Explain the "Wait and See" Approach

[ThePreciating]

In many threads here, people are claiming to take a "wait and see" approach on Allen/Shanahan.

Can you all clarify this? Do you mean you'll wait to see if we have a winning season this year? Do you mean you'll wait to see if we've won the division within five years? Do you mean you'll wait to see if Dan Snyder is still secretly pulling strings?

We have a great GM, we have a great coach.

What exactly are you waiting for? How long are you willing to patiently wait for it?

[SkinsHokieFan]

My "wait and see" is to have a competitive team by 2012

Not a Superbowl team by then, just a team that can compete for a playoff spot

[panel]

My "wait and see" is to have a competitive team by 2012

Not a Superbowl team by then, just a team that can compete for a playoff spot

So does that mean you are not going to start calling for heads if bad things start happen between now a 2012?

[scruffylookin]

There are two "wait and sees"

The first one is to see if Danny pulls the plug early on this setup like he did with Marty.

Of course the seond one is to see if Shanallen is actually going to work out and build a winning organization that wins year in and year out. But that is more generic. My main focus is the first one.

[ThePreciating]

My fear is that we'll go 5-11 this season, and people will claim the game has passed Shanahan by. Or, people will claim we're still clueless.

I am pledging to no longer get mad at the Redskins owner, GM, or coach until the 2013 season. Once two full seasons have completed, we can start demanding accountability. Until then, I think we really need to let Shanahan build his vision. The pitchforks and torches need to be locked away in a "lock-box" for a couple seasons.

[RedskinsTime]

All of the above.

The wait and see approach is in response to people predicting super bowl already.

Dan could only last one year without having control. Wait and see if he really got the message this time.

People were calling for super bowl when Gibbs came back the second time, but it appeared as if the game had passed him by. Is this the case with Shanahan? I don't think so, but wait and see.

Can Shanahan put his defensive personnel mistakes behind him and finally have a dominant defense? Wait and see.

If the last decade has taught me anything, it is not to celebrate in the streets with every big name signing. We have to be cautiously optimistic.

[tshile]

Because we've seen the movie before

its called 'mediocrity'.

gibbs

shottenheimer

which first timers in between - spurrier, zorn.

The wait an see approach is: "Lets wait and see if Shanahan and Allen make all the moves, if they take control away from snyder. And (here's the big one) if Snyder doesn't fire them when they do".

its really not that hard.

[panel]

In many threads here, people are claiming to take a "wait and see" approach on Allen/Shanahan.

Can you all clarify this? Do you mean you'll wait to see if we have a winning season this year? Do you mean you'll wait to see if we've won the division within five years? Do you mean you'll wait to see if Dan Snyder is still secretly pulling strings?

We have a great GM, we have a great coach.

What exactly are you waiting for? How long are you willing to patiently wait for it?

That is a good point, any one who says "wait and see" should automatically give up their right to come back later and say that hiring Shanahan was a bad move, because the fact of the matter is at the time of his hire (the time that Snyder had to make the hire) they did not disagree, they thought it may work, but just didn't want to put their full support into it because they don't want to risk looking stupid if it fails.

[Commander Adama]

For some a "wait and see" is if they turn out bad they can say I told you so, but if they turn out good they can jump on the bandwagon.

But seriously, with most they are just cautious with their feelings. This franchise has, time and time again, broken their heart and they are tentative about putting themselves out there again. For me, I always drink the Kool-Aid wearing Rose-Colored Glasses singing HTTR.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I plan on "waiting" until the season starts and then "seeing" the games.

I have every intent of giving Shanahan full two seasons to suck.

I also might call for his firing at the end of next September.

I'm a fan. I can do what I want.

[Commander Adama]

Because we've seen the movie before

its called 'mediocrity'.

gibbs

shottenheimer

which first timers in between - spurrier, zorn.

The wait an see approach is: "Lets wait and see if Shanahan and Allen make all the moves, if they take control away from snyder. And (here's the big one) if Snyder doesn't fire them when they do".

its really not that hard.

Gibbs is mediocre? What? It doesn't matter that Shanahan had talked to BOTH Gibbs and Shottenheimer about the position. No, you have to say they were mediocre because they didn't bring back a Lombardi trophy in the first season. :doh:

[pez]

I got everything I wanted...

