Peyton Manning says Jason Campbell's sounded positive - guess not - MODS LOCK THIS

[OuterBanksTarHeel]

-Both had lower comp%

-Both have lower YPA

-Both had stability in play calling and coaching

-Both had much better RBs/running games

-Both had better pass protection

-Both had less injuries on the offensive side of the ball

*Ryan only played 14 games.

*Palmer thew one freaking pass in his last game.

*Of course they had lower YPA's--they faced more manageable 3rd downs.

*As for the rest of this nonsense, who cares? Anyone who actually watches the games can see with his own eyes that Campbell isn't in either player's league. I don't give a flip about arbitrary stats, just like I didn't care when Mark Boonell set an NFL record for 23 pass completions in a row against the Texans. He still sucked.

Stop hiding behind stats and tell us what makes Campbell a good prospect.

[darrelgreenie]

Again, WHERE IN PEYTON'S STATEMENT, DID PEYTON ACTUALLY SAY THAT CANDLE IS ANY GOOD?

Spin, spin,spin, seems to be all one side of this debate does, these days.

How about you debate the topic, instead of trying to dodge it playing lil' miss manners. Very bad form on your part.

Bad form is when you use a strawman.

As in asking me in caps to answer something that i'm not saying or even implying.

How about you show me where i said that then i'll answer your question okay lil boy?

We have this thing called the quote feature.

Use it, or stop putting words in people's mouth here is what I said:

Since you are unable or unwilling to quote what i actually wrote i'll do it for you:

Although Peyton isn't directly 'giving props' to Campbell he does admit that he thinks it would be hard to have success in Campbell's situation and that he doesn't think he would do well in the same situation.

Pay attention to the part in red its something that you and many of your cohorts are guilty of:

It's been a tremendous help to me, just the consistency, the same offense, the same verbiage, the same guy calling the plays in my ears for 12 years. I don't take that for granted in the least bit and so I see these Qbs... Jason Campbell for the Washington Redskins... I think he's had 6 OCs in 6 years. That would be extremely tough. I think people forget about that when they're analyzing his play, you know, it's not fair as a QB to have that many coordinators and coaches. It's too hard, I would not do well in that type of environment, so I've been thankful everyday to have Tom Moore as my coordinator for my entire 12 years and I understand this may be his last year, so I appreciate what he's done for my career and I will never take for granted the consistency.

You know what?

I don't see where i said that 'PEYTON ACTUALLY SAY THAT CANDLE IS ANY GOOD'

See that is what is called a strawman arguement.

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Most reasonable people understanding when someone says that i wouldn't do well in a situation that another person is in you are in fact giving that person credit for being able to handle a situation where you think you wouldn't do well.

But only in your world would that somehow be a negative.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

all of this is interesting, cuz its a little different from what you said in 05. your words are in red....

Ramsey is not the problem Gibbs offense was, to many players who have big time play making ability just floundered in that offense last season, Gibbs has to prove he still has an inovative mind when it comes to offense, not that predictable, bland, vanilla, nonesense we saw last year.

you blame our HOF coach, and dont blame ramsey, the career backup, for our offenses problems.

Then let's try throwing the ball downfield, or how bout this anything other than a WR screen!

you didnt like gibbs playcalling. i didnt like zorns too much last year either.

Gibbs said he has to prove himself all over again, well I am taking him up on that, after what I saw last year on offense he has a lot to prove, we all love the guy for what he has done but the past is just that the past, he has to prove that after 12 years off the job he still has it, IMO Ramsey is the good's,

gibbs is the problem. but ramsey is a good QB, and you dont fault him.

I am not a big fan of Brunell nor was I before we traded for him, but not even he is as bad as what we saw last season, a lot of our QB's failures lie with Gibbs

alot of our QB's failures lie with our HOF coach.

but when anyone else points out reasons for our QB's failures, its excuses. you indict gibbs, and excuse zorn.

got it.

