Is Donovan McNabb a top 10 QB?

[Redskins Anonymous]

I think McNabb is in the top 10 for his position. I also think McNabb mixed with Shanahan is the perfect fit. Shanahan is not the type of coach who likes to have to deal with rookie QB's. When he took over the Broncos, Elway was far from the QB he was in the back in the '80's. But can you say that John Elway wasn't a top ten QB with Shanahan? Steve Young could never get past the Cowboys. He kept making it to the championship game only to lose to Dallas. San Fran brought in Shanahan to call plays; they won the Super Bowl.

If I was judging off of last year, it gets harder to say McNabb is a top ten QB. But factoring who is coaching him, I have no qualms with saying he will be a top ten QB as long as he is here. Having McNabb throwing less will automatically make him better. If anything, McNabb's biggest problem has always been Andy Reid passing 93% if the time. I don't know any QB who throws as frequently as he did who doesn't make the mistakes he did. It's the law of averages. If you do something enough, eventually something bad will happen. For what it's worth, based off of how much he throws, he is still one of the most accurate passers in NFL history (in other words per pass attempt). So it's kind of laughable that Philly fans are saying he is inaccurate. He's not inaccurate; he just throws too much. McNabb in a balanced offense is a dream scenario.

[irishgizzy]

He is definitely top 10. However, this gentleman has made no secret of the fact that he does not like McNabb so I am not at all surprised.

Just watch - McNabb will have a big year. Nothing motivates him more than feeling disrespected - I really think he is on a mission to prove that the Eagles made a big mistake trading him. Also, he wants those big numbers to get that big contract.

[apiah]

I would put Eli Manning before McNabb as of top 10 qbs right now, because Eli had a much better year then Mcnabb in both gameplay and stats .

[authentic]

Sorry, but Schaub has no business on that list.

[RedskinsNation]

Sorry, but Schaub has no business on that list.

hehe, Well...im not sure I would definitly take Schaub over McNabb.

But for statistics-sake Schaub led the NFL in passing Yards last year....was 5th in TD's and 7th in rating....while throwing less INT's than Peyton Manning.

Schaub #'s compare to anyone, period and to not include him on a top 10 list would be ridiculous.

[hatethe cowboys]

Sorry, but Schaub has no business on that list.

Tough to tell. He has really only had 3 years starting. He was fantastic last year, but it's tough to tell if that was him or the weapons around him. I also wonder how he will fare this year without Kyle Shanahan. I think he is a pretty talented QB though and will have another solid year.

[Oldfan]

Grading the QB and his support system together doesn't tell you how good the QB is, so I grade QBs as a scout would -- on what I see when they play: accuracy, velocity, touch, mobility, and so on.

My top ten if anyone is interested:

Cutler

Stafford

Palmer

Flacco

Ryan

Brady

Sanchez

Rivers

Rodgers

Brees

[MattFancy]

Grading the QB and his support system together doesn't tell you how good the QB is, so I grade QBs as a scout would -- on what I see when they play: accuracy, velocity, touch, mobility, and so on.

My top ten if anyone is interested:

Cutler

Stafford

Palmer

Flacco

Ryan

Brady

Sanchez

Rivers

Rodgers

Brees

Any top 10 list that doesn't include Peyton Manning is useless

[Bliz]

Grading the QB and his support system together doesn't tell you how good the QB is, so I grade QBs as a scout would -- on what I see when they play: accuracy, velocity, touch, mobility, and so on.

My top ten if anyone is interested:

Cutler

Stafford

Palmer

Flacco

Ryan

Brady

Sanchez

Rivers

Rodgers

Brees

You can't be serious.

What is it about Peyton Manning's "accuracy, velocity, touch, mobility, and so on" that puts him on the outside looking in against this group?

No offense dude, but I don't think I would hire you as a scout

[sportjunkie07]

its really tough to say whether mcnabb makes a top 10 list. it doesnt really matter though, because i think he is effective enough to wins games and lead a playoff run.

i rank these based on how much i just wouldnt want to face the qb if i was a defensive coordinator. no stats, just simply the fear of what the other qb will do to you. (07' brady at the top and 09' jamarcus at the bottom)

p. manning

brees

brady

rivers

rodgers

farve

schaub

Romo sits to pee

mcnabb

e. manning

[Oldfan]

Any top 10 list that doesn't include Peyton Manning is useless

Peyton Manning benefits from one of the smartest support systems in the NFL. Tom Moore has done an excellent job of covering Peytons lack of mobility and other weaknesses.

