IrepDC Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Were they to hire a real GM, allow him to hire a coach, jettison all the old veterans (Samuels, Rabach, Griff, Daniels, Portis, Campbell, ect) for as many draft picks as possible, draft a QB and surround him with a young, drafted OL you bet your ass I'd be down for the growing pains. What I cannot stand for anymore and cannot contribute another dime of my money towards is constant offseason band aids to make a Super Bowl run that just ends in continued mediocrity. I agree and think most fans do. The problem is that people expect everything in paragraph one to happen in one offseason, which leads to paragraph 2. Two or three years ago we were bringing in the young skill positions. Last year we brung in the DL. This year we bring in the OL. Continue to build all while closely watching how these coaches are developing as well. In my opinion Blache isn't getting the full potential out o f his players, nor is Zorn at the moment, but Blache isn't open to improving. Therefor he isn't improving or helping his players to improve. I think our WR and OL coaches also may need to be upgraded. There are changes to be made but they need to be made over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 But we have already begun the process of rebuilding. There have been mistakes along the way but that is expected. We need to stick with this group we have now and learn together. We always call for someone that's always established. Vinny is learning. We have all our draft picks this year and he's found guys like Horton and Marko late. Zorn is learning. He looks dumb as hell out there sometimes but he modifies his coaching every single week trying to improve. Clearly they're not near best at what they do but with the right environment they could grow and become that. Calling for Snyder to blow everything up would just be hitting the "reset" button on the building process. uhm 2010 3rd rd went for Jarmon, I think we have a 5th or 6th gone for the JT trade too :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Is Zorn going to get better? He's 57 years old. Well if you look past his age yes I think he is. Just look at this season for example. I have never seen a coach so quick to acknowledge his mistakes and work to correct them the next game. The Giants game he was too predictable. Running on every first down. Next two games he switched it up and now calls a variety of plays on 1st down. Giants game he stuck with the run to long when it wasn't working. Next game he used the pass to set up the rune and the next game he tried to do the same. Listen I'm not saying he's a great coach right now I'm saying let him become one. No coach starts out knowing everything. It's trial by fire. Zorn seems pretty responsive to the fire in only his second season as a HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Walton Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 If I stare at a turd for a year, it will not turn into a twinkie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I would not be against a true re-building situations (really how much are a few 4-12 seasons different than 7-9 or 8-8??). Having said that if Dan Snyder does such a thing he may loose a lot of money out of pocket as some in the fanbase will be pissed after a few season of 3 or 4 wins. Dan likes his money so that may never be an option for us we will always be a player or two away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Walton Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Well if you look past his age yes I think he is. Just look at this season for example. I have never seen a coach so quick to acknowledge his mistakes and work to correct them the next game. The Giants game he was too predictable. Running on every first down. Next two games he switched it up and now calls a variety of plays on 1st down. Giants game he stuck with the run to long when it wasn't working. Next game he used the pass to set up the rune and the next game he tried to do the same. Listen I'm not saying he's a great coach right now I'm saying let him become one. No coach starts out knowing everything. It's trial by fire. Zorn seems pretty responsive to the fire in only his second season as a HC. First off, there are plenty of coaches w/ no HC experience doing just fine in the NFL. Secondly, why do we need to wait till he learns how to coach at the highest level? I can understand the sentiment if he was in charge of the highschool JV team but an NFL football team? Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 honestly, I would just be happy with firing Vinny and bringing in a real football GM. (one that makes the football decisions and keeps Danny out of things) That would be the biggest and most necessary change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 My point is that we the fans don't have one goddam thing to do with it! We don't get to make any decisions, recruit any players or get scammed by any of their agents. By doing yet another one of your "Disney duckies and bunnies dancing on the lawn" Pollyanna-ish delusional posting acts, trying yet again to explain away what Stevie Wonder could see in the dark- THIS IS NOT AN ORGANIZATION, IT IS DAN SNYDER'S PERSONAL TOY. Period. Unless and until someone is hired that actually knows something about building/rebuilding/maintaining a professional football team, is given absolute authority to institute needed changes and is left alone to do so, you will get continuous replays of yesterday's historic ****ing the bed performance. Is that simple enough? Calm down and reread the OP. Nothing like a Disney act. More like a level headed opinion about trying something different. I'm not saying our ownership has been right. I'm actually saying the opposite. My specific point is that the fans are not helping the situation at all because what we ask for is usually what we get. If you don't think the fans have an effect on Snyder that's your opinion but history says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 First off, there are plenty of coaches w/ no HC experience doing just fine in the