ES: Time to cut the cord on Portis

[milellie111]

So it's everyone except CP's fault that we lost?

The guy gave it his all for us, no question about it. He was very productive and a great asset. But when it's time, it's time. Unless things change, it seems like it's going to be VERY difficult for him to coexist in the locker room with alot of these guys on the team.

Chemistry IS a part of football, whether you want to believe it or not.

No, it's not everybodys fault except for CP, but the quarterback has more impact on winning games/losing record than a running back does. The quarterback leads game winning drives, throws the game winning touchdown, not the running back. Basically, if Campbell played better, CP would have most likely played better(more open holes etc.) but if CP played better, i believe that Campbell would have still sucked. We've seen firsthand experience of that.

[KDawg]

Thats because Campbell would get sacked by his own shadow. That dude is the worst in pocket presence/getting rid of the ball and he causes at least 80 percent of his own sacks

And our Oline has been injury ridden for a couple years now, and when healthy wasn't very good vs. the biltz. See Seattle playoff game.

How defensive ends/linebackers has Thomas Jones put flat on their back with a block? Is Thomas Jones regarded as one of the best blocking RBs in the game?

Yes, Thomas Jones is good, but many backs can get yards and TDs. Portis gives us more than just yards and TDs.

No, it's not everybodys fault except for CP, but the quarterback has more impact on winning games/losing record than a running back does. The quarterback leads game winning drives, throws the game winning touchdown, not the running back. Basically, if Campbell played better, CP would have most likely played better(more open holes etc.) but if CP played better, i believe that Campbell would have still sucked. We've seen firsthand experience of that.

Ok, so the OL is at fault...

And Campbell is at fault.

I'm sure the WRs and TEs are at fault too...

Oh, and Portis said Sellers was at fault...

But Portis isn't.

That's what you guys are telling me... Other than the WR/TE comment.

Yup. Nevermind that our offense was more productive without Portis in the lineup.

[Skinz248]

I've never hated CP. Ever. So instead of just throwing out generalizations, perhaps think a little bit. Think critically. You seem like a smart guy.

It's not about hating him or loving him, it's about his value to the TEAM at the moment.

And I never said they were better. Come on, now. They performed as a whole a bit better for a fraction of the cost. That doesn't mean they're more talented. It means the combination got the job done for alot less than CP makes.

Dumping Portis opens up salary to sign more guys that can help us, regardless of if there is a salary cap this year or not.

See the forest through the trees, man.

The line was a patchwork line all season, for the record. CP had Samuels, the others did not. The line changed combinations so many times this season that NO ONE had a solid line.

I understand what you are saying, but if we go into the season thinking Betts, Aldridge, Mason, Ganther will lead us to the playoffs, I will disagree.

I understand dumping CP salary would help our cap issues and free money up for other positions.

Let's get back to the article that was written before this gets out of hand.

Murf I agree that Thomas Jones has been playing at a higher level than CP for a fraction of the cost, but last season towards the end of the year (being from NY/NJ area) TJ went on a FM radio station and talked so much crap about Brett Favre and how much he cost the Jets last year. (radio station was Hot 97, 97.1fm)

[Skinz248]

Ok, so the OL is at fault...

And Campbell is at fault.

I'm sure the WRs and TEs are at fault too...

Oh, and Portis said Sellers was at fault...

But Portis isn't.

That's what you guys are telling me... Other than the WR/TE comment.

Yup. Nevermind that our offense was more productive without Portis in the lineup.

Playing calling when CP was in was Zorn... With other RBs it was Sherm combo... You cannot say that this offense was the same throughout the season. In science, this would be an uncontrolled environment and would not stand with ANYONE. KDawg I know your a reasonable person, but CP wasn't the only thing that changed the offense.

[NewRegime]

The amount of production that CP brings to the table DO NOT outweigh the message and precedent that would be sent by cutting him.

I have yet to hear 1 VALID reason that is HARD TO ARGUE as to why he should be kept.

[themurf]

Murf I agree that Thomas Jones has been playing at a higher level than CP for a fraction of the cost, but last season towards the end of the year (being from NY/NJ area) TJ went on a FM radio station and talked so much crap about Brett Favre and how much he cost the Jets last year. (radio station was Hot 97, 97.1fm)

Fair enough. This is the first I've heard of that and I'll will refrain from saying, "Brett Favre should have retired three years ago. Everyone is tired of him and I've yet to hear a single person say anything good about his one season with the Jets."

Instead, I will give the opposition one point. Thanks for being a part of the discussion.

[KDawg]

but CP wasn't the only thing that changed the offense.

