ESPN - Moss to Beast: '09 was my best season

[Warhead36]

The game vs Dallas....was he suppose to drop them? He is paid to make those type of catches. Your basing his entire Redskins career off of 1 game? What he did in that game is what he was paid to do, and yes we all loved it and really appreciated Moss for that game. But what you don't get is despite the regime being a joke, Moss did not help out it anyway. It was WEEK 1. YES WEEK 1 and he was already taking plays off. Joke of a regime or not, he sure didn't help the cause.

He's had plenty of big plays in big games. The 3 TD catches vs. the Jaguars in 06. The big TD bomb vs. the Saints in 08. IIRC he made a lot of big plays in our December winning streaks in 05 and 07.

In his five years as a Skin he's had two 1000+ yard seasons and last year had a 900 yard season, which is pretty damn impressive considering how bad our offenses have been in that time. I think that body of work speaks larger than a game here and there where he lost his cool or gave up out of frustration.

[Rexx1240]

Yeah, I'll take spitting over throwing in the towel any day.

The point is since that 4 minutes of 2005, Moss has been more of a punk than a star, and has been incredibly inconsistent. And worse, he takes way too many plays off to be considered a leader or mentor to the young guys.

Again, I hope he changes this year. But there is nothing worse than talking a big game like he did in this interview when you're not giving it your all out on the field each play.

Moss has been our "go-to" receiver since he got here. That has been the case with evry single QB we've had since he got here. Yes he has "taken plays off" jus as evry othr receiver in this league. T.O has "taken plays off" as has Randy Moss, Anquan Boldin, Calvin Johnson, Ochocinco & alot of the othr so-called "best in the game".

As a WR in this league, u get frustrated when u kno your abilities, yet u cant get the ball & are losin games bcause of it. So what he gets frustrated from time to time, how the hell can u blame him?? Since he's been here, we've been playin him out of position & nvr gave him a legit, consistent #2 to take a little coverage from him. Yet he's still been our leading receiver evry yr since he's been here so as far as I'm concerned, he's earned a "few plays off"

[Philip Pease]

With a better OL (will provide better pass protection), a better QB (terrific long-ball passing), and better offensive play calling (new coaches) I expect Santana to have a terrific season.

[hoskins]

Moss has been our "go-to" receiver since he got here. That has been the case with evry single QB we've had since he got here. Yes he has "taken plays off" jus as evry othr receiver in this league. T.O has "taken plays off" as has Randy Moss, Anquan Boldin, Calvin Johnson, Ochocinco & alot of the othr so-called "best in the game".

As a WR in this league, u get frustrated when u kno your abilities, yet u cant get the ball & are losin games bcause of it. So what he gets frustrated from time to time, how the hell can u blame him?? Since he's been here, we've been playin him out of position & nvr gave him a legit, consistent #2 to take a little coverage from him. Yet he's still been our leading receiver evry yr since he's been here so as far as I'm concerned, he's earned a "few plays off"

So I would agree on Randy Moss, and Johnson. But Ochocinco? I'm not sure about that.

But what would you think if Randy Moss came out and boasted in an interview about how he wants to be a good role model for young receivers?

The thing is we're not talking about "a few plays off" at all. You watch Santana Moss in games when the camera is not on him, and the guy is very often just jogging off the line. And when he's not the primary, he doesn't finish his routes. This is not a few times, this is a consistent issue with him. He doesn't finish routes and it's caused a lot problems on a lot of plays.

As predictable as our offense was the past two years, the best "read" for the fans in the stands, and no doubt every defense we've played, has been to watch Moss' body language at the snap. He's the opposite of his buddy Portis in that respect, he just doesn't seem to care about the play if he's not the primary on that play.

Now, granted, he's been playing with a QB who didn't always find the 2nd read and hardly ever found a third. But still, we don't know that Moss will now suddenly do all the right things because of McNabb and Shanahan. I hope he will, but we don't know.

My point is that a lot of Skins fans put Santana Moss on a much higher pedestal than he deserves. And it's all because of those two plays in 2005. If you take those two snaps away, then you see he's been sort of a "B" level player all along.

Of course he's been a "B" level player on a "C" or "D" level team, so of course he's the "go to" guy.

Again, I hope he's a lot better this year. What ticked me off about the interview, though, was his talking about being a good example for the younger players. Moss and Portis are not the kinds of players we want young guys learning from. I would much rather they learn from Galloway or certainly McNabb or guys like Fletcher and Orakpo. Those guys are leaders. Santana Moss is not in the same league of heart and professionalism of say a London Fletcher or a McNabb or a Chris Samuels or even a Cooley.

[dfbovey]

It was an average year statistically but it could have been much better.

1- Campbell consistently missed him when he was wide open deep. Either from badly overthrowing him or simply not seeing him. This includes times when Campbell had plenty of time in the pocket.

2- The offensive line, for the most part... didn't allow them to go down field as much as they should have.

Moss could have had much more production under better circumstances.

[kubstix]

He's had plenty of big plays in big games. The 3 TD catches vs. the Jaguars in 06. The big TD bomb vs. the Saints in 08. IIRC he made a lot of big plays in our December winning streaks in 05 and 07.

