kleese Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It's a sad state around the Washington Redskins. A sad state indeed. It's sad from the top on down. It has trickled to the fans as well. Fan "revolts" don't work. Empty seats at the stadium don't even necessarily work. It is an exercise in futlity...if it makes you feel better, then go for it, but it's all sound and fury, signifying nothing-- much like our off-seasons. --Like many of you, I've been a die-hard fan since birth. Live and die each week with the results of our games, etc... My friends and family associate me directly with the Redskins. It's the same story for most of you. --And like many of you, I've been beatdown, frustrated, angry, and even resentful for many, many years now. --And like many of you, I've wondered if I'm somehow contributed to the demise and/or if there is something I can do about it. My conclusion? I can't do a dang thing to change our fortunes and neither can you. It's not like Dan Snyder thinks the fans love what he's doing and will only get the message we're upset if we walk out, boo, don't show, etc.. He knows it already. It would be one thing if the fans thought that Snyder was cheap and unwilling to spend money in order to improve the team. If THAT was the case, then maybe I could see how some reactionary stuff might have an effect. But clearly, that is not the case. The fans all want different things... Some want a new GM Some want a new coach Some want a new QB Some want cheaper parking Some want a better video board Some want better draft picks People act like if we scream loud enough, Snyder will get the message and "fix" the problems. Well, it ain't that easy. Spending money clearly isn't the answer. And finding one man and giving him full control apparantly isn't the answer either....he did that with Gibbs and we're right back where we were before. If "fxing" a culture of losing in pro sports was as simple as firing one guy and hiring a new guy, then no team would ever be bad. Also, history is NOT on your side revolters....... The Pittsburgh Pirates have had 17 straight losing seasons-- a pro sports record. Their fans have boycotted, picketed, screamed, and eventually, just stopped going. They still stink-- nothing has changed. The Arizona Cardinals were a joke for 50 years-- their fans moaned about the Bidwell family for all of those years-- nothing changed- they just eventually made a few right moves and finally won something. Am I saying you have to sit there and take whatever the Redskins give you? Well, sort of. If you're like me-- you are hopeless-- a friend of mine describes it like being in an abusive relationship you know you can't get out of. But the bottom line is that at the end of the day, I STILL love Sundays. I still love my routines, love the cameradrie of friends and family, love the food, love wearing my Skins stuff, and hoping against hope each week that they'll win and get going in the right direction. It's still easier to sleep at night when they win and Mondays are tougher when they lose-- regardless of the fact that my expectation level has dwindled to nothing. If it really isn't fun for you at all anymore, then by all means, you should stop buying tickets, watching them on TV, buying merchandise, etc... if you get no enjoyment from it, then you should stop. I guess, for me, even though it's like a kick in the crotch, I still enjoy it more than not following or watching. I'd still rather watch the Skins-Chiefs this Sunday than go to the park or the movies. I think what many fans need to "get over" is this notion that somehow you are "supporting" or "enabling" Snyder by your support of the team. Here's how I look at it: I am a fan of the Washington Redskins. The fandom of the organization as a whole goes well beyond any player, coach, or owner. The Redskins as an institution are something I love much more than I hate Snyder. Dan Snyder is a bazillionaire. As much as it may pain you to hear it, there's nothing we fans are going to do to change that. The Redskins are the second most profitable team in pro sports-- even if you cut the gate sales and merch sales in half, it wouldn't really dent Snyder's overall worth. Snyder is clearly embarrassed and angry. He's obviously also stubborn as heck on what he needs to do to change things. Maybe he'll never give in--- but don't sit there and think that he's clueless as to what's going on and his perception with the fans. He KNOWS you hate him. He KNOWS the media finds the Redskins to be a laughingstock. I guess to me, the "fiinal blow" for me as a fan from Snyder would be if I allowed him to take away the Redskins from myself.....I'm not gonna let that happen. Having said all this, I'd like to state that I personally have no issue with the revolts, paper bags, booing, etc... it's a free country and you can do what you want. If it helps you to cope, then go for it. But please stop telling me about what the fans "need to do" in order to demand change. This is your reality Redskins fans. You have no control over it. Either accept it and hope for the best or quit it forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 un huh, "MooOOOOOOOOOOOOOON RIVerrrrrrrr" Like that? Don't see it happening honestly. We may not be able to "do" anything by objecting to the TheDan and his piece-by-piece destruction of the franchise, but doin nothin'is definitely worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I don't agree with this... Many of you know me, and know that I can be plain homerish... I have had enough... and I plan on making my voice as well as others heard... I am not calling for Snyder's head, because I know he will not sell the team, and I don't expect him to.. I can however plead for a change in the organization... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunBunch7 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I like the post by the OP. The most importnat thing you said was referring to Snyder being more than willing to spend money...this is WHY I like Daniel Snyder. Danny is young and probably has a great deal of pride...it's that very pride that I htink will one day bring a Title to this team...but in the mean time, I htink calling for his head is way out of line. We have been "soooo" close a couple of times...1999, a botched snap away form the NFCC game...2005...2007...yeah the wheels may be falling off right now, but this ship CAN get righted... In the mean time, I will be cheering for our boys vs the Chiefs and hope they can pull a miracle vs Philly (we DID sweep them last year). When we DO hoist the Lombardi Trophy, it'll make all the more sweet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The germans didn't do anything either and they became a nazi state, when they had the opportunity to stop the rising of the third reich. Of course the rising of the third reich is larger in scope than the redskins and their fans BUT if you just let Snyder continue to make these odd moves that cause the team to be a laughingstock than you're no worse than the germans (joke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Wow, Kleese coming over here to tell people what to think....again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseBowlrz Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have had enough... and I plan on making my voice as well as others heard... I think someone already said it in another thread ... but when Pez has had enough, you KNOW something big is on the horizon. To the OP ... it did work in Detroit with regard to Matt Millen. It certainly can't hurt to try. Pez ... if this involves the large tailgates starting something, let me know and I will get word to my group. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think some sort of fan revolt can work. Hell it worked when Orioles' fans walked out of a game. Peter Angelos got the message and brought in a real GM and now the O's appear to be on the right track. I don't think anyone faults Snyder for not trying and not going out and spending money. Its just that he goes about it the wrong way. We know it and it everyone else that knows football knows it. The problem is that it doesn't seem like he is willing to change. And we as fans have the right to show our displeasure one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 You people that think Daniel Snyder's grasp over our once beloved franchise is going to falter by the fans continuing to feed his money machine are high. There is only one thing Daniel Snyder listens to and that is money. Daniel Snyder is the Al Davis of the East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think someone already said it in another thread ... but when Pez has had enough, you KNOW something big is on the horizon.To the OP ... it did work in Detroit with regard to Matt Millen. It certainly can't hurt to try. Pez ... if this involves the large tailgates starting something, let me know and I will get word to my group. thanks Will do... already have plans to reach out to the bigger tailgates... we will need their assistance for what we have planned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmast000 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have to disagree with the original poster. By not spending money it sends a very loud message to the owner. Also any negative pub that gets out to the national media also sends a clear message to the owner. There is a reason they confiscated those bags! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Snyder couldn't give a **** less about the fans. He "knows" everyone will go out and buy the latest swag, jerseys and etcetera to help him pay the bills. If people stop doing that, he may notice. He thinks the fans will keep returning for his **** sandwiches, all the while telling him how good they are and charging $10 extra to toast the bread. My hope is that it gets so bad for him, one of his checks to Haynesworth bounces and Fat Albert sits on the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 This is your reality Redskins fans. You have no control over it. Either accept it and hope for the best or quit it forever. Eloquent speech, Kleese. However- it's your reality if it's your perception, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well Kleese, wasn't this a little hypocritical on your behalf?