"Tea Party" Movement Will Die after 2010

[Burgold]

:laugh:

Post 287 did it for me

You could kind of tell he was off the deep end a bit simply because none of the conservatives or Republicans rose to his defense. In fact, a number of them were actively distancing themselves.

Have to admit I was somewhat drawn to the trainwreck... although I did try to engage him and see if we could get a more real conversation. Guy made poor ole MSF seem moderate.

[mbws]

On another related subject.......I cant help but thinking that God must have one heck of a sense of Humor. I find it amazingly funny, that at the absolute zenith of the final global warming push...........Most of the world has been plunged into severe cold weather!...LMBO! I mean, you couldnt script it any better if it were a movie. Al Gore standing in the middle of a blizzard.... Its almost as if God said......" You know what, im REALLY gonna make a total fool out of these crooks for all the world to see"...LOL Umm tellin ya, the timing was PERFECT!

"I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors, but I think that God's got a sick sense of humor, and when I die I expect to find him laughing." -Martin Gore (No relation)

[mbws]

Im quite sure Dr Paul would agree with me when I say the Federal Reserve OWNS The United States. In fact, if they ORDER him to dance the funky chicken...He will do THAT too...LOL Some wont believe this, but it is......TRUE.

Fixed

Don't kid yourself. They own the repubs too.

[Henry]

Man, I will never take SnyderShrugged for granted again.

[Burgold]

Man, I will never take SnyderShrugged for granted again.

I actually PMed that thought yesterday. Lol.

but it's true.

[Fergasun]

So what do you guys think? I suppose my thesis extends to all 3rd parties as well? Unless they are willing to jump off their party bandwagon (and receive donations), no third party is going to succeed? and I'm talking about people like Senators (McCain, Demint, Coburn; just to name some conservatives) as well as House members (Bachmann, Flake, for example).

Right now its so easy money for the GOP to run with it; but all these tea party folks will be disillusioned when 2012 runs around... so don't lose hope Democrats!

[Fergasun]

... and I knew the thread was in trouble when I posted it at before 3 am and there were 4 replies by the same guy who didn't even remotely understand what I was trying to say by 4 am.

[Burgold]

So what do you guys think? I suppose my thesis extends to all 3rd parties as well? Unless they are willing to jump off their party bandwagon (and receive donations), no third party is going to succeed? and I'm talking about people like Senators (McCain, Demint, Coburn; just to name some conservatives) as well as House members (Bachmann, Flake, for example).

Right now its so easy money for the GOP to run with it; but all these tea party folks will be disillusioned when 2012 runs around... so don't lose hope Democrats!

At some point, I think there will be a third party (which will eventually replace one party and bring it down to two). It will emerge out of an internet culture where enough like minded people wind up banding together and find their voice. The internet is the new grass roots. Howard and Obama kind of proved that. A nobody without resources can develop a huge following via the internet. I think that's where it has to come from. What triggers it I'm not sure, but there is so much discontent with both parties right now that at some point when the blame game gets too tiresome, something else must emerge.

What we've seen with the Tea Party isn't the start of a third party (I don't think). It was largely manipulated anger. It's unfocused and really has become just another tool for the GOP.

[twa]

So what do you guys think? I suppose my thesis extends to all 3rd parties as well? Unless they are willing to jump off their party bandwagon (and receive donations), no third party is going to succeed? and I'm talking about people like Senators (McCain, Demint, Coburn; just to name some conservatives) as well as House members (Bachmann, Flake, for example).

Right now its so easy money for the GOP to run with it; but all these tea party folks will be disillusioned when 2012 runs around... so don't lose hope Democrats!

I think 3rd parties are destined to fail without major reforms in the system(which of course the two parties are not gonna support)

I think you will see the Tea party attempt to take control of the GOP from the bottom up.

There is already a effort underway:evilg:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/us/politics/15party.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[SnyderShrugged]

Man, I will never take SnyderShrugged for granted again.

awwww! I feel honored!

I've been lowering my presence in political threads lately (by design), but lurk still.

I had to really bite my tounge watching this one!

[@DCGoldPants]

So what do you guys think? I suppose my thesis extends to all 3rd parties as well? Unless they are willing to jump off their party bandwagon (and receive donations), no third party is going to succeed? and I'm talking about people like Senators (McCain, Demint, Coburn; just to name some conservatives) as well as House members (Bachmann, Flake, for example).

Right now its so easy money for the GOP to run with it; but all these tea party folks will be disillusioned when 2012 runs around... so don't lose hope Democrats!

Sometimes it feels like they are so close to making something happen with a 3rd party.