In his five years as a Skin he's had two 1000+ yard seasons and last year had a 900 yard season, which is pretty damn impressive considering how bad our offenses have been in that time. I think that body of work speaks larger than a game here and there where he lost his cool or gave up out of frustration.

I agree he has had alot of clutch games. But so has every receiver in the NFL AND SOME. I appreciate Moss, but sometimes we seem to forget his fumbles, dropped balls, personal fouls, stopping in the middle of routes, taking plays off, and famous 9 yard catches with the ultimate Moss ball spin. I like Moss, I have his jersey, but no way is this guy a team player. I'm rooting for Moss this year for the same reason as others, Donny5. Don5 will get Moss the ball this year and I agree, he will have his best season. But with Zorn as the coach, Vinny as the GM, and JC as our QB......you still need to try. 1 Person not helping the cause on Week 1 is 1 person to blame for a failed regime. I don't blame just Dan, Vinny, Zorn....some players like Moss just weren't motivated in the old regime and this is my dislike towards him.

[Rexx1240]

So I would agree on Randy Moss, and Johnson. But Ochocinco? I'm not sure about that.

But what would you think if Randy Moss came out and boasted in an interview about how he wants to be a good role model for young receivers?

The thing is we're not talking about "a few plays off" at all. You watch Santana Moss in games when the camera is not on him, and the guy is very often just jogging off the line. And when he's not the primary, he doesn't finish his routes. This is not a few times, this is a consistent issue with him. He doesn't finish routes and it's caused a lot problems on a lot of plays.

As predictable as our offense was the past two years, the best "read" for the fans in the stands, and no doubt every defense we've played, has been to watch Moss' body language at the snap. He's the opposite of his buddy Portis in that respect, he just doesn't seem to care about the play if he's not the primary on that play.

Now, granted, he's been playing with a QB who didn't always find the 2nd read and hardly ever found a third. But still, we don't know that Moss will now suddenly do all the right things because of McNabb and Shanahan. I hope he will, but we don't know.

My point is that a lot of Skins fans put Santana Moss on a much higher pedestal than he deserves. And it's all because of those two plays in 2005. If you take those two snaps away, then you see he's been sort of a "B" level player all along.

Of course he's been a "B" level player on a "C" or "D" level team, so of course he's the "go to" guy.

Again, I hope he's a lot better this year. What ticked me off about the interview, though, was his talking about being a good example for the younger players. Moss and Portis are not the kinds of players we want young guys learning from. I would much rather they learn from Galloway or certainly McNabb or guys like Fletcher and Orakpo. Those guys are leaders. Santana Moss is not in the same league of heart and professionalism of say a London Fletcher or a McNabb or a Chris Samuels or even a Cooley.

While i def agree with alot of your post, I will have to first address the thing that jumps out to me most.... Taking away those two plays from 2005 still gives him about 1300yrds that season which is far from "B" level. I highly doubt those 2 catches got him to the ProBowl that yr & evrybdy jus completely disregarded the othr 80+ he made for the season.

For the most part, I would have to say Santana is a B receiver overall & i really dont think anybdy puts him on that A level with Randy, Ochocinco and the rest of the eliters.

Like i've mentioned, yes I have been to alot of games. Yes I have seen Santana take plays off. But i highly doubt you put up the numbers he's put up since he's been here with takin as many plays off as u try to make it seem like he has.

Because of the fact that he does take plays off, is why he will probably nvr get that "A" grade in my book or anybdy else but holdin any NFL player to the same professional standard as London Fletcher is a big stretch. How many players do u kno that are actually on the level of Fletch, Samuals, or McNabb??

Yes i actually would want youngsters learning from vets like Portis because evry grown man comes into the league with their own personality. Which means they dont necessarily have to go to the media and speak their mind with blatant honesty no matter how bad it may sound, as CP does. But on the field is what counts the most & the heart Clinton Portis plays with on gamedays will make a great example for any youngster to follow.

[Rexx1240]

I agree he has had alot of clutch games. But so has every receiver in the NFL AND SOME. I appreciate Moss, but sometimes we seem to forget his fumbles, dropped balls, personal fouls, stopping in the middle of routes, taking plays off, and famous 9 yard catches with the ultimate Moss ball spin. I like Moss, I have his jersey, but no way is this guy a team player. I'm rooting for Moss this year for the same reason as others, Donny5. Don5 will get Moss the ball this year and I agree, he will have his best season. But with Zorn as the coach, Vinny as the GM, and JC as our QB......you still need to try. 1 Person not helping the cause on Week 1 is 1 person to blame for a failed regime. I don't blame just Dan, Vinny, Zorn....some players like Moss just weren't motivated in the old regime and this is my dislike towards him.

I have to disagree with the fact that evry receiver in the "NFL AND SOME" has had clutch games. As a matter of fact, the majority of them have not. Deeper into the subject, the vast majority of them have not even come close to puttin up the numbers that Santana has.

