TheLongshot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 If the team wants to keep Cartwright as a special teams player, then I'm all for it. The guy has been nothing but class since he's been here and, like you said, he's a leader in the locker room. But in a running back discussion, he can be lumped in with Portis and Betts as guys who should not be counted on heading into next year. That's why I don't lump Rock in with those other guys. His role has always been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 If Portis will change his ways he could be elite for 2 or 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRegime Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 If Portis will change his ways he could be elite for 2 or 3 years. What makes you CONFIDENTLY say that based on what you have seen? History tells us that he is on the decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRegime Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I'm a believer in two things.1. Good running backs are a dime a dozen. While an "elite" running back - Johnson' date=' Peterson, etc - are an obvious cut above the rest, the difference between Ray Rice and the second string guy in Tampa is probably not all the great. In rare rare instances would I ever advocate building an offense around a running back or spending a lot of money on one. 2. I'm a big believer that it is better to lose a player one year too early over one year too late. If Portis leaves and has a great year in someplace like Cleveland, it will be disappointing. At the same time, I'd rather live with that disappointment than the frustration of watching him average 3.1 ypc the next two years.[/quote'] I couldn't agree more on all accounts!! Look at recent Super Bowls (last several years). The Super Bowl was one with a good defense, a franchise QB, and a solid ground game WITHOUT elite RBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 What makes you CONFIDENTLY say that based on what you have seen? History tells us that he is on the decline. All depends on what he is willing to do to condition and improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Great article. Here is the bigger issue though: Real teams, with real FO's--extremely intelligent people, trade Portis 2 or 3 years ago. We could have Boldin on this team right now. Or some real linemen. Us? We hold onto him until he completely self-destructs, and we can now get nothing for him. This is why we haven't been able to compete in the past. Terrible decision-making by total clowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Great article. Here is the bigger issue though: Real teams, with real FO's--extremely intelligent people, trade Portis 2 or 3 years ago. We could have Boldin on this team right now. Or some real linemen. As I have asked repeatedly: how would you have paid all those linemen or Boldin? Trading him would have eaten up tens of millions in cap. Its probly just better to say that they shouldnt have signed him into that lockdown deal with all that guaranteed money, then you could have feasibly moved him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 As I have asked repeatedly: how would you have paid all those linemen or Boldin? Trading him would have eaten up tens of millions in cap. Well first, you never make a contract like that to begin with. You hopefully have the intelligence to never get into that hole. Obviously we didn't have that. Once you are screwed, you either work out a deal with another team to eat part of his cap hit, or you refrain from making the same mistake yet again with Haynesworth. It isn't difficult. This isn't curing cancer. This is simply putting a football team together, and having some foresight to know what is likely to happen in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 It isn't difficult. This isn't curing cancer.This is simply putting a football team together, and having some foresight to know what is likely to happen in the future. Building through the draft instead of overpaying for free agents and other people's players?!? That's crazy enough, it just might work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRegime Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Yep - you get your best bang for you buck with young hungry players that are drafted and give you dollars on the penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Well first, you never make a contract like that to begin with.You hopefully have the intelligence to never get into that hole. Obviously we didn't have that. Once you are screwed, you either work out a deal with another team to eat part of his cap hit, or you refrain from making the same mistake yet again with Haynesworth. It isn't difficult. This isn't curing cancer. This is simply putting a football team together, and having some foresight to know what is likely to happen in the future. But you didnt say that. You said real FOs make the move to get him off the team and bring in Boldin and or linemen. I want to hear what move 2-3 years ago you could make that would bring in Boldin and or lineman. You have to get a team to eat his salary, get them to give up quality players, and you have to either get them to eat the dead cap for us or manage to operate the team with (now I cant pull up the figure) something like $15M per year for 2 years. Every time you get on your soapbox and rant about how stupid we are for keeping Portis I have to remind you of the infeasibility of moving him. Now, if youre talking about being smart with your money, I agree, why sign that deal in the first place. But if youre being smart with your money, why move him 2-3 years ago if youre going to be eating all that money. Again, like I and other people have pointed out, for finanncial reasons, this year is pretty much the only realistic opportunity for moving Portis. How much value he still has remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikie Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 the fact is we are paying portis roughly 6.5m in 2010 whether he we cut him or not... the uncapped year doesn't affect him at all since it's guaranteed money... so if you are shanahan, you have to evaluate portis and then if you believe he's of no value to the team, you have to tell your new boss that his golden child is worthless and he'll have to eat the 6.5M... something tells me there'll be a spot on the roster for portis... I just don't see us cutting him and paying him that amount... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 You have to get a team to eat his salary, get them to give up quality players, and you have to either get them to eat the dead cap for us or manage to operate the team with (now I cant pull up the figure) something like $15M per year for 2 years. This. Boldin wanted out of Arizona badly. Portis was obviously going to end badly. Ditto for Brandon Marshall, although riskier. Once screwed by our own stupidity, that is when we should have reached out to them to see what we could accomplish in a Portis/Boldin type move exactly like you are describing above. Would they eat the entire cap hit? Of course not. 30% of it? Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Worthy Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 If Portis will change his ways he could be elite for 2 or 3 years. Not with Bone Spurs that he refuses to get surgery on. And thinking getting a shot come game time will make it worse down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 This. Sorry, but eljeasel is wrong about another team able to eat a cap hit from a salary bonus. That can't happen. We've been over that in the past. Cap hits are cap hits. They have to be taken somewhere if the player is not on your roster. BTW, I guess you think that the Chargers don't have a real FO either. By your measure, the Chargers should have traded LT away a long time ago. (never mind that the market for older running backs is pretty flat.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Sorry, but eljeasel is wrong about another team able to eat a cap hit from a salary bonus. That can't happen. We've been over that in the past. Cap hits are cap hits. They have to be taken somewhere if the player is not on your roster. Is that true? You cant have someone else eat the dead cap? Jeez, I hear that thrown around by talking heads and I never questioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Is that true? You cant have someone else eat the dead cap? Jeez, I hear that thrown around by talking heads and I never questioned it. Nope. Can't be done. It is debatable if a player can "buy back" some of that. For example, I don't know exactly what went on when Lavar was released, but there were some dealings to get his contract more cap friendly for a release. But, that doesn't really apply in this case since Portis doesn't have much of a desire to leave this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Sorry, but eljeasel is wrong about another team able to eat a cap hit from a salary bonus. That can't happen. We've been over that in the past. Cap hits are cap hits. They have to be taken somewhere if the player is not on your roster. From a "salary bonus" perhaps not. From regular pay, yes. And something should have been worked out. His handling represents the very worst of this franchise over the last ten seasons. 1. Fleeced on the trade. Portis has made the Pro Bowl once. This year, Champ was just voted in for his 9th or 10th time. 2. A crazy contract, that was made worse and worse as time went on. 3. The failed strategy of believing that an offense should ever be built around one single RB. 4. Dan's meddling, and playing favorites over performance. Enough already. Cut him, and we can forget he ever happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalRecall Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Funny how a lot of ES members rebuked the idea of getting rid of Portis just 2 years ago, but now everyone wants to get rid of him. I saw more of Thomas Jones when he was in Chicago. I liked him a lot. He's a work horse in the NFL blue collar category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlass Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 There are some great points you guys make there, but I'm a little hesitant to call this a divorce. Portis gained the most yards of his career in Denver, he really likes Shanahan and I see just a thread of light that gives me hope Portis will stay. If he dedicates this offseason to become what he once was Shanny might very well keep him. Shanny love young RBs, but I think even more than that in Portise he has a VET back that excelled under the ZB scheme. If Shanny likes what he sees in Portis during camp etc, I think Portis could stay around. Beliueve me Portis is drooling at the fact that he might be able to run in his old offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoMike Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 If we cut Portis out, we should also throw Campbell out. I deleted the rest of my comments and will reserve for the future. Kind of like a Campbell move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 I loved portis when he first got here. He was a dynamic player, tops at his position in the league at the time. He quickly became my favorite player until Taylor was drafted. I'll never forget his blocking, but his words lack little to be desired at this stage of his career. He either needs to shut up and get to work immediately, or he's going to be just another in a long line of free agent busts to come through washington since Snyder has owned the team. I agree with you, murf, he's a cancer and needs to be let go. I guess part of me hopes he will do the right thing and re-dedicate himself to his craft. Nice read:cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuryYourDuke Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Way to steal JLC's thunder. He's been making the Thomas Jones comparison for at least 2 years. Maybe more. I hate JLC, don't get me wrong, but this is his gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 I agree with you, murf, he's a cancer and needs to be let go.I guess part of me hopes he will do the right thing and re-dedicate himself to his craft. Nice read:cheers: Cancer is a bit strong. When I think of that, I think of Terrell Owens actively trying to divide a locker room just so he can bask in the chaos. Portis is self centered, but his intentions aren't really ever anything other than thinking of himself. In his mind he isn't saying things about Campbell, Sellers or the offensive line because he dislikes them or anything like that. He's just "calling it as he sees it" while only thinking of how these people affect him. That plus is lazy attitude towards practice, staying in shape, etc., are more than enough reasons to let him go, but I wouldn't call him a cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Way to steal JLC's thunder. He's been making the Thomas Jones comparison for at least 2 years. Maybe more. I hate JLC, don't get me wrong, but this is his gig. The fatal flaw in your argument is assuming that I read anything Jason la Canfora writes. And since he wasn't on the Redskins beat this season, being with the NFL Network and all, you're essentially saying that I should have known that someone else made this argument two years ago and therefore should have written about something else. To that I say, people on this board have been dissecting anything and everything about Jason Campbell for four years. Does that mean that no one else should ever write another word about him? While it's a nice thought to dream of a day when this board doesn't obsess over every positive and negative about Campbell, it's also pretty unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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