Offensive Line: Expect Campbell to get Trucked Soon

[NewCliche21]

Uhhhhh, you guys discussing race really need to stop.

I can't tell you how bad you look.

[bengal224ord]

Or he will show that Jason's the piece of crap I think he is. No one knows how Collins will improve or hurt the offense until you give the guy a chance. The last time he was given an opportunity he completely changed our teams future and did great. Campbells been sucking since his first chance and never ever gotten better. I'm more inclined to believe your horribly wrong about Collins sucking then you think your right. History and Zorn's inability to not do a damn thing as Offensive cordinator is what I'm leaning on, what are you baising your belief on?

Your post seems to imply that during TC's nice playoff run he picked up the offense without issues that year...understanding the system was the main reason. TC cannot handle pressure (See Seattle Playoff Game), once again...there is a reason TC is a career backup.:cool2:

[Ghost of]

The funny thing is, though jason is mobile he's not the Randall/Vick type of mobile QB. Of course, Randall wasn't the best pocket QB but he could throw the ____ out of the ball and threw a beautiful ball, he just had a long windup. But it was more fluid than Jason's by far and he was a more fluid and confident athlete.

The difficulty, I think, is that there was some initial hesitation in calling Jason "dumb" or "Football dumb" because of some connotations people may infer from it. The fact is, you can be bright as all hell like Finance/Accounting major Patrick Ramsey but if you can't process the field and what you're seeing very well, you won't be a successful QB. Eventually, people started ignoring that academic background and calling Ramsey stupid not because they believed he was actually dumb but because of his football processing capacity.

[Vooskin]

Uhhhhh, you guys discussing race really need to stop.

I can't tell you how bad you look.

We know it looks bad and it's never perceived well but just so you know, telling us to not say something plays directly into alot of the problems plaguing america today. The racial spin is also is no negative in this case. The only people who see a problem are the ones that want to.

[Warpath11]

The difficulty, I think, is that there was some initial hesitation in calling Jason "dumb" or "Football dumb" because of some connotations people may infer from it. The fact is, you can be bright as all hell like Finance/Accounting major Patrick Ramsey but if you can't process the field and what you're seeing very well, you won't be a successful QB. Eventually, people started ignoring that academic background and calling Ramsey stupid not because they believed he was actually dumb but because of his football processing capacity.

Another example is Ryan Fitzpatric the Harvard grad that got a pefrect score on the Wonderlic Test. He is as smart as they come yet at best he was/is a career backup. Though in his case, mybe the total lack to physical talent is just too great to overcome with his brains. The point is valid, in the regard that, he is a genious but his "football processing" is still not to par.

As far as teh topic of the offensive line, look for us this week to be VANILLA since Campbell will not attmept but a handful of 5 to 7 step drops (and we know how well he does those 3-step drops /facepalm)

[Ghost of]

Uhhhhh, you guys discussing race really need to stop.

I can't tell you how bad you look.

Hardly, Vooskins made a point about how it doesn't matter to him and Reaganaut was asking a question. Ultimately, it's not going to move the discussion forward but God knows we've seen these questions and insinuations from the other side. People only backed off after repeated failed attempts to discuss it.

We know who the main perps were, too.

Eventually, it will make one wonder if there is some projection going on with some people for whatever specific reason.

Did it make those posters who brought it up several times look bad too, or is that OK?

EDIT: to give a wider perspective, I also mentioned youth, limited experience watching football, etc. Is it Ok to discuss the ages of the participants or their particular biases for/against certain players/subjects?

[Ghost of]

Another example is Ryan Fitzpatric the Harvard grad that got a pefrect score on the Wonderlic Test.

Bingo. When someone says someone is slow or dumb in a football context, that's not the same as calling them an imbecile. They may or may not be average, above average, just slightly below average---it's irrelevant to the physical and mental coordination required.

I think some people took offense to that at an earlier point but now people are just sick of watching JC play and thus they're not holding back with those comments nearly as much. And they don't mean anything sinister by them, I remember plenty of comments about Ramsey that were similar.

[Taylor4Life]

I think youth is also an explanation, both from ignorance and a neglect of recent history (2007) with these exact same debates...

I also see this debate as being broken down among age groups. I've noticed that most of the diehard JC guys are under 25, while the "haters" are mostly 30+.

So... are we 30+ers just getting old and cranky or do we just expect more having lived through at least part of the glory years?

