Dallas Morning News: FBI says Mexican forces pointed guns at investigators of border shooting

[heyholetsgogrant]

FBI says Mexican forces pointed guns at investigators of border shooting

12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, June 10, 2010

FROM WIRE REPORTS The Associated Press, Los Angeles Times

CIUDAD JUÁREZ, Mexico – Mexican security forces pointed their rifles toward U.S. authorities investigating the shooting of a 15-year-old Mexican by a U.S. Border Patrol agent on the banks of the Rio Grande, the FBI and witnesses said Wednesday.

[Click image for a larger version] The Associated Press

The Associated Press

Mexican police took down a banner Tuesday that was placed near the site where a Mexican teen died.

Shortly after the boy was shot, Mexican soldiers arrived at the scene and pointed their guns at the Border Patrol agents across the river while bystanders screamed insults and hurled rocks and firecrackers, FBI spokeswoman Andrea Simmons said. She said the agents were forced to withdraw.

"It pretty quickly got very intense over on the Mexican side," she said, adding that FBI agents returned later and resumed the investigation as Mexican authorities continued pointing guns at them from across the river.

A relative of the dead boy said that the Mexican security forces – whom he described as federal police, not soldiers – pointed their guns only when the Americans waded into the mud, possibly in an attempt to cross into Mexico.

The Mexican forces accused the Americans of trying to recover evidence from Mexican soil and threatened to kill them if they crossed the border, prompting both sides to draw their guns, said the 16-year-old witness, who asked not to be further identified.

Enrique Torres, spokesman for the joint federal, state and municipal police operation in Chihuahua, also said there were no soldiers present, only federal and local Mexican police.

The confrontation occurred Monday night over the body of Sergio Adrián Hernández Huereka, who died of his wounds beside a railroad bridge connecting Juárez, a city ripped apart by drug-war violence, and El Paso.......Differing details

Accounts of what happened that night differ in key details.

Source: Dallas Morning News

Full Article Click Here

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/mexico/stories/DN-bordershootl_10int.ART0.State.Edition2.29528a2.html

[Hubbs]

Ugh. No matter what the facts are, this is only gonna fan the flames on both sides.

[AzSkinsFan63]

A relative of the dead boy said that the Mexican security forces – whom he described as federal police, not soldiers – pointed their guns only when the Americans waded into the mud, possibly in an attempt to cross into Mexico.

can't have that happen..that would be illegal!

[skinfan133]

If that report is credible, a statement from Washington should happen.

[BadKarma]

Tensions at an all time high

[HailGreen28]

Hypocrisy, thy name is Mexico.

[Teller]

I liked this better before the edit, grant.

OK, so the "bystanders" (not assailants) were hurling rocks and firecrackers at US Federal LEOs. They were also hurling "insults." Hmm....Wonder what those insults consisted of? Couldn't have been any sort of racial epithet, could it? Maybe they knew these officers personally, and referenced specific personal traits about them and/or their families. But regardless, for the purposes of "fair" reporting, we'll call them insults.

Then we'll turn around and fully report the accusations of racism and xenophobia alleged by Mexican officials because of the Arizona law. Classic. We're racist because of a law that forbids explicitly consideration of race when asking for proof of citizenship, and yet these nice, flower-waving, well-wishing "bystanders" have their actions reported as "insults."

I also think we should immediately stop and adopt the Mexican approach to border enforcement. Because our officers waded into the mud "POSSIBLY" to cross the border in an attempt to collect evidence, they were drawn down on. Possibly. Not they did, not it was clear they intended to, but POSSIBLY.

Fair enough. If we're on our side of the line, and we think someone might cross, possibly, we'll draw down on them. If they cross, good night, game over, zip you up and ship you back to your family.

Have to wonder what it was the Mexican authorities were protecting with the threat of lethal force. The story says that the intention of our authorities was to collect evidence. Surely if there was a gun on the other side, that would make the peaceniks look awfully bad, wouldn't it?

And as far as Mexican authorities saying they won't do anything to prevent Mexican "migration," well, I happen to agree with them. You want to migrate here via legal channels, I'll welcome you with open arms. But they're not "Mexican migrants," they are ILLEGAL ALIENS. And those people deserve to be stopped....forcibly if necessary. (And we won't even kill them, unlike our dear friends to the south.)

