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The Only Thing Dumber Than the Redskins FO? The "Fan Revolt" Reaction...


kleese

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judging by the contracts before Gibbs came back, and after. I think Vinny and Dan probably put a power play on a lot of times. "Don't worry, you coach.....we'll take care of the numbers".

Deion and Bruce before. Double Arch and Lloyd during. Haynesworth after. What's changed? What is the constant?

The constant, of course, is Snyder. Which is why I think the whole revolt thing is a waste of time. Unless they convince him to sell the team, he's ultimately going to be calling the shots. Even if you get him to fire Vinny-- are you confident he'll make the right choice?

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OK, let's examine "changes."

What exactly will constitute satisfactory change? Are the revolting fans drafting some sort of document for Snyder to sign that outlines what will make them happy?

Is it as simple as firing Vinny?

In 2004, Snyder hired a man to run the entire show and Snyder took a backseat....do you want him to do that again? Do you want a young personell guy from another organization? A proven GM? A GM/coach combo?

What if Snyder hires a GM and he stinks. What if the new GM drafts a WR over an OL next year? Do we revolt again?

It's all just so unclear. The fans act like there is some magic solution out there that Snyder is choosing to ignore.

The "changes" are getting rid of the status quo. Snyder needs to stay out of player decisions get a strong GM and coach who are proven winners and give them each at least three years. No one can look into the future and see what is going to happen, but you can improve your odds of being a contender by putting people in place that have built successful teams in the past. So yes, there is no "magic solution," but there is certainly a way to remain at the bottom of the NFC East and that is by a continuation of what we have been doing. Getting football people in the organization will improve our chances and can you say that Vinny and Snydy are "football people?" I would say that Vinny is an HR guy and Snydy is a businessman, thus, get "football people." Staying with the things that obviously do not work only makes the Skins that much weaker of a franchise. I love this team, but things have got to change. If the owner won't do it on his own then it is up to us to at least try to get something done. All I am saying is that you can't build a house by sitting on your hands, and the Skins fans are the ones that built this house. So yes, get a new GM and coach and give them a shot. Heck, it could not be worse then winning only two games when all your games are against winless teams!

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He needs to listen to his gut...and then do the opposite.

Meaning......picking up the phone and calling good owners like the Rooney's and Kraft. Ask them for advice. The owners are a fraternity. Its time to be like the good ones, and not the flashy bad ones.

Hire a Team President.....and then step back. Let the President get you a good GM. Let that President and GM get you a Coach.

I guess you (and others) have more faith in Snyder than I do. I just don't see how a man that has made billions doing things a certain way is all of a sudden going to change his entire mode of operations because some of his customers walk out on him.

Snyder isn't afraid to make changes...we've seen him do it over and over and over again. He's simply misguided...but he's the guide. Even if he hires a President, Snyder is the one doing the hiring.

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Funny, I think you can trace the demise of the franchise directly to JKC:

1. He chose not to leave the Redskins to his son...he chose for it to go to the highest bidder.

2. FedEx is his baby-- fans hate the stadium, and it's 100% on JKC--people act like Snyder built it.

3. JKC adored Norv...that was his hire and it turned out to be a disaster. He also stuck with Casserly who was a dreadful GM.

Without Gibbs in town, JKC didn't look too smart.

That's a pretty flimsy thesis.

Who BROUGHT Gibbs to town? Who BROUGHT Bobby Beatherd to town?

Jack Kent Cooke was far from perfect, and with the benefit of hindsight, there's no doubt his long-standing faith in Norv was ill-placed.

But the thing about Cooke is, he KNEW how to run a team: hire the right people, be loyal to them, and let them do what they've been trained to do. He did it with the LA Lakers, where they went to 7 NBA Finals and won it all in '72. And of course the three SB trophies for the Redskins. He knew what he was doing. And he also knew what he COULDN'T do, i.e. pick players, evaluate talent, etc., etc.

As for Turner, everyone in the football world thought he would be a great hire, so I don't fault him for that failing. I would fault him for sticking with Norv a bit too long, but by the time Norv was really starting to nosedive in 1997, Cooke was in seriously bad health.

I certainly wish he HAD left the team to his son, as we all do, although I don't think John was EVER as passionate about the team and running a sports franchise as his father was. He must've had his reasons.

