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The Only Thing Dumber Than the Redskins FO? The "Fan Revolt" Reaction...


kleese

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Zoony - great links and great info. Thanks for sharing.

Starting RIGHT NOW

--Do not attend another Redskin game this year

--Do not watch another Redskin game this year on TV or listen on radio

--Do not visit ES or ANY other Redskin related message board this year

--Do not talk to your friends or coworkers about the Redskins

--Completey and 100% shut yourself out from the Redskins both financially and emotionally.

You want to REALLY send a message--- that's how you do it....who's willing to do it?

Honestly? I'm not.

I suggest a better way is waiting until next January right after we lose to the Chargers. Write a short letter addressed to the team saying you're tired of this bull**** and you're not willing to put up with this dysfunction any longer. Tell them you will not attend the games and will not watch the games on video. Demand the team hire a competent GM. Demand the team's ownership to dissociate itself from influencing the GM in any way. Mail it via USPS (not email) with copy (cc) to the Washington Post.

When the 2010 invoice arrives the following month, mail it back unpaid with a copy of the letter you sent in January.

By waiting until next winter, the fan base has nearly three months to organize this.

If enough fans came together and agreed to this, I'd be willing to join them and stay home for a year.

It wouldn't be pleasant, but you have to do what you have to do.

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Originally Posted by kleese

--Do not visit ES or ANY other Redskin related message board this year

Honestly? I'm not.

:hysterical:

I dunno about this one, it's not like there are any advertisers sponsoring ads on this page.

Don't laugh Illone. It's actually a great thought/question. One I've actually been wondering about myself of late.

I realize there aren't any ads directly on ES. However I strongly suspect he's getting higher ad rates elsewhere on the site by virtue of ES's large membership driving more page views of the pages that do have ads. So for example, I'm sure ES has helped Snyder get more ad revenue from ESPN980 by virtue of this site bringing more listeners, both online and otherwise.

Could any of the Mods please let us know if Snyder is in some way getting indirect revenue from ES by virtue of its connection with Redskins.com?

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Another link

http://thesportsbizblog.blogspot.com/2005/08/new-nfl-revenue-sharing-may-harm-la.html

So, what have we learned?

Dan Snyder pockets DIRECTLY revenue from parking, 2/3 of ticket sales, ALL CONCESSIONS AT HOME GAMES, ALL MERCHANDISE SALES AT HOME GAMES, local radio, preseason TV deals, lusury suites, stadium naming rights, and sponsorships.

Oh, and think FedEx wants to keep their name in lights over top of an empty stadium?

Yah, I think its safe to say that a boycott hurts. Despite what kleese thinks :)

I never argued that ticket sales and parking didn't affect Snyder---I'm still not clear on the merch sales. Everything I've found says that 100% of officially licensed NFL merch sales are split evenly---maybe it's different inside the stadium, but are you sure you are talking about official licensed products?

And even if that's true, I'd say gameday sales account for a very small overall percentage of merch sales.

As far as teams moving cities, you could not be more wrong. Very rarely, if ever, have teams moved due to lack of fan support. It's usually based around a stadium and/or an overall dying local economy.

The NHL lost teams in places like Winnepeg in favor of Phoenix. You telling me the folks in the desert care more about the NHL than people in Canada?

The Browns moved because Art Modell couldn't get the city to build him a new stadium--- he needed a new stadium so he could get that portion of cash that owners get to keep from luxury boxes, etc.

Two cases I can think of where local support may have helped push a team out? Vancouver Grizzlies and Houston Oilers--- although again, with the Oilers, it was mainly because Bud Adams couldn't get the city to pony up for a new stadium.

And I actually do agree with you and others that if no one bought tickets or paid attention that it would eventually trickle down to hurt Danny-- the whole point of this thread is that I don't think the organized "walk outs" and like do any good.

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:hysterical:

I dunno about this one, it's not like there are any advertisers sponsoring ads on this page.

Not even my point really though. I believe that as long as people are talking about the Redskins (even if they are screaming and shouting and organizing boycotts) that it keeps the Redskins somewhat relevant-- it shows that deep down the fans really care.

I think the best message that could be sent is one of total and complete apathy...no spending, no discussing, no watching, nothing.