[NewCliche21]

Hardly, Vooskins made a point about how it doesn't matter to him and Reaganaut was asking a question. Ultimately, it's not going to move the discussion forward but God knows we've seen these questions and insinuations from the other side. People only backed off after repeated failed attempts to discuss it.

We know who the main perps were, too.

Eventually, it will make one wonder if there is some projection going on with some people for whatever specific reason.

Did it make those posters who brought it up several times look bad too, or is that OK?

It makes EVERYONE who brings it up look bad. It shouldn't be discussed because it's irrelevant and just, well, a bad idea to talk about.

[Vooskin]

The funny thing is, though jason is mobile he's not the Randall/Vick type of mobile QB. Of course, Randall wasn't the best pocket QB but he could throw the ____ out of the ball and threw a beautiful ball, he just had a long windup. But it was more fluid than Jason's by far and he was a more fluid and confident athlete.

The difficulty, I think, is that there was some initial hesitation in calling Jason "dumb" or "Football dumb" because of some connotations people may infer from it. The fact is, you can be bright as all hell like Finance/Accounting major Patrick Ramsey but if you can't process the field and what you're seeing very well, you won't be a successful QB. Eventually, people started ignoring that academic background and calling Ramsey stupid not because they believed he was actually dumb but because of his football processing capacity.

Yah I don't even consider Campbell a mobile qb, he doesnt move well in the pocket and the times he doesn he already has given up going down field. He is good enough to run for a first down when the middle is wide open but too often does he get sacked trying to break out of the pocket. Campbell is a passing qb, he typically looks downfield the problem is he is not a good passing qb, he is not good at what he wants to do. You don't need to be a genius to be a good qb. You just need to be able to quickly process the information and get rid of the ball quickly, being accurate helps. Campbell doesnt do these well nor does he have good pocket presence. He is just not a good qb. Sure if he has time like in college he can make throws but so can almost ANY qb drafted.

[Ghost of]

It makes EVERYONE who brings it up look bad. It shouldn't be discussed because it's irrelevant and just, well, a bad idea to talk about.

That sounds a lot better to me.

So, basically, should a team totally lose all hope because of an injury to LT? I don't think so. I also don't see why people think LTs grow on trees or that 'depth' is any worse than it is for most other teams in the league. If you mean letting your starters get to a certain age, fine--but the Ravens did that too. Why not give them one more year as this 'generation' of the Redskins offensive line seems to be falling away?

I'm one of those strange optimists who doesn't think our team is too terrible and that if we solved a couple of major off leadership questions-we could solve much of the team's apparent woes. Others seem more invested in "blwing it up."

Didn't people say the same in 2006 when we were so bad? I guess Campbell being young gave us some hope...but...I don't know. I don't think the problem is strictly the FO, other than trying to make something out of Jason (and this affecting their hiring decision) rather than letting Jason make his own mark in a way that fits with the overall spirit of the team.

2007 should have been the beginning of a real family feeling with our team.

[Vooskin]

I also see this debate as being broken down among age groups. I've noticed that most of the diehard JC guys are under 25, while the "haters" are mostly 30+.

So... are we 30+ers just getting old and cranky or do we just expect more having lived through at least part of the glory years?

Disagree with that, maybe under 19 but thats because JC has been here for almost 5 years. To me the age is not very relevant for JC more so what distinguishes who merely watches versus who actually dissects the game. People with better understanding of football typically argue against campbell and people who just see that campbell had pressure or the announcer said something and they agreed with it are the ones that more then likely support the man. Lots of people also support him for their own agenda. Some people support him because other people hate whether from their own fanbase or from other teams. Some people just like to be different even though for awhile us "haters" were the different.

*I do agree with experience playing a role. My understanding of life over the past 3 years changed so much from the previous 3 before that and when I am your age I know my outlook will most likely be totally different. I also understand the under 25 crowd typically has more hope because everything in life is still attainable but I would not go to a conclusion on just that. I see plenty... plenty of 30 and 40 year old people supporting campbell. Outlook of life plays a major roll, being a hopeful person your are more likely to hang on longer then someone who has experienced the ups and downs of life. At 24 I'm tired of the bs and I'm not willing to give JC another day of my time. We only live but so long and I want to watch good football while I still can.

[NewCliche21]

That sounds a lot better to me.