Really? What does this have to do with Campbell? Nothing! We all know at that time Gibbs had a hard on to get Brunell in the game, and it was Gibbs first year back you have to allow for the guy to get re-acclimated to the NFL, what you failed to realize in your post was the abundant amount of play makers, which have been there all along for JC. Ramsey? When did he even have a real opportunity under Gibbs? We saw Brunell play almost as bad as JC, we also saw Ramsey move the ball against what turned out to be the best defense in the league, the Bears, for more yds in a quarter than Brunell did the entire game when he replaced him, Does anyone think Ramsey would have been worse off than Brunell? Brunell was horrid as a QB. I had a huge problem with Gibbs, but by the time Campbell made the lineup we had no idea where Gibbs was as a coach because he had been running his offense without a QB, which continued with Campbell until Collins stepped in showed what the offense was capable of doing. Further more Saunders was play calling by the time JC saw the field, which was the primary concern with Gibbs 2, and his play calling was good enough for a journeyman backup who hadn't played in how many years?

So you can try and blame everyone on the planet all you want to excuse Campbell but in the end it wont fly, because the JC excuse machine will be very quite once he's replaced never to be heard from again, and it's going to happen very quickly it's just a matter of time, don't be fooled by political correctness of their statements for the public, they are in full force figuring out how to move JC out of the big picture, they just want to make sure they can put something under center that resembles a real QB, which in our case we have so many uncertainties between a 40 yr old journeyman backup, and an unproven player who can't seem to stay healthy up until this point in his career in colt. Once there is a decision JC is either gone, or the resident meat bag for the first alf of the season until either Bradford, or Claussen are up to speed with the playbook, something that won't take either one 3 years to possibly comprehend.

Bottom line here is you want to equate Brunell, and Ramsey's situation to Campbells and it ain't flying, in case you are not aware of this, a QB can be held back by coaching, and a coach can be held back by his QB, but because one situation may apply to different players you would like to jump on board and use it for JC, but there is a difference, all you have to do is actually watch how they played to gauge where the problem is, it's called talent evaluation. Bottom line Campbell is as brutal as a QB as there is, lets wait and see who was right, and who was wrong on this one, shall we!

[HailGreen28]

Bad form is when you use a strawman.

As in asking me in caps to answer something that i'm not saying or even implying.

How about you show me where i said that then i'll answer your question okay lil boy?

We have this thing called the quote feature.

Use it, or stop putting words in people's mouth here is what I said:

Since you are unable or unwilling to quote what i actually wrote i'll do it for you:

You know what?

I don't see where i said that 'PEYTON ACTUALLY SAY THAT CANDLE IS ANY GOOD'

See that is what is called a strawman arguement.

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Most reasonable people understanding when someone says that i wouldn't do well in a situation that another person is in you are in fact giving that person credit for being able to handle a situation where you think you wouldn't do well.

But only in your world would that somehow be a negative.

So despite your kicking and screaming "STRAWMAN!!!!!!", you admit that Peyton never said Candle was good. Congratulations.

Now, let's really blow your mind: How can anybody call Peyton's statement "HUGE PROPS", when Peyton never said that Candle was any good?

Personally, I'd say it's somewhere between "poor guy", and "one reason he sucks".

But calling Peyton's statement "huge props" is the real strawman.

Whether you and others admit it or not.

How about you show me where i said that then i'll answer your question okay lil boy?

How about you actually read posts before you argue against them, and stay on topic. Or are you too ignorant with your kneejerk cliches like "strawman" and blind Candle-worship? Okay, little boy?

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Again, WHERE IN PEYTON'S STATEMENT, DID PEYTON ACTUALLY SAY THAT CANDLE IS ANY GOOD?

Spin, spin,spin, seems to be all one side of this debate does, these days.

How about you debate the topic, instead of trying to dodge it playing lil' miss manners. Very bad form on your part.

The only reason Manning used JC as an example is because he knows how bad the guy has played, he didn't say he couldn't over come JC's circumstances, but kind of looked for a way to deflect credit away from himself as he has alway's done and give his coaches and organization some up's, PM understands humility is a huge part of one's success.

[wvtbred]

Can you read the actual quote Peyton made, instead of a Candle lover's spin on it.

FROM PEYTON'S ACTUAL STATEMENT, DID PEYTON SAY THAT CANDLE HAS PERFORMED WELL OR IS A GOOD QB?

YES, OR NO, GREENIE?

CAN YOU READ OR THINK AT ALL?

Not to mention Jason's name was introduced to the discussion by the reporter NOT Peyton.

Dg you and the others are looking awful blinded by something.

[jhug]

Not to mention Jason's name was introduced to the discussion by the reporter NOT Peyton.