So yeah, he left a door open there that Snyder was able to scurry into. But Cooke can't be blamed for that.

As for FedEx Field, yeah, it sucks, and yeah, Cooke had it built. But don't forget, he originally wanted a stadium downtown but the morons who ran the D.C. government at the time thwarted his efforts at every turn. Building FedEx Field where he built it was almost a last resort.

And besides, it's the GAMEDAY EXPERIENCE that is so miserable there more than the stadium itself, and that is SOLELY attributable to Snyder and his pathetic product.

All I know is, without Jack Kent Cooke, there would've never been ONE SB trophy in that case out at Redskins Park, let alone three.

So I say again .. someone get that chant going Sunday...

"JACK KENT COOKE. JACK KENT COOKE."

Maybe he'll rise from his grave zombie style and solve all of our problems by feasting on a big brain buffet in the owners box.

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I, for one, agree 100% with the OP. I think fan boycotts and the like are just going a tad overboard for what is, in the end, just a game. I get as upset at the BS, and I think Snyder sucks, but I'm not willing to try to make some social cause out of it. I'll just say "Ah well, the Redskins suck", and move on with the rest of my life. After all, in the big scheme of things, its a freaking game, and I still have fun on Sundays, win or lose. I'll love the day they're a winning, relevant, team again, but I'm not going to pretend this is the Jim Crow south in the 1950's. It's a football team. I'm a fan, not a revolutionary. If I could afford season tickets, I'd probably buy them...

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The "changes" are getting rid of the status quo. Snyder needs to stay out of player decisions get a strong GM and coach who are proven winners and give them each at least three years. No one can look into the future and see what is going to happen, but you can improve your odds of being a contender by putting people in place that have built successful teams in the past. So yes, there is no "magic solution," but there is certainly a way to remain at the bottom of the NFC East and that is by a continuation of what we have been doing. Getting football people in the organization will improve our chances and can you say that Vinny and Snydy are "football people?" I would say that Vinny is an HR guy and Snydy is a businessman, thus, get "football people." Staying with the things that obviously do not work only makes the Skins that much weaker of a franchise. I love this team, but things have got to change. If the owner won't do it on his own then it is up to us to at least try to get something done. All I am saying is that you can't build a house by sitting on your hands, and the Skins fans are the ones that built this house. So yes, get a new GM and coach and give them a shot. Heck, it could not be worse then winning only two games when all your games are against winless teams!

He already did that. He gave Gibbs total control and stepped aside for four years...and then begged Gibbs to stay after 2007.

I think Snyder was desperate following Spurrier and he thought Gibbs would get him off the hook...in a way it worked because the fans were happy and the on-field results were at least decent-- now, he's right back where he was.

Let's face it, the fanbase was IN LOVE with Snyder for bringing Gibbs back--even if he did the same thing again, the results may be the same.

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He needs to listen to his gut...and then do the opposite.

Meaning......picking up the phone and calling good owners like the Rooney's and Kraft. Ask them for advice. The owners are a fraternity. Its time to be like the good ones, and not the flashy bad ones.

Hire a Team President.....and then step back. Let the President get you a good GM. Let that President and GM get you a Coach.

This is exactly what he needs to do. He needs to let football people handle the football side. He can still handle the business side of the team since that is what he is good at. But we need a President and GM to come in and run things their way, not Snyder's.

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I think you nailed the coffin close, Kkeese. Snyder is not the problem here. The problems come from the demands of a fan base expecting too much too soon from this club. We have issues with some depth and the other issue is a rookie coach (one year removed) who gambles at the wrong time.

But Zorn is not the problem either. The problem is not having a play caller other than Zorn is the hard of the issue, as I see it. You can always replace a play caller without disturbing the comradeship of the team's makeup. And blaming Vinny is not the problem either (I know you think I am out of my knot) but think about it, if the Skins wanted Zorn to fail then they would do nothing and let Zorn fall in the abyss of so, so promising coaches.

I really think this team needs a play caller who is a little more tempered to play the odds of running certain plays at a given juncture within the scheme of things. You can not over extend your defense by calling a bone headed gamble or a questionable play that has no chance of making a first down. Or run parallel to the line of scrimmage in your end-zone.