So, basically, should a team totally lose all hope because of an injury to LT? I don't think so. I also don't see why people think LTs grow on trees or that 'depth' is any worse than it is for most other teams in the league. If you mean letting your starters get to a certain age, fine--but the Ravens did that too. Why not give them one more year as this 'generation' of the Redskins offensive line seems to be falling away?

I'm one of those strange optimists who doesn't think our team is too terrible and that if we solved a couple of major off leadership questions-we could solve much of the team's apparent woes. Others seem more invested in "blwing it up."

Didn't people say the same in 2006 when we were so bad? I guess Campbell being young gave us some hope...but...I don't know. I don't think the problem is strictly the FO, other than trying to make something out of Jason (and this affecting their hiring decision) rather than letting Jason make his own mark in a way that fits with the overall spirit of the team.

2007 should have been the beginning of a real family feeling with our team.

Samuels has a couple of years left in him. 2006? Yeah, I was giving Campbell a long leash due to his age. However, it's not just those two things that have me already trying to think of clever facebook statuses for Monday the 19th (right now it's ". . . is winning the NFC East draft pick race."). It's the entirety of the situation, the years of it, the broken hearts and broken promises. It's EVERYTHING.

I don't expect to win anymore and I dread Sundays as much as I used to look forward to them. All that I can do is watch "The Fix II" to remind me of something positive and then realize that it's all gone.

It's not a lack of Samuels or the presence of Campbell; it's the whole as opposed to the sum of its broken parts.

[addicted]

Your post seems to imply that during TC's nice playoff run he picked up the offense without issues that year...understanding the system was the main reason. TC cannot handle pressure (See Seattle Playoff Game), once again...there is a reason TC is a career backup.:cool2:

Your post is also implying that Todd Collins could not pick up this offense which I see no reason or proof to believe. You want proof that Collins can learn an offense? Go see 2007. Want some proof he can't learn this offense? Put him in the game and show me he can't. Want some proof that Campbell can master an offense? You won't find any unless you think Jason somehow masters Zorn's pathetic offense. Campbells never shown me he could master any offense in his entire career.

TC is a career backup but he's still a better QB then Jason Campbell and done something Campbell never will...Lead us into the playoffs and a winning record. Campbell will never do those things and should be put on the trash pile where he belongs.

[Reaganaut]

Keep that race crap out of here guys. You are better than that.

Thanks Ghost...

Hey, I caught myself within like five seconds and bleeped it out because people are so politically correct. You can never ask questions or make points about race ever. I told everyone that I bleeped it and still get hammered. Hope you feel better Skinz after your lecture.

[pilsburypgh]

Or he will show that Jason's the piece of crap I think he is. No one knows how Collins will improve or hurt the offense until you give the guy a chance. The last time he was given an opportunity he completely changed our teams future and did great. Campbells been sucking since his first chance and never ever gotten better. I'm more inclined to believe your horribly wrong about Collins sucking then you think your right. History and Zorn's inability to not do a damn thing as Offensive cordinator is what I'm leaning on, what are you baising your belief on?

Thank you! You took the words right out of my mouth! History clearly shows that when Collins came in for JC we went on a roll. Its funny, cause the O-line looked horrible that year too. Then as soon as Collins stepped on the field, The whole offense looked better. But they will have an excuse for JC for that too. Uuuggh, Its making me sick to my stomach to see all these excuses for Campbell.

[Taylor4Life]

Disagree with that, maybe under 19 but thats because JC has been here for almost 5 years...

I'm talking generalities here, brother. Sure, there are exceptions, but I'm just relating what I've noticed throughout this debate: which is that there does seem to be an age gap among the haters vs. supporters. I'm not sure what the implications are, if any.

[redskins55]

Campbell is already getting killed back there

[Reaganaut]

It makes EVERYONE who brings it up look bad. It shouldn't be discussed because it's irrelevant and just, well, a bad idea to talk about.

Thanks for the lecture. You saw that I bleeped myself and that I already said it was a bad idea, yet you jump in with the lecture... gee thanks.

[NewCliche21]

Thanks for the lecture. You saw that I bleeped myself and that I already said it was a bad idea, yet you jump in with the lecture... gee thanks.

My one sentence is a lecture?

All that I said was that it's a bad topic to bring up. I wasn't even responding to one of your posts. Calm down.

