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Dallas Morning News: FBI says Mexican forces pointed guns at investigators of border shooting


heyholetsgogrant

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I consider aiding and abetting millions of illegals to cross into our country by the Mexican gov't a form of takeover, thus should be considered an act of war. Its scary to think of how many radical extremists have posed as illegals to gain safe entry into our country only to find cozy sanctuary cities to set up shop in complete with food and housing. We allow then fund our own peril. Gotta love liberalism.

No, please, go on. What form should this U.S. military action take? Ground troops? Air strikes? What are the targets and locations? What's the goal? I really want to hear this. Prove to me you're not one of those people carrying a hammer who think every problem is a nail.

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No, please, go on. What form should this U.S. military action take? Ground troops? Air strikes? What are the targets and locations? What's the goal? I really want to hear this. Prove to me you're not one of those people carrying a hammer who think every problem is a nail.

Ground troops comprised of reserves and volunteers on rotating 6 month tours all along the border. Base camps, fences, towers and tanks.2 mile deep shoot to kill zone that spans the border. Stop all electronic fund transfers from the US to Mexico. Blockade their ports, cut off all tourism and give the illegals in this country 60 days to vacate the country, no questions asked. After this time they will be sought after and if caught will serve a maximum of 3 years at Guantanamo Bay before deportation. In a show of compassion the women and children will only be deported.

After all of this I would give the Mexican gov't 6 months to acknowledge our laws and borders before I began Shock and Awe part II. Complete with a new democratic gov't whose views directly align with those of the US.

Now how about you proving to me your not one of those people who think every problem can be solved with roasted marshmallows and pillow talk.

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:yikes:

Woowww ...

Ground troops comprised of reserves and volunteers on rotating 6 month tours all along the border. Base camps, fences, towers and tanks.2 mile deep shoot to kill zone that spans the border. Stop all electronic fund transfers from the US to Mexico. Blockade their ports, cut off all tourism and give the illegals in this country 60 days to vacate the country, no questions asked. After this time they will be sought after and if caught will serve a maximum of 3 years at Guantanamo Bay before deportation. In a show of compassion the women and children will only be deported.

After all of this I would give the Mexican gov't 6 months to acknowledge our laws and borders before I began Shock and Awe part II. Complete with a new democratic gov't whose views directly align with those of the US.

Now how about you proving to me your not one of those people who think every problem can be solved with roasted marshmallows and pillow talk.

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Ground troops comprised of reserves and volunteers on rotating 6 month tours all along the border. Base camps, fences, towers and tanks.2 mile deep shoot to kill zone that spans the border. Stop all electronic fund transfers from the US to Mexico. Blockade their ports, cut off all tourism and give the illegals in this country 60 days to vacate the country, no questions asked. After this time they will be sought after and if caught will serve a maximum of 3 years at Guantanamo Bay before deportation. In a show of compassion the women and children will only be deported.

After all of this I would give the Mexican gov't 6 months to acknowledge our laws and borders before I began Shock and Awe part II. Complete with a new democratic gov't whose views directly align with those of the US.

Now how about you proving to me your not one of those people who think every problem can be solved with roasted marshmallows and pillow talk.

Welcome back, Sarge

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Ground troops comprised of reserves and volunteers on rotating 6 month tours all along the border. Base camps, fences, towers and tanks.2 mile deep shoot to kill zone that spans the border. Stop all electronic fund transfers from the US to Mexico. Blockade their ports, cut off all tourism and give the illegals in this country 60 days to vacate the country, no questions asked. After this time they will be sought after and if caught will serve a maximum of 3 years at Guantanamo Bay before deportation. In a show of compassion the women and children will only be deported.

After all of this I would give the Mexican gov't 6 months to acknowledge our laws and borders before I began Shock and Awe part II. Complete with a new democratic gov't whose views directly align with those of the US.

Now how about you proving to me your not one of those people who think every problem can be solved with roasted marshmallows and pillow talk.

So your plan is to a impose naval blockade along thousands of miles of coastline of a close ally, round up hundreds of thousands if not millions of people and put them in a prison designed for a couple thousand, inflict a crippling (for both nations) EFT freeze, set up a shooting gallery along the border, and then start a land war...

What could possibly go wrong with that? :thumbsup:

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So your plan is to a impose naval blockade along thousands of miles of coastline of a close ally, round up hundreds of thousands if not millions of people and put them in a prison designed for a couple thousand, inflict a crippling (for both nations) EFT freeze, set up a shooting gallery along the border, and then start a land war...