At this point, the play calling does not necessarily attack a teams weaknesses. The schemes are centered around getting everyone involved. Calling plays for the sake of calling plays.

Beating up on Snyder, Vinny, Zorn, Blache or whomever will not progress this team to the next level. Dan the man is not going anywhere unless Dan wants to. Those that write stories about the fans displeasure with the Skins are aware of impatience and they are loving it watching us jump out of our shorts citing this and that as the cause of our failures. We are an embarrassing 2-3 team and should have won more than we have lost.

Bring in a play caller that I can love or hate, keep him or fire him is the right way to correct things. Smart head coaches appoint a play caller to cushion himself from the rocks and boulders falling around him when things are not going the right way.

The defense as a whole is not that bad with the exception of trying to make Orakpo a LBer. We need pressure not an experiment in futility. Put Wilson on the field as the SAM LBer. Take Landry out as a FS and let him play close to the line of scrimmage. Replace Landry with Tryon and Moore. As long we have 11 men on the field at all times, thus, eliminating some of these defensive packages.

We definitely need to concentrate on drafting offensive linemen in 2010.

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Guess what: people are quitting it forever. I think we've lost more fans under Snyder than we've gained. Of course I have no proof but it sure seems like it.

Trade FedEx Field to Jacksonville for all of their 2010 and 2011 picks. They get the whole stadium.

We take our shrunken fan base back to RFK and make those stands rock again.

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He already did that. He gave Gibbs total control and stepped aside for four years...and then begged Gibbs to stay after 2007.

I think Snyder was desperate following Spurrier and he thought Gibbs would get him off the hook...in a way it worked because the fans were happy and the on-field results were at least decent-- now, he's right back where he was.

Let's face it, the fanbase was IN LOVE with Snyder for bringing Gibbs back--even if he did the same thing again, the results may be the same.

Except that's not true. Gibbs was happy to share the front office with Snyder and Vinny. Remember....a redskins decision, or a redskins grade? Whatever it was called.

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See, here's the deal. While I totally agree that Vinny is a bad GM, he's only technically been the GM since the end of the 2007 season... Gibbs was the GM the previous 4 years.

So, from January of 2008 until today, Vinny has called the shots. While I don't like the shots he's called, I'm also not sure his decisions have been so bad that it would constitute a fan revolt.

I think the fans need to decide exactly what they want Snyder to do...is firing Vinny all he needs to do?

All the fans are asking for is accountability and to know that the owner who has never touched a football team, aside from Tecmo Super Bowl, doesn't have his hand in the daily operations of the team. Even George Michael said that Dan decides on the major player acquisitions and Vinny gets all the "no-name" players. Does that sound like a functional system?

All we want is to know that the team has a plan, is moving forward with the plan, and makes the proper moves to ensure the most success for the team longterm. Right now we seem to be a rudderless ship that is forever circling the drain.

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I think you nailed the coffin close, Kkeese. Snyder is not the problem here. The problems come from the demands of a fan base expecting too much too soon from this club. We have issues with some depth and the other issue is a rookie coach (one year removed) who gambles at the wrong time.

But Zorn is not the problem either. The problem is not having a play caller other than Zorn is the hard of the issue, as I see it. You can always replace a play caller without disturbing the comradeship of the team's makeup. And blaming Vinny is not the problem either (I know you think I am out of my knot) but think about it, if the Skins wanted Zorn to fail then they would do nothing and let Zorn fall in the abyss of so, so promising coaches.

I really think this team needs a play caller who is a little more tempered to play the odds of running certain plays at a given juncture within the scheme of things. You can not over extend your defense by calling a bone headed gamble or a questionable play that has no chance of making a first down. Or run parallel to the line of scrimmage in your end-zone.

At this point, the play calling does not necessarily attack a teams weaknesses. The schemes are centered around getting everyone involved. Calling plays for the sake of calling plays.

Beating up on Snyder, Vinny, Zorn, Blache or whomever will not progress this team to the next level. Dan the man is not going anywhere unless he wants to. Those that write stories about the fans displeasure with the Skins are aware of this and they are loving it watching us bent out of our shorts citing this and that as the cause of our dismiss. We are an embarrassing 2-3 team and should have won more than we have lost.

