Peyton Manning says Jason Campbell's sounded positive - guess not - MODS LOCK THIS

[OuterBanksTarHeel]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

Campbell better than Carson Palmer this year.

Please tell me that you're joking.

[HailGreen28]

How you can get, 'well, here's one reason Candle sucks' from Manning's statement is funny, really...wow

Although Peyton isn't directly 'giving props' to Campbell he does admit that he thinks it would be hard to have success in Campbell's situation and that he doesn't think he would do well in the same situation.

Pay attention to the part in red its something that you and many of your cohorts are guilty of:

It's been a tremendous help to me, just the consistency, the same offense, the same verbiage, the same guy calling the plays in my ears for 12 years. I don't take that for granted in the least bit and so I see these Qbs... Jason Campbell for the Washington Redskins... I think he's had 6 OCs in 6 years. That would be extremely tough. I think people forget about that when they're analyzing his play, you know, it's not fair as a QB to have that many coordinators and coaches. It's too hard, I would not do well in that type of environment, so I've been thankful everyday to have Tom Moore as my coordinator for my entire 12 years and I understand this may be his last year, so I appreciate what he's done for my career and I will never take for granted the consistency.

Peyton as you quoted thought that Candle had been thru 6 OCs in 6 years, not only half that in 5. Nevermind.... again: WHERE IN PEYTON'S STATEMENT DOES HE GIVE PROPS TO CANDLE? WHERE DOES HE EVEN CALL CANDLE GOOD? OR SAY THAT HE'S A GOOD QB?

Again, you can take that statement from "poor guy", to "one reason he sucks".

But "props"?

Puhlease!!!

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

No, my friend that's not a fact that's your opinion which you are presenting as fact.

Now you are claiming that Campbell was familiar with the offense?

Which one? (BTW the fact that there can be more then 1 answer is part of the point Manning is making)

I meant to say that even if he did have time to get familiar with the offense, to the extent that say, McNabb is familiar with Reid's, it won't change the fact that his fundamentals suck.

In your opinion Campbell is learning very slowly, yet he off to a fast start in the 1st year of Zorn's offense before the OL fell apart.

He was on pace for 16 TDs. That is not a fast start by any means. The only impressive part of that stretch was the 0 INTs, and then, that was when he hardly ever took chances in terms of throwing the ball.

Second, his 'learning' has been made more difficult by the constant change.

2 seasons in Saunders' offense, 2 seasons in Zorns'. You seem to imply that switching offenses means that the previous development time he had in the old offense literally exists and he's back to a rookie.

If switching offenses sets you back so completely in your development, then there is a problem.

That was the main point of Manning's statement, which appears to have gone over your head.

This part is funny, explain to me how those QB were better then Campbell this year. Everyone of those QB was in a better situation then Campbell.

Vince Young came on to an 0-6 team and went 8-2. Are you kidding? Btw one of those losses was to a team that should be 18-0 right now. The other loss was to a team on a 9 game winning streak. So yeah.

Matt Ryan had no running game whatsoever. He had a solid WR, and a great TE, and zero other weapons to work with. His line regressed too. Campbell at least had Thomas, Moss and either Cooley or Davis to work with.

Jay Cutler had the same problems minus wide receivers.

Carson Palmer is arguable - his running game and wide receivers were way better but he was coming off injury as well, and his line wasn't too great either (Andre Smith was a massive bust this year).

Garrard had MJD but a mediocre pass-blocking line and absolutely nobody to throw to.

B.S. Go ahead and name them, which QBs had as much change early change in systems and OCs + near league worst OL play + near leg worst running+ injury to 4 former pro-bowl caliber players+ a playcalling/coaching circus

Irrelevant. If his situation was holding him back as much as you say, we would see it. Sure, it doesn't HELP - but being sacked a lot doesn't keep a guy from reading the defense. It doesn't make him any worse when he DOES have time. It doesn't worsen his mechanics. You ignore the fact that when it comes to the fundamentals - the parts of QB play that transcend system and situation - Jason Campbell is LACKING, and it can be assumed that he will never overcome this lack to the point where he can be a consistently winning QB.

[TheItalianStallion]

I meant to say that even if he did have time to get familiar with the offense, to the extent that say, McNabb is familiar with Reid's, it won't change the fact that his fundamentals suck.

What fundamentals of Campbell's do you think suck?

He was on pace for 16 TDs. That is not a fast start by any means. The only impressive part of that stretch was the 0 INTs, and then, that was when he hardly ever took chances in terms of throwing the ball.

So 65% comp & 7.5 ypa aren't impressive? 7.5 ypa is pretty darn good for someone who "hardly ever took chances." Btw, he did more than Portis in 5 of the 8 games in question.

Vince Young came on to an 0-6 team and went 8-2.