The Colts run the fewest pass plays in the NFL. Those that they run, they practice relentlessly -- which masks a QBs lack of accuracy.

Peyton throws too many ducks to be accurate. He's lucky to be playing in a dome. If he played in the Meadowlands like Eli, those ducks would be frequently shot down by the wind.

Peyton does not move well. You can't run movement passes (roll-outs and such) with him.

[Chachie]

I think McNabb is in the top 10 for his position. I also think McNabb mixed with Shanahan is the perfect fit. Shanahan is not the type of coach who likes to have to deal with rookie QB's. When he took over the Broncos, Elway was far from the QB he was in the back in the '80's. But can you say that John Elway wasn't a top ten QB with Shanahan? Steve Young could never get past the Cowboys. He kept making it to the championship game only to lose to Dallas. San Fran brought in Shanahan to call plays; they won the Super Bowl.

If I was judging off of last year, it gets harder to say McNabb is a top ten QB. But factoring who is coaching him, I have no qualms with saying he will be a top ten QB as long as he is here. Having McNabb throwing less will automatically make him better. If anything, McNabb's biggest problem has always been Andy Reid passing 93% if the time. I don't know any QB who throws as frequently as he did who doesn't make the mistakes he did. It's the law of averages. If you do something enough, eventually something bad will happen. For what it's worth, based off of how much he throws, he is still one of the most accurate passers in NFL history (in other words per pass attempt). So it's kind of laughable that Philly fans are saying he is inaccurate. He's not inaccurate; he just throws too much. McNabb in a balanced offense is a dream scenario.

I had never considered any of these points when wondering how McNabb will do here in DC. All very positive, reassuring info. I really hope things play out the way you've indicated they should!

[darrelgreenie]

um......well..........Yes

[MattFancy]

Peyton Manning benefits from one of the smartest support systems in the NFL. Tom Moore has done an excellent job of covering Peytons lack of mobility and other weaknesses.

The Colts run the fewest pass plays in the NFL. Those that they run, they practice relentlessly -- which masks a QBs lack of accuracy.

Peyton throws too many ducks to be accurate. He's lucky to be playing in a dome. If he played in the Meadowlands like Eli, those ducks would be frequently shot down by the wind.

Peyton does not move well. You can't run movement passes (roll-outs and such) with him.

So how is Cutler accurate? He completes alot of passes if you include his INTs. And since when does a QB need to be mobile? Peyton can move around to avoid pressure, he's no Michael Vick, but he's not a sitting duck when he drops back. I don't think you can find one person who knows NFL who would say Peyton Manning is not a top 10 QB. Hell, he's probably one of the best QBs of all-time.

[RedskinsNation]

This thread went from a great debate to Comedy.

[darrelgreenie]

: accuracy, velocity, touch, mobility, and so on.

My top ten if anyone is interested:

Cutler,Stafford,Palmer,Flacco,Ryan,Brady,Sanchez,Rivers,Rodgers

Brees

I agree with many of picks but don't see how you would put Sanchez above some of the other QBs left off your list.

[dcdiscokid]

DM5 is a top 10 QB. Some of these lists are crazy... Cutler in the top 10, are you nuts? Schaub is questionable, and I would take dm5 over palmer any day. I agree once you get down 7 - 12 arguments can be made either way, but i still think he is in there.

[rookieskin]

For the record, Sheehan says that Cooley and Fletcher are the only players the Skins have that are top 10 at their positions.

Really?

Is that because Fat Al is playing 2nd string for us right now?

What about DeAngelo? (If Carlos could catch the ball, he might even make the list)

There are 10 DE/LB hybrid's better than Orakpo?

Name 10 DE's better than Andre Carter last year....

Oh and for the record, we might just have the best GM in the game, and i know that our HC and OC make the top 10 lists with OC being at least top 1-5.

