Are the fans and the owner against the Redskins rebuilding?

[IrepDC]

I keep reading how Snyder has ruined this franchise in all these threads. Then I turn around and read the same people talk about blowing the team up and getting all new coaches and players. My question is whether you all really have the patience to rebuild? Part of becoming elite is going through a few bad seasons, building up your roster through the draft, and maintaining some sort of stability in the staff.

For the past few seasons we have done just enough to get by. Everyone wants to blame Snyder for all his moves but really he's just doing what all of you ask for. Everytime we lose a few games this fan base goes insane and Snyder starts itching to make a change to shut all of you up. Whether it's signing a new player or coach. We all complain about his knee jerk moves but we all consistently protest for them to be made.

Right now we have Zorn who is an inexperienced coach. He makes a lot of dumb decisions. But he's learning. He's trying different things. And he will only get better. Maybe we should fire him and any other coach after things get bumpy, or maybe we could try rallying around a coach and the players we have, for once. Wouldn't you all like to have our OWN Cowher, or Shanahan, or Fischer? Those coaches came from ownerships and fan bases that stayed loyal over years, good and bad times.

People have to realize that we aren't as good as we want to think we are. We aren't as bad as we played the past week but we aren't on the same level as those elite teams. To get on that level things are going to have to get worse before they get better. Maybe we end up with higher draft picks the next year. Maybe we suffer a few more embarrasing losses. But let the nucleus of the team stay steady and build around it.

That means we support Zorn and the players we have. Don't urge Snyder to make another knee jerk move because believe it or not I think he reacts to the fans. If we put it out there that we want consistency and we want Zorn to be given more time Snyder will listen. The only issue is whether we all are truly patient enough to let this team rebuild.

If we end up firing our coach and trading half our draft for a QB we'll only have ourselves to blame. The one strategy we HAVEN'T tried is NOT making any moves. Please let's have some patience and act like we have some vision towards the future. If the team is going to be bad then so be it. Let them rebuild.

[The_Godfather]

Spending $150 million on 2 defensive players is not rebuilding.

[SkinsHokieFan]

The fanbase would accept rebuilding if it was a true re-build, done correctly, with a team that drafts players, has a GM and team structure in place and an apparent plan

[wvuskinsfan]

Part of becoming elite is going through a few bad seasons, building up your roster through the draft, and maintaining some sort of stability in the staff.

When do we ever draft well, drafting in the top 15 and not picking until round 4 isnt a draft at all.

[IrepDC]

The fanbase would accept rebuilding if it was a true re-build, done correctly, with a team that drafts players, has a GM and team structure in place and an apparent plan

But the fans don't ask for a "true rebuild". All everyone wants is to bench this player or fire this coach. We are not one player away. We are not one former coach away. Cerrato gets a lot of crap but he has been drafting fairly well the past few years. We are building a young group of players to build around. It's the knee jerk reactions from the fans to always let those players go before they develop.

[Chrispy4545]

I agree, I really don't see this fan base having the patience to rebuild. But if I were owner/GM I would do what I could for the team if I knew that it would one day make them great.

If Snyder came out today and said he's going to rebuild this team around our young players (Horton, Landry, Kelly, Mitchell, etc.) then I would be all for it. I am so tired of being mediocre that I would gladly stomach a losing season or two for a great team.

[IrepDC]

When do we ever draft well, drafting in the top 15 and not picking until round 4 isnt a draft at all.

Last year we had something like 10 picks and we're still waiting on those players to grow. But even with those guys you already hear our own fan base proclaiming they are busts before this season even started. This environment is not one where a player OR coach can develop. We have a bunch of Dan Snyders running around talking trash about the real Dan Syder.

[SkinsMaster88]

Honestly, this is why someone like Dan Snyder shouldn't be in charge of the football decisions on the team. We need someone to understand the long-term implications of running a football franchise and developing young talent. Snyder's mentality is always win-now. The fans' mentality is always Super Bowl or bust. We need a more rational football GM to manage the team and truly go through a rebuilding phase and become a continual contender after time.

Fans never want to actually go through rebuilding, but we've seen what 1-2 year stretches of trying to get one last guy or coach can do. It hasn't worked.