What could possibly go wrong with that? :thumbsup:

And your plan is not to answer his question, after he gave you the respect of answering yours? (Which I personally wouldn't have done, given that you are under the assumption that he has something prove to you.)

You've accomplished the easy part. Are you going to take on the hard one?

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Doesn't much matter what's written down on paper there, Mexico's border policy can be summed in one symbol $
So why shouldn't we do the same? If it's all about the $, why don't we deny illegal aliens and their children access to various social services?

And just to make the earlier point clear: The Arizona laws that Mexico is whining about, are less severe than Mexico's own immigration policies.

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After all of this I would give the Mexican gov't 6 months to acknowledge our laws and borders before I began Shock and Awe part II. Complete with a new democratic gov't whose views directly align with those of the US.

:ols::ols::ols:

Yes. What we do best - installing favorable Democratic governments in foreign countries. What could go wrong? :ols:

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And your plan is not to answer his question, after he gave you the respect of answering yours? (Which I personally wouldn't have done, given that you are under the assumption that he has something prove to you.)

You've accomplished the easy part. Are you going to take on the hard one?

hog, I wouldn't presume to know how to resolve the problems with illegal immigration along the Southwest Border. But I am pretty sure that starting a war with Mexico isn't the most brilliant strategy to go with.

From the perspective of yahoos like us on a sports message board, your statement:

"The answer is certainly somewhere between the Rambo-style "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" and the pansy "just prosecute US employers and everything will be fine" doctrine.

is probably as close to any answer that I would give.

But I really wanted to hear more about his call to arms. "Operation Hammer Time." And it amuses me that anyone disagreeing with his strategy must be some sort of liberal wuss.

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"The answer is certainly somewhere between the Rambo-style "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" and the pansy "just prosecute US employers and everything will be fine" doctrine.

is probably as close to any answer that I would give.

I'm glad to hear that you're somewhere in the middle. I think that's the best approach for all of us to take.

But like I said, it's easy to criticize a guy whose approach is heavy-handed. It's far more difficult to offer a counter-proposal that might work.

With all respect, I'd ask you, still, to offer said counter-proposal. Don't be afraid to be wrong. Most of us, including myself, would suggest ideas that are largely wrong, or ineffective.

But offering up the idea opens up debate. Which, IMO, is healthy and productive. I understand there's a tendency to jump all over people who say something we disagree with in the Tailgate right now. But if you can brush aside the haters, you'll likely get some good debate too. And maybe, just maybe, something MOST of us can agree on.

Not trying to give you a hard time, Dan. But this is an issue that means a lot to me, and I'm anxious to hear what my fellow ES'ers would do to solve it; and to see if there's significant common ground out there.

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Ground troops comprised of reserves and volunteers on rotating 6 month tours all along the border. Base camps, fences, towers and tanks.2 mile deep shoot to kill zone that spans the border. Stop all electronic fund transfers from the US to Mexico. Blockade their ports, cut off all tourism and give the illegals in this country 60 days to vacate the country, no questions asked. After this time they will be sought after and if caught will serve a maximum of 3 years at Guantanamo Bay before deportation. In a show of compassion the women and children will only be deported.

After all of this I would give the Mexican gov't 6 months to acknowledge our laws and borders before I began Shock and Awe part II. Complete with a new democratic gov't whose views directly align with those of the US.

Now how about you proving to me your not one of those people who think every problem can be solved with roasted marshmallows and pillow talk.

Wow. You are certainly out there my fellow poster.

But considering that Mexico is our neighbor and an ally, it's probably not a good idea to resort to warfare. The US, being a capitalistic society could not really afford the sanctions that would be imposed by other nations in response to this sort of an act of aggression. I would imagine our imports and exports would be seriously curtailed. Most likely the national oil reserve would once again be dipped into thus increasing an ever climbing price for energy.

Probably, a better option would be some sort of better border control, some sort of amnesty for those in the country, and aggressive enforcement of current laws against business' that hire illegal aliens.

There are no clear cut answers for such a fluid situation, but I can be sure that your suggestion is one that would make the US weaker than stronger.

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So why shouldn't we do the same? If it's all about the $, why don't we deny illegal aliens and their children access to various social services?

And just to make the earlier point clear: The Arizona laws that Mexico is whining about, are less severe than Mexico's own immigration policies.

Well that's an option, but how about collecting all or part of the $5K they pay the coyote as a processing fee and then collect taxes from them when they can use a valid SS number? There is no law in Mexico that dictates the street level police check any papers at all, not even that paper used to take care of the mordida.