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAFGA Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 This is your reality Redskins fans. You have no control over it. Either accept it and hope for the best or quit it forever. Guess what: people are quitting it forever. I think we've lost more fans under Snyder than we've gained. Of course I have no proof but it sure seems like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prufRock Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I disagree. I think declining attendance and revenues will send a very clear signal to Dan Snyder and I think the message will be heard for two reasons: 1) To say that he is currently aware of the fan discontent is not necessarily true. I think he's surrounded by sycophants and I think he views Message Boards and Sports Talk radio as just a lot of noise and not a scientific indication of where the fans truly are. I think attendance is a more hard and fast indicator to him. People vote with their wallets. They always have, and always will. As long as people are showing up and buying beer on Sundays, he can dismiss all the fan chatter as drunken venting. That's how a businessman's mind works. 2) The difference between the Redskins and the Pirates or Cardinals is the history of strong support from the fan base. If people quit going to the games, he would have to look at the history of Washington's support of the Redskins and conclude that it went bad on HIS WATCH. It's not like D.C. has never supported his team. If he got the message through decreased revenues, it would force him to re-evaluate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Maybe we'll put the season ticket waiting list to a test. I can tell you this. If Vinny is part of the Org when it comes time to pay next year.....I'll be opting out. Won't think twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I don't agree with this... Many of you know me, and know that I can be plain homerish...I have had enough... and I plan on making my voice as well as others heard... I am not calling for Snyder's head, because I know he will not sell the team, and I don't expect him to.. I can however plead for a change in the organization... Right there with you, Pez. I'm tired of being hogtied and assraped by this team year in and year out. My money is worth more, I work too hard for it. I'm going to do what I can to make it known how I feel about it and I KNOW there are a crap ton of fans that feel exactly the way I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I don't agree with this... Many of you know me, and know that I can be plain homerish...I have had enough... and I plan on making my voice as well as others heard... I am not calling for Snyder's head, because I know he will not sell the team, and I don't expect him to.. I can however plead for a change in the organization... Holy ****! Hell has frozen over. The Lions fans sure did a helluva job in voicing their displeasure with Millen and eventually he was fired. I believe they were of influence in Ford's decision to finally fire him. It's a different day and age. I believe that fans have more of an influence then you think. Some fanbases aren't as passionate as ours and we demand excellence. Our threshold has snapped and it's only going to get louder because we've only played five games and it's already loud as ****. So like others. I respectfully, completely disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 John Junior Feinstein's latest idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have not decided what if anything I would do. I am always the optimist but I will say I do not see a light at the end of the tunnel. I do not know if any of this would do any good nor have I decided if I could ever participate in something like this. I am using this thread to help form a rational opinion so please post both aspects. I would like to see a good debate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 1) To say that he is currently aware of the fan discontent is not necessarily true. I think he's surrounded by sycophants and I think he views Message Boards and Sports Talk radio as just a lot of noise and not a scientific indication of where the fans truly are. More than just that, George Michael actually said Dan Snyder honestly wonders why the fans hate him so much. I know it may be beneath him to associate with us, but the guy must be on Pluto if he really does wonder why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 John Junior Feinstein's latest idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmast000 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 More than just that, George Michael actually said Dan Snyder honestly wonders why the fans hate him so much. I know it may be beneath him to associate with us, but the guy must be on Pluto if he really does wonder why. Gearoge Michael did say that Dan was kind of clueless as to why fans don't like him. And this is coming from a good friend of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have not decided what if anything I would do. I am always the optimist but I will say I do not see a light at the end of the tunnel. I do not know if any of this would do any good nor have I decided if I could ever participate in something like this. I am using this thread to help form a rational opinion so please post both aspects. I would like to see a good debate here. You won't get much real debate, considering 90% of this site (at least) is probably the proverbial choir... This morning, I was talking to the Iron Mountain delivery driver when it occurred to me. I'm 36 years old. Dan Snyder isn't much older and is relatively healthy. That means the bulk of the remainder of my years will be spend with him as owner, barring some financial catastrophe of his. Created too much perspective, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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