- New respectable GM

- New respectable coach (who by the way is bringing in a young coordinator who could stabilize this franchise for years to come)

- Snyder stepping back (there is no way in hell Shanahan signed on without telling snyder to back off the team)

I am buying in now.... the rest of you all can wait if you want, but fan is short for fanatic, and as such, I like to jump into the lake headfirst without looking. If things do fall apart... its not like I am going to be more or less miserable than the people with the wait and see attitude other than the fact that they will spout off "I told you so"

Come on folks... wait and see is no fun! Life is too short! Jump into fray now and enjoy the ride

You know you want to

[dchogs]

i might call myself a bit more optimistic than "wait and see," but i'm definitely waiting to see if Dan takes a true step back. i'm fine with coaches giving him updates on the game plan and such during friday afternoon lunches in the office, but he needs to be completely out of player (college and pro) scouting.

i'm also waiting to see if there is a clear direction allen/shanny are taking the team; one that is consistent for years.

i'm also "waiting to see" to preserve my sanity. this past year was a refreshing step back for me as a fan... my week was no longer ruined, i no longer had to count to 10 to stop myself from using my remote as a plasma-buster, etc. i'm gun shy. we've had big signings before in our front office that haven't really produced a consistently solid team, and i've been jaded by the past, damn, 16 years.

[ThePreciating]

I am buying in now.... the rest of you all can wait if you want, but fan is short for fanatic, and as such, I like to jump into the lake headfirst without looking. If things do fall apart... its not like I am going to be more or less miserable than the people with the wait and see attitude other than the fact that they will spout off "I told you so"

Come on folks... wait and see is no fun! Life is too short! Jump into fray now and enjoy the ride

You know you want to

Post of the year. :applause:

[tshile]

Gibbs is mediocre? What? It doesn't matter that Shanahan had talked to BOTH Gibbs and Shottenheimer about the position. No, you have to say they were mediocre because they didn't bring back a Lombardi trophy in the first season. :doh:

?

calm down battle cat.

The results were mediocre. We had two playoff appearances (which is great compared to the other results) but both were ones in which we backed in (with winning streaks at the end) and performed terribly once we got there. what did we have, 150 total yards agains the bucs? A seattle game in which we gave up?

I didn't expect a super bowl, and gibbs brought us more than any other caoch has under snyder. Not to mention the way he handled himself, the fans, and the team when ST passed. I'll forever be greatful that he was the man at the helm.

But to call ANY of the seasons under snyder anything better than 'mediocre' is... well a little too nice in my opinion.

I also would call some of the personell moves gibbs made 'terrible'. But he took us to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years. Better than anyone else so far under snyder.

[laxpck]

THe present leadership gets 2-3 seasons before I start wondering. It takes that long to start a dynasty machine. Thats what I expect.

I couldnt give a rats behind if we go 0-16 next year if we address our O line deficiencies and have our QB situation ironed out.

Getting Vinny out of here has done more to increase my patience then bringing in Team Shanahallen

[Henry]

That is a good point, any one who says "wait and see" should automatically give up their right to come back later and say that hiring Shanahan was a bad move, because the fact of the matter is at the time of his hire (the time that Snyder had to make the hire) they did not disagree, they thought it may work, but just didn't want to put their full support into it because they don't want to risk looking stupid if it fails.

What kind of logic is that?

The fact is, if Snyder refuses to recognize he's not a significant part of the front office equation it doesn't matter what move he makes. It will be bad.

I'm waiting to see if he can let the people he hired do their job. I'm waiting to see if Allen is more than a figurehead hired primarily to lure a coach here that has a history of making bad personnel decisions.

I appreciate the optimism, but I don't see how anyone who has followed this team for the past ten years can give Snyder the benefit of the doubt anymore. That's simply baffling to me.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

My "Wait and see" is:

A team that doesn't make the same stupid mistakes every year.

An 'O' that looks like a pro-o.

A team that doesn't lose every close game.

If we can do that i would be very happy.

[ThePreciating]

I appreciate the optimism, but I don't see how anyone who has followed this team for the past ten years can give Snyder the benefit of the doubt anymore. That's simply baffling to me.

Did you read about the contract yet? Final say is written into Shanahan's contract. If Snyder wants to override Shanahan, he has to be prepared to fire him.

Schottenheimer - fireable. Shanahan - unfireable.

[Henry]

Gibbs is mediocre? What? It doesn't matter that Shanahan had talked to BOTH Gibbs and Shottenheimer about the position. No, you have to say they were mediocre because they didn't bring back a Lombardi trophy in the first season. :doh:

I love Gibbs. I think he was and is a great, great coach. Maybe the best ever.