[IrepDC]

Spending $150 million on 2 defensive players is not rebuilding.

Moves like that I blame on the fanbase though, because we think we are one player away so our owner goes out and gets that one big player. That's why in the OP I'm saying us fans need to shut up and rally behind what we have and stop screaming for outside help. Let the young players we have grow. Let Zorn learn and build a staff around himself(he was given this one). And if we need help let it come from us developing draft picks, all while keeping in mind draft picks aren't always going to be instant stars.

[IrepDC]

Honestly, this is why someone like Dan Snyder shouldn't be in charge of the football decisions on the team. We need someone to understand the long-term implications of running a football franchise and developing young talent. Snyder's mentality is always win-now. The fans' mentality is always Super Bowl or bust. We need a more rational football GM to manage the team and truly go through a rebuilding phase and become a continual contender after time.

Fans never want to actually go through rebuilding, but we've seen what 1-2 year stretches of trying to get one last guy or coach can do. It hasn't worked.

But since we can't choose our owner why can't we educate each other to at least be a positive influence on the owner? When I watched the news and post game show it was us fans sending in the emails, and messages, and on camera calling for the knee jerk moves to be made. We can't complain when he does these things because we sit idle and watch other fans call for it.

[SkinsMaster88]

Your points are valid, but I would say almost every team's fanbase wants that stud guy in free agency. Big name guys create excitement about the team and hence, generate more revenue.

In the 2008 draft, I was stoked about the young talent that could develop with Thomas, Davis, and Kelly. We've needed new weapons besides Moss and Cooley forever.

I was absolutely thrilled about the possibilities of our defense when we somehow were able to get Haynesworth and Orakpo. Keeping Hall from his great short time at the end of 2008 allowed us to have good secondary depth as well.

Guess what, the product has not shown up on the field. You have to make the right decisions, not the popular decisions.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Moves like that I blame on the fanbase though, because we think we are one player away so our owner goes out and gets that one big player. That's why in the OP I'm saying us fans need to shut up and rally behind what we have and stop screaming for outside help. Let the young players we have grow. Let Zorn learn and build a staff around himself(he was given this one). And if we need help let it come from us developing draft picks, all while keeping in mind draft picks aren't always going to be instant stars.

Somehow, this is all my fault?

Please.

The Redskins are not a football team; they are a marketing strategy.

[Mr. Grundle]

But the fans don't ask for a "true rebuild". All everyone wants is to bench this player or fire this coach. We are not one player away. We are not one former coach away. Cerrato gets a lot of crap but he has been drafting fairly well the past few years. We are building a young group of players to build around. It's the knee jerk reactions from the fans to always let those players go before they develop.

I'm asking for a true rebuild if Snyder will truly hand over the keys to a real football person. I'll go through years of sucking if we start doing things right. Drafting right, spending right, everything needs to be handed over to a real football person. I begged for it before this season started when it was obvious this was going to be the biggest disaster of season for Snyder to date.

And change the f'ing team name while were at it. Appease the native americans and let start over with a clean slate at the same time.

[IrepDC]

Your points are valid, but I would say almost every team's fanbase wants that stud guy in free agency. Big name guys create excitement about the team and hence, generate more revenue.

In the 2008 draft, I was stoked about the young talent that could develop with Thomas, Davis, and Kelly. We've needed new weapons besides Moss and Cooley forever.

I was absolutely thrilled about the possibilities of our defense when we somehow were able to get Haynesworth and Orakpo. Keeping Hall from his great short time at the end of 2008 allowed us to have good secondary depth as well.

Guess what, the product has not shown up on the field. You have to make the right decisions, not the popular decisions.

I agree with everything you're saying here, and if Snyder was a good owner he'd realize this. But we all know he's a business man. And we all know we're in a unique situation where; if we scream loud enough for change, he will make a change. I'm suggesting we scream just as loud for stability for once. Right now all people are doing is encouraging him to do the same thing he's done since he's been owner. Then when it doesn't work they'll be booing him again.

[LD0506]

Yes it is OUR fault that TheDan is clue-resistant and stubbornly trying to convince anyone available that he can run a franchise.

Glad we got that cleared up.

