Times Online (London): George W. Bush 'knew Guantánamo prisoners were innocent'

[jpyaks3]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7092435.ece

George W. Bush 'knew Guantánamo prisoners were innocent'

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq and the broader War on Terror, according to a new document obtained by The Times.

The accusations were made by Lawrence Wilkerson, a top aide to Colin Powell, the former Republican Secretary of State, in a signed declaration to support a lawsuit filed by a Guantánamo detainee. It is the first time that such allegations have been made by a senior member of the Bush Administration.

Colonel Wilkerson, who was General Powell’s chief of staff when he ran the State Department, was most critical of Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld. He claimed that the former Vice-President and Defence Secretary knew that the majority of the initial 742 detainees sent to Guantánamo in 2002 were innocent but believed that it was “politically impossible to release them”.

General Powell, who left the Bush Administration in 2005, angry about the misinformation that he unwittingly gave the world when he made the case for the invasion of Iraq at the UN, is understood to have backed Colonel Wilkerson’s declaration.

Colonel Wilkerson, a long-time critic of the Bush Administration’s approach to counter-terrorism and the war in Iraq, claimed that the majority of detainees — children as young as 12 and men as old as 93, he said — never saw a US soldier when they were captured. He said that many were turned over by Afghans and Pakistanis for up to $5,000. Little or no evidence was produced as to why they had been taken.

He also claimed that one reason Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld did not want the innocent detainees released was because “the detention efforts would be revealed as the incredibly confused operation that they were”. This was “not acceptable to the Administration and would have been severely detrimental to the leadership at DoD [Mr Rumsfeld at the Defence Department]”.

Referring to Mr Cheney, Colonel Wilkerson, who served 31 years in the US Army, asserted: “He had absolutely no concern that the vast majority of Guantánamo detainees were innocent ... If hundreds of innocent individuals had to suffer in order to detain a handful of hardcore terrorists, so be it.”

He alleged that for Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld “innocent people languishing in Guantánamo for years was justified by the broader War on Terror and the small number of terrorists who were responsible for the September 11 attacks”.

[jpyaks3]

One of many reasons why Guantanimo Bay was and continues to be a black mark on America in the world. Disgusting if true.

[ACW]

If this is true, Bush, Dick and Don oughtta be waterboarded :mad:

[jpyaks3]

If this is true, Bush, Dick and Don oughtta be waterboarded :mad:

Everybody who was paying attention knew a bunch of innocents got swept up in it thats fine mistakes happen especially with intel as long as you make an honest attempt to move them through the system as fast and accurately as you can but the fact that they held people that they knew were innocent in hopes of not ceding political points is insane. If these allegations can be proven charges should be brought up on those that orchestrated or were complicit in this.

[Jumbo]

OP...you need to get a link and format your thread correctly before you get nailed with the dreaded but common NNT stigma.

[jpyaks3]

OP...you need to get a link and format your thread correctly before you get nailed with the dreaded but common NNT stigma.

Sorry forgot the link but I edited that in what is wrong with the format of the thread?

[Jumbo]

Sorry forgot the link but I edited that in what is wrong with the format of the thread?

You just put a brief excerpt of germane points from the article in the post, not a whole bunch of the text, and generally highlight it in a "quote box" so it stands apart from whatever comments (if any) you're making about the topic in the OP.

You're good enough now, though. :pfft:

[Perky72]

I'm starting to think the country needs a completely independent court solely concerned with investigating members of the government. Congress is not enough, when even the mention of an investigation carries tremendous political backlash, combined with most members valuing reelection over principle or the Constitution.

It's not just Bush's fault, it's the fault of all those in power who could've a) demanded sufficient legal rights for detainees (or whatever the issue of abuse is), and called for investigation of impropriety. Not to mention write laws demanding these things themselves, or not back away from opposing laws allowing it due to political concerns. Not just a Bush thing either, Obama has done many of the same things, with no checks, and even expanded some. Executive power is getting out of control.

[Burgold]

Absolutely shameful if true. If true they should all be prosecuted.

[Larry]

Recall reading, when that prison was first started, the Pentagon had already begun "classification hearings". (A procedure required under Geneva, in which something like a court determins which set of rules apply to a prisoner, and which the US has soldiers trained and ready to perform, because it's one of the things which we know we're going to need when we fight a war.)

(These classification proceedings were canceled when Bush issued orders announcing that every person sent to GTMO, and any person who was sent there in the future, were declared to be unauthorized combatants without any classification hearing at all.)

The article claimed that the Pentagon had already begun the process of "reviewing the cases", in preperation for these hearings. And the people who's job was to review the evidence against these detainees claimed that, at the time, something like 9% of the people in GTMO had been captured while in combat with US forces, and 11% were suspected of being in al Qaeda. (The article did not mention how much overlap there was between the groups, so all I can conclude was that the people who fit into the category of "neither" was somewhere between 80-89%)

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That said, though, I'm with the folks who would like to see some more facts, first.

[Mickalino]

................

[Jrew1223]

Nothing about this story surprises me at all...

[Capt Rich Fla]

If Gitmo is so wrong, why is it still there? (where is your GOD now?)

[Thiebear]

As of 16 February 2006 there were about 490 detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Since its inception in January 2002, some 267 people have been transferred or released from the camp, the Pentagon says.