Are you saying that Young and his rather pedestrian #s are the reason for Johnson going from 99.3 ypg during the first 6 games to 141 ypg during the final 10? That's a serious question. I didn't watch the Titans much this past year, so I don't really know, though I'm skeptical about a new QB and his 216 total yards (rushing + passing) pg avg being enough to make that big a difference.

Matt Ryan had no running game whatsoever. He had a solid WR, and a great TE, and zero other weapons to work with. His line regressed too.

ATL was 15th in rushing yards. If Campbell's rush yards are taken out (he was 4th among QBs in rushing), we were 31st.

[Dark Acre]

IF that is what they are planning, and they get a high pick, i would kiss Bruse Allen and praise Snyder for hiring him. For once we would come out on top of a trade.

No one's going to trade more than a 6th, if that, for Campbell. Would you?

[grego]

Some of you guys need to join up and try out for MTV's America's Best Dance Crew.

You'd be sure to win.

i see what you did there.

[grego]

Vince Young came on to an 0-6 team and went 8-2. Are you kidding? Btw one of those losses was to a team that should be 18-0 right now. The other loss was to a team on a 9 game winning streak. So yeah.

young threw for more than 210 yds 3 times. and less than 135 4 times. 10 TD's, 7 INT's in 10 games.

Matt Ryan had no running game whatsoever. He had a solid WR, and a great TE, and zero other weapons to work with. His line regressed too.

no running whatsoever? turner scored 10 TD's and had a 4.9 avg. roddy white solid? he had 85 catches, 11 TD's. pro bowler. their D scored 3 times. i dont know how his line regressed when they were ranked 10 in run D and 6th in pass pro. and his TD's and INT's were barely better than campbell, even taking into account he played 14 games.

Campbell at least had Thomas, Moss and either Cooley or Davis to work with.

our big weapons are moss and thomas? come on. at least cooley and davis are indeed good.

Jay Cutler had the same problems minus wide receivers.

agreed. but his line could protect. thats the big difference.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

What fundamentals of Campbell's do you think suck?

He's not great at reading defenses, he doesn't have the ability to hit 20+ yard passes, he has no ability to feel or evade the rush, and his overall accuracy is a product of short plays designed to produce YAC (because that's what he's decent at), combined with the fact that our targets were/are actually GOOD.

So 65% comp & 7.5 ypa aren't impressive? 7.5 ypa is pretty darn good for someone who "hardly ever took chances." Btw, he did more than Portis in 5 of the 8 games in question.

...what

Portis against NO: 96 TDs, 2 TDs, 4.6 average

Against Dallas: 121 yards, 5.8 average

Against Philly: 145 years, 5.0 average, 1 TD

St. Louis: 129 yards, 6.1 average, 2 TDs

Cleveland: 175 yards, 6.5 average, 1 TD

Detroit: 126 yards, 5.3 average.

And then add the Seattle game where he had 143 on 4.9 YPC.

Some of the scores here are utterly absurd as well. Two TDs against the Browns and the Rams? 25 points against the Lions? All with a running back that was the best in football during that stretch?

The only game where Campbell overcame a poor performance by Portis was Arizona (we won in Philly with defense and luck)

This seems to show that if Portis doesn't play well, Campbell cannot win.

Are you saying that Young and his rather pedestrian #s are the reason for Johnson going from 99.3 ypg during the first 6 games to 141 ypg during the final 10? That's a serious question. I didn't watch the Titans much this past year, so I don't really know, though I'm skeptical about a new QB and his 216 total yards (rushing + passing) pg avg being enough to make that big a difference.

Johnson played better, but Vince Young won a lot of those games late; he threw 4 touchdowns at the end of the half, and was productive when his team was down or up 7 points.

And then, his stats are skewed by that atrocious game against San Diego where he had an 11.9 rating.

ATL was 15th in rushing yards. If Campbell's rush yards are taken out (he was 4th among QBs in rushing), we were 31st.

Fair enough. I thought Turner had a fairly bad season though.

Also, Cutler was sacked 35 times. The year before he was sacked 11 times (behind a line that gave up 29 sacks with Orton)

The thing is, there's a lot of things that make it impossible to support Campbell. If he were a second or even third year QB, a lot of this stuff is excusable. He's been a starter for 4 seasons. He's going into his 6th year. A guy like Vince Young is on par with Campbell going into his 5th year in the league. Matt Ryan is a second year quarterback. Cutler is going into year 5 and has shown himself to be superior to JC, and had a subpar year because the Bears are nearly as bad as the Redskins offensively.

Even if we accept the "stability" argument, we're changing offenses AGAIN. Granted, it's to a different version of the WCO, but it's still a change. So if Jason Campbell is SO dependent on stability among the coordinators that ANY change sets him back at least the equivalent of a season, then are we going to invest ANOTHER two years of development time in a 28 year old quarterback with a career record of 19-32, whose teams have played better with him on the bench?