I truly think if you want to "send a message" to Snyder, the best way to do it is to 100% completely eliminate the Redskins from your life. Literally.

You willing to do that?

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Another aspect of this whole thing I've been meaning to bring up:

The casual fan.

People that post at ES are generally die-hards. We're the people that live and die with the Skins and currently have a pit in our stomachs due to the state of the team.

But there are not 80,000 of us at each game....I'd say we represent well less than half that number.

Lots of people don't really care...they'll go to a game or two during the year, maybe catch some on TV, or read up a bit in the paper or online. They'll go because their kids want to go to an NFL game, etc... the high prices and such don't bother them because they only plan on doing it once a year or so anyway.

And once again, I'll ask a question that has really yet to be answered in this thread:

Let's say the message is received. Let's say the boycotts get Danny's attention and he decides that he needs to do something.

What does he need to do to placate the boycotters?

Everyone keeps saying he needs to "back off" day to day operations. Well, how do we know that is going to happen?

He's had two GM's now (Gibbs/Vinny) and people still say that Danny is calling the shots. If he hires a new guy and then the new guy drafts a WR in the 1st round, don't you think people will assume that Danny is still active? How in the world will he be able to prove to you that he isn't involved behind closed doors?

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Yes, it is all you can do as a fan-- and it's your right to do it...and if it makes you feel better and helps you release tension, anger, etc. then I would encourage you to do it.

Anyone who reads this thread and thinks I'm "defending" Snyder isn't really reading it or needs a reading comprehension class.

ALL I'm saying is that in my opinion, those kinds of organized revolts and such don't actually help....they don't bother me, I just don't think they work.

Look at it like this: If you stage a walk-out or protest at the stadium, you are still THERE-- you paid to get in park, etc.

To me, total irrelevance is probably the best way to send a message. As long as you are yelling and screaming, even if you are ripping him to shreds, Danny knows you are still passionate and to some extent he still "has you." I think the real message sender would be if people just literally stopped caring.

I actually think Feinstein is right about that...if people simply don't go, don't call radio shows, don't watch them on TV, don't talk about them on the internet, etc. I think that would probably be more painful.

But let's face it...honest question...many of you are willing to organize protests-- but how many of you would be willing to do this:

Starting RIGHT NOW

--Do not attend another Redskin game this year

--Do not watch another Redskin game this year on TV or listen on radio

--Do not visit ES or ANY other Redskin related message board this year

--Do not talk to your friends or coworkers about the Redskins

--Completey and 100% shut yourself out from the Redskins both financially and emotionally.

You want to REALLY send a message--- that's how you do it....who's willing to do it?

Honestly? I'm not.

This is really stupid. Snyder gets his TV money anyway, so what does it matter if anyone watches the games? That doesn't affect his bottom line at all.

And do not talk to your friends and co-workers about the Redskins? Is Snyder somehow profiting from conversations in which many many people weigh in on why his product SUCKS and how he has ruined it?

I guess your highly specious point with this is that discussion of the team somehow keeps it "relevant" - but if they only people discussing your team are former fans talking about how much it sucks, that's not really relevant. Trust me, there aren't a lot of water cooler discussions about the Redskins taking place outside the DC metro area, except perhaps the occasional amazement from out of town fans who are just realizing how completely Dan Snyder has destroyed a once proud organization that is now the biggest laughingstock in professional sports.

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I never argued that ticket sales and parking didn't affect Snyder---I'm still not clear on the merch sales. Everything I've found says that 100% of officially licensed NFL merch sales are split evenly---maybe it's different inside the stadium, but are you sure you are talking about official licensed products?

And even if that's true, I'd say gameday sales account for a very small overall percentage of merch sales.

As far as teams moving cities, you could not be more wrong. Very rarely, if ever, have teams moved due to lack of fan support. It's usually based around a stadium and/or an overall dying local economy.

The NHL lost teams in places like Winnepeg in favor of Phoenix. You telling me the folks in the desert care more about the NHL than people in Canada?

The Browns moved because Art Modell couldn't get the city to build him a new stadium--- he needed a new stadium so he could get that portion of cash that owners get to keep from luxury boxes, etc.