But looking at the Redskins from '99 to '09 you cannot call the team anything but mediocre. Gibbs was the best of the bunch during that span. That alone should tell you how good a coach he is. But if the best you can point to in ten years is a 10 win season and a win in the wildcard round ... mediocre is a kind word.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Come on folks... wait and see is no fun! Life is too short! Jump into fray now and enjoy the ride

You know you want to

While I won't make any claims about what we will or won't do, I'm definitely on board. I don't see many scenarios that would be able to match the events of the last couple of weeks.

[tshile]

That is a good point, any one who says "wait and see" should automatically give up their right to come back later and say that hiring Shanahan was a bad move, because the fact of the matter is at the time of his hire (the time that Snyder had to make the hire) they did not disagree, they thought it may work, but just didn't want to put their full support into it because they don't want to risk looking stupid if it fails.

Just like everything else in life.

I'm giving them a chance.

If snyder fires them because he can't handle not having control - then I'll say nothing has changed.

If either (or both) shanahan and allen have terrible results - then I'll say that Snyder has changed, needs to stay the course, and find new people to fill the roles (i'll give them 4,5 years as long as the efforst appear right. i will not sit idely by and watch moves like ceratto made continue to happen).

the potential is there - but noone can see the future. If the results aren't what i want (and i'm not talking about win-loss record), then I'll demand new people.

It takes a while to build something great. If steps are being taken in that direction - I'll be happy. If more boneheaded moves are made, I wont be.

This is coming from a guy with season tickets, who wasn't goign to get rid of them regardless of who was head coach or if zorn was back.

I'll give anything a chance. But it kills me to see stupid mistakes made. It also kills me to see rash decisions made. Snyder needs to show the upmost patients. And so does the fan base. We're a mess. Noone can be expected to clean it up in one or two offseasons.

[youngestson]

We have a great GM, we have a great coach.

What exactly are you waiting for? How long are you willing to patiently wait for it?

I am taking a wait and see approach because I have seen so many "new starts" flame out (or with Gibbs II, fizzle).

If the problems with this team start at the top, as I am inclined to believe, than I am waiting to see if Danny has truly learned his lesson or is just bidding his time and taking a lower profile. One way or another it has become clear that Danny had some sort of deal with Mike before even hiring Bruce Allen, as Shanny has repeatedly made reference to "getting Allen". So some of the old Snyder remains, but it's a start and I give him some credit.

As for the idea that we have a "Great GM, we have a great coach" again time will tell.

Shanny is a very good coach, but there are questions about his judgment of players and talent. Perhaps he has learned and will improve, maybe not. Maybe his style will work in the NFC East, maybe not. Maybe he still burns with desire and will be the first Super Bowl winning coach to win again with another team, maybe he will be decidedly average the second time around. I'll wait and see.

Allen has a very good reputation as a business end and cap guy. But again, he has not distinguished himself in the choice of talent. Maybe he will improve maybe he will not. Perhaps he will be able to strike a ballence between player personel guys and a very confident and demanding coach (Type A guys all) maybe not. I'll wait and see.

I personally am willing to wait for 3-5 seasons. You need to give offices and coaches time to do things there way, and to allow them to become successful or to fail doing things their way. Anything else and one will never know.

Will there be set backs? Heck yea, and games where we will pull out our collective hair while sputtering incoherently at the T.V. or spilling our $14.00 beers at Fed EX. But time will tell. Shoot, I was even willing to give Jason a chance through this year before becoming convinced he is a low middle-of-the-pack QB so I am able to wait and see.

Funny thing actually I am more optimistic now than I was back when Joe returned. Know why? Because back with Joe, Vinny was still in the picture and Danny had not had his hands burned quite enough to teach him his lesson. Now there is a real GM and an apparently chastised owned (maybe) moving to the background. With Joe, Danny was front and center all the way, with a coach 10 years out of the league depending on Vinny. Even then I had a dull feeling that it might not work, and sadly I was right.

So I am optimistic, but also experienced. That's while I'll wait and see.

[stwasm]

What kind of logic is that?

The fact is, if Snyder refuses to recognize he's not a significant part of the front office equation it doesn't matter what move he makes. It will be bad.

I'm waiting to see if he can let the people he hired do their job. I'm waiting to see if Allen is more than a figurehead hired primarily to lure a coach here that has a history of making bad personnel decisions.

I appreciate the optimism, but I don't see how anyone who has followed this team for the past ten years can give Snyder the benefit of the doubt anymore. That's simply baffling to me.

:applause::applause::applause:

And this comes with the understanding that, as a 4-12 team, there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed and will take at least two years to at least plug in all the holes that plague the team now.

[Forever21]

I think the Wait and See approach has more to do with Snyder than with Allen and Shanahan.

People don't trust Snyder to stay out of it, yet.