Battle Royal Among Journeymen on the OL

[PlayAction]

The Skins hopes next season hinge upon improved Offensive performance (I think we've been saying that for the last 5+ years!). The OL is key. I thought it would be interesting to discuss the changes and prospects for the OL. Shanahan has said he wants competition at every position and he's brought in a slew of journeymen prospects to compete on the OL. While there are a lot of possibilities there are only a few open spots on the 53 man roster. I'm going to assume that Shanahan, as an offensive minded coach, is going to want to take a full 25 spots on the roster for the offense. The breakdown might be: 3 QB; 3 TE; 1 FB; 3 RB; 6 WR; and 9 OL. If the Skins keep 9 OLmen then you need 5 players that are starting quality + 4 backups that can fill in or are being groomed as eventual starter replacements. Skins need to have backups available to fill any position on the line: LT, G, C and RT. Therefore, a player that isn't a starter has a better chance of making the 53 man roster if he can play more than one position. The starter doesn't really need to be able to play more than one position (it's nice but it's preferable that he's not moved around if another player gets hurt).

I think there are four players that are "locks" to make the roster:

Trent Williams (#4 pick isn't going to get cut for any reason and he's penciled in as LT - - worst case he plays RT).

Derrick Dockery (plays only LG but is decent starter quality guard).

Casey Rabach C - somewhat a surprise but coaches seem to think that he can flourish in the ZBS - just signed a new contract - veteran presence on the line.

Artis Hicks - 31 year old veteran who can play almost any position on the line. At a minimum, he makes the roster as the backup that the team can depend upon. He hopes to win the job as starting RT.

Newly Drafted Players:

Skins drafted 2 OL in the later rounds presumably because they saw that the players had potential in their scheme. If the guys don't wash out in training camp then the key decision is whether the Skins want to risk putting them on the practice squad (where another team could potentially sign them). If the two players have true potential then the Skins might have to keep them on the 53 man roster:

Eric Cook C/G - since he may be able to play two positions he does offer the flexibility needed for a backup position.

Selvish Capers OT - potentially could play both LT and RT but we'll see based upon training camp. Skins are light at the number of players competing at Tackle so that favors Capers.

If the Skins take my four locks + the two draftees then that leaves only 3 spots left for the following journeymen players. It's going to be a battle.

Kory Lichtensteiger C/G - originally drafted by Shanny. 25 years old. Better suited towards Guard but could fill in at Center. Athletic and according to his profile was good at traps and pulls. Fits well in ZBS.

Mike Williams - G - coaches are in agreement that Williams cannot play tackle so he has to make it at Guard. They like his potential but acknowlege that he's raw at the position. At 31 though do the Skins have time for him to develop the necessary skills at Guard? I think Williams needs to win the RG starter position because he doesn't have the flexibility to play multiple positions as a backup.

Chad Rinehart - G - Chad is a holdover from the old administration and no longer gets any benefit from his 3rd round draft position. He played tackle in college so its possible that he might convince the coaches that he could fill in at RT if necessary. His draft profile suggests that he might not be a good fit for the ZBS. Time for Rinehart to step it up or he'll be out.

If the above 3 make the team then the remaining players on the current roster would have to be cut:

Will Montgomery C/G - offers flexibility but he needs to beat Chad and Kory for a spot. Skins may prefer to have a backup that can play the tackle position.

Stephon Heyer T - may be a case of the old administration trying to push a backup at best into the starting position. He did fairly well in pass protection but run blocking suffered. Shanny likes the run game so I predict that Heyer gets cut.

Clint Oldenberg T - journeyman tackle brought in to compete. Could be camp fodder but don't know enough about him yet.

William Robinson T - journeyman tackle brought in to compete. Could be camp fodder but don't know enough about him yet.

If the Skins take the players that I've listed then they would have the following coverage at each position:

T - Trent Williams, Artis Hicks, Selvish Capers, Chad Rinehart (but how many can play LT?)

G - Derrick Dockery, Mike Williams, Kory Lichtensteiger, Chad Rinehart, and Eric Cook.

C - Casey Rabach, Kory Lichtensteiger, and Eric Cook.

As I look over the list I think the Skins are fine at Center and Guard but OT may be still an issue. How many of the Tackles could be counted on to play LT (even as a backup)? If all except Trent Williams are at best RT then Skins might need to go out and find a better Tackle at the cost of Capers or Rinehart (most likely Rinehart given the other players on the roster at Guard positions).