Bring in a play caller that I can love or hate, keep him or fire him is the right way to correct things. Smart head coaches appoint a play caller to cushion himself from the rocks and boulders falling around him when things are not going the right way.

The defense as a whole is not that bad with the exception of trying to make Orakpo a LBer. We need pressure not an experiment in futility. Put Wilson on the field as the SAM LBer. Take Landry out as a FS and let him play close to the line of scrimmage. Replace Landry with Tryon and Moore. Thus, eliminating some of these defensive packages.

We definitely need to concentrate on drafting offensive linemen in 2010.

Almost everything you stated was the result of Snyder. Why? because he brought a QB coach, turned OC, turned HC at the blink of an eye. With the rumors circulating that he is alreay looking to replace Zorn, you tell me who's lacking patience?

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He already did that. He gave Gibbs total control and stepped aside for four years...and then begged Gibbs to stay after 2007.

I think Snyder was desperate following Spurrier and he thought Gibbs would get him off the hook...in a way it worked because the fans were happy and the on-field results were at least decent-- now, he's right back where he was.

Let's face it, the fanbase was IN LOVE with Snyder for bringing Gibbs back--even if he did the same thing again, the results may be the same.

Snyder did NOT step away during the Gibbs II years. Where do you get that info? He and Vinny were just as much a part of the process as they are now. The problem was, for whatever reason, GIBBS fell under the spell, too, thinking this was the right approach.

Snyder stepped away ONCE during his tenure here, and that was when Marty came onboard and demanded Vinny's firing. Snyder is on record saying he "had no fun" that year, and hence put a stop to a tough, promising team that Marty was building and starting the rollercoaster ride once again.

The fans weren't "in love" with Snyder at all when he hired Gibbs. They just thought he'd made a good decision. What we didn't see at the time was that not even Gibbs' coaching abilities (faded as they were) could overcome the poor FO structure. Or, more importantly, the low level of talent that makes UP that structure.

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The germans didn't do anything either and they became a nazi state, when they had the opportunity to stop the rising of the third reich. Of course the rising of the third reich is larger in scope than the redskins and their fans BUT if you just let Snyder continue to make these odd moves that cause the team to be a laughingstock than you're no worse than the germans (joke)

How the hell does that compare at all? You're talking about a nation of people who in the majority EMBRACED the Nazi party. Though they did of course use intimidation and sneaky tactics to gain seats in the Reichstag, they were democratically elected. The majority of Germans in 1938 would love to identify as Nazis, and furthermore, when it came to many of Hitler's promises for the economy and state of Germany, the Nazis actually delivered on them (before of course catastrophically failing at everything). I've never seen the Redskins deliver on their promises.

I think the example you were looking for would have been to say that other nations, notably those in the league of nations did nothing to stand in the path of Nazi Germany in their expansions into places like Austria and Czechoslovakia, and rather worked on grounds of appeasement as Neville Chamberlain did with his whole "Peace in our time" spiel after negotiation on that bull**** treaty with Hitler.

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The point is to make your voice heard.

In fact, your entire post is completely wrong. Snyder will care if it starts to affect his bottom line - that's the only way this fanbase can force change.

Anyone who writes another check, buys another beer, pays for parking, buys a jersey... is putting yet another signature on the Redskins' death certificate.

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True, because it brought back some of the vestiges of our glory years: hard, smash-mouth football, centered around running the ball to set up the pass. However, the second Gibbs seemed to defer to Snyder. You are right that "the results may be the same" but anything is better than what we put on the field on Sundays now.

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The point is to make your voice heard.

In fact' date=' your entire post is completely wrong. Snyder will care if it starts to affect his bottom line - that's the only way this fanbase can force change.

Anyone who writes another check, buys another beer, pays for parking, buys a jersey... is putting yet another signature on the Redskins' death certificate.[/quote']

Amen! Succinct and to the point. If the redskins franchise starting losing money like Danny boy's other investments (ala six flags), he would hear it loud and clear from his ivory tower and be forced to make fundamental changes.

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What a sad way of seeing the world by the OP. There is nothing we can do about it so we may as well bend over... that's the message here. Do people really see the world this way? How pathetic.

