If you get them and keep Ves, you can let Oak leave or deal him for a perimeter player.

------------------

Net-net, for just next year, our best result is getting Nerlens or Zeller in the draft, extending Price and Temple, extending Martell, dealing Singleton and Booker, and probably extending Cartier.

You need two guys to ride the bench as the 11th and 12th man but that are good enough to come in and contribute in the event of injuries. For me that would either be Price or Temple & then Cartier:

First line for the first half of the season:

1 - Wall

2 - Beal

3 - Martell

4 - Nene

5 - Okafor

Second Line for the first half of the season:

1 - Price or Temple

2 - Crawford

3 - Ariza

4 - Seraphin

5 - Nerlens/Zeller

Then after Oak and possibly Ariza are dealt:

1 - Wall / Price / Temple

2 - Beal / Crawford

3 - Martell / Cartier

4 - Nene / Ves

5 - Seraphin / Nerlens or Zeller

But long term, I still believe BPA is the best option for a team in the draft and I still believe Shabazz would be the BPA whenever we pick. Post Oak / Ariza deals:

1 - Wall / Price / Temple

2 - Beal / Crawford

3 - Martell / Shabazz

4 - Nene / Ves

5 - Seraphin / X

That's a really thin front court. We'd have to go all out for Cousins IMO.

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 06:08 PM ----------

Shabazz has done very little in the second half. Been on the bench a lot and hasn't gotten many shots within the flow of the offense.

[Going Commando]

My ideal armchair GM scenario is to deal Emeka, the draft pick, and some other pieces for Cousins and I guess Garcia or some other contract to balance the trade.

Then you can extend Martell and you've got a good starting five and the depth is pretty well set. Depending on what you gave up in the Cousins trade that is.

Maybe you keep Ves, Seraphin, and Crawford. Nene, Cousins, Seraphin, Ves is a nice four man deep front court IMO. Crawford as the sixth man. And as Des suggested, Ariza or Temple as a perimeter stopper off the bench. A 9 man rotation.

And on top of that, I'd maybe move some pieces to get back into the draft around pick 14 or so to pick up a rookie contract. If the draft played out like DX projects, I'd move into the middle of the first for James Michael McAdoo. I like his game and think he'd be a good fit for the team, coming in off the bench at one of the forward spots. Upside to start eventually.

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 09:29 PM ----------

Dear God Kentucky Auburn is 6 - 6 after 9 minutes.

Nerlens has all 4 of Kentucky's 6 points. Already has 5 boards and 3 blocks. He's a defensive force.

Edited January 20, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

This would be a statement win. To beat the red-hot, everyones-favorite Clippers. 4-1 since Wall's return. Would be a BIG win.

[Destino]

This would be a statement win. To beat the red-hot, everyones-favorite Clippers. 4-1 since Wall's return. Would be a BIG win.

It would but we have no business being on the same floor with these guys. The Clippers are strong in every way a team can be. Interestingly enough I wouldn't be surprised if its a close game. Wizards are playing well lately.

[SiCkSoULjA]

Whitman waited way way too ****ing long too call a time out. The Clippers Bench is a bunch of douches do they got too dance and jump up and down after every play.

[Destino]

Whitman waited way way too ****ing long too call a time out. The Clippers Bench is a bunch of douches do they got too dance and jump up and down after every play.

Yeah the Clippers bench is well known for being ridiculous.

---------- Post added January-19th-2013 at 11:33 PM ----------

Blake is being a *****, as usual, and they warned Nene and Blake. No one but Blake did anything. Blake is so much easier to like when you don't watch Clippers games.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Whitman waited way way too ****ing long too call a time out. The Clippers Bench is a bunch of douches do they got too dance and jump up and down after every play.

Similar to why I hate Blake Griffin. Check out my posts from his draft. I wanted him here, badly. Just knew he would be a star. So his "rookie" year, i made sure to go to the one Clippers game here in DC. And left hating him. ALL game long he was doing douchey stuff, chief among them ****ing to the ref like he was a 10 year vet with three rings. **** him.

---------- Post added January-20th-2013 at 12:37 AM ----------

Definitely doesn't feel like we're only down 7

Edited January 20, 2013 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Destino]

Wall had as many points (9) and attempts (8) as Beal, Crawford, and Price combined in the first half. That's not going to work. Clippers really shut down passing lanes well.

[StillUnknown]

Blake Griffin is a *****

[Destino]

Blake is getting every call now. Ridiculous.

[StillUnknown]

I hope someone elbows him for real next time, intentionally