What do you guys think? Do the Skins take the risk of putting their low round draft picks on the practice squad or do they dump holdovers from the old administration since they have nothing invested in them?

[GenMgr]

K-Shan said during the pre-draft mini-camp that he likes most of the interior lineman so I believe they are working at creating a good mix of young and old.

[seantaylor=god]

Nice post.

I think Heyer makes the team as a back up LT/RT. I think Rinehart/M. Williams gets cut. Since neither can play T its all up to who is a better guard in the ZBS. While Rinehart came in as a RT/G, in limited work he's looked abysmal at T and realistically can only be expected to be a guard (like Mike W.)

[santana_4_prez]

One thing I'm confident in, is this coaching staff will pick the right lineup. I got faith! Can't wait to see how it onfolds!

[TK]

They'll gang up & toss BMW over the top rope first. Undertaker will hit 'Old School' & then choke slam Heyer over the top rope. Triple H hits a Petigre on Sheamus as Bastista clotheslines Hicks over the top rope. In a show of strenght, Dockery bench presses the worlds strongest man Mark Henry out & over the top rope. Unregistered Royal Rumble entries Chris Samuels & Brian Orakpo hit the ring & help rookie Trent Williams clear the ring & raise his hands as the winner of the Rumble. Williams looks up & points at the WrestleMania sign hanging in the arena. Grabs the mic & proclaims I'm going to the Super Bowl!

[SnyderMustGo]

G - Derrick Dockery, Mike Williams, Kory Lichtensteiger, Chad Rinehart, and Eric Cook.

C - Casey Rabach, Kory Lichtensteiger, and Eric Cook.

As I look over the list I think the Skins are fine at Center and Guard

How are we fine at G and C?

I mean, it is true we apparently have people with a pulse who can fill a roster spot. But such an assessment does not involve any qualitative judgment.

Of all the people at G and C we have, we only have 1 decent player: Dockery. Rabach is old and has been deteriorating over the last couple of seasons, and now he's learning a new system and getting older. Williams is not a guard and has been a disappointment for his first 7 years in this league; why on earth would we rely on him to change that trend at a new position? Reinhart has been a bust. Kory L. has not done much in his career, and he makes an ok backup. But I don't know about him starting. I have no idea what Eric Cook brings.

I don't see how you think we are "fine" at G and C.

[GoodOnPaper]

They'll gang up & toss BMW over the top rope first. Undertaker will hit 'Old School' & then choke slam Heyer over the top rope. Triple H hits a Petigre on Sheamus as Bastista clotheslines Hicks over the top rope. In a show of strenght, Dockery bench presses the worlds strongest man Mark Henry out & over the top rope. Unregistered Royal Rumble entries Chris Samuels & Brian Orakpo hit the ring & help rookie Trent Williams clear the ring & raise his hands as the winner of the Rumble. Williams looks up & points at the WrestleMania sign hanging in the arena. Grabs the mic & proclaims I'm going to the Super Bowl!

Doesn't that result in disqualification?

Whatever happened to gamesmanship and standards :|

[Dark Acre]

What about special teams? It's not like there aren't any big uglies there. Couldn't an OL guy take a roster spot on ST as sort of an in-house taxi squad? ST can't all come from D.

[Dark Acre]

Actually, looking at the names you posted, our OL sucks. Rabach can play C, though he's getting old and undersized these days, Dockery can play but is not ZBS guy, and everyone else is either a rookie or just plain sucks. Wow. Ugh. Can any of the DTs play OL?

[HRNY4ZRNY]

I think Heyor will make the team.

If we dont go out and get someone like Adams than Heyor will start on the right side.

Should look like this.

Williams/ Dockery/ Rabach/ Hicks/Heyor

Heyor is given a a chance until he proves he cannot handle it. Than you will change it to this.

Williams/ Dockery/ Rabach/ M. Williams/ Hicks

[TheLongshot]

How are we fine at G and C?

I mean, it is true we apparently have people with a pulse who can fill a roster spot. But such an assessment does not involve any qualitative judgment.

Of all the people at G and C we have, we only have 1 decent player: Dockery. Rabach is old and has been deteriorating over the last couple of seasons, and now he's learning a new system and getting older. Williams is not a guard and has been a disappointment for his first 7 years in this league; why on earth would we rely on him to change that trend at a new position? Reinhart has been a bust. Kory L. has been decent in his career, and he makes an ok backup. But I don't know about him starting. I have no idea what Eric Cook brings.

