Redskins Anonymous Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 ^^ I think if he had beat the Pats, it wouldn't even be a question about his HOF worthiness. As it is I think he is a borderline HOFer. To say he doesn't belong anywhere near the HOF is a stretch and belies that Cowboy fan's insecurity in McNabb. It probably bothers him that some view him as being better than Romo sits to pee for all those years. It's cool; I used to hate on McNabb, too. For what it's worth, the guy is right that he is a huge improvement on Campbell. But he needs to factor in Shanahan's coaching. Shanahan with McNabb could be a thing of beauty. He just sluffs McNabb off as an overrated version of Trent Dilfer (minus the ring...burn) which he is not. McNabb has consistantly owned the league for the most part. Last time I checked, Donovan had already played in a few conference championship games by the time he was Romo sits to pee's age. So maybe he needs to worry about his own overrated QB. McNabb in a balanced Shanahan offense where he doesn't have to throw every down is the future for the Redskins. I think he will be perfect in that situation. I know if McNabb ever had the receivers (plural) Romo sits to pee has had in Dallas in Philly, McNabb would have a ring by now. But here is the ultimate point in support of DM's HOF status. He made James Thrash look like a pro bowler. Nothing against Thrash because he is a smart player who works hard, but he's not exactly Jerry Rice. When Thrash left DC for Philly around the start of the decade, Thrash was his goto guy. When you consistantly make perpetually average players look great, you are a HOFer IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penteboss Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 I think in terms of numbers and wins he IS a top 10 QB, but he's closer to the bottom. In terms of leadership and moxie, he is easily a top 3 QB. I can't help but to wonder why those two traits get so overlooked. I guess fantasy football altered the mindset of people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfanatic_1 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 I think in terms of numbers and wins he IS a top 10 QB, but he's closer to the bottom. In terms of leadership and moxie, he is easily a top 3 QB. I can't help but to wonder why those two traits get so overlooked. I guess fantasy football altered the mindset of people I disagree with you greatly on leadership. Leadership is what the experts say he does best. But from what I've seen, none of the experts have him projected as a top 10 QB this year. I'm rooting for Donovan, Rod Woodson called him one of the most, if not the most unappreciated QB of his generation. I tend to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 But he needs to factor in Shanahan's coaching. Shanahan with McNabb could be a thing of beauty. McNabb in a balanced Shanahan offense where he doesn't have to throw every down is the future for the Redskins. I think he will be perfect in that situation.Agreed on Shanahan's system; McNabb is mobile, and a good downfield thrower.He just sluffs McNabb off as an overrated version of Trent Dilfer (minus the ring...burn) which he is not. McNabb has consistantly owned the league for the most part. Last time I checked, Donovan had already played in a few conference championship games by the time he was Romo sits to pee's age. So maybe he needs to worry about his own overrated QB. I know if McNabb ever had the receivers (plural) Romo sits to pee has had in Dallas in Philly, McNabb would have a ring by now.I'm not sure that's true. In 2004, 2008-9, McNabb had playmakers who were comparable to what Romo sits to pee had to work with. Perhaps more importantly, his defenses on a papg basis have been......2000-4th 2001-2nd 2002-2nd 2003-7th, but 1st in the post season 2004-2nd, and 1st in the post season to the Patriots' 2nd 2005-27th (didn't make playoffs) 2006-15th, but 7th in the post season 2007-9th (didn't make playoffs) 2008-4th 2009-19th (great D-Coordinator Jim Johnson died before the season started) I think he's selling McNabb a bit short, but I don't think his position is without merit, and I'm not sure I'd put DM in the top 10. Like you said though, this system might be a good fit for him, and he certainly could be in the top 10 this year. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailToTheRedskins14 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Portis is NOT a top 10 RB. Chris Johnson Adrian Peterson Ray Rice Jonathan Stewart Frank Gore Marion Barber Steven Jackson MJD Michael Turner Brandon Jacobs Joseph Addai LeSean McCoy Matt Forte Rashard Mendenhall Knowshon Moreno I still say Portis has been one of the most overrated players on our team for the last couple years. No, I'm not saying he sucks and will have a bad year, but I believe he's closer to being done than he is to his prime. And as for Peyton not being a Top 10 QB...I saw Stafford, Sanchez, and Cutler in that list over Peyton. WTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Peyton Manning benefits from one of the smartest support systems in the NFL. Tom Moore has done an excellent job of covering Peytons lack of mobility and other weaknesses.The Colts run the fewest pass plays in the NFL. Those that they run, they practice relentlessly -- which masks a QBs lack of accuracy. Peyton throws too many ducks to be accurate. He's lucky to be playing in a dome. If he played in the Meadowlands like Eli, those ducks would be frequently shot down by the wind. Peyton does not move well. You can't run movement passes (roll-outs and such) with him. balderdash first of all, you give Peyton no credit for the system. Part of the reason the system is so smart and effective is because of how well he runs it. You couldn't just plug in Sanchez and hope to run the same system. His adjustments at the line, and his ability to pick apart the