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq and the broader War on Terror, according to a new document obtained by The Times.

SO heres an article in 2009:

Mr. Holder, in a briefing with reporters, said administration officials are still reviewing individual cases of the approximately 250 detainees to determine which will be put on trial and which may be released to comply with plans to close the detention facility by next year...

(THIS is the Mr. Holder that has represented 17??? of the detainees before being given his position)?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123741378746277081.html

Seems to me you would have to say President Obama and Eric Holder covered up that the exact same hundreds of innocent men are still in Gitmo?

There was also a BBC? reporter that sat in on quite a few of the briefings... think he said without going to look it up he said all but 68 had journalists?

[Burgold]

I'm sorry, but the attempts to make this equal are pathetic. It simply isn't. It's just one more mess left for Obama that he has to clean up and find a way to rectify.

I will agree that it is certainly a stain and a black eye on the United States if true.

[Thiebear]

So Burgold, normally the destroyer of wrong information.

Why are you just continuing to go with "IF TRUE" several times here?

Seems rather easy to prove the Gitmo portions incorrect even with the most cursory look?

[Burgold]

It feels true, tb and jibes with a lot of things that we've heard over the years, but one guy's testamony may or may not indicate a full truth. I think something like this deserves the benefit of innocent until proven guilty.

[DeanCollins]

Theibear, still holding the candle for Dubya, amazing. Just how long is a loyal voter expected to be an apologist for his candidate?

This doesn't surprise, it's been known that many detainees were innocent. Probably was another of the strong reasons why Powell (and many others) resigned.

[The 12th Commandment]

If I crapped in your basement while I was building your house and you didn't see it till you moved in I imagine you'd be pretty careful not to get crap on your hands while you're cleaning it up.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Probably the most amoral, destructive administration in the history of the Union. It measures the considerable strength of the American spirit that we were able to withstand it.

We did withstand it right?

[Burgold]

Probably the most amoral, destructive administration in the history of the Union. It measures the considerable strength of the American spirit that we were able to withstand it.

We did withstand it right?

To be seen. We've taken some phenomal blows to both our liberty and our economy. We'll come back, but we will be changed as we were changed after Watergate and Monicagate too. The effort of our government to make its people more cynical and more distrustful is impressive.

Now, it makes sense that a Conservative Administration like Nixon and Bush would be fundamentally corrupt. Afterall, an underpinning of Conservative logic is the belief that the Federal government is bad. Therefore, doing everything in their power to undermine it via bad governance furthers their agenda... why Liberal Administrations also work so hard to make us hate and distrust a Federal government is perplexing.

(I dislike being tongue in cheek admist such a serious topic, but what can you do.)

[Burgold]

Probably the most amoral, destructive administration in the history of the Union. It measures the considerable strength of the American spirit that we were able to withstand it.

We did withstand it right?

A more serious answer is that "yes" we did survive it, but there are still open wounds and tremendous anger due to it. It's interesting how much of that anger manifests on the Right and how little they aim their flashlight at their own actions or acknowledge their own part in the series of economic, political, and moral errors of the recent past.

[Larry]

It feels true, tb and jibes with a lot of things that we've heard over the years, but one guy's testamony may or may not indicate a full truth. I think something like this deserves the benefit of innocent until proven guilty.

Agreed.

My gut says it's true.

Well, to be more accurate, I'd say that my gut believes "Bush

should have known

that many in GTMO were innocent, but it's possible that he deliberately chose not to look."

I would have no trouble at all believing that Bush chose to use a big net, knowing that doing so would catch lots of innocents, but that he felt it was necessary. That he didn't like it, but felt that he had to.

But I'm not willing to convict based on my gut. I think some facts are in order. A lot of them.

[Ax]

Ah yes. The fall election push kicks it up a notch with some raw meat for the "Run Against Bush" zombies.

As Thiebear seems to be implying, with this current group blaming everything under the sun on the Evil Bush Monster, does anyone with a partially working brain really believe they'd ignore this little gem? If it's as obvious as the inventor seems to say it is, wouldn't the brilliant team of Obama/Clinton/Holder already have discovered the truth, and released it?

Anybody? Maybe the plan is to slowly release information leading up to the elections. But then, what would that make them, honest injuns?

So, it either didn't happen as stated, or Bush is smarter than Brainiac by virtue of being able to cover it up this long from his new home in Texas.

Common sense. The most valuable thing money can't buy.

[The 12th Commandment]

Ah yes. The fall election push kicks it up a notch with some raw meat for the "Run Against Bush" zombies.

As Thiebear seems to be implying, with this current group blaming everything under the sun on the Evil Bush Monster, does anyone with a partially working brain really believe they'd ignore this little gem? If it's as obvious as the inventor seems to say it is, wouldn't the brilliant team of Obama/Clinton/Holder already have discovered the truth, and released it?

Anybody? Maybe the plan is to slowly release information leading up to the elections. But then, what would that make them, honest injuns?

So, it either didn't happen as stated, or Bush is smarter than Brainiac by virtue of being able to cover it up this long from his new home in Texas.

Common sense. The most valuable thing money can't buy.

A. It was a story in a foreign paper

B. I have yet to see one person here accept it as fact (edit - a couple seem to want it be true a little too much for my taste. I really hope it's BS)