I don't see how you think we are "fine" at G and C.

Actually, both Rinehart and BMW did well in the guard spot when they played. The problem there last year was that they couldn't settle in and make the position theirs. BMW now gets a full offseason to adjust to the new position and will push Rinehart for the position.

I think we are "fine" at Center, mainly from the fact that Rabach is the established starter, and despite what fan perception of him is, coaching staffs seem to love him, including the current one. We also have a veteran backup in Montgomery and a few young guys (E. Williams, Lichtensteiger, Cook) who can play center, so we have our developmental options right now.

[ACW]

They'll gang up & toss BMW over the top rope first. Undertaker will hit 'Old School' & then choke slam Heyer over the top rope. Triple H hits a Petigre on Sheamus as Bastista clotheslines Hicks over the top rope. In a show of strenght, Dockery bench presses the worlds strongest man Mark Henry out & over the top rope. Unregistered Royal Rumble entries Chris Samuels & Brian Orakpo hit the ring & help rookie Trent Williams clear the ring & raise his hands as the winner of the Rumble. Williams looks up & points at the WrestleMania sign hanging in the arena. Grabs the mic & proclaims I'm going to the Super Bowl!

:ols: I was thinking Royal Rumble too.

[SnyderMustGo]

Well, I guess I evaluate the O-line differently.

I don't think merely assume having 300 lb bodies with a pulse = having a solid O-line. This may sound radical, but I actually factor into my analysis whether those bodies actually have skill and are quality players. I could care less if we have names to fill up roster requirements. I actually want people who can play well.

And again, we only have 1 starting quality offensive lineman and that is Dockery. We could probably squeeze one more year out of Rabach, but given the last few years, that sounds like a dangerous plan.

And relying on Mike Williams? That is just ignorant. The guy has been a complete disaster for his first 7 years, and he is all of the sudden going to get it at a new position? That is stupid. It's about as dumb as when we went to the 2008 season with the idea that Bugel was going to turn Todd Wade into a starting guard--and idea which predictably failed miserably.

We can't go into the season on the hope that Mike Williams goes against his 7 year history of failure to become a good o-lineman.

We need to be proactively bringing in every interior O-lineman with starting experience we can get.

[SnyderMustGo]

both Rinehart and BMW did well in the guard spot when they played.

Define "well."

Do you mean, like they didn't just fall flat on their butts and start sucking their thumbs?

Your definition of "well" is silly. Neither one of those guys played at an acceptable level for a team that intends to contend.

[CaptChaos86]

I actually could see the o-line being a strength this year. If we can keep a steady healthy group of guys on the field and with the scheme and coaching i think we will see a big difference in o-line play.

[warriorz]

They'll gang up & toss BMW over the top rope first. Undertaker will hit 'Old School' & then choke slam Heyer over the top rope. Triple H hits a Petigre on Sheamus as Bastista clotheslines Hicks over the top rope. In a show of strenght, Dockery bench presses the worlds strongest man Mark Henry out & over the top rope. Unregistered Royal Rumble entries Chris Samuels & Brian Orakpo hit the ring & help rookie Trent Williams clear the ring & raise his hands as the winner of the Rumble. Williams looks up & points at the WrestleMania sign hanging in the arena. Grabs the mic & proclaims I'm going to the Super Bowl!

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Oh how I miss the old wrestling days...

On topic, I'm am very happy to see the competition on the o line

[StepyagameuP]

They'll gang up & toss BMW over the top rope first. Undertaker will hit 'Old School' & then choke slam Heyer over the top rope. Triple H hits a Petigre on Sheamus as Bastista clotheslines Hicks over the top rope. In a show of strenght, Dockery bench presses the worlds strongest man Mark Henry out & over the top rope. Unregistered Royal Rumble entries Chris Samuels & Brian Orakpo hit the ring & help rookie Trent Williams clear the ring & raise his hands as the winner of the Rumble. Williams looks up & points at the WrestleMania sign hanging in the arena. Grabs the mic & proclaims I'm going to the Super Bowl!

And just as Trent Williams proclaims the visit to the Super Bowl he gets two chairs in the back from Chris Samuels and Brian Orakpo. You then hear the "NWO" entrance music and see the Hulkster make yet another appearance with Razor Ramon and Big Daddy Diesel! Orakpo and Smauels throw up the NWO and then begin spray painting Williams' chest with the NWO logo. 2 months later Williams joins NWO during Summer Slam as he cheap shotted Casey Rabach and made him lose his intercontinental championship belt to London Fletcher!