weaknesses in a defense are unmatched. Throws too many ducks to be accurate? Now you're just making stuff up. He has a career completion percentage of 64.8, and since his rookie year, he has finished in the top 4 of that category 8 of 11 years (the other years he finished 5th, 6th and 6th). No wait. It's only the scheme. :ols: Do you have a link to support any of this? Even the part about running the fewest passing plays? Or do they only run the fewest passing plays because they have base packages that he then freely adjusts so as to murder people in the most efficient way possible (in a manner no other qb is capable of doing)? Peyton is top 10 all-time. You better recognize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 And as for Peyton not being a Top 10 QB...I saw Stafford, Sanchez, and Cutler in that list over Peyton. WTH.I think Archie Manning is probably the most underrated QB in NFL history. The irony is that his son Peyton, who isn't half the QB his dad was, will probably surpass Joe Montana as the most overrated QB in NFL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 For the record, Sheehan says that Cooley and Fletcher are the only players the Skins have that are top 10 at their positions. Albert Haynesworth was a top 5 DT last year, I think he'll be a top 10 DE/NT this year since he's only competing with half the league's starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselfan44 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Id say he's close to the top 10.....On any given Sunday he can be top 5 or so.....I think alot this year will depend on the reciever corps that he has and the O-Line...I really liked what I saw during the Buffalo game....Our O-Line had attitude and swagger...I like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 balderdashfirst of all, you give Peyton no credit for the system. Part of the reason the system is so smart and effective is because of how well he runs it. You couldn't just plug in Sanchez and hope to run the same system. His adjustments at the line, and his ability to pick apart the weaknesses in a defense are unmatched. Throws too many ducks to be accurate? Now you're just making stuff up. He has a career completion percentage of 64.8, and since his rookie year, he has finished in the top 4 of that category 8 of 11 years (the other years he finished 5th, 6th and 6th). No wait. It's only the scheme. :ols: Do you have a link to support any of this? Even the part about running the fewest passing plays? Or do they only run the fewest passing plays because they have base packages that he then freely adjusts so as to murder people in the most efficient way possible (in a manner no other qb is capable of doing)? Peyton is top 10 all-time. You better recognize Since my opinion is based on personal observations, I can't prove anything. The difference between us is that you think you can support your opinion with statistics like the completion percentage.In addition to the QB's ability, the completion percentage measures the scheme, the quality of the play calling, the protection and the receivers. When you claim it as a QB statistic, you're making a bogus claim and you don't seem to realize it. When fans or members of the media want to hype a QB, and they can't do it with tangible evidence (stuff anyone can see), they do it with BS on the intangibles. Peyton gets a lot of hype on the intangibles because it's obvious he isn't gifted with the tangibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseGoForTheWin Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Does the Pope look the other way while little boys are molested by members of clergy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpumd Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Peyton Manning benefits from one of the smartest support systems in the NFL. Tom Moore has done an excellent job of covering Peytons lack of mobility and other weaknesses.The Colts run the fewest pass plays in the NFL. Those that they run, they practice relentlessly -- which masks a QBs lack of accuracy. Peyton throws too many ducks to be accurate. He's lucky to be playing in a dome. If he played in the Meadowlands like Eli, those ducks would be frequently shot down by the wind. Peyton does not move well. You can't run movement passes (roll-outs and such) with him. Wow...this is ridiculous. Peyton benefits from one of the smartest support systems in the NFL? The Colts run the fewest pass plays in the NFL? If the Colts have such a great support system and the scheme is what allows Peyton to put up the numbers he does, why does their offense suck when Peyton's not in there (i.e. when they play the backup after they've won 12 or 13 games and clinched homefield or in the preseason)? I mean, since Peyton sucks, his backups should be able to at least come close to what he does, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 If the Colts have such a great support system and the scheme is what allows Peyton to put up the numbers he does, why does their offense suck when Peyton's not in there...When Jim Sorgi was there, the offense usually looked pretty good when he played with the number ones. So, I'm guessing that you're making you case based on the one half of football Curtis Painter played last season when the team had pulled some of its starters. Is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpumd Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 No, actually, I was referring to Sorgi. He was so good the Colts let him go. By the way, Painter played more than one half of game last year, too. And yes, he was terrible in those games as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 No, actually, I was referring to Sorgi. He was so good the Colts let him go.Well, if you're sarcastically saying that Sorgi was really bad, you are arguing against your position since that would explain the dropoff you