Offensive Line: Expect Campbell to get Trucked Soon

[NewCliche21]

I think the reason they don't pull Campbell now is they will lose all of these excuses they are clingging too about Jason Campbell if Collins comes in and rocks the house. If Collins comes in and does a poor job the people who claim Jason gives us a better chance to win are vindicated and shown proof they are correct in thinking that way. I want to know, am I right that Jason's garbage, or am I wrong and he's actually pretty good. Judge him by the play of his peers for a change instead of annointing him as if he's great and expecting him not to produce. Jason's not scored 20 points in how long? Jason as a starter is 4 wins with 9 losses over the last 13. That makes you untouchable? Pull Campbell at halftime and let us the fans see how Collins does. If you won't do that then your just inviting more speculation and questions and looking stupid.

This is silly.

They can both suck, you know? Campbell's a 7/10, Collins is a 6/10. Better does not mean good.

[Vooskin]

Thank you! You took the words right out of my mouth! History clearly shows that when Collins came in for JC we went on a roll. Its funny, cause the O-line looked horrible that year too. Then as soon as Collins stepped on the field, The whole offense looked better. But they will have an excuse for JC for that too. Uuuggh, Its making me sick to my stomach to see all these excuses for Campbell.

I'm quoting myself from another thread to prove your quote

"Portis had 306 yards rushing and 4 tds during the three game stretch collins started at the end of the season. Portis had 2 one hundred yard rushing games the whole season before campbell got injured in 07. Collins mad big plays and routine plays to keep drives alive. I won't argue the fact the team was playing for sean and that intensity affected it but you cant argue that after sean died we lost one game with campbell starting and had zero points in the second untill campbell got injured.

Collins comes in the second quarter of that game the redskins proceed to score 105 points over the next 3 and a half games. Averaging no less then 22 points a game. It's simply retarded how much people can't see the obvious. Campbell #1 is holding this team back. Zorn is #2 and Portis is #3 but We could win with a competent NFL QB even with this terrible Oline. Not playoff worthy but still play better and thats all that matters."

Game campbell got injured

Campbell 10/16 100 yards zero ints zero tds.

Collins 15/20 224 yards 2 tds 0 ints

[Vooskin]

This is silly.

They can both suck, you know? Campbell's a 7/10, Collins is a 6/10. Better does not mean good.

I think you are giving campbell too much credit. 7/10 is considered good.

[NewCliche21]

I think you are giving campbell too much credit. 7/10 is considered good.

Fine fine, but you get my point.

[Vooskin]

Fine fine, but you get my point.

[Botched]

Pull Campbell at halftime and let us the fans see how Collins does. If you won't do that then your just inviting more speculation and questions and looking stupid.

I totally agree. It worked wonders for McNabb last year. There is absolutely nothing to lose at this point, so why not?

It is unfathomable to me that a mediocre starting QB with a losing record, in his 5th year, not only has never had to compete for his job, but is also immune from benching.

[Vooskin]

I think Zorn is praying that Campell turns it around. He knows his and campbells fate is intertwined. Putting in collins no matter what signals he has failed at one of the things he was brought in to do. Collins even if he plays well this year won't be returning next year most likely and we will be starting from scratch next year. Zorn knows his only chance of staying is that campbell plays well enough to keep him there.

[Taylor4Life]

Just out of curiosity:

For those who think JC should be benched: if Colt weren't on IR, who would you prefer to start, CB or TC?

I think one of the big reasons that there are those who want to hold out on benching JC is the fact that starting TC won't bring any future benefits to the Skins beyond 2009.

I'm wondering if the "bench JC" chorus would be louder if there were a younger guy waiting in the wings.

[Botched]

Just out of curiosity:

For those who think JC should be benched: if Colt weren't on IR, who would you prefer to start, CB or TC?

I think one of the big reasons that there are those who want to hold out on benching JC is the fact that starting TC won't bring any future benefits to the Skins.

I'm wondering if the "bench JC" chorus would be louder if there were a younger guy waiting in the wings.

I would definitely rather have a younger guy starting, but since Colt and Chase are gone, I'd prefer Collins. It's likely that neither Collins or Campbell will be here next year, so I don't think future benefits really matter in this case. We need a spark now.

