kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I can't really argue with the OP. I'm starting to think that organizations who do well just happen to get lucky and find quality guys to run the team. The Angels were a mediocre franchise for almost it's entire existence... Mike Scoscia takes over and Arte Moreno buys the team, and wa-la, playoff contenders and division winners every year. I hope I'm still alive the day that the Redskins get equally lucky, but I predict that as long as Snyder owns this team 1999, 2005, and 2007 will be as good as it gets folks. And as the OP said, there is not much that we fans can do about it. Thank you---well put. A "fan revolt" makes the assumption that Snyder is completely willing to change the way he has done business his entire life-- I don't see that happening. I truly think our best bet is for Snyder to kind of "luck" into a hire that works. Your Angels analogy was excellent. I am a Reds fan and they have not had a winning record in 10 years. Fans in Cincy feel cheated by the ownership that promised competitive teams once the new stadium opened...they are still waiting. Fans have marched, moaned, griped, called for heads, etc. and yet nothing has really changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadKarma Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Fans revolt cause we hate the owner and the lackluster effort, fans in this town would cheer on a 0-16 team if they felt this team was busting its ass and headed in the right direction, unfortunately this is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawaiiskins Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 This is exactly the type of apathy that will make the redskins languish in the bottom of the league, nonetheless at the bottom of the NFC East! What do you mean us fans can't do "ANYTHING!" Are you kidding! As consumers we have the power to break Mr. Snyder's smugness. You don't think he was pissed when the Cowgirls became the most valuable franchise? What do you think he would do if the "value" of the Skins were less than the Jaguars. Sheesh, even one blackout would make him poo his pants. As for your examples, none of them are applicable because the fans DID NOTHING other than b*#ch! Consumer boycotts work like magic. All it takes is a concerted effort. Remember a lil' thing called "New Coke?" Well Mr. Snyder has made the Redskins the "New Skins" and this brand needs to go! NOW! We can do it if we all believe. I am not saying don't pull for them or watch the games, just don't buy gear or tickets. If enough of us do that I guarantee that there will be changes. Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'm still hoping that someone will get the "JACK - KENT - COOKE" chant started, so loud that it can be heard on the broadcast. That simple chant would say everything that needs to be said. Will it help effect change? Probably not. But it sure would make me and many, many others feel good to hear it. It would also humiliate Danny. That alone would be worth the price of admission. I applaud those of you trying to do SOMETHING during gametime to make Redskin Nation's disgust known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I like the post by the OP.The most importnat thing you said was referring to Snyder being more than willing to spend money...this is WHY I like Daniel Snyder. (...) When we DO hoist the Lombardi Trophy, it'll make all the more sweet... He doesn't spend money to make a contender primarily. He is spending money to make a splash and ramp up the excitement. Somewhere on second or third priority is building a contender. Somewhere down there. That has to be true, or we have a totally incompetent FO. One of those two, or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The question is: Did the Lions fans help make change with the Millen Man March. My answer: No. It took the Ford's three more years to pull their heads out their butts before they canned him. I'm not debating whether or not the FO is doing a good job-- it's painfully clear they are not....but where i disagree with you and others is that fan revolts can make a difference....I can find no real historical data to back that up. I don't know what else to say to you kleese. I believe that the fans DID play a role in Ford's decision. It just took longer the they wanted it to. I would hope that Snyder wouldn't take as long listening to the voices of the fans, former players, executives, coaches and media. If he does, his life will be very unpleasnt in the DC area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 This is exactly the type of apathy that will make the redskins languish in the bottom of the league, nonetheless at the bottom of the NFC East! What do you mean us fans can't do "ANYTHING!" Are you kidding! As consumers we have the power to break Mr. Snyder's smugness. You don't think he was pissed when the Cowgirls became the most valuable franchise? What do you think he would do if the "value" of the Skins were less than the Jaguars. Sheesh, even one blackout would make him poo his pants. As for your examples, none of them are applicable because the fans DID NOTHING other than b*#ch! Consumer boycotts work like magic. All it takes is a concerted effort. Remember a lil' thing called "New Coke?" Well Mr. Snyder has made the Redskins the "New Skins" and this brand needs to go! NOW! We can do it if we all believe. I am not saying don't pull for them or watch the games, just don't buy gear or tickets. If enough of us do that I