[roy182]

I understand your even keel and I somewhat admire it, but ignoring the obvious is delusional.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=301574

[IrepDC]

I'm asking for a true rebuild if Snyder will truly hand over the keys to a real football person. I'll go through years of sucking if we start doing things right. Drafting right, spending right, everything needs to be handed over to a real football person. I begged for it before this season started when it was obvious this was going to be the biggest disaster of season for Snyder to date.

And change the f'ing team name while were at it. Appease the native americans and let start over with a clean slate at the same time.

But we have already begun the process of rebuilding. There have been mistakes along the way but that is expected. We need to stick with this group we have now and learn together. We always call for someone that's always established. Vinny is learning. We have all our draft picks this year and he's found guys like Horton and Marko late. Zorn is learning. He looks dumb as hell out there sometimes but he modifies his coaching every single week trying to improve. Clearly they're not near best at what they do but with the right environment they could grow and become that. Calling for Snyder to blow everything up would just be hitting the "reset" button on the building process.

[Fred Jones]

The fanbase would accept rebuilding if it was a true re-build, done correctly, with a team that drafts players, has a GM and team structure in place and an apparent plan

Yes, and add owner that keeps his nose out of their business and changes his attitude.

[IrepDC]

Yes it is OUR fault that TheDan is clue-resistant and stubbornly trying to convince anyone available that he can run a franchise.

Glad we got that cleared up.

This right here is a microcosm of our fan base. Instead of being open minded to another opinion you make a sarcastic over simplified statement of what I'm saying. What's your point?

[Veretax]

If we lose to Tampa, blow it the heck up!... I can suffer 4 years of knowing we will be down, if it pays off in year 5

[IrepDC]

I understand your even keel and I somewhat admire it, but ignoring the obvious is delusional.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=301574

Trust me I'm not ignoring the obvious. I elluded to my feelings about this team when I said that we aren't as good as we think we are. But there's no need to point out the negatives in my opinion. They are obvious to any objective person. My point is this situation can become a positive 2 or 3 years down the road, or it could become another version of the same sad story from the past ten years.

[DCsportsfan53]

Were they to hire a real GM, allow him to hire a coach, jettison all the old veterans (Samuels, Rabach, Griff, Daniels, Portis, Campbell, ect) for as many draft picks as possible, draft a QB and surround him with a young, drafted OL you bet your ass I'd be down for the growing pains.

What I cannot stand for anymore and cannot contribute another dime of my money towards is constant offseason band aids to make a Super Bowl run that just ends in continued mediocrity.

[IrepDC]

If we lose to Tampa, blow it the heck up!... I can suffer 4 years of knowing we will be down, if it pays off in year 5

Blowing it up is what we always do though. That's the problem. We're too lazy to actually go through and pick out the weak links and build upon them, so we just blow everything up and hope someone comes in and makes a miracle. Stick with Zorn. Watch his progress closely. Stick with the players that we can build around. Continue to draft well. Bring in young lineman. It doesn't have to be an explosion every time. Let the change come gradually not suddenly.

[LD0506]

This right here is a microcosm of our fan base. Instead of being open minded to another opinion you make a sarcastic over simplified statement of what I'm saying. What's your point?

My point is that we the fans don't have one goddam thing to do with it! We don't get to make any decisions, recruit any players or get scammed by any of their agents. By doing yet another one of your "Disney duckies and bunnies dancing on the lawn" Pollyanna-ish delusional posting acts, trying yet again to explain away what Stevie Wonder could see in the dark- THIS IS NOT AN ORGANIZATION, IT IS DAN SNYDER'S PERSONAL TOY. Period.

Unless and until someone is hired that actually knows something about building/rebuilding/maintaining a professional football team, is given absolute authority to institute needed changes and is left alone to do so, you will get continuous replays of yesterday's historic ****ing the bed performance.

Is that simple enough?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Blowing it up is what we always do though. That's the problem. We're too lazy to actually go through and pick out the weak links and build upon them, so we just blow everything up and hope someone comes in and makes a miracle. Stick with Zorn. Watch his progress closely. Stick with the players that we can build around. Continue to draft well. Bring in young lineman. It doesn't have to be an explosion every time. Let the change come gradually not suddenly.

Is Zorn going to get better? He's 57 years old.