Battle Royal Among Journeymen on the OL

[BD]

I agree with the original post in all but one area: I think Rinehart is gone. He doesn't fit the scheme, he really can't play Tackle, and he wasn't one of the guys on the field as a starter at minicamp (Heyer was).

Heyer, as much as we think he sucks, is still a young guy and probably your first backup at either tackle position. So:

T - Trent Williams, Artis Hicks, Selvish Capers, Stephon Heyer

G - Derrick Dockery, Mike Williams, Kory Lichtensteiger, and Eric Cook.

C - Casey Rabach, Kory Lichtensteiger, and Eric Cook.

[Superbowl Mohawk]

A good read sir, thank you! Like Kyle Shannahan says we got some people who can play O-Line. We all know we are NOT going to be a top ten O-Line. I can envision us though, being in between 16-25 which is up from our 28th ranking last year I think...?

[TheLongshot]

I agree with the original post in all but one area: I think Rinehart is gone. He doesn't fit the scheme, he really can't play Tackle, and he wasn't one of the guys on the field as a starter at minicamp (Heyer was).

I don't know how much you can read on that right now, particularly since it seems to more reflect on how highly they think of BMW rather than being down on Rinehart. Given that he's a former tackle, he might be more of a fit in the ZBS than some people think.

Here's how I have things right now.

Locks unless something happens to change things:

Rabach

Dockery

Hicks

BMW

Heyer

T. Williams

That leaves 3-4 spots for the rest:

Centers:

--------

Montgomery

E. Williams

Cook

It depends if they want to go with the experienced backup or a young guy with upside. At least one of these guys should make it.

Guards:

-------

Rinehart

Lichtensteiger

Fanaika

Lichtensteiger is listed as a guard on the team roster, so that's where he's listed here. He can play center, so he has more versatility than Rinehart.

Tackles:

--------

Capers

Oldenburg

Robinson

This is why Heyer is a lock, barring any other signings. His experience is head and shoulders above any of these guys. I don't know if any of these guys will make the final roster.

[Superbowl Mohawk]

Okay Chico... you ready to feel da Razor's Edge...? Ju krazee man.

These Clowns were just too good to pass up on.

[darrelgreenie]

As I look over the list I think the Skins are fine at Center and Guard but OT may be still an issue.

I think the Skins have decided that the trade off of physicality vs stability and leadership at the Center spot is acceptable.

Behind Rabach we have Will Montgomery and Edwin Williams both of have a couple starts and can play G, then there's unproven Corey Lichtensteiger (who comes from Shanahan's Denver ZBS and ® Cook.

I also agree that we're better off at guard then any OL position we have 1 above average starter in Dockery.

And based on the his performance at Right Guard and the statements by his coaches Forsester and Shanahan (and Doc Walker who called it last year) Mike Williams could be at the very least an average RG if not above average.

Then the depth at that position are all young guys that have a few starts under their belts Rinehart, Edwin Williams, and to a less extent Will Montgomery.

How many of the Tackles could be counted on to play LT (even as a backup)? If all except Trent Williams are at best RT then Skins might need to go out and find a better Tackle at the cost of Capers or Rinehart (most likely Rinehart given the other players on the roster at Guard positions).

I'm not sure if you purposely forgot about Heyer.

And maybe your opinion of Heyer is colored by his performance from last year where he was playing through a major injury.

But, Heyer would have started the season off as our LT and the staff was okay with that.

If you look at what the coaches have said about Heyer and you look at his play when he was healthy in 2008 Heyer was actually better at LT then RT.

What do you guys think?

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=320749

LT-Trent William:C with great upside

LG-Docery:B

C-Rabach:C could be better because of scheme fit

RG-Mike Williams:C with upside

RT-Artis Hicks/Heyer:C+ with upside

Reserves:

Heyer/Hicks LT/RT: C+

Edwin Williams C/G: C

Will Montgomery C/G: D/C-

Capers OT:???

Do the Skins take the risk of putting their low round draft picks on the practice squad or do they dump holdovers from the old administration since they have nothing invested in them?

I think Capers has a great chance to make the squad.

If Eric Cook can provide depth at C/G then i think Will Montgomery, Rinehart and Lichtensteiger are in trouble.

BTW-Good thread, imo there can never be enough good OL talk

[SWFLSkins]

Isn't it "Battle Royale"?

Hey what do they call a quarter pounder in France/.

Good thread and it should stick around.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Hey what do they call a quarter pounder in France/.

A Royale with cheese.

Best

Film

EVER!

Hail.

[TheLongshot]

Isn't it "Battle Royale"?

No, that would be Japanese teenagers with explosive collars around their necks trying to kill each other.

[s0crates]

The offensive line is certainly looking better theses days, and hopefully the amount of competition for roster spots helps to maximize their potential.

There are still concerns about this unit, but I remain optimistic. Shannahan always had good offensive lines in Denver, and it is quite clear that he is in the process addressing the line.

I do not dare to speculate which of the many bodies in camp make the cut, or who will emerge as starters, but I am feeling better about our line than I have in years.

[wilburmarshall]

Good post, and I would agree w/ almost everything that you say, but...just because the draft is over, people should not think that this is the roster that we will go into training camp, or into the season, with. There will be players cut from other teams, and other players available for trade. If the opportunity presents itself for us to improve in an area where they think there is a need, they will make the move.

[big z]

can any of our centers long snap or is old timer Albright gonna be given a call eventually?