No, he wasn't. But we got very similar production out of our other backs than we did from CP. He's consistently hurt, he never practices, he runs his mouth too much and he's paid big money.

We can get the same, minus the headache, the constant worry for injury to one guy because we have a stable of them, and guys who practice for a fraction of the cost.

We'll need another RB, for sure. As Betts is always hurt too. But Shanahan pulls 1,000 yard rushers from the cavities in the couch. Is it necessary to have one with as much baggage as Portis?

But, if Portis stays, I'm all for him tearing up the league. I've never hated the man, and never will. He did alot for us, as I've mentioned. I just don't see how he can stay and us still be successful...

Unless things drastically change.

[KDawg]

Fair enough. This is the first I've heard of that and I'll will refrain from saying, "Brett Favre should have retired three years ago. Everyone is tired of him and I've yet to hear a single person say anything good about his one season with the Jets."

Instead, I will give the opposition one point. Thanks for being a part of the discussion.

Glad to see you refrained

[NewRegime]

Stats for those saying our backups ran better than CP... And don't give me the "well if you take out the long runs" bs.

If you have to preface the stats with that statement, that says it all. And CP had only 1 long run, which by the way are far and few between.

[NewRegime]

The players in fact felt the team had more chemistry and played better without CP in the lineup. Guess what, they did. CP didn't have to be the center of attention and they could spread the ball around.

[themurf]

If you have to preface the stats with that statement, that says it all. And CP had only 1 long run, which by the way are far and few between.

You know, if Portis' legs went half as fast as his mouth ...

[Skinz248]

Unless things drastically change.

My first point in this thread was IF Shanny/Turner can get him turned around. I agree with the rest of the stuff you have said, but if Shanny/Turner can spark him (he's only 28) he could be a good back for another 2-3 seasons. If Shanny/Turner see nothing in him that we can't get for cheaper, again I don't mind cutting chords.

[Skinz248]

Glad to see you refrained

:hysterical: was thinking the same thing when I read it.

I love this place (as long as BLC isn't turning everything into JC debate).

[Mad Mike]

Great piece.

I've been harping on this for years and taking a ton of abuse for it by CP fans. Maybe if I had used some facts and figures like you, I could have made a better argument.

The dude is just average. The only reason he has so many yards is because we keep feeding him the ball so much. Yeah he's a good blocker (when he doesn't make a mental mistake - which he has more and more the past two years) but he's not the only back in the NFL who can block.

The idea (as presented by some people on the board) that CP is a better back than Riggins would be laughable if it were not so insulting to a true Redskins legend. Riggo may be a little nuts at times and no denying he is an attention whore, but the man delivered in games and dominated defenses. No one who ever saw Riggins carry four defenders 15 yards on his back can ever claim that CP is the better running back.

Unfortunately, unless there is no cap, CP *may* be back next year. If that happens, at least with the new FO, coach, and now with all of these reports from other players and coaches, he won't get the free pass he has in the past. If that's the case, he should be serviceable for one year in a rotation.

But under no circumstances should CP ever be allowed to capture the skins rushing title. He just doesn't deserve that honor.

[NewRegime]

My first point in this thread was IF Shanny/Turner can get him turned around. I agree with the rest of the stuff you have said, but if Shanny/Turner can spark him (he's only 28) he could be a good back for another 2-3 seasons. If Shanny/Turner see nothing in him that we can't get for cheaper, again I don't mind cutting chords.

Whats the point? You can't HONESTLY tell me he can be more productive than a cheaper, faster, younger guy?

He is 28 with the legs of a 90 year old. Almost 10,000 rushing yards and 2,000+ carries, the guys is worn down.

Cutting him would set an EXCELLENT tone for the rest of the team as to who is in charge, what is expected, and what will no longer be tolerated or exist in this organization.

IMO, trying to "work with him" and "turn him around" just further emphasizes the old mentality that they will cater to their overpriced players who are above the team.

If we were talking about a player who did the same nonsense that Portis does who was on the practice squad or on the bubble, there would be no question he would be cut.

CP is no different.

[Skinz248]

Whats the point? You can't HONESTLY tell me he can be more productive than a cheaper, faster, younger guy?

He is 28 with the legs of a 90 year old. Almost 10,000 rushing yards and 2,000+ carries, the guys is worn down.

Cutting him would set an EXCELLENT tone for the rest of the team as to who is in charge, what is expected, and what will no longer be tolerated or exist in this organization.

IMO, trying to "work with him" and "turn him around" just further emphasizes the old mentality that they will cater to their overpriced players who are above the team.

If we were talking about a player who did the same nonsense that Portis does who was on the practice squad or on the bubble, there would be no question he would be cut.