[NewCliche21]

Just out of curiosity:

For those who think JC should be benched: if Colt weren't on IR, who would you prefer to start, CB or TC?

I think one of the big reasons that there are those who want to hold out on benching JC is the fact that starting TC won't bring any future benefits to the Skins beyond 2009.

I'm wondering if the "bench JC" chorus would be louder if there were a younger guy waiting in the wings.

I hate the Cult more than anything else that happened to this board, but I'd be clamoring for Brennan right now just as I said all offseason that I would do if Campbell were stinking up the joint like he is at this point in the season.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Good. Then you can see how Collins wouldn't solve anything.

Because all the JC backers are experts at evaluating the QB position, if JC can't do it nobody can.

Backing JC as a legitimate QB truly shows the extent of one's football intellect.

[addicted]

This is silly.

They can both suck, you know? Campbell's a 7/10, Collins is a 6/10. Better does not mean good.

They could both suck sure. Then show me that. Campbell's lock on this job should have already been broken. 4 and 9 in his last 13, crappy play week after week after week. The man shouldn't be annointed the starter and the team needs to hold someone accountable. Jason's done more then enough to see this change coming. Show me I am wrong that Jason isn't the problem. I want to see it with my own eyes. The last time Collins took over for Jason he did a great job, and he's never been given a second chance, I say give the man the second half against the Chiefs and if he's terrible then put Jason back in. Why the hell haven't we done this yet? I think it's because the teams afraid of exposing Jason Campbell for the fraud he really is and looking dumb wasting all that money and picks on a garbage player. Jason is holding this team back and we will never win with him.

[NewCliche21]

They could both suck sure. Then show me that. Campbell's lock on this job should have already been broken. 4 and 9 in his last 13, crappy play week after week after week. The man shouldn't be annointed the starter and the team needs to hold someone accountable. Jason's done more then enough to see this change coming. Show me I am wrong that Jason isn't the problem. I want to see it with my own eyes. The last time Collins took over for Jason he did a great job, and he's never been given a second chance, I say give the man the second half against the Chiefs and if he's terrible then put Jason back in. Why the hell haven't we done this yet? I think it's because the teams afraid of exposing Jason Campbell for the fraud he really is and looking dumb wasting all that money and picks on a garbage player. Jason is holding this team back and we will never win with him.

Man, we're getting along and all, but you NEED to split up your posts. They're a chore to read.

The whole team is holding the team back. Campbell blows as hard as the rest of them.

[skins island connection]

You mean like this "uncatchable" pass that JC threw to Thomas that even the announcers said, "hit him right in the hands". And if caught could have changed the outcome of the game.

And, BTW, no one wants JC off this team any more than I do!

That was sickening to see, gee thanks for making me hurl again..lol..

The big picture is, how many times have you seen JC actually throw a very good ball like this; it had perfect height and loft, and distance; I have only seen 2, this one and the one to Moss last week.

If he could do this on a semi-constant basis, I don't think there would be so many people wanting him out. But he constantly overthrows receivers, throws a drifting ball that ends up out of bounds, throws with no loft,and that is when he even LOOKS to throw deep.

Yes this was a perfect pass, but it is very rare that we see this accuracy in him,..

[addicted]

Just out of curiosity:

For those who think JC should be benched: if Colt weren't on IR, who would you prefer to start, CB or TC?

I think one of the big reasons that there are those who want to hold out on benching JC is the fact that starting TC won't bring any future benefits to the Skins beyond 2009.

I'm wondering if the "bench JC" chorus would be louder if there were a younger guy waiting in the wings.

I'm loud about me wanting Jason benched so I will answer. Colt would be fine to start in front of Collins as long as we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. If we were then play Colt every single game. If we are not then you play Collins and go for the playoffs

[addicted]

Man, we're getting along and all, but you NEED to split up your posts. They're a chore to read.

Ok

The whole team is holding the team back. Campbell blows as hard as the rest of them.

I disagree and the reason I disagree is several..