Dg you and the others are looking awful blinded by something.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/44/live/app#pid:man515097 Here is the link at what point does the reporter bring up Campbell's name? What's the timeline. Talk about your revisionist history on the fly.

Manning was talking about the reason for his success.

Jason's name was brought up by Manning not a reporter and in essence he was neither complimenting nor degrading Campbell he was merely attributing his success to a stable environment vs someone not in a stable environment (Campbell) and even acknowledged that he himself did not believe he could have success in the same situation.

Now let me hear how you will spin this.:pfft:

[kiingspadee]

I am going to ask the mods to lock this or something I made a mistake and this thread is just turning bad

[jhug]

I am going to ask the mods to lock this or something I made a mistake and this thread is just turning bad

You did nothing wrong my friend. The thread sheds some light into some memebers' agendas. I actually enjoyed hearing from an expert (Manning)

on the subject of stability and how much it played into his success. But there are others who would like it locked. So that only their views will be read over and over.

[darrelgreenie]

So despite your kicking and screaming "STRAWMAN!!!!!!", you admit that Peyton never said Candle was good. Congratulations.

LoL, that's the whole point.

I never said that Peyton said that Campbell was good or gave him huge props.

YOU kept saying that i said that, which is the definition of a strawman.

Now, let's really blow your mind: How can anybody call Peyton's statement "HUGE PROPS", when Peyton never said that Candle was any good?

HELLO-

There you go AGAIN!

Are you that much of an idiot that you're going to try the same tactic again?

Use the quote feature and show where i've said these things or stop freaking posting what amounts to a lie.

Dude, argument style is a joke.

How about you actually read posts before you argue against them, and stay on topic. Or are you too ignorant with your kneejerk cliches like "strawman" and blind Candle-worship? Okay, little boy?

Are you that much of a fool that you think people can't or don't see through your tactics.

Did you once use the quote feature in our entire back and forth to show where i said any of things you claimed?

NO

You know why? Because I didn't say those things and you know it.

Why even bother responding to my posts when clearly you aren't reading them and you don't care what i'm saying in the post?

[darrelgreenie]

*Ryan only played 14 games.

*Palmer thew one freaking pass in his last game.

*Of course they had lower YPA's--they faced more manageable 3rd downs.

*As for the rest of this nonsense, who cares? Anyone who actually watches the games can see with his own eyes that Campbell isn't in either player's league. I don't give a flip about arbitrary stats, just like I didn't care when Mark Boonell set an NFL record for 23 pass completions in a row against the Texans. He still sucked.

Stop hiding behind stats and tell us what makes Campbell a good prospect.

How is comp % or YPA effected by the factors you mentioned?

Quite right who cares about the rest of the nonsense like: pass protection? running game and healthy running backs? like consistency in playcalling? like FO stability?

Now, universally accepted and referenced stats are arbitrary when they don't support you're opinion, i get it.

Thank you for that, you've made it clear that trying to have a sensible debate with you is impossible.

Now i remember why i try to avoid these Campbell related debates.

Some members of this board don't really care to discuss football.

To really break it down and try to figure out what's going on.

Some members would rather turn a closed ear to actual discussion and avoid hearing a different viewpoint.

HTTR!

[jhug]

How is comp % or YPA effected by the factors you mentioned?

Quite right who cares about the rest of the nonsense like: pass protection? running game and healthy running backs? like consistency in playcalling? like FO stability?

Now, universally accepted and referenced stats are arbitrary when they don't support you're opinion, i get it.

Thank you for that, you've made it clear that trying to have a sensible debate with you is impossible.

Now i remember why i try to avoid these Campbell related debates.

Some members of this board don't really care to discuss football.

To really break it down and try to figure out what's going on.

Some members would rather turn a closed ear to actual discussion and avoid hearing a different viewpoint.

HTTR!

Bravo, well said:point2sky

[Jumbo]

I am so close to banning two guys with green in their screen name for about a month. I haven't decided yet.

I'm about ready (and I'm not alone) to temporarily punt a whole mess of dipsticks on both sides of the JC crapfests for continuously lowering the qualtiy of our fine establishment.

People want to continue acting like children, like calling each other "little boy", then I will happily send them to time out.

In the meantime, I'm responding to the OP's request and closing this one.