[Braxford]

I personally think the key guys to making this line below average to okay instead of terrible are Rabach, Lichsteiger and Hicks. If Rabach can hold up and Lichsteiger can surprise and start or spot start that would be great because of his ZBS experience. Hicks is solid and should be a better option than Heyer at RT and he is not ancient. Just my thoughts though.

[TheLongshot]

can any of our centers long snap or is old timer Albright gonna be given a call eventually?

Right now, Nick Sundberg is the only LS on the team.

[Skin'Em84]

Actually, both Rinehart and BMW did well in the guard spot when they played. The problem there last year was that they couldn't settle in and make the position theirs. BMW now gets a full offseason to adjust to the new position and will push Rinehart for the position.

I think we are "fine" at Center, mainly from the fact that Rabach is the established starter, and despite what fan perception of him is, coaching staffs seem to love him, including the current one. We also have a veteran backup in Montgomery and a few young guys (E. Williams, Lichtensteiger, Cook) who can play center, so we have our developmental options right now.

I feel like Rabach's strength at Center is his intelligence. I remember reading in Cooley's blog (I know, not a great source) that he seems to know blocking assignments really well, and since centers can call audibles for the line, I think that may be why we keep him.

[RabidFan]

Dock played right guard in college and is better suited for that side...we made him play LG cause we had a healthy and younger randy thomas back then.

lets hope edwin williams can takeover at center unless cook beatshim out....put one on the PS

[bulldog]

I don't think the Redskins are done.

It may be the case that Trent Williams starts off the season at RT or even on the bench for the first few games as he further learns the NFL.

I would not be surprised to see the Redskins sign a veteran OT who can be a spot starter on the left side for those first 4-6 games and then move to RT or become the top backup.

If that happens I don't see Heyer making the team.

[PlayAction]

Good post, and I would agree w/ almost everything that you say, but...just because the draft is over, people should not think that this is the roster that we will go into training camp, or into the season, with. There will be players cut from other teams, and other players available for trade. If the opportunity presents itself for us to improve in an area where they think there is a need, they will make the move.

True, it's possible that Skins could pick up another player via trade or waiver wire. But, I'd be surprised if anyone of recognizable quality gets cut (unless very old). Still, if a team has an excess of quality RTs they might be willing to swap players, e.g., Rocky if coaches feel he no longer fits the scheme.

BTW - was 9 (not counting long snapper) a good estimate for OL roster? I think 10 is too much considering the need for other positions. 8 seemed to low given the Skins injury history.

[TotalRecall]

I think Williams will start at RG, unless the younger guards can greatly impress.

Heyer re-signed. I think he's staying at least as a back-up.

I wouldn't hold too much stock in the 7th round rookies making more than the practice squad.

[redskindan07]

Has anyone heard anything new about Flozell Adams or Kevin Mawae?

[Veretax]

I agree with the analysis except on Kory Lichtensteiger I don't see how he makes the team unless one of Cook, or Rabach gets hurt. No way do we keep 3 centers just because we can keep 3 centers. I'd rather keep Rhino over one of those two.

The real problem is the injury bug. Yes we are younger now on the OL, but We lost two or three guy slast year, what if someone like Rabach goes down in Camp? One injury and you could be scrambling to fill positions. And no I hope that never happens, but you just never know, i mean look what happened to our DL 2 years ago, Daniels, and Buzzbee down in the same day?

[PlayAction]

I agree with the analysis except on Kory Lichtensteiger I don't see how he makes the team unless one of Cook, or Rabach gets hurt. No way do we keep 3 centers just because we can keep 3 centers. I'd rather keep Rhino over one of those two.

QUOTE]

Lichtensteiger was a college C but he played Guard with the Broncos. It will be nice to see some of these guys play but it's a long time till preseason.

[darrelgreenie]

I agree with the analysis except on Kory Lichtensteiger I don't see how he makes the team unless one of Cook, or Rabach gets hurt. No way do we keep 3 centers just because we can keep 3 centers. I'd rather keep Rhino over one of those two.

The real problem is the injury bug. Yes we are younger now on the OL, but We lost two or three guy slast year, what if someone like Rabach goes down in Camp? One injury and you could be scrambling to fill positions. And no I hope that never happens, but you just never know, i mean look what happened to our DL 2 years ago, Daniels, and Buzzbee down in the same day?

The injury bug tore the OL apart: Samuels, Randy Thomas, Rinehart, Stephon Heyer, Mike Williams

I think the injury bug was exxacerbated by the fact that although we identified OL as an area of need in the 2009 offseason we did nothing other then making a lateral move at LG to address the situation.

We went into the season counting on 2 aging former pro-bowl caliber players that were coming off surgery and 2 injury plagued seasons and it seemed like the Skins were unprepared. (unlike most fans who considered it a question of when not if they would get injured)when they got hurt.

[Veretax]

I'm just saying, those injuries came in the season, you just never know what could happen.

[PlayAction]

I'm just saying, those injuries came in the season, you just never know what could happen.

Some players become injury prone and that should be taken into account whether they can keep a roster spot. But the team needs to plan for injuries since you never know when they can happen or to whom. The backups need to be able to play at least for a game or two as opposed to the Buges plan which called for the starter to play when he could only go 70%.

[Art McDonough]

There is no doubt the offensive line is going to be a crucial area this year. IMO we have no one locked in as a starter. Dockery has been nothing to brag about and Rabach is about at the end. I really hope some of these younger players will step up to the plate and come together as a unit. Rinehart, Heyer, E. Williams, come to mind. It goes without saying that the offensive line is not only about individual talent but collective teamwork. Shanahan is one coach who knows that.