1. When Campbell was hurt and Collins played the rest of the team did better, had better production, and had more impressive stats

2. Our RB had 1500 yards last year rushing. He had a monsterous first half then fell off when teams stopped being afraid of Jason and keyed on stopping him. This year the RB's not gotten going. Changing a QB now could make defenses respect the pass again, doing so will open the game up for our play makers. Our opposition shows us they won't respect Jason, so lets give them a QB they have to respect

3. Saying our problems are on the offensive line doesn't hold water when looking around the league. Sure our line sucks, is likely to give up 5 sacks a game but look at the production Green Bays having with a worse line then ours. Green Bay is still producing because they have a superior QB then we do. Better QB's over come bad lines just ask the Steelers last year

4. Saying our problems are with the recievers doesn't work either. Who the hell is Peire Garson, Steve Smith, Manningham, and the other scrubs that are catching the Mannings passes these days? Our receiving groups worse then these guys? Receivers improve with better QB play. Unknowns and late round picks become superstars over night with the right guys throwing them the ball.

5. Our Defense yesterday proved they can produce. They did everything short of scoring to help us win. They got sacks, INT's, fumble recoveries, batted balls down, and only gave up 20 points and we still lost. We should have won that game. We lost because the offense is terrible.

I think Jason because he plays QB blows a lot harder then the rest of the team but that's how it goes

[Skinz248]

Thanks Ghost...

Hey, I caught myself within like five seconds and bleeped it out because people are so politically correct. You can never ask questions or make points about race ever. I told everyone that I bleeped it and still get hammered. Hope you feel better Skinz after your lecture.

Wasn't directed towards you, but this is a Redskins board let's stick to the topic at hand. Didn't mean to come off that way.

[Hooper]

I totally agree. It worked wonders for McNabb last year. There is absolutely nothing to lose at this point, so why not?

It is unfathomable to me that a mediocre starting QB with a losing record, in his 5th year, not only has never had to compete for his job, but is also immune from benching.

Spot on, my friend.

Campbell has the job security of a Manning brother for some reason.

And it would be impossible for Collins to come in and do worse.

I just don't get it.

And I can't imagine a change not being made at some point. Bad line, bad receivers, whatever you think the problems are... you simply can't struggle to score more than ten points a game every week without eventually making a change just to shake things up.

Said it time and time again. No matter the coach or scheme, we have always struggled to score points with JC under center. I really, really like the guy -- I think we all do -- but if he had it, he would have shown it by now.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You mean like this "uncatchable" pass that JC threw to Thomas that even the announcers said, "hit him right in the hands". And if caught could have changed the outcome of the game.

And, BTW, no one wants JC off this team any more than I do!

see its garbage like this that is so sad. yeah, devin didnt get the ball, not a good play for him. but why is it that every week campbells status hinges on one dropped pass? you do realize that every single team drops passes every single week? were not gonna have a mistake free game ever, mistakes happen, good defenses will make you make mistakes.

you post one drop claiming it could have changed the game. every losing team in the league makes that same excuse every week. its loser talk.

[NewCliche21]

Ok

I disagree and the reason I disagree is several..

1. When Campbell was hurt and Collins played the rest of the team did better, had better production, and had more impressive stats

2. Our RB had 1500 yards last year rushing. He had a monsterous first half then fell off when teams stopped being afraid of Jason and keyed on stopping him. This year the RB's not gotten going. Changing a QB now could make defenses respect the pass again, doing so will open the game up for our play makers. Our opposition shows us they won't respect Jason, so lets give them a QB they have to respect

3. Saying our problems are on the offensive line doesn't hold water when looking around the league. Sure our line sucks, is likely to give up 5 sacks a game but look at the production Green Bays having with a worse line then ours. Green Bay is still producing because they have a superior QB then we do. Better QB's over come bad lines just ask the Steelers last year

4. Saying our problems are with the recievers doesn't work either. Who the hell is Peire Garson, Steve Smith, Manningham, and the other scrubs that are catching the Mannings passes these days? Our receiving groups worse then these guys? Receivers improve with better QB play. Unknowns and late round picks become superstars over night with the right guys throwing them the ball.

5. Our Defense yesterday proved they can produce. They did everything short of scoring to help us win. They got sacks, INT's, fumble recoveries, batted balls down, and only gave up 20 points and we still lost. We should have won that game. We lost because the offense is terrible.

I think Jason because he plays QB blows a lot harder then the rest of the team but that's how it goes

I'm literally saying that the entire team is awful. Picking what's worst on this team is picking who's poorest on welfare.