[Vooskin]

Before the game was over I finally stated the season is over. That is big for me. This team has the ability to win but only if certain changes are made. To me it is simple. Campbell needs to be benched, portis needed to be benched, zorn as play caller needs to be benched. With this line it is possible to win, wont be easy and not always pretty but teams have done more with less. We tend to forget that no team in the league is afraid of campbell beating us in the short or deep game so they play for pressure and bump n run. If you can't out scheme the same thing every week and your qb can't make the throws ontime to beat it then they arent good enough. Portis is done and I am willing to bet marcus mason would go for close to a hundred yesterday.

[Santana_89]

You notice how most of the Chase people were anti-Colt and most of them were pro-Campbell.

Just like the anti-Collins people are almost exclusively (with the exception of peeps like Buford who think everything is so bad with the org that no one will make a difference---was he here in 2007 when people said the same thing? I thought he was...) pro-campbell.

Basically, the entire team gets bashed and derided and rooted AGAINST for the sake of Campbell. What a strange way to be a REDSKIN fan.

:applause: Well said Ghost.

I think we have seen more than enough of Jason Campbell and it's rather insulting to me that some would deflect blame on the coaches( Gibbs,Saunders now Zorn), then the receivers (you still can't tell me JC isn't a medicore qb if after 3+ years he still has NO RHYTHM with Santana Moss) It certainly didn't take Todd Collins very long to be comfortable with Santana. Then we get the O line excuse as has been metioned until yesterday he had pretty decent protection and still looked ****ty at best. So now when we actually have 2 major injuries on the O line, the whole season will be because of the O line.

But Zorn wouldn't look like the genius;) he is, if he put Collins in and he outplays Campbell. Seems to me Zorn should be trying to salvage the rest of the season by shaking it up what do you have to lose????

To answer the op statement then Jason Campbell better lace up them Nikes and start running like Clinton Portis.

[NewCliche21]

Before the game was over I finally stated the season is over. That is big for me. This team has the ability to win but only if certain changes are made. To me it is simple. Campbell needs to be benched, portis needed to be benched, zorn as play caller needs to be benched. With this line it is possible to win, wont be easy and not always pretty but teams have done more with less. We tend to forget that no team in the league is afraid of campbell beating us in the short or deep game so they play for pressure and bump n run. If you can't out scheme the same thing every week and your qb can't make the throws ontime to beat it then they arent good enough. Portis is done and I am willing to bet marcus mason would go for close to a hundred yesterday.

I agree with most, but not all of this.

The season is done. Nobody can win with this line.

[santana_4_prez]

lol, man i cant get it right!

"Saints September 7: LB Stanley Arnoux signed/draft choice; WR Adrian Arrington added to practice squad; G Tim Duckworth added to practice squad; CB Danny Gorrer added to practice squad; RB P.J. Hill added to practice squad; DE Jermey Parnell added to practice squad; DT DeMario Pressley added to practice squad; WR Matt Simon added to practice squad; QB Chase Daniel added to practice squad; LB Stanley Arnoux granted roster exemption"

thats the last addition to his player page on espn. i wonder why it never mentioned he was promoted to the active roster.

Looks like he got at least one more game day check then your boy Colt...and this is more recent than your quote.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5170

Sept. 26 - Saints signed QB Chase Daniel off their practice squad.

He'll be the emergency quarterback on Sunday. Lance Moore is normally the No. 3 quarterback, but he is out with a hamstring injury.

[addicted]

Thank you! You took the words right out of my mouth! History clearly shows that when Collins came in for JC we went on a roll. Its funny, cause the O-line looked horrible that year too. Then as soon as Collins stepped on the field, The whole offense looked better. But they will have an excuse for JC for that too. Uuuggh, Its making me sick to my stomach to see all these excuses for Campbell.

I think the reason they don't pull Campbell now is they will lose all of these excuses they are clingging too about Jason Campbell if Collins comes in and rocks the house. If Collins comes in and does a poor job the people who claim Jason gives us a better chance to win are vindicated and shown proof they are correct in thinking that way. I want to know, am I right that Jason's garbage, or am I wrong and he's actually pretty good. Judge him by the play of his peers for a change instead of annointing him as if he's great and expecting him not to produce. Jason's not scored 20 points in how long? Jason as a starter is 4 wins with 9 losses over the last 13. That makes you untouchable? Pull Campbell at halftime and let us the fans see how Collins does. If you won't do that then your just inviting more speculation and questions and looking stupid.