Two cases I can think of where local support may have helped push a team out? Vancouver Grizzlies and Houston Oilers--- although again, with the Oilers, it was mainly because Bud Adams couldn't get the city to pony up for a new stadium.

And I actually do agree with you and others that if no one bought tickets or paid attention that it would eventually trickle down to hurt Danny-- the whole point of this thread is that I don't think the organized "walk outs" and like do any good.

It absolutely would kill you to admit you're 100% wrong, wouldn't it? LOL

I've never seen someone be so stubborn in the face of facts. Read the link. There is no "officially licensed products"

but way to glaze over everything else, too.

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It absolutely would kill you to admit you're 100% wrong, wouldn't it? LOL

I've never seen someone be so stubborn in the face of facts. Read the link. There is no "officially licensed products"

but way to glaze over everything else, too.

"There are a lot of other sources for NFL money. NFL licensed jerseys, for example that Randy Moss jersey you put on your kid last Halloween when you dressed him up as a demon, result in license fees going to the NFL. This money is also equally shared."

That is where I got my info...license fees are equally shared.

You may be right about in-stadium sales... I'm not sure.

But you keep skipping over my main point/question.

I'm not saying that you CAN'T hurt Snyder financially. Obviously, if you get enough people, you can. What I'm asking is what he can do to make all of the boycotters happy? Is there some sort of magic move he can make that will make people put down the torches?

People keep saying Snyder needs "organizational structure." But the problem with that is that it's hard to define...ask 100 people and you might get 100 different answers. And at the very end of the day, can't you see that ultimately it's Snyder calling the shots anyway? You want a GM? Who is going to hire him?

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What GM in his right mind would work for this team without something in his contract specifically stating that ownership will not interfere?

Thank you for being a voice of reason. And what would such a clause mean? Is Snyder not allowed inside meetings? The draft room? Is he not allowed to attend meetings with free agents, etc.?

People want change, but no one will define it for me.

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Thank you for being a voice of reason. And what would such a clause mean? Is Snyder not allowed inside meetings? The draft room? Is he not allowed to attend meetings with free agents, etc.?

People want change, but no one will define it for me.

Change is Snyder selling the team. The only way he does that is if the Redskins start to lose money

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i have something to add, maybe it has something to do with karma? because every week i do something good we win every week i do something bad ALL MY TEAMS LOSE? just saying sometimes it feels like the world revolves around me in a bad way, like the Day ST was shot i skipped school and did some bad stuff, not trying to make it about me, but every time i do something bad something bad happens to me:(

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Change is Snyder selling the team. The only way he does that is if the Redskins start to lose money

There you go....I'd be on board with that. If someone can convince me that the fans enough power to force Snyder to sell, I'd be all for it.

But it's not just dollars and cents...there is ego and hubris as well. No way Danny would simply sell his beloved Redskins if his profits dwindled....I think it would take much more than that.

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Not even my point really though. I believe that as long as people are talking about the Redskins (even if they are screaming and shouting and organizing boycotts) that it keeps the Redskins somewhat relevant-- it shows that deep down the fans really care.

I think the best message that could be sent is one of total and complete apathy...no spending, no discussing, no watching, nothing.

I truly think if you want to "send a message" to Snyder, the best way to do it is to 100% completely eliminate the Redskins from your life. Literally.

You willing to do that?

There's probably some truth to this. After all, I do think there's something to the old maxim that even negative publicity is valuable...or something like that. I mangled it, but you get the gist.

In any event, I'd argue that D.C. area fans have a somewhat unique way of being able to register apathy without actually giving up football. Many of them can simply chose to switch to that disgusting team up 95 north. :puke:

Now is that going to happen with most of us diehards? Probably not. However, there are some fans for whom the utter futility of the Redskins' situation and continuing disgust with Snyder would prompt at least a casual switch. I think a good example of this is that there are still a lot of black Cowpukes fans in D.C. today that absolutely hate the Redskins due to G. Preston Marshall's opposition to desgregation. Obviously that's a very different and way more serious issue, but I think it's a valid comparison in that then, as now, the core issue was an ownership at odds with the core values and goals of the fans.