CP is no different.

Cutting CP to set a tone would not be setting a tone... it would be more of the team complaining about a player and then just cutting him. If Shanny/Turner think PORTIS is the best guy to fit their run style, then they will keep him. If not no hard feelings and he is gone. I agree with that. But to cut him because the locker room was upset with him is nonsense. I wouldn't say that we are catering to our over priced players more than it is just playing with what we've got.

And no if we were talking about Santana or anyone else, I would say the same thing... If the COACHES feel he is their best shot at winning, they will keep him.

[NewRegime]

Cutting CP to set a tone would not be setting a tone... it would be more of the team complaining about a player and then just cutting him. If Shanny/Turner think PORTIS is the best guy to fit their run style, then they will keep him. If not no hard feelings and he is gone. I agree with that. But to cut him because the locker room was upset with him is nonsense. I wouldn't say that we are catering to our over priced players more than it is just playing with what we've got.

Obviously I disagree. Cutting a player who causes rifts and locker room problems in not catering to other players, its doing whats best for the team! Cutting him would not just be for that sole reason, its a serious of things. Example: Terrell Owens.

If the COACHES feel he is their best shot at winning, they will keep him.

Obviously, but if we all just decided to make this statement, we would have nothing to talk about.

I find it difficult that the coaches will feel that what CP offers outweighs the negativety he brings to the team.

[Skinz248]

Obviously I disagree. Cutting a player who causes rifts and locker room problems in not catering to other players, its doing whats best for the team! Cutting him would not just be for that sole reason, its a serious of things. Example: Terrell Owens.

Obviously, but if we all just decided to make this statement, we would have nothing to talk about.

I find it difficult that the coaches will feel that what CP offers outweighs the negativety he brings to the team.

Zorn was a problem because he didn't squash this crap when it came up. Zorn went to Snyder and asked him what to do about CP, whereas Shanny would handle it his own way.

[Peregrine]

Lets also not forget that when Portis went down with injury, Betts stepped in and played great. If someone else can step in and fill the shoes the same, why is Portis worth THAT much?

[War Paint]

I think Portis could have a nice comeback under Shanahan. If Shanahan thinks it's best to cut the cord, I'll support it. If Shanahan thinks he can get Portis back to form, that's even better. I don't think Portis is the main concern on offense. I would like to see a Time to cut the cord on JC article.

[Sellersfan]

As discussed in other threads, individual stats are not fair when making comparisons. As much as I dont like the guy, Belicheck said it best: "Stats are for losers."

While I would like to see CP move on based on salary alone, I think he has been a better back than Jones.

The thing we need to look at is the Jets have quietly built one of the best Olines in the league. It makes Jones and Sanchez's jobs alot easier, and one of Favre's factors in determining where he wanted to play was the quality of the Oline

[SirClintonPortis]

None of these guys ran better than Portis man.. I will post the stats up from the last time I compared them

lolright. Portis only posted a 4.0 YPC because he had that 78-yarder that went nowhere. Take that out and he averaged 3.38, which is horrible.

[NewRegime]

Zorn was a problem because he didn't squash this crap when it came up. Zorn went to Snyder and asked him what to do about CP, whereas Shanny would handle it his own way.

Actually, it was reported that Zorn had his legs cut from underneath him. Obviously Shanny wouldn't allow it, but Vinny and Danny allowed Portis to do what he did.

I hope Murf is still in the thread to shed more light and correct me if I am wrong.

[themurf]

As discussed in other threads, individual stats are not fair when making comparisons. As much as I dont like the guy, Belicheck said it best: "Stats are for losers."

What exactly do you think Portis and his agent used as a basis for that eight-year, $50.5 million deal? His good looks? His charm? No. They used his production in Denver to get the Redskins to overpay. For better or worse, stats and wins/losses are what we have in front of us when looking at whether or not Portis is worth the money this team is paying him. Well ... unless you'd like to talk about his off-the-field drama.

[themurf]

Actually, it was reported that Zorn had his legs cut from underneath him. Obviously Shanny wouldn't allow it, but Vinny and Danny allowed Portis to do what he did.

I hope Murf is still in the thread to shed more light and correct me if I am wrong.

More than a few Redskins players are convinced that some players thought it was acceptable to run to the owner when they didn't like what their coach had to say. Those same players have told me that, while they've never physically seen Portis walking out of Snyder's office or walked in on the two talking, that they've heard enough and seen enough around Redskins Park to believe it happened.

Remember, this is the same front office that stripped Zorn of his playcalling duties, so it's not exactly out of the realm of possibility to believe they also took away what little authority he had off the field.