What these folks who are probably outcasts of their own party are lacking....is courage. Courage to be those people who flat out say "Both parties are broken...and that's why I want to form this third one. Even if it kills my political career"

[#98QBKiller]

Guy made poor ole MSF seem moderate.

That's no easy task either. At least MSF admitted that all of his arguments were opinion-based.

[Bang]

That's no easy task either. At least MSF admitted that all of his arguments were opinion-based.

And usually a hell of a lot more thought out than this clown was. MSF is someone with very rigid views, but they were his own, I have no doubt. This Landry moron just parrots whatever he's been told.

~Bang

[twa]

Sometimes it feels like they are so close to making something happen with a 3rd party.

What these folks who are probably outcasts of their own party are lacking....is courage. Courage to be those people who flat out say "Both parties are broken...and that's why I want to form this third one. Even if it kills my political career"

How will it ever happen (other than limited areas)with the restrictions on getting on most ballots and the obscene amounts of cash the majors suck up?

Much more likely to simply leverage control of one of the two.

Isn't that what the So-cons did to a large degree?

[Henry]

How will it ever happen (other than limited areas)with the restrictions on getting on most ballots and the obscene amounts of cash the majors suck up?

Much more likely to simply leverage control of one of the two.

Isn't that what the So-cons did to a large degree?

I agree. I think if the 'tea party' movement is going to truly succeed, it will do so by taking control of the GOP. And I don't think that would be a bad thing.

[Rudechain]

So what do you guys think? I suppose my thesis extends to all 3rd parties as well? Unless they are willing to jump off their party bandwagon (and receive donations), no third party is going to succeed? and I'm talking about people like Senators (McCain, Demint, Coburn; just to name some conservatives) as well as House members (Bachmann, Flake, for example).

Right now its so easy money for the GOP to run with it; but all these tea party folks will be disillusioned when 2012 runs around... so don't lose hope Democrats!

Now that the trash has been taken out, it's much easier to converse on the OP.

I do think the tea party will eventually die out, but I don't believe it will be till after the next presidential election at the eraliest. ( and that depends on which party is elected)

As a man that is best suited to the principles of the libertarian party, I liked what the tea party wanted to do in the origional context. ( smaller government, fiscal responsibility, and more personal responsibility for our own actions to name a few)

However, as was perviously stated, the tea party movement did not really get going until after Obama got elected. It's nothing more than a front for the GOP now. And the Libertarian party has lost out, because this was something that could have really helped that party.

I did manage to visit one of these tea parties last year and it was here in Georgia. The entire time, speakers only lambasted Obama and liberals. They neglected the years and years of uncontrolled spending that put the country in the position they were complaining about.

The tea parties have been taken over by a political party that is not the founders. They have usurped it and turned it into something not like what it was intended.

the only way I see it lasting past 2012 is if the Republican party fails to win the white house.

[@DCGoldPants]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/01/15/2175393.aspx

Tea Partying for profit?

Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:47 PM by Domenico Montanaro

Filed Under: Congress, Republicans, Sarah Palin

From NBC’s Domenico Montanaro

Tea Party faithful are paying a high price for admission -- more than double the cost of other similar national political conventions -- to hear former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin speak at next month's Tea Party Nation Convention in Nashville, Tenn.

The $549 per person price tag for the sold-out Feb. 6-8 event -- which is closed to all but a "select," undisclosed group of media friendly to the movement -- has angered some activists. But they began to raise questions when it was revealed that, unlike those similar national events, the organizer of the convention registered the group behind the event -- Tea Party Nation -- as a “for profit” corporation.

The little-known organizer is Judson Phillips, a self-described "small-town lawyer." He is a former assistant district attorney now in private practice, specializing in driving-under-the-influence and personal-injury cases. He is organizing the convention with his wife, Sherry, his sister-in-law, and a handful of other volunteers.

A background check of various public records databases raises questions about how he has handled money in the past. The search shows that during Phillips filed for Chapter 7 personal bankruptcy in 1999 and during the past decade, he has had three federal tax liens against him, totaling more than $22,000.

In an interview with NBC News, Phillips admitted to the financial difficulties. He declined to comment on the bankruptcy, but said the federal tax liens have been paid off.

“I work for myself,” he said. “Sometimes you have a good year; sometimes you have a bad year; sometimes you get a little bit behind; the government files a lien. They’ve been paid off. There’s millions of small businesses in this country that probably one time or another have had a tax lien filed against them. All it is is a legal mechanism to make sure that the government gets paid. And they’ve gotten paid. Case closed.”