I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to say the danger of fan erosion to the northern cancer is even greater among younger fans. After all, during the last say, 12 years when they would have been "growing into" love of a team, they've only known the Skins as a sad joke. These kids know nothing of the Ratbirds' raping of a great NFL city and the Maryland taxpayer. Instead, they only know them as the "other" DC/Baltimore NFL franchise. As such the Ratbirds probably seem like a much more attractive team to root for.

Again, it's all about the brand. Snyder has changed our brand from a team of misfits that symbolized excellence through hard work, determination and teamwork to just a bunch of guys mailing it in to collect a check for themselves and Snyder. We deserve better, much better. And if our protests fall on deaf ears and do no good whatsoever, at the very least we'll know that we stood up for the right thing in an effort to save something that was once wonderful and noble.

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"There are a lot of other sources for NFL money. NFL licensed jerseys, for example that Randy Moss jersey you put on your kid last Halloween when you dressed him up as a demon, result in license fees going to the NFL. This money is also equally shared."

That is where I got my info...license fees are equally shared.

You may be right about in-stadium sales... I'm not sure.

But you keep skipping over my main point/question.

I'm not saying that you CAN'T hurt Snyder financially. Obviously, if you get enough people, you can. What I'm asking is what he can do to make all of the boycotters happy? Is there some sort of magic move he can make that will make people put down the torches?

People keep saying Snyder needs "organizational structure." But the problem with that is that it's hard to define...ask 100 people and you might get 100 different answers. And at the very end of the day, can't you see that ultimately it's Snyder calling the shots anyway? You want a GM? Who is going to hire him?

Two little words would likely go a long way toward quelling the fanbase at the moment: Fire Vinny.

I don't think that makes all the problems with this organization go away magically over night, but the guy has become a symbol of everything the team does wrong - which is exactly what Snyder wants him to be. Remove him, and I think the fans will start to believe that actual change is possible. If Vinny stays, expect the Revolution to continue, no matter who comes in as coach. Right or wrong, that's the situation at the moment.

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Two little words would likely go a long way toward quelling the fanbase at the moment: Fire Vinny.

I don't think that makes all the problems with this organization go away magically over night' date=' but the guy has become a symbol of everything the team does wrong - which is exactly what Snyder wants him to be. Remove him, and I think the fans will start to believe that actual change is possible. If Vinny stays, expect the Revolution to continue, no matter who comes in as coach. Right or wrong, that's the situation at the moment.[/quote']

Fair enough---I agree that fans want some bloodletting right now, regardless of what it actually does to the franchise. If Vinny gets the boot, at least there would be some satisfaction for some folks.

For me, I want more than a head on a silver platter.

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There's probably some truth to this. After all, I do think there's something to the old maxim that even negative publicity is valuable...or something like that. I mangled it, but you get the gist.

In any event, I'd argue that D.C. area fans have a somewhat unique way of being able to register apathy without actually giving up football. Many of them can simply chose to switch to that disgusting team up 95 north. :puke:

Now is that going to happen with most of us diehards? Probably not. However, there are some fans for whom the utter futility of the Redskins' situation and continuing disgust with Snyder would prompt at least a casual switch. I think a good example of this is that there are still a lot of black Cowpukes fans in D.C. today that absolutely hate the Redskins due to G. Preston Marshall's opposition to desgregation. Obviously that's a very different and way more serious issue, but I think it's a valid comparison in that then, as now, the core issue was an ownership at odds with the core values and goals of the fans.

I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to say the danger of fan erosion to the northern cancer is even greater among younger fans. After all, during the last say, 12 years when they would have been "growing into" love of a team, they've only known the Skins as a sad joke. These kids know nothing of the Ratbirds' raping of a great NFL city and the Maryland taxpayer. Instead, they only know them as the "other" DC/Baltimore NFL franchise. As such the Ratbirds probably seem like a much more attractive team to root for.

Again, it's all about the brand. Snyder has changed our brand from a team of misfits that symbolized excellence through hard work, determination and teamwork to just a bunch of guys mailing it in to collect a check for themselves and Snyder. We deserve better, much better. And if our protests fall on deaf ears and do no good whatsoever, at the very least we'll know that we stood up for the right thing in an effort to save something that was once wonderful and noble.