At some point, you need to stop making excuses and make a change. You sound like Ernie Grunfeld of the Wizards, whose obsession with "continuity" has them in the absolute worst situation in professional sports.

[grego]

imperium, i think that if you take almost any QB, change systems literally every other year, then, in his 4th year starting, you give him no running game, (IMO) the worst protection in the league, a playcalling HC who was so bad at that job that the O looked like day and night when another guy did it, he is not going to excel.

i know you call these excuses, but they are all facts. our line is horrible! our HC was horrible! our game plans were horrible! none of them were just decent or bad- they all possibl the worst in the league. how do we expect a QB to flourish with that?

i dont give a rats behind who our QB is. shanny likes bradford? he looks good to me too. lets get him. but for Gods sake, fix the things on the team that need fixing, cuz its not going to work no matter who is behind center.

[kiingspadee]

Wow this thread was very interesting!

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

imperium, i think that if you take almost any QB, change systems literally every other year, then, in his 4th year starting, you give him no running game, (IMO) the worst protection in the league, a playcalling HC who was so bad at that job that the O looked like day and night when another guy did it, he is not going to excel.

i know you call these excuses, but they are all facts. our line is horrible! our HC was horrible! our game plans were horrible! none of them were just decent or bad- they all possibl the worst in the league. how do we expect a QB to flourish with that?

i dont give a rats behind who our QB is. shanny likes bradford? he looks good to me too. lets get him. but for Gods sake, fix the things on the team that need fixing, cuz its not going to work no matter who is behind center.

Here's the big question, why are we changing offenses constantly? Is this the problem for JC, or is JC the problem? He shows no real ability as a QB, I have yet to see anything out of JC that would say this kid is on his way, or the ability to fight his way out of a tough situation, the only thing that JC has going for him is that he looks like he should be a great QB, but that assessment is based on his physical appearance, the reality of JC is we might as well put a box of Wheaties with his picture on it behind center, it would be a lot cheaper and we would be guaranteed to be perennial losers same as if JC was running the offense!

[boobiemiles]

Wow this thread was very interesting!

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. It seems people passion are running high about who should be our QB. I know these comments by Peyton puts the haters on alert. I know a lot of them are trying to find the rationale behind the idea JC must go. Especially when one of his peers gives insight that has more credibility than their own. The whole NFL is waiting to see how the Skins deal with JC. It will indicate whether or not the change from Zorn to Shannahan was a positive move, or just anoth high price acquisition.

[grego]

Here's the big question' date=' why are we changing offenses constantly? Is this the problem for JC, or is JC the problem? [/quote']

gibbs brought in saunders after realizing his old style wasnt working well. gibbs resigned. zorn was hired. zorn got fired. shanny got hired.

the changes in offense have nothing to do with campbell, unless, under zorn, at least, you fault the QB as the #1 problem. but if you do, you have to overlook the line and the play calling zorn as bigger problems.

[Rocky52Mc]

It's never Campbell, it's always someone or something else. I used to think like this. And then I realized I've spent half a decade waiting for the lightbulb to come on.

Oh I'm sorry that you've given up on your team.

Was CBS nice enough to send your fan card back in the mail once the season was over? I've still been a Skins fan all this damn time. You've just made me realize why we're stuck in this discussion here.

You: Believe that this franchise is doomed.

I: Believe that this franchise WAS doomed.

[darrelgreenie]

gibbs brought in saunders after realizing his old style wasnt working well. gibbs resigned. zorn was hired. zorn got fired. shanny got hired.

Imo, the first mistake was Gibbs hiring Saunders.

Nothing against Saunders.

But, i liked Joe Gibbs II football.

His offense seemed QB friendly and plenty of players had great production.

I never felt like Gibbs playcalling was an issue.

Sanatana running those double move comeback routes and WR screens.

The redzone production was unreal if we got near the goalline there was no doubt in my mind we were gonna score.

(I loved that I-Form 3 TE package-fake OT lead play action pass to Sellers its was money!)

The problem imo was that we didn't have good 2nd and 3rd WRs and still don't know.

Then Gibbs/Snyder/Cerrato personnel decisions didn't always work out in the teams best interests.

When Gibbs retired Cerrato/Synder promised to maintain continuity which turned out to be a lie evidenced by firing a ggreat DC then firing Saunders.

[Drastik]

No one's going to trade more than a 6th, if that, for Campbell. Would you?

Think about what you said.

Sage Rosenfels got a 4th round pick.

You honestly think that Jason Campbell, a guy who by the way threw for 3600 yards and 20+ TD's playing in the worst conditions a QB could play in last year, would command no more than a 6th round pick?

Did you think before you typed that?