guarantee that there will be changes. Hail! OK, let's examine "changes." What exactly will constitute satisfactory change? Are the revolting fans drafting some sort of document for Snyder to sign that outlines what will make them happy? Is it as simple as firing Vinny? In 2004, Snyder hired a man to run the entire show and Snyder took a backseat....do you want him to do that again? Do you want a young personell guy from another organization? A proven GM? A GM/coach combo? What if Snyder hires a GM and he stinks. What if the new GM drafts a WR over an OL next year? Do we revolt again? It's all just so unclear. The fans act like there is some magic solution out there that Snyder is choosing to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Note to those attending the game Sunday. Since Danny boy is preventing fans from bringing in signs (a sign that he is feeling the pressure kleese) perhaps you could get a "Fire Vinny" chant going? I know it's lame, but it has to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'm still hoping that someone will get the "JACK - KENT - COOKE" chant started, so loud that it can be heard on the broadcast. That simple chant would say everything that needs to be said. Will it help effect change? Probably not. But it sure would make me and many, many others feel good to hear it. It would also humiliate Danny. That alone would be worth the price of admission. I applaud those of you trying to do SOMETHING during gametime to make Redskin Nation's disgust known. Funny, I think you can trace the demise of the franchise directly to JKC: 1. He chose not to leave the Redskins to his son...he chose for it to go to the highest bidder. 2. FedEx is his baby-- fans hate the stadium, and it's 100% on JKC--people act like Snyder built it. 3. JKC adored Norv...that was his hire and it turned out to be a disaster. He also stuck with Casserly who was a dreadful GM. Without Gibbs in town, JKC didn't look too smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Note to those attending the game Sunday. Since Danny boy is preventing fans from bringing in signs (a sign that he is feeling the pressure kleese) perhaps you could get a "Fire Vinny" chant going?I know it's lame, but it has to start somewhere. OH, I have NO doubt he feels the pressure-- that's sort of my point...I think he pretty much already knows he's despised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I don't know what else to say to you kleese. I believe that the fans DID play a role in Ford's decision. It just took longer the they wanted it to. I would hope that Snyder wouldn't take as long listening to the voices of the fans, former players, executives, coaches and media. If he does, his life will be very unpleasnt in the DC area. I think that's a convinient way to look at it. I think it was the years and years of horrible decisions and teams that finally led to his firing...if the Ford family really cared about what the fans wanted, he would have fired Millen three years earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 OH, I have NO doubt he feels the pressure-- that's sort of my point...I think he pretty much already knows he's despised. According to George Michael, an admitted friend of Dan Snyder, he's clueless to it and doesn't understand why. Does this sound like someone who thinks he needs to change his ways on his own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadKarma Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Funny, I think you can trace the demise of the franchise directly to JKC: 1. He chose not to leave the Redskins to his son...he chose for it to go to the highest bidder. 2. FedEx is his baby-- fans hate the stadium, and it's 100% on JKC--people act like Snyder built it. 3. JKC adored Norv...that was his hire and it turned out to be a disaster. He also stuck with Casserly who was a dreadful GM. Without Gibbs in town, JKC didn't look too smart. JKC left the team to the highest bidder to leave behind a legacy in the form of his foundation which does a ton of great work, I am betting when Snyder dies off he will bury himself with all his money in a big tomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 JKC left the team to the highest bidder to leave behind a legacy in the form of his foundation which does a ton of great work, I am betting when Snyder dies off he will bury himself with all his money in a big tomb. Fair enough, but facts are facts. JKC's wishes are what opened the door for Snyder and prevented John Cooke from becoming owner, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think that's a convinient way to look at it. I think it was the years and years of horrible decisions and teams that finally led to his firing...if the Ford family really cared about what the fans wanted, he would have fired Millen three years earlier. I agree that the losing played a vital role. But, the fans spoke loudly and IMO it persuaded Ford to finally pull the trigger. There is no easy formula to fix the 'skins which is why we are demanding change NOW. It's going to take several steps to fix this mess, but getting rid of Vinny should be the first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 getting rid of Vinny should be the first step. I think that's the one point of agreement you have from EVERYONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 OH, I have NO doubt he feels the pressure-- that's sort of my point...I think he pretty much already knows he's despised. Just firing Vinny would give him some small reprieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I agree that the losing played a vital role. But, the fans spoke loudly and IMO it persuaded Ford to finally pull the trigger.There is no easy formula to fix the 'skins which is why we are demanding change NOW. It's going to take several steps to fix this mess, but getting rid of Vinny should be the first step. See, here's the deal. While I totally agree that Vinny is a bad GM, he's only technically been the GM since the end of the 2007 season... Gibbs was the GM the previous 4 years. So, from January of 2008 until today, Vinny has called the shots. While I don't like the shots he's called, I'm also not sure his decisions have been so bad that it would constitute a fan revolt. I think the fans need to decide exactly what they want Snyder to do...is firing Vinny all he needs to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Just firing Vinny would give him some small reprieve. I guess I'm more demanding. Seeing Vinny's head roll wouldn't "do it" for me. If Snyder announced Vinny got the boot today, what gives you faith that he'd make the right choice in replacing him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Funny, I think you can trace the demise of the franchise directly to JKC: 1. He chose not to leave the Redskins to his son...he chose for it to go to the highest bidder. 2. FedEx is his baby-- fans hate the stadium, and it's 100% on JKC--people act like Snyder built it. 3. JKC adored Norv...that was his hire and it turned out to be a disaster. He also stuck with Casserly who was a dreadful GM. Without Gibbs in town, JKC didn't look too smart. Cooke did one thing that Snyder refuses to do. Hire a team of competent football heads. Fed Ex was a ****hole right from the get go and I can't place that blame on Snyder, but he has done NOTHING to enhance the gameday experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I guess I'm more demanding. Seeing Vinny's head roll wouldn't "do it" for me. If Snyder announced Vinny got the boot today, what gives you faith that he'd make the right choice in replacing him? You can never be sure, even if the choice looks like a sound one. But on things is for sure. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 judging by the contracts before Gibbs came back, and after. I think Vinny and Dan probably put a power play on a lot of times. "Don't worry, you coach.....we'll take care of the numbers". Deion and Bruce before. Double Arch and Lloyd during. Haynesworth after. What's changed? What is the constant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 A semi-humorous, but totally legit question for all of you: Here's the scenerio: The fans all band together with pitchforks and torches and storm Danny's luxury box on Sunday. Let's say Danny is scared straight and he looks down at the mob and asks what we want in order to go away. Fans reply: We want Vinny! We want Vinny! Scared, Danny gives in and tosses Vinny over the railing into the mob....Vinny is immediately torn to shreds by the fans, never to be heard from again. Now, what happens? Snyder is in the box all by himself. It is 100% on him to decide what to do next. Let's say he asks the mob what he should do: Do you think the mob would all agree? I think some would want Gruden, others Shannahan, others Cowher....some may want a GM/coach combo, others may want the next Theo Epstein.... who does Dan listen to? At the end of the day, no matter what any of us say or do, Dan Snyder has to make the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I guess I'm more demanding. Seeing Vinny's head roll wouldn't "do it" for me. If Snyder announced Vinny got the boot today, what gives you faith that he'd make the right choice in replacing him? Hence why I said "small" reprieve. There's no telling whether a new GM would fix the problems, but what has sticking with Vinny done for this team except a sub .500 record? It wouldn't be change for changes sake. It would hopefully be the first step in returning this once proud franchise back to just that......proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 A semi-humorous, but totally legit question for all of you: Here's the scenerio: The fans all band together with pitchforks and torches and storm Danny's luxury box on Sunday. Let's say Danny is scared straight and he looks down at the mob and asks what we want in order to go away. Fans reply: We want Vinny! We want Vinny! Scared, Danny gives in and tosses Vinny over the railing into the mob....Vinny is immediately torn to shreds by the fans, never to be heard from again. Now, what happens? Snyder is in the box all by himself. It is 100% on him to decide what to do next. Let's say he asks the mob what he should do: Do you think the mob would all agree? I think some would want Gruden, others Shannahan, others Cowher....some may want a GM/coach combo, others may want the next Theo Epstein.... who does Dan listen to? At the end of the day, no matter what any of us say or do, Dan Snyder has to make the decision. He needs to listen to his gut...and then do the opposite. Meaning......picking up the phone and calling good owners like the Rooney's and Kraft. Ask them for advice. The owners are a fraternity. Its time to be like the good ones, and not the flashy bad ones. Hire a Team President.....and then step back. Let the President get you a good GM. Let that President and GM get you a Coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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