[PlayAction]

I think Heyor will make the team.

If we dont go out and get someone like Adams than Heyor will start on the right side.

Should look like this.

illiams/ Dockery/ Rabach/ Hicks/Heyor

Heyor is given a a chance until he proves he cannot handle it. Than you will change it to this.

Williams/ Dockery/ Rabach/ M. Williams/ Hicks

Flozell Adams will be 35 years old for the next season. I assume he can transition to RT but obviously he would be a stop gap solution. Is he athletic enough to play in Shanny's ZBS or did Dallas use him as the big fatty for power blocking? He's a big guy at 338 lbs.

You are right that Heyer will be given a chance to compete and it's possible that he's better in the ZBS than he was under Buges. But, he was so bad in the running game I'm not expecting much. I think Heyer's ability to win a spot on the roster will depend upon how he matches up against Selvish Capers OT. If the Skins think they can safely stash Capers on the practice squad it certainly improves the odds for Heyer or the other journeyman tackles currently on the roster.

Selvish Capers Info:

Per FantasyPlayers.com "Unfortunately for Capers, he has not proven to be a consistent pass blocker. There is no doubt he has quick feet and a surprising amount of athleticism for a player his size, but offensive tackles have to block. A zone blocking scheme will cover up some of his short comings, but he is probably a couple years away from seriously contributing to an NFL team. However, he does have a high ceiling and somebody should be willing to take a chance on him around the fourth round."

Per CBSSports

Pass blocking: Prototypical height and athletic build for a left tackle. Smooth kick slide, quick set and good lateral movement. Keeps his feet moving and hands active. Will punch and extend his arms to keep rushers at a distance. Gets low to cut in a hurry. Fair anchor, but he must improve his knee bend -- ends playing with good leverage can push him back by getting under his pads. Has lapses in his movement in his kick slide, possibly due to forgetting the snap count.

Run blocking: Despite his background as a tight end, he likes to be physical as a run blocker. Uses a strong initial punch, and will continue pounding his man to sustain the block. Strong enough to push ends around the pocket on draws or quarterback runs. Needs to bend his knees and explode from his stance to block down on the edge. Doesn't drive block -- or even line up in three-point stance -- often in WVU's spread offense.

Pulling/trapping: Not asked to pull or trap for the Mountaineers, but could get the shot if moved inside at the next level. Has the footwork to get around the guard and center, easily getting out in front of off-tackle screens. Does struggle to get low when adjusting to players inside, meaning he would mostly get in the way of -- not blow up -- defenders in the hole.

Initial Quickness: Usually quick coming off the ball, whether in his kick slide in pass protection or trying to reach the end or linebacker on run plays. Can knock defenders back with his punch in pass protection, but also loses his balance lunging to land that punch. Will be late off the snap on occasion, apparently losing the count.

Downfield: Very smooth runner in space, easily reaching the second level. Can be slow to adjust to oncoming linebackers but uses his very long arms to push them off course. Plays too tall at times, losing the leverage battle or allowing linebackers to get under his shoulder to make a play. Inconsistent sustaining blocks; can do it when he remembers to move his feet after latching on. Inconsistent hitting the inside target.

Intangibles: Took over as the leader of the offensive line as a senior, though he is not a vocal player. Plays strong, and comes to the aid of teammates on the field. Did not qualify academically in his freshman year, but got on track to graduate in order to play a fourth season.

[SnyderMustGo]

I'd actually like to see what Capers has and give him the role.

It would be a great idea to be in a rebuilding phase where we could develop rookie O-linemen like Trent and Capers. Unfortunately, we are in no-mans land with a win now motivation (giving up picks for McNabb, signing the 2003 Pro Bowl roster) and its hard to invest so much in winning now and also start rookies.

We need to clean house and rebuild for real, imo.

[PlayAction]

I don't think merely assume having 300 lb bodies with a pulse = having a solid O-line. This may sound radical, but I actually factor into my analysis whether those bodies actually have skill and are quality players. I could care less if we have names to fill up roster requirements. I actually want people who can play well.

And again, we only have 1 starting quality offensive lineman and that is Dockery. We could probably squeeze one more year out of Rabach, but given the last few years, that sounds like a dangerous plan.