[Oldfan]

So how is Cutler accurate? He completes alot of passes if you include his INTs.

Support system: A smart scheme and outstanding receivers would eliminate most INTs and increase the TDs.

And since when does a QB need to be mobile? Peyton can move around to avoid pressure, he's no Michael Vick, but he's not a sitting duck when he drops back.

Mobility isn't essential, but it's one factor that has to be measured because a good OC can use it to create a more effective offense.

I don't think you can find one person who knows NFL who would say Peyton Manning is not a top 10 QB.

I'll bet you would if you could get one of the scouts or an ex-NFL QB to speak candidly.

[Oldfan]

I agree with many of picks but don't see how you would put Sanchez above some of the other QBs left off your list.

Sanchez has the tools.

Who have I left off that you think is better?

[Ryman of the North]

Mcnabb is not a top 10 qb. period.

and we have a few guys who would be top 10 at their spots, to say otherwise is stupid.

Fletch

AH

Cooley

Portis come to mind immediately.

[GreenRiggins]

I didn't think he was a Top 10 QB at the end of last season so I'm not going to change my opinion now that he is on a team that won 4 games.

We'll see real soon and he better be close if we are gonna make some noise.:helmet:

[GreenRiggins]

DM5 is a top 10 QB. Some of these lists are crazy... Cutler in the top 10, are you nuts? Schaub is questionable, and I would take dm5 over palmer any day. I agree once you get down 7 - 12 arguments can be made either way, but i still think he is in there.

Me too and I'm not a big Mc5 fan.

Palmer just isn't the same anymore.

[Veretax]

McNabb is hovering somewhere around the top 10. I think it probably starts getting murky after around the top 7

I tend to agree. McNabb is solid, but when he has a bad game, its REALLy bad usually, so I'd say he's about 7 or 8 on the list, and as new young guns improve he may slide further.

[TheItalianStallion]

This is an exchange between a Cowboys fan and another guy on another site. I joined the discussion a bit later.

OTHER GUY:In 1999, his rookie year? He struggled like any Rookie does...started 6 games, played in 12. had 8 TD's, 7 INT's, passed for 948 yards, rushed for 313 yards.

In 2000? Started all 16 games....Threw 21 TD and 13 INT's, threw for 3,365 Yards and Rushed for 629 yards and 6 Touchdowns. Not shockingly, he wasa Pro-Bowler.

In 2001? Started all 16 games...Threw 25 Touchdowns and 12 INT's, threw for 3,233 Yards and rushed for 482 yards and 2 Touchdowns....a Pro-Bowl season.

In 2002? Was injured, only played 10 games and started in all of them. He passed for 17 TD and 6 INT's, threw for 2,289...and rushed for 460 yards (yes, in 10 games) and had 6 Touchdowns...even when injured, that was pro-bowl.

COWBOYS FAN: No, those aren’t great stats for this era. His career completion percentage is only 59%. There are 26 active players higher than that. It was even worse from 1999-2003 when he hovered around the 57%-58% range. In an age when good QB s routinely throw for more than 4,000 yards a season, McNabb was never even in the top ten in yardage his first five years, only eventually accomplishing that feat twice, in 2004 (8th) and 2008 (7th), and never reaching 4,000 yards.

This is a passing league, but even generously adding his rushing yards wouldn’t vault his passing numbers to elite status. Better quarterbacks were repeatedly passed over in favor of McNabb when it came time for Pro Bowl selection. The only genuinely impressive passing stat he has is a low career interception percentage, but that’s more a function of a safe, short dump off heavy offense than his accuracy.

McNabb’s team was consistently carried by a strong defense in a way that those of elite QBs like Manning, Brees, Warner, Favre, Hasselbeck, Culpepper, Bulger, and even Brady weren’t. If he truly deserved to be lumped in with guys like that, as he often was by fanboys in the media, helped by that game impacting defense, he should have won at least one Super Bowl. But he didn’t. How many Lombardi trophies might Andy Reid and that stout defense have collected if he had chosen to wed himself to a better quarterback?