Phillips, who said he ran in a Republican primary for a seat on the Williamson (Tenn.) County Board of Commissioners in 2002, denied that his personal finances have any bearing on his ability to be a responsible steward of Tea Party funds.

“That question is so-- that question is not asked about NBC with its advertisers or anything else,” Phillips charged. “We are putting on an event that is a convention. People are paying for their attendance. It’s a private event. People who are coming to it are private; people who are participating in it are all private citizens. It’s not really any of anybody else’s concern.”

At least two public officials, however -- Congresswomen Michelle Bachmann of Minnesota and Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee -- are slated to speak. And Palin, of course, is a former governor and vice-presidential candidate. Both Bachmann’s and Blackburn's congressional offices reaffirmed their intention to speak at the event in interviews with NBC News. They largely sidestepped questions of the appropriateness of the for-profit designation and Phillips' financial history. Both, instead, praised the Tea Party movement in general.

“Over the past year,” Bachmann spokeswoman Debbee Keller wrote in an e-mail, “Tea Parties across the nation have shared a common goal of restoring fiscal discipline and individual liberty back into the legislative process. Unfortunately, Washington has ignored their voices by belittling their values and opinions. Congresswoman Bachmann is honored by the invitation to speak at the upcoming Tea Party Convention and looks forward to working along side so many fellow Americans to achieve these fundamental principals.”

Blackburn spokesman Claude Chafin said, “We always viewed the Tea Party Nation speaking request as an acknowledgment that Marsha has a long record of fighting for the issues that are important to tea party activists: fiscal responsibility, reducing the size of government, and ending Washington’s first right of refusal on your paycheck. The tea party movement in all its manifestations -- from Tea Party Nation to the tens of thousands of Americans who traveled to Washington this fall -- is energizing the Conservative cause. Congresswoman Blackburn sees this resurgence of constitutional passion as a positive development for our nation and she is excited to lend her efforts to the cause."

With regard, specifically to the for-profit aspect of the event, Chafin added, “We’re flattered that you think of the hometown girl as a 'draw' equal to the party’s vice-presidential nominee. If this was the only tea party event she had ever addressed, it might be an issue, but she has spoken at rallies in DC and across Tennessee.”

Meghan Stapleton, Palin's spokeswoman, has not responded to an e-mail request for response.

'Not about making money'

Despite Phillips’ registration of Tea Party Nation as a for-profit corporation, he denies that he's one in a line of people trying to profit off the movement.

“This is not about making money,” Phillips said. He derided what he described as non-profits' "begging for money" with fundraising letters and e-mail solicitations. There are also limitations, for example, on non-profits' political activities.“A for-profit corporation is not subject to any of those restrictions,” he added, “so, for me, it was simply a no-brainer."

Asked if he hopes Tea Party Nation will be profitable, and he can take a salary, he said, "I'll be happy if we don't lose money. I don't think we'll lose money; I don't think we're going to make a whole lot of money. But we're not going to lose money."

Why would the convention be at risk of losing money with the price of admission and a sold-out event?

"There are costs involved in this," Phillips said, "because we're trying to throw together a first-rate convention. We want to make this a particularly good convention for the people who come here."

He identified his biggest costs as food for guests, banquet space rental (the posh Opryland Hotel in Nashville), transportation for speakers, and advertising.

Soon after Palin was named keynote speaker, rumors circulated that the admission price would go toward defraying the cost of her hefty speaking fee. Palin, who since resigning as governor, reportedly commands $100,000 per engagement and is a client of the Washington Speakers Bureau. But Palin quashed the rumors Tuesday night when she told Bill O'Reilly -- in her first interview since being named a Fox contributor -- that she would not be taking a fee for the event.

'An ax to grind'

Phillips also said he liked the idea of the "for-profit" designation, so he could be able to "generate revenue. … We can sell a product or a service.”

One way of doing that is selling Tea Party merchandise. But that is something that has been its own source of controversy. Former Phillips associate, Kevin Smith -- a Web designer who helped design the Tea Party Nation Web site -- had a falling out with Phillips over the decision to make Tea Party Nation “for-profit.”

Smith alleged in a scathing online account of his time with Phillips that Phillips linked a PayPal account for the merchandise to his wife’s bank account.

"That's completely false,” Phillips said. “There's a PayPal account that goes for the corporation. The money goes into a corporate account that is held in the name of Tea Party Nation, Incorporated.”

He added, "It's very obvious Kevin has an ax to grind. He's got a motive for doing this.”

But, as a result of Smith’s account, one major sponsor, the American Liberty Alliance, pulled its support from the convention on Wednesday.