And relying on Mike Williams? That is just ignorant. The guy has been a complete disaster for his first 7 years, and he is all of the sudden going to get it at a new position? That is stupid. It's about as dumb as when we went to the 2008 season with the idea that Bugel was going to turn Todd Wade into a starting guard--and idea which predictably failed miserably.

We can't go into the season on the hope that Mike Williams goes against his 7 year history of failure to become a good o-lineman.

We need to be proactively bringing in every interior O-lineman with starting experience we can get.

It definitely would be foolish to rely upon Mike Williams as becoming the starting RG. As I said he's 31 and just learning the RG position. Given his athletic ability he might be able to win the spot. If not, then there are other guys that can compete. At a minimum the Skins have Artis Hicks (assuming someone else fills the RT spot). While Lichtensteiger hasn't shown yet that he's a high quality G, the player skills for ZBS are different than in other schemes. Kory is ideally suited to the ZBS and may show that he can become the starter. At least the Skins are finally paying attention to the OL instead of leaving it entirely to chance.

[PlayAction]

I left off one more journeyman - - Edwin Williams © Skins signed last year as an undrafted free agent out of Maryland.

[TheLongshot]

Define "well."

Do you mean, like they didn't just fall flat on their butts and start sucking their thumbs?

Your definition of "well" is silly. Neither one of those guys played at an acceptable level for a team that intends to contend.

"Well", IMO, means they did well enough to earn the right to compete for the job this season. Rinehart actually was very good in the run game and was starting to come on in the passing game before he got hurt. BMW did better at RG than he did at RT last year, and with a full offseason to focus on his technique rather than losing weight, he should be better this season.

The problem with rating these guys in the overall line is that the line was in constant flux last year. You aren't going to get good line play if you keep changing who is playing from week to week.

[SKOALSKIN]

I think Cook gets stashed on the practice squad. It sounds like he's too raw to make a roster. I think that Rinehart will be cut. I can see Heyer making the squad and will fighting it out with williams for that last guard/c spot

[lou4gehrig]

Capers and Cook are both practice squad guys. They have no chance of making the team. I wouldn't consider them "locks" because we've drafted them. Guys in the 6th and 7th round get cut all the time without ever playing for the team.

[wildbill1952]

Excellent post and analysis. Some disagreement, put that's why we post.

I've been pushing for OL for the past 4 years. One of the real drawbacks of the Vinny/Snyder era was that they never had young OL in waiting. Although they talked about finding those gems for the OL in the later round, they never semed to either have or commit the picks to bring them in.

This year is different. Not only did the Skins rightly choose a top-caliber OT as their first pick, but they also got some guys that have potential. The biggest name among them, Selvish Capers, was long thougt to be a third round pick. Of all OT's on 106 college teams, Scouts Inc rated him as the 9th best OT. To draft him in the 7th round is a coup. This is the only one of our draft class I would keep off the practice squad, all other things being equal. He will be stolen if placed there.

Trent Williams is the starter at left tackle. He is an immediate upgrade day 1 over anyone we currently have on the OL. The real question is "Who take his place if he's hurt?" That may have more to do with the final OL roster than any other decision.

It seems we are set at center wth Rabach's new contract and L-tieger and Cook. Cook may be a candidate for the practice squad, with the thought to bring him on after a year to replace Rabach. He was the best center in a very weak conference on a very weak team. But Shanny and Allen saw somethng. Hopefully it pans out.

Big Mike Williams lost a lot of weight (obviously) last year and that is not all positive for a football player in that it also reduces your strength. It may be, as some suspect, that this will just be another year of failure. But he will be better than last year. And he is one of the few that can play both guard and tackle. Pre-seaon either puts him on the first string or out of football.

Rinehart remains a mystery. He finally broke into the starting group and then got injured. It's hard to say what he'll do. Build on his pre-injury perfromance or regress. Have to wait-and-see on him.

Heyer has stunk up the joint big time and his future depends on what Hicks does. If Hicks turns out to be a dependable presence on the OLine, Heyer will be a backup this year and history next year as another OT is drafted. If Heyer beats out Hicks for the starting job, it would be a weighted decision giving Heyer extra points for youth. But Heyer has showed us for three years what he is incapable of. New coaches and a new blocking scheme are not going to add to his talent level.

Your assessment of the starters is probably spot on. But I think the aging veterans brought in fror depth, other than Hicks, are not going to be here after camp.