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Wow. You are certainly out there my fellow poster.

But considering that Mexico is our neighbor and an ally, it's probably not a good idea to resort to warfare. The US, being a capitalistic society could not really afford the sanctions that would be imposed by other nations in response to this sort of an act of aggression. I would imagine our imports and exports would be seriously curtailed. Most likely the national oil reserve would once again be dipped into thus increasing an ever climbing price for energy.

Probably, a better option would be some sort of better border control, some sort of amnesty for those in the country, and aggressive enforcement of current laws against business' that hire illegal aliens.

There are no clear cut answers for such a fluid situation, but I can be sure that your suggestion is one that would make the US weaker than stronger.

AND MAKING THE CURRENT PROCESS FOR GETTING IN LEGALLY MORE NAVIGABLE THAN AN UNDERWATER ROBOT TRYING TO PLUG THE LEAK IN THE GULF! yes, I was shouting.

Immigration reform is the elephant in the room and would alleviate 90+% of the illegal crossers making the rest obviously really bad guys and thus a more forceful response appropriate. That would make the just shoot'em crowd happy and prevent regular families from having to risk their life (and life savings) to cross illegally.

It cracks me up in a way to see all these folks who have never been within a thousand miles of the border saying how feasible it would be to seal the border. It isn't I drive along it often and you can't appreciate the scale and geography of this landscape unless you spend some time here. Why don't we seal the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan? That would save a whole lot more American lives but it's equally impossible (or unfeasible).

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AND MAKING THE CURRENT PROCESS FOR GETTING IN LEGALLY MORE NAVIGABLE THAN AN UNDERWATER ROBOT TRYING TO PLUG THE LEAK IN THE GULF! yes, I was shouting.

Immigration reform is the elephant in the room and would alleviate 90+% of the illegal crossers making the rest obviously really bad guys and thus a more forceful response appropriate. That would make the just shoot'em crowd happy and prevent regular families from having to risk their life (and life savings) to cross illegally.

It cracks me up in a way to see all these folks who have never been within a thousand miles of the border saying how feasible it would be to seal the border. It isn't I drive along it often and you can't appreciate the scale and geography of this landscape unless you spend some time here. Why don't we seal the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan? That would save a whole lot more American lives but it's equally impossible (or unfeasible).

It's impossible to seal our border with Mexico. Well I guess they could build a mammoth wall and place instrumentation to detect any tunnels being dug under the wall. But what about all of the ports and beaches along the gulf coast and in California?

There is no easy solution, and in these economic times, we have to take a realistic approach rather than "shock and awe II". Immigration reform is needed, but the sticky wickett is just how do we go about it.

I think we need to

1) enforce the laws currently on the books. That probably means hiring more immigration agents and border patrol agents. going after business owners who are hiring illegals and assessing punishments that would cause other business owners to think twice.

2) enact some form of amnesty for those here with no criminal record. Levy a fine for the illegal crossing with a clear path to citizenship detailing what these people need to do in specific time periods to reach the goal of attaining citizenship. If you have a criminal record, your either deported if the crime is serious, or given an alternative path depending on the circumstances of that record.

3) Work with our neighbors in the south to improve their economies. You can tie this aid to benchmarks in drug trafficing, human rights or other standards agreed to by all legislative bodies.

4) continue to monitor aspects of immigration and if it's working while making changes needed.

There is no set solution, but I believe if we were to attempt this, we might be able to make some progress.

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It's impossible to seal our border with Mexico. Well I guess they could build a mammoth wall and place instrumentation to detect any tunnels being dug under the wall. But what about all of the ports and beaches along the gulf coast and in California?

There is no easy solution, and in these economic times, we have to take a realistic approach rather than "shock and awe II". Immigration reform is needed, but the sticky wickett is just how do we go about it.

I think we need to

1) enforce the laws currently on the books. That probably means hiring more immigration agents and border patrol agents. going after business owners who are hiring illegals and assessing punishments that would cause other business owners to think twice.

2) enact some form of amnesty for those here with no criminal record. Levy a fine for the illegal crossing with a clear path to citizenship detailing what these people need to do in specific time periods to reach the goal of attaining citizenship. If you have a criminal record, your either deported if the crime is serious, or given an alternative path depending on the circumstances of that record.

3) Work with our neighbors in the south to improve their economies. You can tie this aid to benchmarks in drug trafficing, human rights or other standards agreed to by all legislative bodies.