Regardless, I'll take solace in the prevailing ES opinion that if we just bust the employers who hire these people, the problem is solved. This is just another anecdotal piece that makes it abundantly clear to all that the border isn't the problem. Shyeah. Right.

[Predicto]

In before... aw damn.

[The 12th Commandment]

Here are a couple links from the local take on it. Hard to defend shooting a guy throwing rocks although if you're hit by one it could do serious damage and death is not out of the question. I have to wonder why they just didn't back out of range and let the situation de-escalate?

http://www.lcsun-news.com/ci_15265014?source=most_viewed

For Carlos Gutierrez, 67, the biggest obstacle to making the crossing into Mexico on Wednesday was the heat. He lugged two bags of groceries for his girlfriend. He stopped frequently to take a breather.

As he looked at the base of the railroad bridge where the shooting took place, with a ball cap saying "**** Fight" on his head, Gutierrez said he crosses into Mexico two or three times a week. There may be illegal crossings, but Gutierrez said he's seen few confrontations involving Border Patrol.

From what he's heard about Monday's incident, he thinks the shooting was excessive.

"Shooting at somebody throwing rocks is too much," he said.

Despite the Mexican government's outrage at the shooting, disapproval on the Juárez side of the bridge seems mild.

"There was no need to shoot," said Benjamin Garcia as he sat in the shade of an awning in the 104-degree heat in Juárez. But he said there isn't much public outrage.

In his block, expressionless soldiers stood with machine guns amid the pharmacies, a dentist's office, liquor store, a sports book and one of the saddest-looking dogs ever. The soldiers are there to protect pedestrians from a drug war that's claimed more than 5,300 lives in the city since 2008.

That war seems a lot more important to people in Juárez than Monday's shooting.

- more at link

http://www.lcsun-news.com/ci_15265670?source=most_viewed

Arturo Sandoval, spokesman for the Chihuahua state attorney general's office, said Hernandez's criminal history is also being investigated. Officials said that a person younger than 14 cannot be arrested in Mexico

A cell phone video filmed during the fatal shooting was aired Wednesday evening on news programs on the Spanish-language Univision television network.

The grainy video shows about four men crossing the almost dry riverbed toward a fence on the U.S. side of the Rio Grande. The men then run back toward Mexico when a Border Patrol agent arrives on a bicycle and stops one man at gunpoint on the U.S. side of the concrete riverbank.

While the agent has the man on the ground, it appears at least one man with a white shirt makes a throwing motion. The video does not show what the other men are doing. The agent points his gun toward Mexico before several gunshots are heard. A body can then be seen lying on the ground under the railroad Black Bridge.

"Estan tirando piedras. Le dio, el estipido, le dio," a person says on the video. Translated, "They are throwing rocks. He hit him, that stupid one, hit him."

The video also showed the arrival of Mexican police with guns drawn before insults can be heard being yelled.

An FBI spokeswoman told the Associated Press said that Mexican soldiers pointed their rifles and chased away U.S. Border Patrol agents after the shooting.

Three Juarez bridge vendors interviewed Wednesday said they saw the Border Patrol agent shoot Hernandez and disputed claims that the teenager threatened the agent.

"The kid wasn't throwing rocks," Estelle Gonzalez said. "He was only watching."

Gonzalez sells hats on the Paso del Norte Bridge and she and some other vendors witnessed Monday's confrontation from there.

Edgar Martinez, 32, and Luis Rodriguez Rosales, 27, also said Hernandez wasn't throwing anything.

"He was shooting like crazy," Gonzalez said of the agent, adding that he fired three shots.

The Border Patrol hasn't identified the agent.

- more at link

[The 12th Commandment]

Hypocrisy, thy name is Mexico.

Do you really have that narrow of a view on things? Try to imagine the situation reversed, I mean other countries think their view point is just as correct as we do and have folks that make the argument just as blindly as you do that we are at fault for most the trouble they have to deal with at the border. It's not so simple or black and white as you allow yourself to believe.

[Hubbs]

HH, I think you need some of Barack Obama's Chill Pills:

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[Predicto]

Here are a couple links from the local take on it. Hard to defend shooting a guy throwing rocks although if you're hit by one it could do serious damage and death is not out of the question. I have to wonder why they just didn't back out of range and let the situation de-escalate?

Why are you reading other news accounts? This is OUR border, not Mexico's!

No way can there be two sides of any story. You have just taken the side of the criminals.