If you had watched McNabb over the years you’d know he’s not that consistent. His legacy at the championship level will be that image of him suffering from the heaves as he took too long to move down the field and get his team set while time ticked away. His legacy as a field general will be him incredibly not knowing the basic rules, that a tie results in a regular season game when no one scores in overtime, and compounding this with snarky comments in the press conference afterward that showed he was too stupid to figure out that the rules would obviously be different in the playoffs. His legacy as a man was cemented when he stood by and let his agent baselessly accuse the Philadelphia ownership of racism in a cynical ploy to squeeze a couple more million dollars out of them in contract negotiations.

Here was my response to the Cowboy fan.......

COWBOY FAN:In an age when good QB s routinely throw for more than 4,000 yards a season, McNabb was never even in the top ten in yardage his first five years, only eventually accomplishing that feat twice, in 2004 (8th) and 2008 (7th), and never reaching 4,000 yards.

ME:In fairness, he never really had much to work with in terms of WRs. During the years where Philly was appearing in NFC championships, his best WR was Todd Pinkston. You're right that he throws a lot of dumpoffs and his stats get inflated by him checking down to Westbrook and having him make something out of nothing, but in the 3 years where he did have weapons to work with (2004: T.O. - 2008: Jackson, Celek, Westbrook, Maclin, Curtis - 2009: See 2008), he did put up good numbers. He just barely fell short of 4,000 yards in 2008, and had a ypg of over 250 in 2009 (he missed 2.5 games, which were against the weak defenses of NO & KC), and he missed games in pretty much every year of his career.

His reply to me........

ME: In fairness, he never really had much to work with in terms of WRs. During the years where Philly was appearing in NFC championships, his best WR was Todd Pinkston. You're right that he throws a lot of dumpoffs and his stats get inflated by him checking down to Westbrook and having him make something out of nothing, but in the 3 years where he did have weapons to work with (2004: T.O. - 2008: Jackson, Celek, Westbrook, Maclin, Curtis - 2009: See 2008), he did put up good numbers. He just barely fell short of 4,000 yards in 2008, and had a ypg of over 250 in 2009 (he missed 2.5 games, which were against the weak defenses of NO & KC), and he missed games in pretty much every year of his career.

COWBOY FAN: McNabb's stats improved a little over the past few years, and I do think he'll probably be an upgrade over Campbell, but he doesn't belong anywhere near the Hall of Fame. While his receiving corps hasn't been great, I actually think they've been attacked a little too much over the years. Frankly they haven't had much to work with at quarterback. Football is a team sport, and not having elite receivers is just the way it goes sometimes. If he had put up good numbers despite that then it would have been a bonus, but since he's mostly put up mediocre numbers over the course of his career there's really no basis for saying he's anything but a mediocre QB who had a couple of legitimately good seasons. Even when he had TO (in his prime) his numbers weren't astronomical or anything, and he failed to win a Super Bowl. Last year, with all sorts of play makers on offense, he still got out performed by Tony Romo sits to pee. McNabb completed 60.3% of his passes (one of his better years) for 253.8 yards/game and 22 touchdowns versus 10 interceptions. Romo sits to pee (a year after Dallas cut ties with TO) completed 63.1% of his passes (actually a down year for him in that stat) for 280.2 yards/game and 26 touchdowns versus 9 interceptions. Not to mention the Cowboys defeated the Eagles in all three head to head match ups (really demolishing them in the second two). Despite all that McNabb was ludicrously selected for the Pro Bowl ahead of Romo sits to pee, and the latter wouldn't have even gotten in if not for injuries creating an opening. And while McNabb missed games as you said, Romo sits to pee played every regular down of every game.

Even last year McNabb was overrated.

He also quoted an article written in 2003.......

McNabb has started for the Eagles since the 2000 season. In that time, the Eagles offense has never ranked higher than 10th in the league in yards gained. In fact, their 10th-place rank in 2002 was easily their best; in their two previous seasons, they were 17th in a 32-team league. They rank 31st so far in 2003.

In contrast, the Eagles defense in those four seasons has never ranked lower than 10th in yards allowed. In 2001, they were seventh; in 2002 they were fourth; this year they're fifth.

Thoughts?