Lifescience.com: Bible Possibly Written Centuries Earlier...

[NOLASKINSFAN]

Scientists have discovered the earliest known Hebrew writing — an inscription dating from the 10th century B.C., during the period of King David's reign.

The breakthrough could mean that portions of the Bible were written centuries earlier than previously thought. (The Bible's Old Testament is thought to have been first written down in an ancient form of Hebrew.)

Until now, many scholars have held that the Hebrew Bible originated in the 6th century B.C., because Hebrew writing was thought to stretch back no further. But the newly deciphered Hebrew text is about four centuries older, scientists announced this month.

LINK= http://www.livescience.com/history/earliest-hebrew-text-100115.html

Interesting find for both sides to spin...

[techboy]

This is a timeline of the find (the last entry has the proposed translation) from the Khirbet Qeiyafa Archeological Project's website.

It should be interesting to see how this settles out in the coming years.

Less interesting, but I am sure more passionate (if uninformed), will be the commentary and interpretation offered in the coming minutes.

[Thiebear]

So you saying Able wrote this while carving the sphinx?

i knew it!

[techboy]

My favorite comment from the timeline is this:

Prof. Larry Stager of Harvard University brought 88-year-old Prof. Frank Moore Cross to the Boston Westin Waterfront Hotel to see the ostracon. (During his academic carrier Prof. Cross has made an extremely important contribution to the understanding of the Proto-Canaanite script.) Later Prof. Stager informed us: "He was talking about it for days. In fact he couldn't sleep for two nights."

That description makes me smile.

Of course, I have no idea why they let the guy near the thing, as he is from Harvard Divinity School, and so is clearly a faith based reasoner and not to be trusted. :doh:

[NOLASKINSFAN]

This is a timeline of the find

cool find

[mardi gras skin]

wow.

Prof. Gershon Galil published a proposed reconstruction of the inscription:

• you shall not do [it], but worship the [Lord].
  
• Judge the sla[ve] and the wid[ow] / Judge the orph[an]
  
• [and] the stranger. [Pl]ead for the infant / plead for the po[or and]
  
• the widow. Rehabilitate [the poor] at the hands of the king.
  
• Protect the po[or and] the slave / [supp]ort the stranger.
  

A press release by Haifa University states: "This text is a social statement, relating to slaves, widows and orphans. It uses verbs that were characteristic of Hebrew, such as `asah ("did") and `avad ("worked"), which were rarely used in other regional languages. Particular words that appear in the text, such as almanah ("widow") are specific to Hebrew and are written differently in other local languages. The content itself was also unfamiliar to all the cultures in the region besides the Hebrew society: The present inscription provides social elements similar to those found in the biblical prophecies and very different from prophecies written by other cultures postulating glorification of the gods and taking care of their physical needs.

The contents of the text express social sensitivity to the fragile position of weaker members of society. The inscription testifies to the presence of strangers within the Israeli society as far back as this ancient period, and calls to provide support for these strangers. It appeals to care for the widows and orphans and that the king-who at that time had the responsibility of curbing social inequality-be involved. This inscription is similar in its content to biblical scriptures (Isaiah 1:17, Psalms 72:3, Exodus 23:3, and others), but it is clear that it is not copied from any biblical text."

wow.

[Burgold]

very cool stuff.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Fun stuff, I love these types of things, and it never ceases to amaze me that after all of this time they are still finding pieces of things that shine even more light on Biblical history.

[grhqofb5]

You mean Joe Smith didn't write this thing after talking to that rabbitt in the hat?

[Smoot Point Really]

I'm not really sure there is much significance in terms of the Bible... Most written tradition comes from much older oral tradition. The fragment found on a piece of pottery being consistent with text written 400 years later doesn't mean that certain books of the Bible were written earlier than is currently believed. It's a cool find, but I fail to see how it changes much historically. If someone more versed on the subject could enlighten me, I would appreciate that.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I'm not really sure there is much significance in terms of the Bible... Most written tradition comes from much older oral tradition. The fragment found on a piece of pottery being consistent with text written 400 years later doesn't mean that certain books of the Bible were written earlier than is currently believed. It's a cool find, but I fail to see how it changes much historically. If someone more versed on the subject could enlighten me, I would appreciate that.

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't change much, but for Bible junkies like myself its an awesome find.

[techboy]

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't change much, but for Bible junkies like myself its an awesome find.

The real test of this is whether or not you were up two days just thinking about the awesomeness of it.

And, as the article says, it does have an impact on the line of argument that suggests that none of the Torah could predate (in written form) the 4th or 6th century BC because that's when written Hebrew is thought to have been invented.

Which could, I suppose, have some impact on the dating of certain texts.

Like I said, I'll wait to see how this shakes out in the journals. I'm always highly suspicious of these stories when they appear in the media.

This one seems much more credible than others, though, because unlike many "this will change everything!" (only to be forgotten in 6 months) stories, it's a relatively restrained claim, and it was published in peer-reviewed academic journals first.