It is much more important to rush to judgment, get outraged and claim hypocricy.

After all, United States Law Enforcement would never, ever draw its guns on anyone, expecially not in a confusing situation at the border after an American youth has been shot to death.

This can only be viewed as a calculated insult toward America, clouded by biased lib media reporting. Again. It makes me so angry! :tantrum:

[HailGreen28]

Do you really have that narrow of a view on things? Try to imagine the situation reversed, I mean other countries think their view point is just as correct as we do and have folks that make the argument just as blindly as you do that we are at fault for most the trouble they have to deal with at the border. It's not so simple or black and white as you allow yourself to believe.

So do you stupidly believe that we should adopt MEXICO's immigration policy? :evilg:

Hint: It's tougher than Arizona's.

[Teller]

So do you stupidly believe that we should adopt MEXICO's immigration policy? :evilg:

Hint: It's tougher than Arizona's.

GTFO out of here! It is? I can't sneak across the border, get a job, ship their money back here, and have them go after their own business that hired me (whilst they contemplate the best way to make me a Mexican citizen?)

Are you serious????

*edit* Isn't there a word for that? Starts with an "H?"

[Predicto]

Are you serious????

*edit* Isn't there a word for that? Starts with an "H?"

err starts with H?

"Honorary_hog?" :pfft:

[Teller]

err starts with H?

"Honorary_hog?" :pfft:

Do you really still think this is funny?

[rocazares]

Oh boy, this s*** is the bread of everyday at the border.

What can I say? Really guys I said before and said it again, I'm not a racist guy versus the USA even not a Pro-Yankee.

Talking about the Arizona law I believe is hard to understand down here.

The issue is a boy dead, a border patrol officer who pull the trigger.

Yesterday I was chating about this with GF and I express myself against the boy's dead and against the other guys who throw rocks.

First, what the hell they were doing? they want to cross?

Second, OK, they got me or they got my friend, just run (to the side you want), BUT throw rocks to the officers?????????????? to try to help the other to scape??????

A big rock at the head can cause a big damage, even can kill you.

Third, for what I saw on the newspaper the shot was at the head :S, why not at the arms or the legs? C'mon, is something similar like the dead of the marine in Baltimore. Deadly force.

The end of this issue will be ... everybody will forget this :S

About border concerns, believe it or not I don't support mexican laws and whinnings (spell?) against USA, because at our border with Belice the killings, rapes, robbery from mexican officers is ... A BIG S***.

Even at the north of the city arrives the train from Central America, and no one do something to stop all the abuses against, salvadoreños, guatamaltecos, hondureños even mexicans ...

Damn!

[SnyderShrugged]

Oh boy, this s*** is the bread of everyday at the border.

What can I say? Really guys I said before and said it again, I'm not a racist guy versus the USA even not a Pro-Yankee.

Talking about the Arizona law I believe is hard to understand down here.

The issue is a boy dead, a border patrol officer who pull the trigger.

Yesterday I was chating about this with GF and I express myself against the boy's dead and against the other guys who throw rocks.

First, what the hell they were doing? they want to cross?

Second, OK, they got me or they got my friend, just run (to the side you want), BUT throw rocks to the officers?????????????? to try to help the other to scape??????

A big rock at the head can cause a big damage, even can kill you.

Third, for what I saw on the newspaper the shot was at the head :S, why not at the arms or the legs? C'mon, is something similar like the dead of the marine in Baltimore. Deadly force.

The end of this issue will be ... everybody will forget this :S

About border concerns, believe it or not I don't support mexican laws and whinnings (spell?) against USA, because at our border with Belice the killings, rapes, robbery from mexican officers is ... A BIG S***.

Even at the north of the city arrives the train from Central America, and no one do something to stop all the abuses against, salvadoreños, guatamaltecos, hondureños even mexicans ...

Damn!

Its really great to have your perspective on this. Thanks!

[Predicto]

Do you really still think this is funny?

Not at all. A young boy is dead. It is a tragedy.

What I think is funny is the idea that someone could get outraged at the idea that law enforcement (on either side of the border) might pull its guns out in a tense situation like this. You seem to think that we are the only side allowed to have law enforcement with guns.

Plus then you threw in speculation about racial epithets by the other guys, and advocate preemptively shooting anyone who crosses, and then your blood pressure rises to a boil and oh the humanity!!!!

That's what's funny.