NFL. Secondly, why do we need to wait till he learns how to coach at the highest level? I can understand the sentiment if he was in charge of the highschool JV team but an NFL football team? Please. Why not wait? We've already tried to hire the big name coaches who were already established. It's not like we have a Super Bowl roster that is a coach away from winning it all. Now IS the time to groom our own coach because we are still grooming our roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 But that's part of the problem, a genuine football GM wouldn't give a rat's ass what the fans said from week to week BECAUSE he would know they are windsocks, it's just the way things are. TheDan still trying to pretend he knows what he's doing and isn't destroying what was once a proud franchise only makes things worse. Rearrange the deckchairs all you want, have the band play different tunes but until that gaping hole below the waterline is addressed the results will be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corn_beef_n_rice Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 seems like the team is reloading, not rebuilding. the ny yankees are about show you can actually win a championship by reloading even though i'm second guessing myself we should keep zorn and keep the same system in place rather than blowing up the the entire org i don't think we're too far off, if we could just score a TD, then everything would be almost gravy but blache needs to change his defensive scheme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 I would not be against a true re-building situations (really how much are a few 4-12 seasons different than 7-9 or 8-8??). Having said that if Dan Snyder does such a thing he may loose a lot of money out of pocket as some in the fanbase will be pissed after a few season of 3 or 4 wins. Dan likes his money so that may never be an option for us we will always be a player or two away... And that is the predicament right there. Our owner wants to win but he wants money above anything. If the only time our fanbase is loyal is when they "think" we're a contender than he's gonna do what he has to do to keep fooling us. Whether that's bringing in some big name coach or signing some big name player. We all will complain afterwards, when it doesn't work, but we won't support a team that is building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 But that's part of the problem, a genuine football GM wouldn't give a rat's ass what the fans said from week to week BECAUSE he would know they are windsocks, it's just the way things are. TheDan still trying to pretend he knows what he's doing and isn't destroying what was once a proud franchise only makes things worse. Rearrange the deckchairs all you want, have the band play different tunes but until that gaping hole below the waterline is addressed the results will be the same. You are 100% correct and if we could just educate our fanbase more we could have a positive impact on Snyder, because like it or not we're stuck with him for now. There are other fan bases who stay loyal even through bad times and right now we need to be one of them. If not Snyder will do something crazy again to get everyone's attention back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 And that is the predicament right there. Our owner wants to win but he wants money above anything. If the only time our fanbase is loyal is when they "think" we're a contender than he's gonna do what he has to do to keep fooling us. Whether that's bringing in some big name coach or signing some big name player. We all will complain afterwards, when it doesn't work, but we won't support a team that is building. To Dan Snyder 150 million to two players is a drop in the bucket for getting over $15 million/game from 92,000 delusional fans. /sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 To Dan Snyder 150 million to two players is a drop in the bucket for getting over $15 million/game from 92,000 delusional fans. /sigh But hey we can't complain because those are the types of moves the majority of us respond to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phixius Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 This team doesn't rebuild at all. You can't just hire a Jim Zorn and don't give him anything to work with. Cerrato not addressing the OL has really hurt this team. Landry has a ego where he only cares about laying someone out and rather than regrouping with the defense, he's all up in the other teams face running his mouth. Signing DeAngelo Hall was a big mistake. I wasn't too pleased with this move from the first place and knew it was going to blow up in Snyder's face. Albert can't play a down without injuring himself. Carlos hasn't shown much progress in the last two years. The team just trades draft picks with an mentality that they want players that have proven themselves. These veterans just want a paycheck and they know Snyder is dumb enough to give them what they want so they can just moped around all season long. This team is poorly run. The Redskins are still stuck with Vinny and Snyder too naive and stubborn to realize how Cerrato and his involvement is ruining the team. It's been 10 years. If it's not working now, it never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofMcboof Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 IrepDC, you need to stop. You're stereotyping and most us have a longer history of following football and the Redskins than you have. Just because you know a couple NFL players doesn't mean you have any more of a handle of winning or building an organization then we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins n' Bones Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I would not be against a true re-building situations (really how much are a few 4-12 seasons different than 7-9 or 8-8??). Having said that if Dan Snyder does such a thing he may loose a lot of money out of pocket as some in the fanbase will be pissed after a few season of 3 or 4 wins. Dan likes his money so that may never be an option for us we will always be a player or two away... There