[Chachie]

I'm not really sure there is much significance in terms of the Bible... Most written tradition comes from much older oral tradition. The fragment found on a piece of pottery being consistent with text written 400 years later doesn't mean that certain books of the Bible were written earlier than is currently believed. It's a cool find, but I fail to see how it changes much historically. If someone more versed on the subject could enlighten me, I would appreciate that.

True, Smoot- and actually Genesis is written tradition that comes from older written tradition. The Sumerians and then the Egyptians formed a lot of what became the OT. The accounts are really, really ancient. Maybe even more ancient than those two civilizations.

[Seabee1973]

The real test of this is whether or not you were up two days just thinking about the awesomeness of it.

And, as the article says, it does have an impact on the line of argument that suggests that none of the Torah could predate (in written form) the 4th or 6th century BC because that's when written Hebrew is thought to have been invented.

Which could, I suppose, have some impact on the dating of certain texts.

Like I said, I'll wait to see how this shakes out in the journals. I'm always highly suspicious of these stories when they appear in the media.

This one seems much more credible than others, though, because unlike many "this will change everything!" (only to be forgotten in 6 months) stories, it's a relatively restrained claim, and it was published in peer-reviewed academic journals first.

So iuts no different than the missing link stories that pop up.

[DRSmith]

10 BC would cover the time of David

But if you believe Moses wrote Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Number, Job and most of Deuteronomy that would have the writing being almost 3600 years ago

[Vicious]

So iuts no different than the missing link stories that pop up.

Except there's not really a missing link anymore, so correct, the puzzle holes are being filled!

[AsburySkinsFan]

10 BC would cover the time of David

But if you believe Moses wrote Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Number, Job and most of Deuteronomy that would have the writing being almost 3600 years ago

If Moses wrote the Pentateuch then how did he write where he was buried?

Then Moses, the servant of the LORD, died there in the land of Moab, at the LORD's command. 6 He was buried in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor, but no one knows his burial place to this day. 7 Moses was one hundred twenty years old when he died; his sight was unimpaired and his vigor had not abated.

[Corcaigh]

So iuts no different than the missing link stories that pop up.

Here is one difference ... much fossil excavation is done in areas where science predicts that 'transitional' or 'missing links' will be found based on the local geology.

The Tiktaalik fossils, which have the head of a crocodile and gills of a fish and are an example of when creatures moved from the sea to the land, were unearthed in Arctic Canada. The researchers weren't digging in Artic Canada by random chance, or on a beach vacation, but because their scientific work predicted that the age and type of geology there meant that IF such creatures existed, that such geology might contain their fossils. From the link above:

"Previous research suggested that vertebrates' invasion of land took place about 375 million years ago in a river — so Shubin and fellow researchers searched for fossils in 375 million year old rocks that had preserved a river delta ecosystem. Having studied other organisms from this water/land transition, the paleontologists knew what sort of animal they were looking for. And when they did discover Tiktaalik (after five separate expeditions to Canada), it wasn't much of a surprise: Tiktaalik had the set of characteristics that they had expected to find in such an organism. In sum, discovering Tiktaalik simply confirmed many of the hypotheses biologists had held for a long time regarding the origin of terrestrial vertebrates."

Sorry for the diversion ... back to your thread now.

[alexey]

So iuts no different than the missing link stories that pop up.

If you are talking about Evolution, then I'm really not sure where you are coming from.

One is has to do with the invention of alphabetic writing systems and the other with biology. Both are important and serve to advance the human knowledge, albeit in different areas of knowledge and in a different way.

Some interesting transitional fossils that have made a lot of noise recently are the Tiktaalik and Ardi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardi

Here is the list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

[DRSmith]

If Moses wrote the Pentateuch then how did he write where he was buried?

I believe I said most of Deuteronomy, Joshua wrote part of it too.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I believe I said most of Seuteronomy, Joshua wrote part of it too.

The tradition that says Moses wrote the Pentateuch does not say that he wrote most of it, but instead all of if, although I have yet to meet one scholar who believes that is true.

[techboy]

Please tell me that a thread on Biblical archeology is not going to turn into a debate on evolution.

But then, I guess i shouldn't be surprised...

[techboy]

The tradition that says Moses wrote the Pentateuch does not say that he wrote most of it, but instead all of if, although I have yet to meet one scholar who believes that is true.

That's not my understanding. I was always under the impression that the traditional view was that Moses composed the vast majority of it, with Joshua tacking on the bit after his death, though I suppose one could attribute that to prophecy rather than addition.

[DRSmith]

The tradition that says Moses wrote the Pentateuch does not say that he wrote most of it, but instead all of if, although I have yet to meet one scholar who believes that is true.

Except the end of Deuteronomy which is credited to Joshua being written after the land was settled, as the divisions of the land are mentioned and the term down to this day is used.

[Seabee1973]

Except there's not really a missing link anymore, so correct, the puzzle holes are being filled!

theres about 20 missing links