[Redskins Diehard]

Not at all. A young boy is dead. It is a tragedy.

There is a thread about that. I think this thread was about the Mexican forces drawing their weapons on the FBI trying to figure out exactly what happened that caused that young boy to die. Not speaking for Hog, but that is what I have the problem with. And the hypocrisy is the Mexican stance about how it is wrong to kill that young boy for throwing rocks, or simply crossing the border, and then turning around and drawing on our law enforcement for investigating it. Usually a weapon pointing at you is sufficient reason to go ahead and shoot the threat holding that weapon. Good thing the FBI is so professional in matters like this.

[Predicto]

Oh boy, this s*** is the bread of everyday at the border.

What can I say? Really guys I said before and said it again, I'm not a racist guy versus the USA even not a Pro-Yankee.

Talking about the Arizona law I believe is hard to understand down here.

The issue is a boy dead, a border patrol officer who pull the trigger.

Yesterday I was chating about this with GF and I express myself against the boy's dead and against the other guys who throw rocks.

First, what the hell they were doing? they want to cross?

Second, OK, they got me or they got my friend, just run (to the side you want), BUT throw rocks to the officers?????????????? to try to help the other to scape??????

A big rock at the head can cause a big damage, even can kill you.

Third, for what I saw on the newspaper the shot was at the head :S, why not at the arms or the legs? C'mon, is something similar like the dead of the marine in Baltimore. Deadly force.

The end of this issue will be ... everybody will forget this :S

About border concerns, believe it or not I don't support mexican laws and whinnings (spell?) against USA, because at our border with Belice the killings, rapes, robbery from mexican officers is ... A BIG S***.

Even at the north of the city arrives the train from Central America, and no one do something to stop all the abuses against, salvadoreños, guatamaltecos, hondureños even mexicans ...

Damn!

Thank you for your perspective. I hope you guys can get a handle on things down there soon.

[Redskins Diehard]

Not at all. A young boy is dead. It is a tragedy.

What I think is funny is the idea that someone could get outraged at the idea that law enforcement (on either side of the border) might pull its guns out in a tense situation like this. You seem to think that we are the only side allowed to have law enforcement with guns.

Plus then you threw in speculation about racial epithets by the other guys, and advocate preemptively shooting anyone who crosses, and then your blood pressure rises to a boil and oh the humanity!!!!

That's what's funny.

Drawing a weapon is an aggressive and threatening act. And in this situation absolutely uncalled for.

[Predicto]

There is a thread about that. I think this thread was about the Mexican forces drawing their weapons on the FBI trying to figure out exactly what happened that caused that young boy to die. Not speaking for Hog, but that is what I have the problem with. And the hypocrisy is the Mexican stance about how it is wrong to kill that young boy for throwing rocks, or simply crossing the border, and then turning around and drawing on our law enforcement for investigating it. Usually a weapon pointing at you is sufficient reason to go ahead and shoot the threat holding that weapon. Good thing the FBI is so professional in matters like this.

Yes, but when law enforcement meets law enforcement in a chaiotic situation, weapons can get drawn. Everyone stood down, just like they were supposed to.

Why the outrage now? Because they are just Mexican police, not real police?

You think our guys have never drawn their guns on Mexican police on the border before?

[Predicto]

Drawing a weapon is an aggressive and threatening act. And in this situation absolutely uncalled for.

I don't know or understand this situation very well at all. None of us do. The story says that both sides drew their guns and that there are several accounts of what happened that night that are very different.

Hernández was found 20 feet inside Mexico, and an autopsy revealed that the fatal shot was fired at a relatively close range, according to Arturo Sandoval, a spokesman for the Chihuahua state attorney general's office. Mexican authorities said a .40-caliber shell casing was found near the body, suggesting that the Border Patrol agent might have crossed into Mexico to shoot the boy.

That would violate the rules for Border Patrol agents, who are supposed to stay on the U.S. side – and could open the agent to a Mexican homicide prosecution.

If the Mexicans thought that our border patrol guys were rogue officers trying to get back the evidence of a crime they had committed, I would understand why they pulled their guns.

Point is - we don't know. None of us know exactly what happened. I'm glad it turned out ok (except for the dead kid). That's all.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

It is very, very important to remember that those Mexican officers wage war everyday. If you are a Mexican police officer, looking out across the border, and you see men with guns, your first instinct will be "Cartels!" It will not be "Americans!"