I don't know why the defense is getting a pass, either. Seventeen points against Carolina? Come on. That's just pathetic. They also gave up 194 yards and 14 points in TWO drives from the LIONS.

That's all that I'm saying.

[bengal224ord]

Your post is also implying that Todd Collins could not pick up this offense which I see no reason or proof to believe. You want proof that Collins can learn an offense? Go see 2007. Want some proof he can't learn this offense? Put him in the game and show me he can't. Want some proof that Campbell can master an offense? You won't find any unless you think Jason somehow masters Zorn's pathetic offense. Campbells never shown me he could master any offense in his entire career.

TC is a career backup but he's still a better QB then Jason Campbell and done something Campbell never will...Lead us into the playoffs and a winning record. Campbell will never do those things and should be put on the trash pile where he belongs.

First off, I'm not a Campbell fan. They both are in the same boat, just years apart (career backups). In fact, you comments are my exact thoughts, we would fair no better with TC. I looked in the mirror and said we suck as a team. Acceptance is the first step to recovery. No QB will get it done with our current line, so everyone needs to stop calling for a 38 year old to come and save the day. If TC were younger I would agree. To put him in will not put us in the playoffs, we have too many gaps in our game. If we sent TC in and he goes 8-3 we still will draft a QB. His age is a factor and that is reality...he is not the answer. Colt could be, but we have to wait.:saber:

[Mooka]

It's funny how this is JUST like 2007. I wish Mooka would go back and check to see how many anti-Snyder threads were started at the time, or maybe there were fewer because Gibbs was the head man. I don't remember.

Yea, 2007 was full swing with Gibbs in charge, so no one was talking about Snyder or Vinny. The FA disaster of 2006 was put on Gibbs and not the upper management. In 2007 we were all debating whether we were a couple plays from a terrible team or a couple plays/injuries from being a great team due to so many games being within one score.

Problem with the discussions about the direction of this team is that Sean was murdered at the down point of our season. So that halted any discussions for the future we would've been having. (seeing those threads again is heartbreaking) The playoff race also halted discussions for the future as we were all thinking playoffs.

As for the current debate.. well the consensus on the board at the end of 2007 was that Jason was the QB of the future and just needed more time. Basically, Redskin fans are EXTREMELY paranoid about being impatient. Many did not want to curb Campbell's development because a vet came in and won a few games. (i.e. Mark Brunell) People were calling for Collins in 2008, some flat out thought Todd was the better QB, many others put contingencies like only with a SB victory or a good performance in the playoffs. Most others didn't want Collins in 2008 under any circumstances, EVEN IF WE WON A SB. (and yes I mean MOST)

The JC/TC discussions are exactly the same. Hell, they were exactly the same last season too. Me and you Ghost were talking about this in 2008 how we were having the same conversations in 2007.

From day 1 people have envisioned Jason as the franchise QB of this team for years to come. So benching him or replacing him makes no sense to them, its just a setback. They are stuck in a fantasy that Jason will develop into something more then he is now.

I should start a thread to give people some food for thought.

[prufRock]

I think the OPs point about having to complete the season without either Collins or Campbell is sound. I'm not saying either guy is a saviour but I think we have to recognize just how ugly things can get when you get someone back there that has no business wearing an NFL uniform. It's unwatchable. Kind of like the last stages of the Spurrier years.

[Incognito-01]

Well! Who knows that might not be so bad ... if that's the only way to get JC to the bench.

We need to see what Todd Collins, and Andre Woodson can or cannot do. Helps us decide what we need to go after in the draft and which round.

[Ghost of]

I should start a thread to give people some food for thought.

You probably should, not that I want to overburden you with work.

I remember now about those people who thought Todd shouldn't get the job no matter what. How idiotic do you have to be, in light of the success of Rich Gannon and to a lesser degree Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham in their later careers to completely reject the idea of holding on to an older QB who just did well for you? Who cares about the other guy if he wasn't already the truth anyway (meaning, if JC had us at 9-2, then got hurt, you have another story.)

It's sad but you would think that us discussing these same issues in many of the same ways would be a signal that maybe the problem is simpler than we think and that if we just friggin acknowledged it, we'd move forward 2-3 steps as a franchise.