“To be clear, the for-profit model has its place in the movement,” Eric Odom, executive director and co-founder of the alliance, wrote on the group’s Web site. “Many, MANY groups in the movement operate this way. But these groups should always have boards and oversight, and should never, ever process donations through personal PayPal accounts. In this particular case, it’s entirely possible that those involved are operating in a fair way. But when we look at the $500 price tag for the event and the fact that many of the original leaders in the group left over similar issues, it’s hard for us not to assume the worst.”

Phillips said that thinking is unfortunate and hasn't heard back from ALA -- despite his requests for an explanation.

Out of step

Nonetheless, Phillips’ designation of Tea Party Nation as “for-profit," as well as his largely shutting out the press, is out of step with other similar major national political conventions.

The Conservative Political Action Conference, known as CPAC, and its liberal counterpart Netroots Nation are both non-profit entities -- and welcome the media. Phillips, who readily admits he is not a "professional" organizer, said he was overwhelmed and surprised by the worldwide media interest in his event. Phillips says that he’s had so many requests for credentials that many journalists will not get in, but is working to make the event more accessible.

The organizers of those events question the Tea Party Nation’s “for-profit” tag.

Raven Brooks, executive director of Netroots Nation, called the "for-profit" designation a “red flag.” He said his group aims to “break even and keep everything as accessible as possible.” The admission price per person for Netroots Nation is upwards of $200. There are discounted student rates and additional funding is made available to cover costs for 40 selected individuals through the liberal group Democracy for America, Brooks said.

“It seems like a lot of the groups that are doing this [Tea Party events] -- whether they are consultants or organizers are for-profit,” Brooks said. “It seems like they’re just trying to capitalize financially on this trend out there right now. … This [particular event] feels very profit-driven.

"Sarah Palin is there, these people are charged up, and they’ll cash in.”

While the conservative Tea Party Nation is a natural ideological target for liberal activists like Brooks, that’s not the case for CPAC. CPAC attracts many of the same people who attend Tea Party events.

Glenn Beck will keynote CPAC this year. Beck famously championed his 9/12 Tea Party project; Rush Limbaugh keynoted it last year. Palin, however, chose not to attend CPAC this year, and has never attended -- despite the confab being a regular stop for Republicans looking to burnish their conservative bona fides and appeal to activists. CPAC, this year, takes place two weeks after the Tea Party Nation Convention.

(It was reported that Palin chose not to speak at CPAC because of questions surrounding David Keene, CPAC's and the American Conservative Union's chairman. Keene allegedly solicited more than $2 million for his groups from FedEx in order to shore up support for legislation that would have favored the shipping giant over rival UPS. Keene has also been critical of how Palin dealt with the press during her 2008 vice-presidential run as well as her subsequent abrupt resignation as governor.)

Like Netroots, CPAC, which has a policy of not paying speakers, charges approximately $200 and up to attend. But the goal, organizers said, is to make the event as accessible as possible to draw young people.

“CPAC has never been a ‘profit-making’ or ‘money-driven’ enterprise,” Keene said in a written statement. “I always tell the story about when Ronald Reagan leaned over to me at dinner after his election and said that the reason he would always come to CPAC is that it was the one place that activists could afford to get together, hear the people for whom they work in campaigns, exchange ideas, etc and said the one thing he hoped he could ask of us was that we'd never change that; that we'd keep it affordable so that it would never be limited to the wealthy. That was a promise I made him.”

Ultimately, though, whether it is appropriate for Tea Party Nation to be "for profit" is a "question for the people attending the event and what they think about it," said Fred Wertheimer, president of the watchdog group Democracy 21. "There's no outside set of rules or parameters." He added, "The idea that someone's around trying to make money off something is not a new concept. The test here is if people know about it, and they want to attend the event, that's their call. It is important, however, that people are made aware that this is a for-profit operation before deciding whether to attend the event.”

[ABQCOWBOY]

If Republicans take back the House and the Senate, I don't know that you will see the "Tea Party" go away. Perhaps I am naive but it seems to me that this movement is about more then a front for the GOP. Being a Republican doesn't guarantee a person that the American people will just be all good with how things are being done. This country wants real change. Not just a bunch of talk and bull****. If the GOP gets in again and does nothing, then I will be the first to sponsor a "Tea Party" meeting. I am tired of Government taking advantage of the people. This is not so complicated that a certain amount of reason can not be applied to fix the issues we face.

If the Democrats lose a golden opportunity to make real change in this country then let that be a lesson to the GOP. Do the right thing or expect regular Americans, such as myself, to stand up and work against you tooth and nail. I hope that my party does learn from all of this and start doing the work of the people as opposed to lining pockets.