[grego]

Imo, the first mistake was Gibbs hiring Saunders.

Nothing against Saunders.

But, i liked Joe Gibbs II football.

i agree. i think it could worked well if it was tweaked a little.

[darrelgreenie]

He shows no real ability as a QB' date=' I have yet to see anything out of JC that would say this kid is on his way[/quote']

Did you ever think that because you've already made your mind up about Campbell it clouds your ability to objectively assess his play?

Also, i find this statement suspect because there have been times when everyone was singing his praises.

[darrelgreenie]

You honestly think that Jason Campbell, a guy who by the way threw for 3600 yards and 20+ TD's playing in the worst conditions a QB could play in last year, would command no more than a 6th round pick?

Because some people cannot objectively or honestly view Campbell's past year; they honestly(wrongly) believe he has no trade value.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

gibbs brought in saunders after realizing his old style wasnt working well. gibbs resigned. zorn was hired. zorn got fired. shanny got hired.

the changes in offense have nothing to do with campbell, unless you fault the QB as the #1 problem. but if you do, you have to overlook the line and the play calling zorn as bigger problems.

Really? Why would I have to do that? So that we can apply another excuse to a QB who doesn't belong in the NFL?

Fact is, and I do say FACT, is that Gibbs old way's did work when Collins stepped in for the statue that is Campbell, unfortunately for Gibbs he decided to try and play GM his second go round and failed at talent evaluation where it really counts, QB.

How do you know the problem was with Zorn, other QB's have sung his praise? There is one common thread you can see that has followed JC where ever he goes, and that's coaches get fired, coordinators get replaced like cheerleaders year to year, and no matter what happens the offense never moves so long as he is behind center.

I know this will come as a big shock to the JC love-fest but enjoy your moment of uncertainty with JC to some how legitimize his play so long as he's on the team while it lasts, because it's coming to an abrupt end, BANK ON IT!

[darrelgreenie]

WHERE IN PEYTON'S STATEMENT DOES HE GIVE PROPS TO CANDLE? WHERE DOES HE EVEN CALL CANDLE GOOD? OR SAY THAT HE'S A GOOD QB?

Can you read?

Although Peyton isn't directly 'giving props' to Campbell he does admit that he thinks it would be hard to have success in Campbell's situation and that he doesn't think he would do well in the same situation.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Because some people cannot objectively or honestly view Campbell's past year; they honestly(wrongly) believe he has no trade value.

Why don't you put together a list of players other teams would trade for JC?

Or what teams would give up what draft picks? Then we can see where true objectivity lies!

[kiingspadee]

You know when I made this thread I had no idea it would go nuts like this - yeah sure it's not HUGE props but IMO the way and tone he was talking yeah it sounded like huge props - I mean saying he couldn't do it and basically saying he has no idea how he does it to me as a NON JC SUPPORTER I can say I thought it was a pretty big statement.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Did you ever think that because you've already made your mind up about Campbell it clouds your ability to objectively assess his play?

Also, i find this statement suspect because there have been times when everyone was singing his praises.

Really? You never heard it from me, why you ask, because I am not fooled by a decent drive here or there, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Could it be that JC's play made my mind up for me, and that to watch him play and actually believe he is a good QB stems form already having your mind made up?

You see that statement is typical of the JC excuse machine, make a false comment and then continue to refer to it as fact.

You really have no idea how many people were not fooled by JC's little 6-2 run in 2008, and for good reason, he didn't do much but manage the games, once teams got a read on how Zorn was using him they implemented the same game plan they used the previous year and shut him right down, which is to load the box, stop the run, and force JC to beat them downfield which he can't!

[grego]

Really? Why would I have to do that? So that we can apply another excuse to a QB who doesn't belong in the NFL?

???? HH' date=' you asked me why we were changing offenses so aften. i responded. why wouldnt you just say whether or not you thought the play calling and the line were bigger problems than our QB?

Fact is, and I do say FACT, is that Gibbs old way's did work when Collins stepped in for the statue that is Campbell, unfortunately for Gibbs he decided to try and play GM his second go round and failed at talent evaluation where it really counts, QB.

collins came in when saunders came in, which was to replace gibbs 'old ways'. i agree though, campbell is a bit of a statue. but its not his fault that gibbs decided to bring in saunders which is what we were talking about.

How do you know the problem was with Zorn, other QB's have sung his praise

i think zorn is a good QB COACH. he got campbell to put up his best numbers in horrible circumstances. but i was talking about zorn as HC and OC, and i dont think there is any debating that that experiment was a failure. is there??

I know this will come as a big shock to the JC love-fest but enjoy your moment of uncertainty with JC to some how legitimize his play so long as he's on the team while it lasts, because it's coming to an abrupt end, BANK ON IT!

up til this post, i though we were having a reasonable conversation. why the excitement?