Look no one in this world gives a damn about your opinion unless they are somehow connected to you in a meaningful way. What businesses do care about however is how you spend your money. You think Dan knows the fans are mad? Sure. You think he cares enough to put a pin to that balloon ego of his? No. Want to know what will change that? A sudden drop in income. There is a reason he's selling premium seats with massive long contracts... it's because the writing is on the wall. His act has worn thin and the fans aren't blowing up the ticket office phones like they did when he took over. He's looking for security and banking on the fact he can turn it around before the contracts are up.

He knows the fans are pissed. If you want him to change his behavior however his wallet has to know it too. There is no way to ignore a shift in revenue. You are forced to change something even if it's reducing payroll... something will give because the money isn't there. Then comes the hit to the teams value and the humiliation on a national stage.

Want things to change, stop supporting the team with your cash. Find a neighborhood bar/restaurant that where you can watch the game. Support the business you like while enjoying your team. Don't buy hats or team merchandise. Don't go to the game and let season ticket holders sell their tickets at 20% of their value so they refuse to renew.

Dan Snyder is a plague on this fan base and it's time he feels some of the pain he's inflicted.

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What a sad way of seeing the world by the OP. There is nothing we can do about it so we may as well bend over... that's the message here. Do people really see the world this way? How pathetic.

Look no one in this world gives a damn about your opinion unless they are somehow connected to you in a meaningful way. What businesses do care about however is how you spend your money. You think Dan knows the fans are mad? Sure. You think he cares enough to put a pin to that balloon ego of his? No. Want to know what will change that? A sudden drop in income. There is a reason he's selling premium seats with massive long contracts... it's because the writing is on the wall. His act has worn thin and the fans aren't blowing up the ticket office phones like they did when he took over. He's looking for security and banking on the fact he can turn it around before the contracts are up.

He knows the fans are pissed. If you want him to change his behavior however his wallet has to know it too. There is no way to ignore a shift in revenue. You are forced to change something even if it's reducing payroll... something will give because the money isn't there. Then comes the hit to the teams value and the humiliation on a national stage.

Want things to change, stop supporting the team with your cash. Find a neighborhood bar/restaurant that where you can watch the game. Support the business you like while enjoying your team. Don't buy hats or team merchandise. Don't go to the game and let season ticket holders sell their tickets at 20% of their value so they refuse to renew.

Dan Snyder is a plague on this fan base and it's time he feels some of the pain he's inflicted.

:applause::applause:

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What a sad way of seeing the world by the OP. There is nothing we can do about it so we may as well bend over... that's the message here. Do people really see the world this way? How pathetic.

Look no one in this world gives a damn about your opinion unless they are somehow connected to you in a meaningful way. What businesses do care about however is how you spend your money. You think Dan knows the fans are mad? Sure. You think he cares enough to put a pin to that balloon ego of his? No. Want to know what will change that? A sudden drop in income. There is a reason he's selling premium seats with massive long contracts... it's because the writing is on the wall. His act has worn thin and the fans aren't blowing up the ticket office phones like they did when he took over. He's looking for security and banking on the fact he can turn it around before the contracts are up.

He knows the fans are pissed. If you want him to change his behavior however his wallet has to know it too. There is no way to ignore a shift in revenue. You are forced to change something even if it's reducing payroll... something will give because the money isn't there. Then comes the hit to the teams value and the humiliation on a national stage.

Want things to change, stop supporting the team with your cash. Find a neighborhood bar/restaurant that where you can watch the game. Support the business you like while enjoying your team. Don't buy hats or team merchandise. Don't go to the game and let season ticket holders sell their tickets at 20% of their value so they refuse to renew.

Dan Snyder is a plague on this fan base and it's time he feels some of the pain he's inflicted.

Awesome sig and yet another awesome post from Destino. Great post!

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What a sad way of seeing the world by the OP. There is nothing we can do about it so we may as well bend over... that's the message here. Do people really see the world this way? How pathetic.

Look no one in this world gives a damn about your opinion unless they are somehow connected to you in a meaningful way. What businesses do care about however is how you spend your money. You think Dan knows the fans are mad? Sure. You think he cares enough to put a pin to that balloon ego of his? No. Want to know what will change that? A sudden drop in income. There is a reason he's selling premium seats with massive long contracts... it's because the writing is on the wall. His act has worn thin and the fans aren't blowing up the ticket office phones like they did when he took over. He's looking for security and banking on the fact he can turn it around before the contracts are up.