never is a true rebuilding anymore in the NFL. Teams are so close that they can go from a last place losing team one year and deep into the playoffs the next. Just a few games can make the difference between the two. But with that said, I agree wholeheartedly with the OP and have been saying the same thing. The most important thing the Redskins ownership and fanbase need to use right now is patience! And to the people that say Snyder needs to hire a "football guy" or a "real GM", Matt Millen was a real GM that was a football guy...how'd Detroit do with that the past few years?? It's not that simple. What sucks living in MD is that the ****ing Ravens seem to have it right and I get reminded of it every day....so if they do replace Vinny, they should do it with whomever is second in command to Newsome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 IRepDC You seem to think what we are doing now is "building a team" Signing a 100 million dollar d-tackle is not building a team Having a coach come in and put in a passing system that does not fit his QB is not building a team Having the oldest roster in the NFL is not building a team Having no depth is not building a team Have no identity is not building a team The team needs to be blown up, from Team President/GM all the way down to the water boy to change the culture, establish an identity and bring in young players who can be molded Right now, none of that exists. You have a mediocre team that will at best go 8-8 again this year and is not improving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 But hey we can't complain because those are the types of moves the majority of us respond to Bull****! During the glory years, the Skins had, like, three #1 picks in total. We never begged for a quick fix to anything. We were willing to wait for young QBs to develop on IR. We understood that there was a plan and it would work. Snyder is the one who started this "The future is yesterday!" nonsense. Maybe we got sucked into it but don't act like this is something we ever demanded. Just because you grew up during the Snyder Era, don't think that this is the way it has always been. And it's not like we had a stable owner back then either. The man was 106 and was doing cocaine off the naked asses of Colombian hookers. But he knew when to back off and let his GM be a GM and let his coach coach. And he never let the hookers onto the field before the game to bother his coach. But for some reason, Tom Cruise can reccomend a double reverse pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Bull****!During the glory years' date=' the Skins had, like, three #1 picks in total. We never begged for a quick fix to anything. We were willing to wait for young QBs to develop on IR. We understood that there was a plan and it would work. Snyder is the one who started this "The future is yesterday!" nonsense. Maybe we got sucked into it but don't act like this is something we ever demanded. Just because you grew up during the Snyder Era, don't think that this is the way it has always been.[/quote'] I don't think any of the fans have ever demanded the team be run like this. Honestly, its clear IRepDC doesn't have a clue what he is talking about with this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Oh blow it out of your.... lol If we felt like the proper moves were made and they were building towards something the right way I'd take the growing pains...that isn't happening here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins n' Bones Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 IrepDC, you need to stop. You're stereotyping and most us have a longer history of following football and the Redskins than you have. Just because you know a couple NFL players doesn't mean you have any more of a handle of winning or building an organization then we do. Well, I'm older and I agree with him. It's a matter of showing a little patience and the organization not making any rash decisions like they have in the past. Are we gonna get frustrated and mad when they play like they did yesterday? Heck yeah!! But let's wait and see how Zorn does at least this full season if not another one before passing judgement. Hey, in the old days, coaches were usually given at least a couple years to learn and prove themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I don't think any of the fans have ever demanded the team be run like this.Honestly, its clear IRepDC doesn't have a clue what he is talking about with this thread I will freely admit that I bought into the 2000 Redskins in a big big way - and I say this as someone who LOVED the 1999 Redskins. So, yea, Snyder suckered me early on. We seemed like a good team that he was going to make invincible. It took me three months to figure out what a fool I was. I've never asked that we keep trying to make that approach work. I want us run like the Steelers or Ravens who seem to have an endless supply of young talented players. And - unlike them - I want Snyder to use his money only when Plan A is not working. If you go two years and don't have a good young RB yet, then sign a free agent to a reasonable deal. Mainly, I want him to use his money to reward the studs that have won for him in the past. I want to find the next Joe Flacco and then pay him Peyton Manning money after four years because we can. That's how you build a locker room that will kill for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Well' date=' I'm older and I agree with him. It's a matter of showing a little patience and the organization not making any rash decisions like they have in the past. Are we gonna get frustrated and mad when they play like they did yesterday? Heck yeah!! But let's wait and see how Zorn does at least this full season if not another one before passing judgement. Hey, in the old days, coaches were usually given at least a couple years to learn and prove themselves...[/quote']I knew after a month that Richie Pettibone was a mistake. I knew after 20 games that Spurrier would never "get it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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