And jus because of the "fumbles, dropped balls, personal fouls, stopping in the middle of routes, and fomous 9 yard catches with the ultimate Moss ball spin" is exactly why he will never be an "A" level receiver. But I really dont understnd how we can act like evry receiver in the league is puttin up the same numbers as Santana. Not only does he produce, but he produces under ****ed up circumstances. Yes i do think he could've put forth more effort than what he has but i can undrstnd his frustrations. Not that i agree with what he did or his reasons for his actions but i do understand.

I jus dont feel comfortable dismissin what he has actually done to help the franchise. Again, not ignoring what he's done to hurt the franchise, jus sayin u gotta take the good wit the bad.

[illone]

Mcnabb is going to be the best thing ever to happen to Santana's career.

The same might be said for Portis, and Cooley and.....

Everyone:D

[HLF]

Sure would help If we could get another threat opposite of him so defenses arent doubling him every damn play.

[UK_HOG]

The same might be said for Portis, and Cooley and.....

Everyone:D

They are not saying that 2009 is there best season though.

[tml6157]

I will always appreciate what he did for us in 05 but the guy just gets to me. He has WAY too many crucial drive killing drops. Its a lack of concentration, plain and simple. Dont even get me started on him mailing in plays during the game. The play that comes to mind for me is the playoffs in Seattle. As much as Suisham missing the FG killed us, so did the INT for a TD. When Collins was picked, it was because Moss gave up on the play and didn't think Collins was going to throw to him. The pick 6 sealed the deal. I will root for him as long as he plays for us and will cheer for him just as much as anyone else but if/when he leaves this team, it wont bother me one bit.

[illone]

They are not saying that 2009 is there best season though.

Read what I was replying to.

[Mickalino]

[WALL-LE]

I must say im quite surprised by all of the Santana haters:rubeyes:

[Mickalino]

What a bogus read. The guy is the definition of playing for a paycheck. Good thing he is changing his tone with Shanny. I refused to wear my Moss jersey last year at the games. I saw all I needed to see Week 1 vs the Giants. JC stepped over the line of scrimmage, Moss saw it, took the play off and INT. All he had to do was stick an arm out to bat it away, instead he saw JC stepped over the LOS and threw the play. We were down by 10, not 50.

Could not agree more. Moss was... and always has been over-rated.

Jeez, quit bein such haters. Moss is the best receiver we've had in nearly 2 decades and you know it. His game-winning catches against the Cowboys and Jaguars were epic. It's amazing how quickly fans turn on players.

[HLF]

I must say im quite surprised by all of the Santana haters:rubeyes:

Me too. The dude has been our #1 WR with no help at all minus Cooley. Haters

[Dukes and Skins]

I must say im quite surprised by all of the Santana haters:rubeyes:

Your not the only one I was surprised to see some of the comments about him as well:rubeyes:

[WALL-LE]

^^

i mean dude has always been our only WR that did anything, always double covered, no oline and yet still made plays, never complained.

I dont get it?

[Riggins77]

Woopdie ****ing doo.....quit pulling your ****ing hamstring and catch some god damn balls.

[Hubbs]

^^

i mean dude has always been our only WR that did anything, always double covered, no oline and yet still made plays, never complained.

I dont get it?

Seriously, there are gallons of Haterade being passed around in here. Dude's been the primary receiver for a team that's had Mark "Old-and-Busted" Brunell and Jason "New Notness" Campbell as its starting quarterbacks. Except for the little run with Collins, when, big surprise, Moss was suddenly putting up big numbers again. And the best #2 he's had the entire damn time was ARE.

The other Moss didn't exactly flourish when he was in Oakland, and he might be the second-best receiver of all time. Quarterbacks matter. Multiple threats matter. Coaching matters.

[HLF]

Quarterbacks matter. Multiple threats matter. Coaching matters.

Bingo. Gotta give the man the benefit of the doubt until he has all this especially with being so small. Art Monk would NOT be a HOF without Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders, Joe Theisman, Mark Rypien and the legendary Joe Gibbs.

[Rexx1240]

Woopdie ****ing doo.....quit pulling your ****ing hamstring and catch some god damn balls.

:ols:Wow. This **** is sad. Laughable but still very, very sad.

[BayouBrave86]

Moss always looked frustrated with Campbell. I can't even count the number of times I saw him throw up his arms in disgust after Campbell missed him being wide open.

[styx491]

Seriously, there are gallons of Haterade being passed around in here. Dude's been the primary receiver for a team that's had Mark "Old-and-Busted" Brunell and Jason "New Notness" Campbell as its starting quarterbacks. Except for the little run with Collins, when, big surprise, Moss was suddenly putting up big numbers again. And the best #2 he's had the entire damn time was ARE.

The other Moss didn't exactly flourish when he was in Oakland, and he might be the second-best receiver of all time. Quarterbacks matter. Multiple threats matter. Coaching matters.

I agree so much with this post, especially the bolded. So much goes into a reception than just crisp route running and speed and good hands. Game planning, plus an accurate QB, plus good protection, and confidence go into a lot of individual WR stats.

The same can be said for individual RB stats as well. Good blocking schemes, plus calling the right play, plus a fear of the passing attack automatically add onto a run.