He knows the fans are pissed. If you want him to change his behavior however his wallet has to know it too. There is no way to ignore a shift in revenue. You are forced to change something even if it's reducing payroll... something will give because the money isn't there. Then comes the hit to the teams value and the humiliation on a national stage.

Want things to change, stop supporting the team with your cash. Find a neighborhood bar/restaurant that where you can watch the game. Support the business you like while enjoying your team. Don't buy hats or team merchandise. Don't go to the game and let season ticket holders sell their tickets at 20% of their value so they refuse to renew.

Dan Snyder is a plague on this fan base and it's time he feels some of the pain he's inflicted.

I continue to believe that you give the fans way too much power in this situation to exact change.

The NFL has revenue sharing, unlike many other leagues. Every time someone buys a Green Bay Packers hat or a Miami Dolphins jersey, Dan Snyder benefits.

I think Dan Snyder is at a finanical level personally that makes him fairly "untouchable" from really being hit in the wallet-- especially with the way the NFL ownership and revenue system works.

You take all of his companies, assests, investments, etc.. and I guarantee you that ticket sales and concessions have an incredibly small impact on his overall big financial picture.

And please don't insinuate that I lead my life in the same manner that I view this situation.

The Redskins are a private organization. It's not government policy or something that is going to affect my children's education. Ultimately, the Redskins are owned by Snyder and it is his fundamental right to do what he wants. It is my fundamental right as a consumer to choose not to invest time, money, or emotion into his company.

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Will do... already have plans to reach out to the bigger tailgates... we will need their assistance for what we have planned...

Whatever it is that you have planned, Pez, please let me know. I am on board and in the same boat as you. I want to contribute. I want my voice to be heard. While I tend to disagree with Kleese on his point...he has much respect by me...and I've never met the man!

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I think you nailed the coffin close, Kkeese. Snyder is not the problem here. The problems come from the demands of a fan base expecting too much too soon from this club. We have issues with some depth and the other issue is a rookie coach (one year removed) who gambles at the wrong time.

.

Thanks, but I think you missed my point. Snyder IS the problem-- I just don't think the revolts will do much to solve it.

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You take all of his companies, assests, investments, etc.. and I guarantee you that ticket sales and concessions have an incredibly small impact on his overall big financial picture.

Anybody have any real info on this?? From what I've read, Snyder sold the one valuable asset he had during the tech boom. Since then the only investment I've heard he made that hasn't tanked is the Redskins. Does he have any highly profitable ventures other than the skins?

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What a sad way of seeing the world by the OP. There is nothing we can do about it so we may as well bend over... that's the message here. Do people really see the world this way? How pathetic.

Look no one in this world gives a damn about your opinion unless they are somehow connected to you in a meaningful way. What businesses do care about however is how you spend your money. You think Dan knows the fans are mad? Sure. You think he cares enough to put a pin to that balloon ego of his? No. Want to know what will change that? A sudden drop in income. There is a reason he's selling premium seats with massive long contracts... it's because the writing is on the wall. His act has worn thin and the fans aren't blowing up the ticket office phones like they did when he took over. He's looking for security and banking on the fact he can turn it around before the contracts are up.

He knows the fans are pissed. If you want him to change his behavior however his wallet has to know it too. There is no way to ignore a shift in revenue. You are forced to change something even if it's reducing payroll... something will give because the money isn't there. Then comes the hit to the teams value and the humiliation on a national stage.

Want things to change, stop supporting the team with your cash. Find a neighborhood bar/restaurant that where you can watch the game. Support the business you like while enjoying your team. Don't buy hats or team merchandise. Don't go to the game and let season ticket holders sell their tickets at 20% of their value so they refuse to renew.

Dan Snyder is a plague on this fan base and it's time he feels some of the pain he's inflicted.

Perfect.

Had an opportunity to go to the game this Sunday but I don't want to. I don't want to pay money for a parking pass, I don't want to pay money for a ticket, I don't want to spend money on beer or anything in the stadium.

I just want to sit on my ass in front of a TV with a big bag of Burger King and not given Snyder any money.

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