I wouldn't qualify as a young fan, but I don't get your clear hatred for the Ravens. They seem to run that organization the right way. Our organization could certainly take some cues from them

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Two little words would likely go a long way toward quelling the fanbase at the moment: Fire Vinny.

I don't think that makes all the problems with this organization go away magically over night' date=' but the guy has become a symbol of everything the team does wrong - which is exactly what Snyder wants him to be. Remove him, and I think the fans will start to believe that actual change is possible. If Vinny stays, expect the Revolution to continue, no matter who comes in as coach. Right or wrong, that's the situation at the moment.[/quote']

Who's gonna print the t-shirts up? Black and white, no team colors.

FIRE VINNY

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I think that the team gets to keep ALL of the revenue (or most of it) from premium seats including Club.

This it true.

The Club, Loge and Suite ticket revenue goes directly to the team with no sharing with the rest of the league.

I have one more year left on my Club contract then I am DONE.

I have been a season ticket holder since 1987 and I have seen the ups and downs of this team since the 1960's and in my adult life I have never seen it this bad with the Redskins.

And I have a bad feeling it will be getting worse before it get's better.

Pez let me know what you have in mind. I am done with putting up with the same bull**** over and over...

I hear you, John.

I feel the same way and I have had it with this owner and management.

Dan has already got my money from my season tickets so not going to the games won't make much difference, but not buying beer and food in the stadium during the game is a good start in not lining Dan's pockets anymore.

As much as this pains me I won't be buying any beer at this Sunday's game and for the rest of the season.

If each fan restrains from buying anything in the stadium during the games for the rest of the season, it WILL have an effect on Dan's bottom line.

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Having said all this, I'd like to state that I personally have no issue with the revolts, paper bags, booing, etc... it's a free country and you can do what you want. If it helps you to cope, then go for it. But please stop telling me about what the fans "need to do" in order to demand change.

This is your reality Redskins fans. You have no control over it. Either accept it and hope for the best or quit it forever.

with all due respect...you are the one who doesn't get it. or, rather, you are looking at the world through your own rose colored glasses.

you have advanced a basic value proposition: I go to the games because all the peripheral stuff is fun...it has value to you. ok. I undertand that.

what you aren't willing to accept is that others have different value systems and approaches to life - among which excellence, performance, results matter. yours is not the only approach. yours is not the only relevant value system.

and I disagree on the fans lacking influence. empty seats - lots of empty seats - have influenced every sports franchise for time immemorial.

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You are flattering Danny with that comparison. Davis has won Super Bowls and is a HOF owner for his role in bringing the AFL prominance.

Hes also dilusional and likes to dress up as star wars characters:saber: when he fires head coaches. See lane kiffin.

Oh and he loves go routes, if he was HC that would be the only play he called.

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If Snyder fired Vinny, and hired a guy who's respected around the league as a front office guy. Then if Snyder flat out said "This guy has all control.....its his front office to run. He will choose the coaching staff and determine who stays and who goes. I will no longer have day to day business with the team"

That would go a LONG way.

Snyder only has on play left to make.

Its handing off day to day operations.

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Yes, I'd love to see Vinny out and a 'real' GM in. I don't think this will happen with Snyder in charge, so I would like to see him sell the team as well.

What I haven't seen in this thread is the "Other Option" that Danny has if local revenues start to drop - move the team.

The OP brings up the Arizona Cardinals and their 50 years of futility. Actually, they were the St. Louis Cardinals long before they were relocated to the desert. Same goes for Indy and the 'new' Cleveland Browns. Owners in this league have the REAL option of moving if they don't get what they want locally. As long as LA doesn't have a team, they will always be one option (just like DC was for years to baseball teams).

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Your post makes no sense...

You say that the only thing dumber than the Redskins FO is fans revolting. This means you think it is not SMART or does not make SENSE for fans to revolt. Yet your argument is your emotional devotion to the team regardless of players, coaches, even owners. That makes no sense. What does make sense is for someone to not want to pay money towards something that gives no reward. Its logical.

So why then do you question fans intelligence instead of their emotional commitment?

Makes no sense...

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