4) continue to monitor aspects of immigration and if it's working while making changes needed.

There is no set solution, but I believe if we were to attempt this, we might be able to make some progress.

Too many people seem to need someone to blame. For what? Everything that isn't rosey it seems. Otherwise the common sense and practicality of your suggestions would be as obviously clear to everyone as they are to you and I.

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Well that's an option, but how about collecting all or part of the $5K they pay the coyote as a processing fee and then collect taxes from them when they can use a valid SS number? There is no law in Mexico that dictates the street level police check any papers at all, not even that paper used to take care of the mordida.
Won't work, because there's trouble for the immigrants if they DON'T pay the mordida (That's BRIBE to us folks north of the border) to hop across the border anyways.

And this talk of money brings up the crux of the matter for the US interests. It's great that people come here seeking a better life, to provide for their families by looking for work over here. We should WANT most of them to become citizens here. But there are problems.

Two problems (probably a lot more just the two I can think of) are: 1. the crime, like the coyotes and the massive corruption in Mexico where the mordida is a simple fact of life.

2. The money drain. Everybody from the coyotes to corrupt local "authorities" gets their cut, the Mexican government (cash immigrants send from the US back to Mexico is the third largest source of income for Mexico), all except the US. Getting green cards and citizenships to be required by immigrants, so they're at least chipping into the system that supports them and their children while they're here, would be a welcome start. Same with their employers here having to report them as labor or on the payroll.

And we have problem with mexican youths in gangs already. Not to say there aren't already black and even mixed race and white gangs already. But we sure as hell don't want the situation with the drug gangs that Mexico has. It's a valid concern, only fueled by allowing the underground movement of illegal immigration.

But Mexico doesn't have a damn thing to say about how we do it.

Again: Hypocrisy, thy name is Mexico.

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If the Mexican people are truly outraged at the US and hate us, they should refuse to come into our country anymore.

That's what I would do

.....

Just as we're outraged at them and won't go there anymore? Oh wait, that might apply to you but it doesn't to me. Hmmm, maybe they're not all the same either. I believe you know better than applying simplistic generalizations to Mexican's or anyone else.

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Ground troops comprised of reserves and volunteers on rotating 6 month tours all along the border. Base camps, fences, towers and tanks.2 mile deep shoot to kill zone that spans the border. Stop all electronic fund transfers from the US to Mexico. Blockade their ports, cut off all tourism and give the illegals in this country 60 days to vacate the country, no questions asked. After this time they will be sought after and if caught will serve a maximum of 3 years at Guantanamo Bay before deportation. In a show of compassion the women and children will only be deported.

After all of this I would give the Mexican gov't 6 months to acknowledge our laws and borders before I began Shock and Awe part II. Complete with a new democratic gov't whose views directly align with those of the US.

Now how about you proving to me your not one of those people who think every problem can be solved with roasted marshmallows and pillow talk.

Yeah, I totally agree. After all, history shows nothing BUT positive outcomes when a nation opens wars on multiple fronts.

Enough of the knee jerk. How about actually thinking things through?

In your scenario, the big bad US can open front after front, engage enemy after enemy, all at the same time, regardless of the fact that would indeed be akin to world war III in terms of scope and combatants. I believe strongly that were we to do that, the other troublemakers would sieze the opportunity.

Now, I'm Kim Jong Il. I see the US stretching thin, and decide to sink another SKorean cruiser. Whatchoo gonna do meester American?

I am Ahmadinejad. I see the US engaging on multiple fronts, so I ratchet up my crap.. Whatchoo gonna do meester American?

I am the Chinese, and I see the US throwing more money into wars. and I realize that they can't afford it, and are probably going to default on all the loans I've given them. Am I going to take that lying down, or am I going to force the issue?

Should we just draft every citizen? Do you not see how spreading yourself thin like this only enables your enemy to defeat you easier?

I'm dead-set against illegals and I completely agree it is a situation that needs a serious plan. I also completely agree that the Mexicans and their government show absolutely zero respect for us, our border, and our friendship, and that indeed angers me.

But one thing at a time. Otherwise we run the risk of going the way of the Romans. Exhausted, strung out and sacked by our enemies.

~Bang

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Just as we're outraged at them and won't go there anymore? Oh wait, that might apply to you but it doesn't to me. Hmmm, maybe they're not all the same either. I believe you know better than applying simplistic generalizations to Mexican's or anyone else.

*scratches head*

You've been here long enough to know that zoony had his tongue planted firmly in his cheek with that one.

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