claim happened.My position is that Peyton is overrated. I'm saying he's overrated for the same reasons that Mike Leach's college QBs tend to be overrated. They benefit from excellent, QB friendly systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsWarrior81 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Peyton Manning benefits from one of the smartest support systems in the NFL. Tom Moore has done an excellent job of covering Peytons lack of mobility and other weaknesses.The Colts run the fewest pass plays in the NFL. Those that they run, they practice relentlessly -- which masks a QBs lack of accuracy. Peyton throws too many ducks to be accurate. He's lucky to be playing in a dome. If he played in the Meadowlands like Eli, those ducks would be frequently shot down by the wind. Peyton does not move well. You can't run movement passes (roll-outs and such) with him. You are absolutely crazy if you think that little of one of the greatest quarterbacks of our time. I think you are often contrary simply because you enjoy bickering over non-points. Peyton Manning is one of the all time greats. You will find virtually no professional who agrees with your point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Here's my top 10 (not necessarily in order): Peyton Brady Brees Rothlisberger Rivers Rodgers Favre Maybe Schaub Romo sits to pee? Yeah, McNabb's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 No. But he is still a major upgrade over what we had. Dude has always been overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 You are absolutely crazy if you think that little of one of the greatest quarterbacks of our time. I think you are often contrary simply because you enjoy bickering over non-points.My opinions are often unpopular because I think about things rather than just jumping on band wagons.Peyton Manning is one of the all time greats.In order to measure something, it has to first be isolated. If I asked for reasons supporting your opinion, you'll give me team stats and team accomplishments.You will find virtually no professional who agrees with your point of view. It obvious that you have nothing to support this claim either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Go team by team through the NFL and ask yourself whos starter you would trade him for on an even trade and then you will have your answer. For me he's somewhere around 20th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpumd Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Well, if you're sarcastically saying that Sorgi was really bad, you are arguing against your position since that would explain the dropoff you claim happened.My position is that Peyton is overrated. I'm saying he's overrated for the same reasons that Mike Leach's college QBs tend to be overrated. They benefit from excellent, QB friendly systems. My position is it's not the Colts' scheme, nor is it their support staff, that allow Peyton to put up the stats he does. In fact, Peyton is what makes the Colts' scheme what it is. He has the freedom to call run or pass, or to audible as he sees fit, based on the opposing defense. You can make the argument that Peyton actually does Tom Moore's job on game day by putting the offense in the play with the most potential for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Most if not all of the quarterbacks placed higher than McNabb had better wide receivers and/or tight ends to work with in their primes. It isn't a coincidence that the ONE YEAR that McNabb had Terrell Owens that the Eagles made it to the Super Bowl and failed to return in subsequent years. To really evaluate McNabb you might have to think about what kind of offense Peyton or Brees would perform in where Todd Pinkston and Reggie Brown are your prime receivers. Not exactly Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiah Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Brees Brady P.Manning Rothlisberger Rivers Rodgers Favre Schaub Romo sits to pee Eli Mcnabb is 11 on my list. Maybe having a running game will dispel his erratic passes he throws to the ground in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line, or when he just has a super bad day and couldnt hit anything thats the color of his teams jersey. (eagles vs radiers). Mcnabb is an upgfrade over Campbell, but im not sold on him completely and wont be until our season opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlass Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 There is a difference between being a top 10 QB and being a top 10 QB in Shanny's offense. McNabb is a top 10 QB in Shanny's offense. He'll probably be top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Sanchez has the tools.Who have I left off that you think is better? Sanchez has the tools but lacked the production. Better then Sanchez? I would put a lot of QBs ahead of Sanchez but in the context of this thread i would put these QBs that were left off your list: Peyton and Eli Mannings, McNabb, Romo sits to pee, Rothlisberger and Matt Schaub ahead of Sanchez. I thought the list below was apropos to this thread; its from another thread in which KDawg and myself had a discussion about where we ranked the current NFL QBs in groups: Top Tier: Peyton Manning Drew Brees Tom Brady Tier Ia: Eli Manning Ben Roethlisberger Tier II: Aaron Rodgers Donovon McNabb Matt Schaub Tony Romo sits to pee Philip Rivers Middle Tier: Jay Cutler Mike Vick Matt Ryan Campbell Palmer Vince Young Flacco David Garraud Kyle Orton Tarvaris Jackson Matt Hasselbeck(when healthy) Knocking on the door: Matt Stafford-with a bullet Alex Smith Chad Henne Lower Tier: Sage Rosenfels Mark Sanchez Matt Hasselbeck(when injured) Matt Moore Matt Cassell Dennis Dixon Byron Leftwich Matt Leinart Trent Edwards Jake Delhomme Josh Freeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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